The Witch of Endor (Witchcraft, wizards, or those that use divination)

[Hobie]

The Witch of Endor story in the bible has some wondering if this is allowed by God and the implications. Here is a good study by David Curtis on this issue..

1 Samuel 28:14

"And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself"

This spiritual séance has been cited as evidence for life after death. But here are points to the contrary:

1. Wizards had been sentenced to death and banned from the land (1 Samuel 28:3; Leviticus 20:27).

2. God had departed from Saul and would not communicate with him (1 Samuel 28:15).

3. Samuel was supposedly "brought up." Other expressions used in this passage include: "ascending out of the earth," "cometh up," and "bring ... up." (verses 13-15). Is this where the righteous dead are--down in the earth? Not according to those who believe in the immortal soul.

4. Samuel is described as an old man covered with a mantle. Is this the way immortal souls appear? And where did the soul get the body? They're supposed to be disembodied. Was there a resurrection? Did God obey the beck and call of the witch and raise up Samuel? If not, can Satan raise the dead?

5. The apparition of Samuel told Saul, "Tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me." 1 Samuel 28:19. Saul committed suicide on the battlefield the next day. Where did Samuel dwell, if the wicked Saul was to go to the same place?

6. The Bible never says that Saul saw Samuel. He received his information secondhand from the witch, and only concluded it was Samuel from her description. The truth is that the devil deceived the dissolute old woman, and she deceived Saul. It was nothing more than a devil-generated séance.

7. The enormity of Saul's sin is revealed in these words: "So Saul died for his transgression ... and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14..

[daizy]

1Sa 28:11  Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."

I noticed an interesting text in Job that would link directly to this passage I think.

Job 7:9  As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

According to Job it was impossible for Samuel to come up from the grave.

[Hobie]

Very good post..

[mandalee65]

Interesting... I have puzzled over this passage for years, but never made the connection with "you and your sons shall be with me."

[Hobie]

Well the spirit claiming to be Samuel was pretending to be raised from the dead..

[current occupant]

Please explain how this is different than the experience of Ellen White following the advice of James White through his appearance to her after her death.

[Hobie]

Please explain how this is different than the experience of Ellen White following the advice of James White through his appearance to her after her death.

My brother, I dont think you should go about making up this type of falsehood, especially if you call yourself a Christian.

[larry2]

Satan does not know prophesy that I know of. Saul and his sons were both dead and with Samuel the next day as told him in 1 Samuel 28:19. Did God cause this scene? I do not know but since it is scripture, I would think so.

1 Samuel 28:19  Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. This was not only prophesy, but it was true prophesy.
 
Where were Saul and his sons after they died? In Abraham's boson, or paradise where all the righteous went until Jesus was resurrected and carried paradise to heaven.

1 Samuel 10:1   Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his (Saul) head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance? 

Though Saul was no longer the leader, and God and had anointed David, David still recognized Saul as God's anointed in 1 Samuel 24:6  And he (David) said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD'S anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD. Throughout 1 & 2 Samuel David refers to Saul as God's anointed, thus the reason Samuel would join him in Abraham' bosom.

To me it appears Saul had eternal life as God's anointed.

My thoughts in Jesus' name - larry2

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

My first thought is...

Why did Saul go out to the battle when he had been told he would be defeated and him and his sons killed?