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Author Topic: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support  (Read 5143 times)

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Offline Michael G

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Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 11:30:39 »
Word “Hell

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Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 11:30:39 »

Offline stevehut

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #1 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 11:51:21 »
Michael, why is this important?

All I really care about is, I don't want to go any of those places.

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #1 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 11:51:21 »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #2 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:15:34 »
Does Hell burn forever?

we must accept what the Bible says above the opinions of men. 

That said, this subject requires close examination for some texts appear contradictory.

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus Christ warned that unsaved sinners will enter “the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #3 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:26:43 »


The Bible DOES NOT contradict itself.

These are only APPARENT contradictions.

The solution is to examine what the whole Bible says about the fate of the lost, discover its overall teaching, and then to closely analyze the difficult verses until you understand them correctly.

Once you do, you will find that everything fits and makes perfect sense and that God is NOT an unmerciful tyrant that tortures the lost forever.

First we will look at a breakdown of all the relevant verses and passages and conclude with a summary.

Hell Fire Is Real

Matthew 13:42 Jesus Christ said the LOST will finally be cast “INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE.

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #3 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:26:43 »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #4 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:35:48 »
Where Did The Doctrine Of Eternal Burning Originate?

Genesis 3:4 The doctrine of souls burning forever is rooted in the idea that “THE SOUL CAN’T DIE.

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #4 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:35:48 »



Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #5 on: Tue Aug 03, 2010 - 12:51:08 »
Michael, why is this important?

All I really care about is, I don't want to go any of those places.

Why I am posting this Topic about Hell,

because a Member here on this Forum posted what SDA believe about Hell,  

this post will make it very clear to All who want to know the truth about what SDA believe about the topic Hell

Inquiring minds may want to know,

sorry,  it is subject you desire not to know about,

the Subject is brought up in the Bible many times ,

do like to read the bible?


Please take note, the Anti SDA  member also quoted what SDA believe about,
1. Immortality of the soul
2. Who is Michael the archangel
3. Trinity

so I will also be posting on these Topics ...

Just to let you know before you open the Topic

« Last Edit: Wed Aug 11, 2010 - 20:23:28 by Michael G »

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #6 on: Mon Nov 29, 2010 - 20:23:38 »
Michael, why is this important?

All I really care about is, I don't want to go any of those places.

Why I am posting this Topic about Hell,

because a Member here on this Forum posted what SDA believe about Hell,  

this post will make it very clear to All who want to know the truth about what SDA believe about the topic Hell

Inquiring minds may want to know,

sorry,  it is subject you desire not to know about,

the Subject is brought up in the Bible many times ,

do like to read the bible?


Please take note, the Anti SDA  member also quoted what SDA believe about,
1. Immortality of the soul
2. Who is Michael the archangel
3. Trinity

so I will also be posting on these Topics ...

Just to let you know before you open the Topic



The statements bolded are both pejorative and ad hominem.  They are also self-righteous.  So, when someone who knows SDA doctrine is false comes right out and says so, you have to flood the board with 4 or 5 threads full of pages and pages of stuff you have cut and pasted off of an SDA website?  Is your doctrine so rickety that it needs people like you and dj going around plugging holes in the dike?  I don't have to do that with my doctrine, and I don't have to go to a website to get me a truck load of proof texts, I just go to the Bible and see what it actually says, in context and according to correct and accurate exegesis.

Pages and pages of verses about hell, and hades don't do much to support SDA doctrine on the subject and they don't do much to support it when they are taken out of context.  The tactic appears to be posting so much stuff that no one is going to wade through it to arrive at the real truth.  You don't wait for a response to your flood gate of proof texts and you never answer questions when they are posed to you, you just flood the board with more cut & pastes.

The first place we see that our spiritual existance is everlasting either in heaven, or hell is actually found in Daniel 12:

Daniel 12:1-2  "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book-- will be delivered.  2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Sleeping in the dust of the earth speaks of physical death.  We know this because of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke:

Luke 16:19-31   19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.  20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores  21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.  22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.  23 In hell, {23 Greek Hades} where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.  24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'  25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.  26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'  27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,  28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'  29 "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'  30 "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'  31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Lazarus goes to Abraham's Bosom or Paradise and the rich man goes to Hades.  Both these places are not places of permanence they are places where the redeemed (Paradise) and unredeemed (Hades) go until they come to their final judgement.  The thief on the cross went with Jesus to Paradise after His death.  These redeemed could not enter heaven on the strength of animal sacrifices or until Jesus' sacrifice had paid for their sins.  Paradise is now empty and the redeemed dead are in heaven with Christ.  The unredeemed are still in Hades awaiting the end-time judgement. 

Both Lazarus and the rich man are aware, the rich man is speaking, thinking, and he is in constant torment so there is no such thing as soul sleep in Hades.

Hell is everlasting:

Matthew 25:41-46   41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,  43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'  44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'  45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'  46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Eternal punishment or eternal life.  It's not very heard to understand.  Hell was not originally created for mankind but for Satan and his fallen angels, but those who do not accept Jesus will go to hell, and they will remain there forever.  Hell does not have anyone in it yet and will not have until the White Throne judgement.

The redeemed are 'judged' at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom:

Revelation 20:1-6  And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.  2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.  3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.  4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.  6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The un-redeemed dead are not judged until after the Millennial Kingdom:

Revelation 20:7-15  7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison  8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth-- Gog and Magog-- to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.  9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.  10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.  12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.  13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.  14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.  15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

It does not take pages and pages of single verses taken out of context, or re-working the meaning of greek words to fit one's personal doctrine to arrive at the truth, just a simple reading of the scriptures.

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #7 on: Mon Nov 29, 2010 - 21:17:14 »
What I have posted comes from my own personal notes from studying the topic, the Post I made was a clear explanation of the Topic using scripture to explain scripture, I don't use comments by others if I have not studied it thoroughly,,  and so what if I use other comments by others to make the point of the topic, if its right and presented in an easy way so that the ignorant may understand ,

by the way who scripture is it anyway,

 most of the time I don’t use comments from SDA or EGW because some people have a prejudice mind, so I may use other comments made by the persons own sources or own church doctrines first when I can, it makes no difference to me right is right no matter where it comes from as long as it is line with all scripture  …
  
I post many scriptures in the beginning of the topic to get the scripture out there so they will not be diluted in the other posts by others, in hope they will be used to eventually to fill the holes in the sinking ship doctrines floating in the world...
 
What I have posted can be checked for accuracy.. it is very plain and easy to understand .. unlike other blinding color comments with no reasoning of how they interpreted those scriptures the way they do,
 
Let the reader read the scriptures of what I have posted in this Forum, 95% of what I have posted are scriptures only ,

Most of what I copy and paste in many of the topics is from my own computer bible using the KJV NKJV or Good NEWS Bible for easy understanding  , I do Highlight the important words that  I am using so that the reader may see clearly in all the verses that they agree with each other in wording on the topic heading.
 
I notice that people who make posts spewing out a hatred remark toward a religious denomination, shows insecurity in scripture knowledge, … Seems to me they use the denomination issue to focus the mind off the scripture as a smoke screen because of their own frustration with being unable to get it up…. or explain how they came to what they believe by using scriptures….seems to me their agenda is to argue their points using other popular denominations  errors  as smoke screen to their own ignorance of scriptures….

By the way I was not raised SDA or reading EGW,
« Last Edit: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 09:31:51 by Michael G »

Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 00:08:08 »
I look at it like this.  Cain killed Able.  So, we can assume that Cain will not be in heaven.  If their is a burning hell now, then he has been there for 6,000 or so years.  Fast forward to Hitler.  He killed how many?  Millions is all I know.  Hitler will burn 6,000 years less that Cain?  That is not a just God.  That is not a God of love.  I believe that when you die, it is like a sleep.  Jesus said that your reward is with Him according to your works.  Either you will spend eternity with Him, or you will be destroyed.  Not burning forever and ever, but the effects of the fire will be forever.  God is saying that He will destroy the sinful and they will be no more.  How would you feel if someone you loved lived throughout eternity burning?  I don't know about you but that wouldn't be heaven for me.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #9 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 10:04:53 »

I notice that people who make posts spewing out a hatred remark toward a religious denomination, shows insecurity in scripture knowledge, … Seems to me they use the denomination issue to focus the mind off the scripture as a smoke screen because of their own frustration with being unable to get it up…. or explain how they came to what they believe by using scriptures….seems to me their agenda is to argue their points using other popular denominations  errors  as smoke screen to their own ignorance of scriptures….

By the way I was not raised SDA or reading EGW,


No.  It is not a "hatred remark" to tell you that your doctrine is false.  It is false.  It is not biblically-based and it is not earning you any brownie points in heaven.  You chain yourself to a doctrine that does you no good and actually holds you in a bondage of your own making.  You are sitting in a jail cell.  The govenor called and gave you a pardon but you are so acclimated to your surroundings that you won't leave your cell.

You don't know whether anyone you are talking to is "scripturally insecure" or not.  I'm certainly not, I simply know bad doctrine when I see it and I recognize sloppy handling of the Word of God when I see it.  You don't know what denomination I am as I've never mentioned it, and I have used no denomination except your own, so your whole paragraph above is like a pie crust.  It's real flaky around the edges.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #10 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 10:12:52 »
I look at it like this.  Cain killed Able.  So, we can assume that Cain will not be in heaven.  If their is a burning hell now, then he has been there for 6,000 or so years.  Fast forward to Hitler.  He killed how many?  Millions is all I know.  Hitler will burn 6,000 years less that Cain?  That is not a just God.  That is not a God of love.  I believe that when you die, it is like a sleep.  Jesus said that your reward is with Him according to your works.  Either you will spend eternity with Him, or you will be destroyed.  Not burning forever and ever, but the effects of the fire will be forever.  God is saying that He will destroy the sinful and they will be no more.  How would you feel if someone you loved lived throughout eternity burning?  I don't know about you but that wouldn't be heaven for me.

What you are saying then, is that God is not just, and that God lies.  No one is in Hell right now.  The unredeemed are in Hades awaiting judgement.  Hell and Hades are not the same thing anymore than Paradise and Heaven are the same thing.  God does not say He will destroy the sinful, He says they will go to a place of eternal torment.  If you are destroyed, there can be no torment.

The fact is, if God were a "God of love" the way you use the term, He would simply let everyone into heaven no matter what they have or haven't done, and whether or not they accepted Jesus or not.  Why not just become a Univeralist?  Yes, God is a God of love.  He is also a just God.  He has standards that one must live up to, and that standard is accepting Christ as one's Savior.  That earns one eternal life.  Conversely, there must be an opposite consequence if one does not accept Christ.  That opposite consequence is eternal torment.  The Bible says so.  You are trying to explain away what the Bible clearly says by basing your conclusions on flawed subjective human reasoning.

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #11 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 10:49:54 »
The Choice in the Garden was "Life" or "Death" in the end not Eternal Torment throughout ceaseless ages..

The TREE of LIFE will be in the PARDISE of GOD,
The tree of Life is not in "Hell, Hades" the Grave or in “Hell Gehenna
« Last Edit: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 11:09:59 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #12 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 11:24:44 »
What you are saying then, is that God is not just, and that God lies.  No one is in Hell right now.  The unredeemed are in Hades awaiting judgement.  Hell and Hades are not the same thing anymore than Paradise and Heaven are the same thing.  God does not say He will destroy the sinful, He says they will go to a place of eternal torment.  If you are destroyed, there can be no torment.

“Hades,

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #13 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 15:43:26 »
What you are saying then, is that God is not just, and that God lies.  No one is in Hell right now.  The unredeemed are in Hades awaiting judgement.  Hell and Hades are not the same thing anymore than Paradise and Heaven are the same thing.  God does not say He will destroy the sinful, He says they will go to a place of eternal torment.  If you are destroyed, there can be no torment.

“Hades,

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #14 on: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 23:34:15 »

Cobalt1959
If they are asleep, then please explain the parable of Lazarus and the rich man found in Luke 16.
[/quote]



The Parable was and is teahing The lesson , that the rich man, who is a symbol of God’s people who have the truth that are not sharing their food with the poor, the lost, they may find that in the Judgment the poor are saved and the rich are lost.  We have a responsibility to share the Gospel.  Just like Jesus was telling His Jewish brethren that if you do not share it with the Gentiles, you might find that many come from the East and the West and sit down in the Kingdom with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and you will be cast out and the Gentiles will be in.

For the church today, it’s the same message.  If we are building walls around our church and saying, ‘We’re saved because we’re Christians and we’re going to study our Bibles together and forget the lost of the world’ in the Judgment we might find out we really didn’t love our brother.  We’ve been hoarding our food so to speak, while they’ve been starving for the crumbs of the Gospel.

Everyone misses the real message in this parable.  It has nothing to do with what happens when you die, or hell.  any way Jesus uses the word Hades = Grave ,
« Last Edit: Tue Nov 30, 2010 - 23:43:30 by Michael G »

Offline revmitchell

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #15 on: Wed Dec 01, 2010 - 01:10:14 »

Cobalt1959
If they are asleep, then please explain the parable of Lazarus and the rich man found in Luke 16.



The Parable was and is teahing The lesson , that the rich man, who is a symbol of God’s people who have the truth that are not sharing their food with the poor, the lost, they may find that in the Judgment the poor are saved and the rich are lost.  We have a responsibility to share the Gospel.  Just like Jesus was telling His Jewish brethren that if you do not share it with the Gentiles, you might find that many come from the East and the West and sit down in the Kingdom with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and you will be cast out and the Gentiles will be in.

For the church today, it’s the same message.  If we are building walls around our church and saying, ‘We’re saved because we’re Christians and we’re going to study our Bibles together and forget the lost of the world’ in the Judgment we might find out we really didn’t love our brother.  We’ve been hoarding our food so to speak, while they’ve been starving for the crumbs of the Gospel.

Everyone misses the real message in this parable.  It has nothing to do with what happens when you die, or hell.  any way Jesus uses the word Hades = Grave ,

[/quote]


Silly......the "real" message of that parable is pointing to the idea that the Pharisees thought because they had a life of comfort they were approved of God. Jesus was making the point that your status in life is not evidence of your spiritual condition.

Offline Michael G

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Re: Truth about Hell fire Scripture Support
« Reply #16 on: Thu Dec 02, 2010 - 20:10:21 »
The point is many think the parable of Lazarus and the rich man found in Luke 16 is talking Hell Fire and it is not,,
[/quote]




 

     
anything