Author Topic: Is infant baptism from the Bible?  (Read 1527 times)

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Offline Hobie

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Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« on: Sat Apr 04, 2009 - 17:36:18 »
One could ask what is wrong with baptising an infant? To this question the enquirer would have to be directed to the word of God and to the requirements for baptism.

Baptism is for those that hear the Gospel message, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and repent of their sins. This must be done before a person can be baptised.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38.

"Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21.

Why do we need to repent to God?

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23.

Only those that receive the Word of God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are fit for baptism.

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15, 16.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12.

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36, 37.

The question must now be asked,‘Can an infant understand the Gospel, accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and repent of their sins?’ Of course they cannot, so therefore according to the Bible they cannot be baptised and any church that condones infant baptism is not following the Word of God.

Offline Hehealedme

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Apr 04, 2009 - 17:39:04 »
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« Last Edit: Mon Dec 08, 2014 - 09:00:05 by Hehealedme »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Apr 05, 2009 - 19:46:43 »
::amen!::

Gods truth is all there in His word, we just have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding..

Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jul 24, 2019 - 05:46:36 »
Now here is a good explanation as to why baptize means full immersion:

"Strangely, the word 'baptize' is the original Greek word.  The reason we use the original Greek word rather than our own English words 'submerge' or 'immerse' is because at the time that the King James Bible was being translated, shortly before 1611, a fierce debate was raging about how baptism should be done. 

Some felt that it should be by sprinkling with water on the head and that it should be done to babies.  Others argued that it should be done only with those who are old enough to believe and decide to be baptised for themselves, and that it should be done by full immersion in water. 

Rather than offend either group the translators of the King James Bible chose simply to use the original Greek word 'baptizein' as a transliteration.  They just Anglicised the very Greek word itself, to create the word 'baptise' without translating it at all.  Then it was up to every man to give it whatever meaning that he believed it had.  That was how the King James translators chose to get themselves out of a very tight corner.

There ought not to be any controversy over what the Greek word 'baptizein' means.  Its meaning is totally clear and beyond any doubt."....http://www.realchristianity.com/become_christian/baptism_in_water/baptism_full_immersion.html

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jul 26, 2019 - 08:10:07 »
Gods truth is all there in His word, we just have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding..

But when God's Holy Spirit does not guide you to understanding then the only alternative is that the understanding of "it"  is not meant for you.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you , your free will never will understand.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you, you are not of God's sovereign choice being guided to understanding.




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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jul 26, 2019 - 08:10:07 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jul 26, 2019 - 10:23:16 »
But when God's Holy Spirit does not guide you to understanding then the only alternative is that the understanding of "it"  is not meant for you.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you , your free will never will understand.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you, you are not of God's sovereign choice being guided to understanding.
Ninety nine, plus, percent of the Holy Spirit's guidance is God's written word.  A standard joke is that when you are putting something together and it isn't going well, then read the instructions.  And if that didn't work, follow the instructions.

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jul 30, 2019 - 18:13:20 »
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« Last Edit: Tue Jul 30, 2019 - 19:24:02 by seekingHiswisdom »

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jul 30, 2019 - 18:24:31 »
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« Last Edit: Tue Jul 30, 2019 - 19:24:36 by seekingHiswisdom »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Jul 31, 2019 - 04:08:11 »
But when God's Holy Spirit does not guide you to understanding then the only alternative is that the understanding of "it"  is not meant for you.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you , your free will never will understand.

When God's Holy Spirit does not guide you, you are not of God's sovereign choice being guided to understanding.
That is why we have Gods Word.

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #9 on: Wed Jul 31, 2019 - 18:46:53 »
That is why we have Gods Word.

But I read things in His word, and you read things in His word and we do not always see the same thing.

You have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to enable you to understanding.

It is alleged ( by other members)  that I do not, therefore I have to be wrong and incapable of clearly understanding.

But no one has yet to explain why those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them often disagrees with each other on certain points.

You said quite a while ago.

Posted by: Hobie
« on: Sun Apr 05, 2009 - 19:46:43 »
Quote
  Gods truth is all there in His word, we just have to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding..   

Since there is still disagreement on points within the Holy word among Spirit filled people

I ask....

Does the Holy Spirit play favorites?






Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Aug 01, 2019 - 07:05:19 »
But I read things in His word, and you read things in His word and we do not always see the same thing.

You have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to enable you to understanding.

It is alleged ( by other members)  that I do not, therefore I have to be wrong and incapable of clearly understanding.

But no one has yet to explain why those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them often disagrees with each other on certain points.

You said quite a while ago.

Posted by: Hobie
« on: Sun Apr 05, 2009 - 19:46:43 »
Since there is still disagreement on points within the Holy word among Spirit filled people

I ask....

Does the Holy Spirit play favorites?
No, but you have to pray and ask for its guidance especially in understanding of truth

Offline RB

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Aug 01, 2019 - 08:11:03 »
It is alleged ( by other members)  that I do not, therefore I have to be wrong and incapable of clearly understanding.
If you are indeed: seekingHiswisdom, then you are a child of God. All you have to do is this:
Quote from: The wise man
Ninety nine, plus, percent of the Holy Spirit's guidance is God's written word.  A standard joke is that when you are putting something together and it isn't going well, then read the instructions.
And then you shall know the truth and that truth shall indeed set you FREE from the doctrines of men. Amen~all glory be to God. 


Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Aug 01, 2019 - 11:34:30 »
No, but you have to pray and ask for its guidance especially in understanding of truth

You cannot go there.

Every single person that posts on GC, and those who used to but are gone, believes they understood the truth of what they read.

Most all have posted scripture from time to time in support of their positions of belief yet often resulted in a free for all of disagreement on what was being read, based on the context of that scripture.

How many of those posters have prayed for understanding I have no idea but it has been less than a handful that claimed to pray for understanding that I ever read on here since originally joining GC 5 or 6 years ago.

Look at the myriad of threads that came about on simple disagreement of why you need to be baptised.

And you people, who have participated in those are absolutely certain, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are correct and the other is wrong.

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I am not baptised in the sense that others here are. I believe I am the only one like this. I am not going to rehash that but to say that over my life I have had answered prayer. Provable, without doubt 3 times. And this would be without the indwelling of the Spirit according to some.

But for me to pray for understanding... and make no mistake I have, and do, and will continue to do... I come away with differing ideas then you do.


Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #13 on: Thu Aug 01, 2019 - 12:01:20 »
Quote
         If you are indeed: seekingHiswisdom, then you are a child of God. All you have to do is this:

Quote from: The wise man
Ninety nine, plus, percent of the Holy Spirit's guidance is God's written word.  A standard joke is that when you are putting something together and it isn't going well, then read the instructions.

And then you shall know the truth and that truth shall indeed set you FREE from the doctrines of men. Amen~all glory be to God.           

I will continue to seek His wisdom and His truth.

It would be a whole lot easier if there was total consensus among the assorted members here, or perhaps I should say the assorted religious establishments represented on GC.

I feel I am merely an outsider looking in. That is fine.

Have you ever wondered why all churches do not believe the same thing?

I fully understand the reasons for the Protestant reformation but shoot....... Protestants cant agree on things.

Take baptism for example............

How in the world did the West Minster Confession get baptism so wrong?

How could the Baptist minister I talked to about Baptism tell his flock that Baptism does not save, but you must attend church service weekly or you are not saved.?

How could the non-denominational church that I could have been baptised in be willing to baptise you as a basic walk in with no
need to understand what and why it would be needed.?

How could the c of C that I talked to. Both of them. Agree to Baptise me and then one tossed me to another and that one
emailed, eventually, "they" decided not to.?

I'll stop but this is a scattering of actual churches and clergy that should be able to discern the same words with the same meaning and they can't.

You say........

And then you shall know the truth and that truth shall indeed set you FREE from the doctrines of men. Amen~all glory be to God.

I agree.... But how do I know that what I read and understand is not correct just because you tell me you see it differently?

I will accept it could be because I do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for lack of Baptism.... ( though I still can pray in tongues)

So reading and more study is not going to do it for me now, is it?

Anyway, this is totally OT....

The answer to the OP is NO... it is not biblical because it was never specifically stated as being approved or done.






Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #14 on: Sat Aug 10, 2019 - 18:17:09 »
You cannot go there.

Every single person that posts on GC, and those who used to but are gone, believes they understood the truth of what they read.

Most all have posted scripture from time to time in support of their positions of belief yet often resulted in a free for all of disagreement on what was being read, based on the context of that scripture.

How many of those posters have prayed for understanding I have no idea but it has been less than a handful that claimed to pray for understanding that I ever read on here since originally joining GC 5 or 6 years ago.

Look at the myriad of threads that came about on simple disagreement of why you need to be baptised.

And you people, who have participated in those are absolutely certain, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are correct and the other is wrong.

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I am not baptised in the sense that others here are. I believe I am the only one like this. I am not going to rehash that but to say that over my life I have had answered prayer. Provable, without doubt 3 times. And this would be without the indwelling of the Spirit according to some.

But for me to pray for understanding... and make no mistake I have, and do, and will continue to do... I come away with differing ideas then you do.
There are many that know the word of God backwards and forwards, yet they are not converted and will find out when Christ comes.

Luke 13:26-28 King James Version (KJV)

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #15 on: Sat Aug 10, 2019 - 20:24:30 »
There are many that know the word of God backwards and forwards, yet they are not converted and will find out when Christ comes.

Luke 13:26-28 King James Version (KJV)

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Are you speaking exclusively of infant baptism?

As you say "There are many that know the word of God backwards and forwards, yet they are not converted and will find out when Christ comes."

If as you say, to me that tells me that God , indeed, has those that He has chosen,  and then others who would desire to be in the mix who has done as they understood and believed what they read and missed it, or followed the guidance of their spiritual leaders, simply because they were never to be chosen..... And they are not converted.

For not all are given to understanding of the written word. I would suggest that you yourself have read commentaries and more then one on various aspects of the bible.... or possibly not.

People do read, and study and we both know exactly the varied disagreements on here about what the meaning of is is.... Someone is right and someone is wrong...

How do you know you are right?

Or more importantly.... What is it that those who studiously study the bible have done, or not done and still got the understanding wrong?

Perhaps it is as simple as not having been chosen, one does not have that capacity that you do?



Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Aug 26, 2019 - 06:31:20 »
You cannot go there.

Every single person that posts on GC, and those who used to but are gone, believes they understood the truth of what they read.

Most all have posted scripture from time to time in support of their positions of belief yet often resulted in a free for all of disagreement on what was being read, based on the context of that scripture.

How many of those posters have prayed for understanding I have no idea but it has been less than a handful that claimed to pray for understanding that I ever read on here since originally joining GC 5 or 6 years ago.

Look at the myriad of threads that came about on simple disagreement of why you need to be baptised.

And you people, who have participated in those are absolutely certain, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are correct and the other is wrong.

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I am not baptised in the sense that others here are. I believe I am the only one like this. I am not going to rehash that but to say that over my life I have had answered prayer. Provable, without doubt 3 times. And this would be without the indwelling of the Spirit according to some.

But for me to pray for understanding... and make no mistake I have, and do, and will continue to do... I come away with differing ideas then you do.
So you feel we need to stop praying?

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #17 on: Mon Aug 26, 2019 - 09:18:42 »
So you feel we need to stop praying?

I never said that. I never suggested that.

What I did say in this is

Quote
Quote from: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Aug 01, 2019 - 11:34:30
You cannot go there.

Every single person that posts on GC, and those who used to but are gone, believes they understood the truth of what they read.

Most all have posted scripture from time to time in support of their positions of belief yet often resulted in a free for all of disagreement on what was being read, based on the context of that scripture.

How many of those posters have prayed for understanding I have no idea but it has been less than a handful that claimed to pray for understanding that I ever read on here since originally joining GC 5 or 6 years ago.

Look at the myriad of threads that came about on simple disagreement of why you need to be baptised.

And you people, who have participated in those are absolutely certain, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are correct and the other is wrong.

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I am not baptised in the sense that others here are. I believe I am the only one like this. I am not going to rehash that but to say that over my life I have had answered prayer. Provable, without doubt 3 times. And this would be without the indwelling of the Spirit according to some.

But for me to pray for understanding... and make no mistake I have, and do, and will continue to do... I come away with differing ideas then you do.     

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I pray. You pray. and we usually will come away with a different understanding of what is correct.

WHY?

Certainly we all should pray.... but that is no guarantee that we will be on the same page.

And that is not just you and me and the people who post and argue and debate on GC..... That is true of people world wide.

Why in the world do you think that so many varieties of Christian worship... if I may call it that, for simplistic understanding, came about.

From Biblical Times, up through the ages....so many have "seen the light"~ "gotten inspiration"~ "had a vision(s)"and even , even
BEEN INSTRUCTED BY AN ANGEL, MESSENGER, OR GUIDE.

And all coming away with some differing ideas then John Smith or Bob Jones sitting Sunday morning in the front pew believing they are worshipping correctly and "learning"from the man who "was called by God". While their buddy Jack in the box is down the street at a different church worshiping and learning by a different guideline.

Now, someone is going to pray over a passage in the Holy Book and it will be crystal clear to them. Then another will pray over that same passage and get a different take.

Just look at you men right here... I am not talking just of the differing viewson baptism but of everything we read and believe we understand in what is said to be the "inspired" wordsof God.

How many times have you gone to someone or many commentaries of someone you trust to teach for claritie in your life.... And those people will also have been in disagreement with others of their peers.

WHY? Is God playing favorites on who gets to know the truth? 

At the risk of bringing the wrath of the women on here down on me I will say I could be convinced that women are denied the truth when they pray for it because of 1st Cor 14:34-35.

In any event.

Certainly we must pray. We are told that in the Holy Book. Unless someone can argue why not.








Offline Hobie

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #18 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 03:57:49 »
You cannot go there.

Every single person that posts on GC, and those who used to but are gone, believes they understood the truth of what they read.

Most all have posted scripture from time to time in support of their positions of belief yet often resulted in a free for all of disagreement on what was being read, based on the context of that scripture.

How many of those posters have prayed for understanding I have no idea but it has been less than a handful that claimed to pray for understanding that I ever read on here since originally joining GC 5 or 6 years ago.

Look at the myriad of threads that came about on simple disagreement of why you need to be baptised.

And you people, who have participated in those are absolutely certain, beyond reasonable doubt, that you are correct and the other is wrong.

So how can one know the truth if one prays and it does not line up with others?

I am not baptised in the sense that others here are. I believe I am the only one like this. I am not going to rehash that but to say that over my life I have had answered prayer. Provable, without doubt 3 times. And this would be without the indwelling of the Spirit according to some.

But for me to pray for understanding... and make no mistake I have, and do, and will continue to do... I come away with differing ideas then you do.
Yet, if they do not follow the Bible truth, but what others say or write, then they do not have Gods truth.

Offline beam

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #19 on: Tue Sep 10, 2019 - 09:19:47 »
Yet, if they do not follow the Bible truth, but what others say or write, then they do not have Gods truth.
Wow Hobie, you just confirmed what I found out 20 years ago.  I had been using the writings of Ellen White in place of reading the truth from scripture.  That is/was standard practice amongst the flock.  Instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to tell us what scripture is telling us SDAs rely on the writings of the prophet.  The problem becomes was the prophet correct in her interpretation?   Scholars and laymen alike are convinced that she, many times, was not correct.

Ellen admonished the flock to read their Bibles, but she is the final authority especially if there is any conflict.

Now tell me I am wrong and an idiot for even thinking such a thing.  Well, I didn't spend 40 years a SDA with my head in the sand.  I pretty much know how the system works.

Offline Amo

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Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?
« Reply #20 on: Fri Sep 13, 2019 - 10:23:49 »
Wow Hobie, you just confirmed what I found out 20 years ago.  I had been using the writings of Ellen White in place of reading the truth from scripture.  That is/was standard practice amongst the flock.  Instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to tell us what scripture is telling us SDAs rely on the writings of the prophet.  The problem becomes was the prophet correct in her interpretation?   Scholars and laymen alike are convinced that she, many times, was not correct.

Ellen admonished the flock to read their Bibles, but she is the final authority especially if there is any conflict.

Now tell me I am wrong and an idiot for even thinking such a thing.  Well, I didn't spend 40 years a SDA with my head in the sand.  I pretty much know how the system works.

Now the truth comes out. All emphasis in the following quote is mine -

Quote
I had been using the writings of Ellen White in place of reading the truth from scripture.  That is/was standard practice amongst the flock.  Instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to tell us what scripture is telling us SDAs rely on the writings of the prophet.

You may of course admit this truth concerning yourself, and perhaps make a general statement concerning the likelihood of the same concerning some of the flock, but it is self centered to presume all others do just as you did or do. Not to mention judgmental concerning things you simply are not privy to.

Many people are wrongly convinced about many things being incorrect. Such is proof of nothing. On the other hand, EGW's opinions or teachings not directly given to her by God, are as subject to the same possible faults as all the rest of us.

Quote
Ellen admonished the flock to read their Bibles, but she is the final authority especially if there is any conflict.

If some one tells you that you should make the bible the final authority, and you raise their word above it, whose fault is that? Certainly not the fault of the one who told you otherwise.

 

     
anything