author=beam link=topic=105033.msg1055152932#msg1055152932 date=1576446990]
It would seem that you cannot even be honest with your appraisal of the words destroy and fulfil. Even if you were correct what does that have to do with whether we are under the Sinai covenant. Jesus lived under the Sinai covenant. The laws of the covenant had to continue until the new covenant was ratified. Once all mankind was subject to the new covenant, whether they/we believed or didn't believe, the old one became obsolete. Jesus is our High Priest and where there is a change in the priesthood there is also a change in the law.
I have to go by what Jesus says, not ancient catholic doctrine. God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws did not became obsolete. The Christ points out in detail what became obsolete.
#1. How God's Laws were administered. After those days, no more Levite Priests, I will take over their duties and administer God's Laws myself.
#2. No more Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement of sins, I will atone for your sins Myself.
You are adding more to this than Jesus did, not because of any Scriptures which tell you to do so, but because of the influence of religions of this land.
You must reject the Greek meaning for destroy and fulfill because they show the two to be opposite in meaning. This verse is falsely interpreted by you to say "Think not that I come to bring and end the Law and Prophets, I came not to bring to an end, but to bring to an end."
I believe the Israelites were under all of the law.
We were all under the Law, not just Israel, which means we were all dead because we broke God's Laws. But Jesus paid this death for us, so we are no longer "under the Law".
Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin
, (shall we continue to break God's Commandments) because we are not under the law, (DEAD) but under grace? (ALIVE) God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey
, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (disobedience) unto death
, or of obedience unto righteousness
I can't just reject whatever Word's of the Bible that doesn't agree with this religious franchise or that.
Gentiles were never asked or required to be under those laws. Why do you insist that we subject ourselves to the Law now?
You preach this, but it isn't true.
Is. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters
: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
It seems you don't believe these Words.
Where is there even a hint that Christians are to abide by the laws given to Israel only? O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
I don't believe the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to obey God's Laws that they rejected and omitted from their religion.
You have been deceived into believing the Jews were teaching and following God's Laws, and were pushing God's Laws onto the Galatians. To believe this you must reject EVERY WORD Jesus used to describe them.
The "Works of the Law" the Jews were pushing on the Galatians was their version of the Levitical Priesthood that was Added to God's Laws, because of "Transgression" of God's Laws. This Priesthood that Abraham did not have, was "ADDED" on Mt. Sinai until the Seed, our High Priest, should come. It was a "shadow" of the Sacrifice Jesus was to make for His People.
It was to "lead them to their Savior". It did just that for Zechariahs and Simeon. When He came, this Law became "obsolete". But the 2 greatest Commandments in the law, and those Laws which show how to live in them, have not become obsolete. The teaching that they have is a deception that has snared many.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal 3:[/color][/b]
Judaizers were convincing Galatians they had to keep the demands of the Sinai covenant.
This is true in the matter of the Priesthood God "ADDED" to His Laws on Mt. Sinai. It is this Priesthood they were still pushing, because they didn't believe the Law and Prophets, and the scriptures I have given you.
You are free to preach anything you want. If you want to preach that the Jews were all the sudden trying to get the Galatians to obey all of God's instructions, go for it. But the truth is they were pushing their version of the Levitical Priesthood for the atonement of sins, which was "ADDED" to God's Laws and given to Israel on Mt. Sinai. Remember, the Bible says Abraham had God's Laws, God's Commandments, and God's Statutes, but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. He was justified "apart" from this Law. It was "ADDED" 430 years later.
Those Judaizers remind me of anyone that is trying to convince others that have to abide by the rules of the Sinai covenant. Christians have our own covenant to live up to. In Gal 3: 19 Paul wrote:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. and 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Added to what, because of Transgression of what Beam? Are you really preaching to the world that once we are led to the Christ, we no longer need to Love God, don't kill, don't steal, etc.? Or is Paul explaining the "ADDED" Priesthood that became obsolete when Jesus came, as Prophesied.
Does there have to be a prophecy?
Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
I would say yes. How else would we know if a teaching is from God or man.
There was the prophecy of Jeremiah which was later critiqued in the book of Hebrews. The new covenant is not like the old covenant, it is a better covenant with better promises. Could it possibly be that writing my laws in their hearts could mean the laws that Jesus gave us rather than the 613 laws that Israel failed time and time again to uphold? Paul sure thought so when he wrote that the ten commandments were done away.
Your "new covenant" and the one the Christ promised are two different covenants as the scriptures regarding them clearly show.. Is it a better that we can know God's Word without relying of corrupt Priests to teach us? Is it a better covenant to atone for sins once and for all, as opposed to shedding the blood of animals over and over? And again, you are purposely furthering an insidious lie that God created 613 laws for man to follow, then killed them when they didn't follow them. I have asked for support for this false teaching, but you refuse to supply it. Why would you do such a thing.
What about the "countless" times he was displeased with all of Israel, even Moses. God kept faithful Moses from stepping on the soil that God promised to give to Israel.
Paul answers your questions, you just haven't been taught it by your preachers.
1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased
: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things
, as they also lusted.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples
: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall
Why did Zechariahs and Simeon know the Christ when He came, but the Levite Priest's didn't? One heeded the examples written for them, the others did not.
Hold on there partner, I have never written or ever indicated that I do not believe. That in no way stops us from believing we are not under the laws of a covenant given only to Israel.
But Beam, God's Law wasn't just for Israel. This is your religion, but just like your covenant, and your 613 laws, it isn't from the God of the Bible. I don't say these things to be mean, rather, to warn you of what Jesus warned of over and over. I think we should get our information from the Christ, the Author of my Faith, not random religions of the land.
Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, (Jew) and unto the stranger (Gentile) that sojourneth among you.
Is. 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger,
(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths
, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters
: I will give them an everlasting name
, that shall not be cut off
Why do you not believe this, and why do you preach the opposite.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD
, to serve him
, and to love the name of the LORD
, to be his servants
, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it
, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain
, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people
How can you not be corrected by these Word's? Can you see what I mean? You preach one thing;
" we are not under the laws of a covenant given only to Israel"
But the Christ teaches the opposite.
"Even unto them (Gentiles) will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters"
[/u]First of all we have to recognize who Jesus was talking to and the fact that He too was under the Sinai covenant. All Israelites at that time were under the laws of the Sinai covenant. The new covenant had yet to be ratified. Jesus taught what then was the law. Why would you say that Jesus performed priesthood duties. Did He ever work in the Temple Did He ever offer sacrifices for the Israelites in the Temple. Was He forbidden to teach because of some law that kept layman from teaching. What are you trying to prove?
Did Jesus forgive sins while walking on earth? How could he do this when according to the Law only Levites could perform these Priesthood duties. In fact, it was expressly forbidden for anyone other than a Levite to partake in the "atonement" process. Hebrews explains how Jesus was able to do this and not be guilty of sin.
First He created a New Covenant in which He became the source of God's Laws, not the Levites according to the Covenant God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai. And He became the High Priest to perform the Priesthood duties for the atonement of sins, not the Levite Priests according to the Covenant God made with Israel in Mt. Sinai.
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law
,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed
, there is made of necessity a change also of the law
And what was that change in the law Beam? The Author tells you, in detail, exactly what that change was.
13 For he (Jesus) of whom these things are spoken
pertaineth to another tribe
, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda
; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood
According to the Covenant God made with Israel, on Mt. Sinai, only a Levite could perform Priesthood duties. So for Jesus to become our High Priest, there was, by necessity, a need to change the Law so as to allow someone from another tribe to become the High Priest.
It's right there in your own Bible Beam. Read it for yourself, and tell me how my understanding is not truth according to HIS Word.