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Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #105 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 04:59:22 »
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 18:50:09
I think if you look at it honestly, you'll find that basically all the commandments of the Old Covenant, are also part of the New Covenant.
That's so, for all the law is summed up in two commandments~Love for God and man. There were certain laws that only pertain to Israel especially so their dietary laws, that were only until the time of reformation going from the OT worship to the worship under the new covenant of Jesus Christ who far exceeded Moses. Acts 10; 2nd Corinthians 3; Hebrews 3; etc.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

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Re: Works
« Reply #105 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 04:59:22 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #106 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 05:06:03 »
Quote from: Michael
So, for example, are the following laws not done away with?
I try to avoid these kind of conversations - the ones where people spout verses back and forth and try to make the Bible look silly in order to justify their own point.

To answer your questions directly, no these weren't done away with, and I guess I keep all of them except for eating pork, which is bad for me and I know it.  But bacon is delicious, what can I say?  You've got me there.

Jarrod

Why, you don't want people testing the spirit?

It's not about getting you or what, nor is about you are wrong they are right, I am right they are wrong. It's about getting the truth out and knowing it and walking in it.

The laws on foods on Deut. 14, as I was saying are part of the Mosaic covenant law that was done away with because said covenant was already replaced by the new covenant in Christ.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Works
« Reply #107 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 05:27:14 »
It's pretty much just the pig, isn't it?  I don't know anyone eating vulture or camel.  We look at those and rightfully say "yuck!"
Do you eat catfish?  Or Lobster? Or shrimp?

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Re: Works
« Reply #107 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 05:27:14 »

Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #108 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 08:18:47 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159577#msg1055159577 date=1585475735]
Quote
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
How is it righteous to ignore or reject God's Judgments.

Quote
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Yes, the Carnal mind, that is , the mind that refuses to submit to God, is death. But if I am Spiritually minded, that is, if I follow the Instructions of the One and Only God, as Jesus did, and deny myself and with my mind, "serve the Laws of God", as Paul did, that behavior does not lead to death.

Your problem is you don't understand the scriptures you use to further your religion, and you ignore the rest.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Quote
Hebrews 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Every Priest, from Aaron to Jesus, was "Made after the Law of a carnal Commandment". It was called the Levitical Priesthood, and in this Law a Priest of God was appointed by other men. (Other Levites) But Jesus, became our High Priest, not based on His Bloodline as the Priesthood Law commanded, but because of His "works" as it is written.

Phil. 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: He is now our High Priest and will never die like the Levite Priests died.

Heb. 7:8 And here (Levitical Priesthood) men that die receive tithes; but there (New Priesthood) he (Jesus) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

The two Greatest Commandments, and all that hang on them, are not carnal as your preaching implies, they are Spiritual. The Levitical Priesthood is the "Carnal Commandment" spoken of in Heb. 7.


Quote
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Again, you cherry pick scriptures, and take them out of context, to excuse your refusal to Honor God's Judgments. The Mainstream preachers in Jesus' time furthered a religion which did the same. But when you consider the subject of the chapter you quote, the folly of your attempt to manipulate the Scriptures become clear.

Heb. 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

These scriptures are speaking of the Priesthood duties. You should know this. If you do, then you are being purposefully deceitful by posting the one verse out of context to promote your rejection of some of God's Judgments. If you don't know, then you shouldn't be preaching and rebuking others who do.
 

Quote
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/color]

Yes, God's People should never let any man judge them in their obedience to HIM. The world hates Him and will never submit to Him. But God's people are "Children of Obedience", we are not to let the "other religious voice" deceive us into rejecting God's Judgments like it did to Eve. As it is written in the very next verse.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

You wouldn't understand.

Quote
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.[/left]

Again, you cherry pick scriptures.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And how do we know if the Spirit of God dwells in us?

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The verses you twist to defend your lifestyle do not erase or destroy the verses you posted in Duet. They are ALL inspired by the same Christ.









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Re: Works
« Reply #108 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 08:18:47 »
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Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #109 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 10:12:32 »
Quote from: Apostle Paul
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

How is it righteous to ignore or reject God's Judgments.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Apostle Paul
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Yes, the Carnal mind, that is , the mind that refuses to submit to God, is death. But if I am Spiritually minded, that is, if I follow the Instructions of the One and Only God, as Jesus did, and deny myself and with my mind, "serve the Laws of God", as Paul did, that behavior does not lead to death.

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Quote from: GB
Your problem is you don't understand the scriptures you use to further your religion, and you ignore the rest.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Scriptures
Hebrews 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Every Priest, from Aaron to Jesus, was "Made after the Law of a carnal Commandment". It was called the Levitical Priesthood, and in this Law a Priest of God was appointed by other men. (Other Levites) But Jesus, became our High Priest, not based on His Bloodline as the Priesthood Law commanded, but because of His "works" as it is written.

Phil. 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: He is now our High Priest and will never die like the Levite Priests died.

Heb. 7:8 And here (Levitical Priesthood) men that die receive tithes; but there (New Priesthood) he (Jesus) receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

The two Greatest Commandments, and all that hang on them, are not carnal as your preaching implies, they are Spiritual. The Levitical Priesthood is the "Carnal Commandment" spoken of in Heb. 7.

Levitical Priesthood ~ Laws given by God to Moses

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Scriptures
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Again, you cherry pick scriptures, and take them out of context, to excuse your refusal to Honor God's Judgments. The Mainstream preachers in Jesus' time furthered a religion which did the same. But when you consider the subject of the chapter you quote, the folly of your attempt to manipulate the Scriptures become clear.

Heb. 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

These scriptures are speaking of the Priesthood duties. You should know this. If you do, then you are being purposefully deceitful by posting the one verse out of context to promote your rejection of some of God's Judgments. If you don't know, then you shouldn't be preaching and rebuking others who do.

Levitical Priesthood ~ Laws given by God to Moses

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Apostle Paul
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Yes, God's People should never let any man judge them in their obedience to HIM. The world hates Him and will never submit to Him. But God's people are "Children of Obedience", we are not to let the "other religious voice" deceive us into rejecting God's Judgments like it did to Eve. As it is written in the very next verse.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

You wouldn't understand.

Shadow --- not reality.
Shadow --- temporal, fades.


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Apostle Paul
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Again, you cherry pick scriptures.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And how do we know if the Spirit of God dwells in us?

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


mind = the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

"Carnal mind" --- reasoning and thinking that is wordly and relates only to the temporal appetites and passions of the body.

Quote from: GB
The verses you twist to defend your lifestyle do not erase or destroy the verses you posted in Duet. They are ALL inspired by the same Christ.

That's interesting. I haven't said anything but only posted scriptures and you accuse  me twisting the verses?

It shows what mind and heart you indeed have. 
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 10:23:34 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Works
« Reply #109 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 10:12:32 »



Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #110 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 15:49:46 »
Quote
author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159611#msg1055159611 date=1585494752]

The Levitical Priesthood was given to Levi by Moses, as a Covenant of God, on Israel's behalf. This Priesthood, like the Levites, were Separate from Israel and Separate from the Laws God gave to Israel.

Just because you don't know or belief this Biblical Truth, doesn't make the Word's of God void.

The Scriptures you ignored are not "Carnal" or "Fleshy". God had them written for the admonition of those who believe in HIM.

They are foolishness to Gentiles, and a stumbling block to the religious.


16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

One God, One Law, no Jew, no Gentile.


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Re: Works
« Reply #110 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 15:49:46 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Works
« Reply #111 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 20:16:22 »
Do you eat catfish?  Or Lobster? Or shrimp?
I mean, I've tried all of them in the past, but I can't actually remember the last time I had any of those.

I live in Arizona, so I'd have to go out of my way to find seafood, and it would be expensive, and I don't actually like most fish, so...

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #112 on: Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 20:50:30 »
The Levitical Priesthood was given to Levi by Moses, as a Covenant of God, on Israel's behalf. This Priesthood, like the Levites, were Separate from Israel and Separate from the Laws God gave to Israel.

Just because you don't know or belief this Biblical Truth, doesn't make the Word's of God void.

The Scriptures you ignored are not "Carnal" or "Fleshy". God had them written for the admonition of those who believe in HIM.

They are foolishness to Gentiles, and a stumbling block to the religious.


16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

One God, One Law, no Jew, no Gentile.

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Laws pertaining to to the temporal fleshly body like meats and drinks, washings, are carnal ordinances, for all relates to the appetites and passions of the body, worldly, temporal, and soon will fade.

The Laws pertaining to the priesthood were given by God to Moses, which in turn gave them to the Levites to do. Moses is not the author of the Levitical priesthood, but God. You can deny that all you want, but it will remain to be the truth. 

Exodus 40:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 1:1 And the Lord called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,

Leviticus 4:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 6:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 8:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,


Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Why carnal?

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:

Offline RB

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Re: Works
« Reply #113 on: Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 03:06:55 »
Do you eat catfish?  Or Lobster? Or shrimp?
Yes to all three. especially so lobster and shrimp two of my favorites.

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Re: Works
« Reply #113 on: Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 03:06:55 »

Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #114 on: Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 08:07:41 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159684#msg1055159684 date=1585533030]
Quote
Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Laws pertaining to to the temporal fleshly body like meats and drinks, washings, are carnal ordinances, for all relates to the appetites and passions of the body, worldly, temporal, and soon will fade.

Yes, as the Scriptures teach, the Levitical Priesthood Law and it's "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, have been replaced by the Spiritual Priesthood God gave to Jesus, who was obedient to God unto death. As it is written "imposed on them until the time of reformation" or as Paul said in another place " Added, Till the Seed should come".

You are refusing to accept that God Separated the Levites from the rest of Israel, gave them a Covenant on Israel's behalf, separate from the Holy, Just and Good Laws God gave  to Abraham, then to Abraham's children.

Quote
The Laws pertaining to the priesthood were given by God to Moses, which in turn gave them to the Levites to do. Moses is not the author of the Levitical priesthood, but God. You can deny that all you want, but it will remain to be the truth.


Yes, as I have said in every post in which I discussed this, God gave Levi, through Moses, the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood, which the Levites Corrupted. I do not deny this truth at all, but declare it to all who preach to the world that what became "obsolete" was not the old priesthood, but God's Laws Noah honored, which were given to Abraham and then to Abraham's children.

The Levitical Priesthood was to "lead them" to their Savior, the Lamb of God for atonement. And for some who humbled themselves to God, the poor in spirit, those who "circumcised the foreskins of their heart". and hungered and thirsted for righteousness, it did.

Like Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna just to name a few.

But these shepherds lead many astray because they "corrupted the Covenant of Levi". This is Biblical Truth that you should know, but you don't. This is because, as Peter says; "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Quote
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Why carnal?

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:[/b][/quote]

I don't know for sure why God did it this way. I just know HE did. But HIS Theme remains the same through out the Bible and His Creation.

A baby falls first then learns how to walk. Man is flesh at first, then Spiritual. "First Adam, Second Adam". Those children of God were "Children of Disobedience" first, then they obeyed from the heart. Servants of sin first, then servants of righteousness. Carnal Priesthood first, then Spiritual Priesthood.

But for the purpose of this thread, the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking too, pertains to the atonement "works" of the Law given in the First Covenant to Levi, on Israel's behalf, for justification, or as it is said in the Law and Prophets "Atonement".

As Paul and the Hebrew's author said "imposed on them until the time of reformation" and "ADDED, Till the Seed should come".

Abraham had God's Statutes, Commandments, Judgments and Laws, but not the Levitical Priesthood, or it's "works of the Law" for the atonement of his sins. His sins were atoned for "Apart from the Law" of atonement given 430 years later..

You don't know this because your religion doesn't teach it. But if you would actually look into it, you will find that everything I have posted here is Biblical Truth. Except my answer to "Why" God does what He does. I don't even pretend to know, accept that it is for my admonition.












Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #115 on: Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 09:28:54 »
Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly

Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:


Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Laws pertaining to to the temporal fleshly body like meats and drinks, washings, are carnal ordinances, for all relates to the appetites and passions of the body, worldly, temporal, and soon will fade.
Yes, as the Scriptures teach, the Levitical Priesthood Law and it's "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, have been replaced by the Spiritual Priesthood God gave to Jesus, who was obedient to God unto death. As it is written "imposed on them until the time of reformation" or as Paul said in another place " Added, Till the Seed should come".

You are refusing to accept that God Separated the Levites from the rest of Israel, gave them a Covenant on Israel's behalf, separate from the Holy, Just and Good Laws God gave  to Abraham, then to Abraham's children.

 
So, the Levitical priesthood law, including the "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, the ceremonies, the meats and drinks, washings, are carnal ordinances. At least that's settled now.

I am refusing nothing from scriptures, but only your interpretation of scriptures which in my view is wrong. You said and teach that God gave the Levites a Covenant on Israel's behalf, separate from the Holy, Just and Good Laws God gave to Abraham. Why, I hope you are not implying by that , that the Levitical priesthood law and the "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, are not holy, just and good. For it is the same God who gave such laws to them, and any and all law that comes from God are holy, just and good.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
The Laws pertaining to the priesthood were given by God to Moses, which in turn gave them to the Levites to do. Moses is not the author of the Levitical priesthood, but God. You can deny that all you want, but it will remain to be the truth.
Yes, as I have said in every post in which I discussed this, God gave Levi, through Moses, the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood, which the Levites Corrupted. I do not deny this truth at all, but declare it to all who preach to the world that what became "obsolete" was not the old priesthood, but God's Laws Noah honored, which were given to Abraham and then to Abraham's children.

I know you preach that. You tirelessly, but needlessly, repeat it in your post. You speak of "the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood". If it was "old", it follows that there is a new that replaced the said covenant. And if the former was "the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood", what is the new? Is it anything sort of like "the New Covenant of the Christ's Priesthood" or what? If the former covenant was between God and the Levites, on Israel's behalf, the new covenant, to be a replacement of the former, should likewise be between the same parties in covenant, right? For only then would the former covenant with Levi properly be the "Old", and what replaced it, be properly the "New". But as it is, the New Covenant is no longer with the Levites on behalf of Israel. ???

Quote from: GB
The Levitical Priesthood was to "lead them" to their Savior, the Lamb of God for atonement. And for some who humbled themselves to God, the poor in spirit, those who "circumcised the foreskins of their heart". and hungered and thirsted for righteousness, it did.

Like Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna just to name a few.

But these shepherds lead many astray because they "corrupted the Covenant of Levi". This is Biblical Truth that you should know, but you don't. This is because, as Peter says; "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

It's just repeating what you said in basically every post you make. Nothing new. And many had addressed that part of your preaching and teaching. So there is nothing new to address there.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Why carnal?

Carnal = relating to the appetites and passions of the body; sensual; fleshly
Carnal = not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly:

I don't know for sure why God did it this way. I just know HE did. But HIS Theme remains the same through out the Bible and His Creation.

Perhaps you don't know why, but at least you know that they are carnal ordinances, as only pertains to the fleshly body, all relating to the appetites and passions of the body, worldly, temporal, and soon will fade. And now that the substance for which they were but shadows of, had already come, doing away with all these carnal ordinances, the Christian may know why God did it that way. The answer is found in Jesus Christ. I will not tell you, for I'm sure you won't believe a single word I say. But this I can tell you, search and look in scriptures, particularly in Jesus Christ, and you might know.

Quote from: GB
A baby falls first then learns how to walk. Man is flesh at first, then Spiritual. "First Adam, Second Adam". Those children of God were "Children of Disobedience" first, then they obeyed from the heart. Servants of sin first, then servants of righteousness. Carnal Priesthood first, then Spiritual Priesthood.

But for the purpose of this thread, the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking too, pertains to the atonement "works" of the Law given in the First Covenant to Levi, on Israel's behalf, for justification, or as it is said in the Law and Prophets "Atonement".

As Paul and the Hebrew's author said "imposed on them until the time of reformation" and "ADDED, Till the Seed should come".

Abraham had God's Statutes, Commandments, Judgments and Laws, but not the Levitical Priesthood, or it's "works of the Law" for the atonement of his sins. His sins were atoned for "Apart from the Law" of atonement given 430 years later..

You don't know this because your religion doesn't teach it. But if you would actually look into it, you will find that everything I have posted here is Biblical Truth. Except my answer to "Why" God does what He does. I don't even pretend to know, accept that it is for my admonition.

I sure know those scriptures related to that. But I just know them differently than you know them. And your interpretation of them, no matter how many times you repeat them here, is not what will make it to be the right interpretation.

Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #116 on: Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 13:51:50 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159717#msg1055159717 date=1585578534]
 
 
So, the Levitical priesthood law, including the "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, the ceremonies, the meats and drinks, washings, are carnal ordinances. At least that's settled now.

Yes, in Paul's time the "works of the Law" that the Mainstream Preachers were still requiring for justification had became obsolete. At least you are now believing the Word's of God which shows the two separate Laws. "Law of Works" and the "Law of Faith"

Quote
I am refusing nothing from scriptures, but only your interpretation of scriptures which in my view is wrong. You said and teach that God gave the Levites a Covenant on Israel's behalf, separate from the Holy, Just and Good Laws God gave to Abraham. Why, I hope you are not implying by that , that the Levitical priesthood law and the "Works" for the ministration of the Temple and atonement of sins, are not holy, just and good. For it is the same God who gave such laws to them, and any and all law that comes from God are holy, just and good.

You chase your tail and keep moving the bar because you don't know the Scriptures. Yet, you preach as though you do.

1 Tim. 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

It is not "lawful" to continue the Priesthood practice of the "ministration of death" for the atonement of sins, when the Lamb of God has already shed HIS Blood.


Quote
Yes, as I have said in every post in which I discussed this, God gave Levi, through Moses, the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood, which the Levites Corrupted. I do not deny this truth at all, but declare it to all who preach to the world that what became "obsolete" was not the old priesthood, but God's Laws Noah honored, which were given to Abraham and then to Abraham's children.

I know you preach that. You tirelessly, but needlessly, repeat it in your post. You speak of "the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood". If it was "old", it follows that there is a new that replaced the said covenant. And if the former was "the Old Covenant of the Levitical Priesthood", what is the new?

Again, you ask questions because you don't know the Scriptures, but preach as though you do.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The New Covenant Priesthood is not exclusive to the Levites as the Old Covenant was.

The New Covenant Priesthood has a NEW and Better Way for sins to be forgiven, and for God's Laws to be administered.

Heb. 8: 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And what are these "better Promises?"

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Quote
Is it anything sort of like "the New Covenant of the Christ's Priesthood" or what? If the former covenant was between God and the Levites, on Israel's behalf, the new covenant, to be a replacement of the former, should likewise be between the same parties in covenant, right?

The former Covenant was on behalf of the Home Born, and the Stranger that sojourned with them. The Christ said that anyone who keeps from polluting HIS Sabbaths and honors HIS judgments will be considered as one of His Own. But the Priest's corrupted the Covenant of Levi, they caused many to depart out of the way, they said the stranger was "strangers to the commonwealth of Israel, without God and without Hope in the World.

Therefore;

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

So yes, the New Priesthood includes the same parties, as Paul teaches.

Rom. 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentile) wert graffed in among them, (Sojourned with them) and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the (Holy) root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Quote
For only then would the former covenant with Levi properly be the "Old", and what replaced it, be properly the "New". But as it is, the New Covenant is no longer with the Levites on behalf of Israel. ???

Yes, there is no longer a "Levitical Priesthood", but a Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.

Quote
It's just repeating what you said in basically every post you make. Nothing new. And many had addressed that part of your preaching and teaching. So there is nothing new to address there.

No, nothing new. It is the same truth religious men of this world has rejected for centuries, and the religions before that as well. But it is right there in your own bible if you can consider the warnings therein, and acknowledge your own ignorance of them. Hard to do when you are already convinced you are all set.

Quote
I don't know for sure why God did it this way. I just know HE did. But HIS Theme remains the same through out the Bible and His Creation.

Since you have elected not to discuss the rest of my post, I will stop here as well.





Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #117 on: Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 02:31:38 »
The New Covenant Priesthood is not exclusive to the Levites as the Old Covenant was.

Let us see the spirit of this teaching of yours. In your doctrine, you teach that the Old covenant priesthood was exclusive to the Levites. That only the Levites holds the office of priesthood in the OT. That they are the only ones who are to be priests. Now you teach that the New Covenant Priesthood is not exclusive to the Levites. Are you saying that the office of priesthood is still there and now is held not only by the Levites, but also by others? Who else besides the Levites holds the office of priesthood? And what are their priestly duties in the new covenant?

The New Covenant Priesthood has a NEW and Better Way for sins to be forgiven, and for God's Laws to be administered.

New and better way for sins to be forgiven? Tell us, in this doctrine of yours, what is the new and better way for sins to be forgiven in the new covenant priesthood?

New and better way for God's laws to be administered? Tell us, in this doctrine of yours, what is the new and better way that God's laws are administered in the new covenant priesthood?

Heb. 8: 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And what are these "better Promises?"

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So, in your doctrine of the new covenant priesthood, those are the better promises? Would you say that those are the better promises and if so, the only better promises?

Is it anything sort of like "the New Covenant of the Christ's Priesthood" or what? If the former covenant was between God and the Levites, on Israel's behalf, the new covenant, to be a replacement of the former, should likewise be between the same parties in covenant, right?
The former Covenant was on behalf of the Home Born, and the Stranger that sojourned with them. The Christ said that anyone who keeps from polluting HIS Sabbaths and honors HIS judgments will be considered as one of His Own. But the Priest's corrupted the Covenant of Levi, they caused many to depart out of the way, they said the stranger was "strangers to the commonwealth of Israel, without God and without Hope in the World.

Therefore;

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

So yes, the New Priesthood includes the same parties, as Paul teaches.

Rom. 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, (Gentile) wert graffed in among them, (Sojourned with them) and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the (Holy) root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

In your doctrine, you seem to want to make it appear that the former covenant that God made with the children of Israel at Sinai, includes "the stranger that sojourn with them". That is deceptive, I have to point out. For what is clear is that, it is with the children of Israel that God made the covenant with. That means, all children of Israel are necessarily put under the covenant. That means the stranger was necessarily not a part of it, though, the covenant provides for the stranger to become part of it, if and when he is willing to be part of it. Only then will the stranger be part of the covenant. But it is not so, as with the covenant people, the children of Israel. So, no twisting of scriptures please.

Untwisted scriptures plainly and clearly says of the former covenant as being between God and the children of Israel, and so too, of the new covenant which is a replacement of the former, being made old. The "strangers who sojourns with the children of Israel" and the "grafting in of Gentiles" are a different matter and does not at all have anything to do with the two parties between whom the covenant is made.
 
For only then would the former covenant with Levi properly be the "Old", and what replaced it, be properly the "New". But as it is, the New Covenant is no longer with the Levites on behalf of Israel. ???
Yes, there is no longer a "Levitical Priesthood", but a Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.

So, in your doctrine, the old covenant is the Levitical Priesthood, and the new covenant is the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek?

The old covenant, according to you, which you teach, is a covenant between God and the Levites, in behalf of Israel, and is the Levitical priesthood and not anything else. On the other hand, scriptures says, the old covenant is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel in the day when God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. It was a covenant that would have God make the children of Israel, to be a nation of people in a land of their own which God had promised to Abraham, to be a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation (Exo.19:6). So, it's not just about the Levitical priesthood, but a lot more. So, how do you suppose, with the Levitical priesthood, would God had accomplished that?

Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #118 on: Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 13:57:56 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159787#msg1055159787 date=1585639898]


So, in your doctrine, the old covenant is the Levitical Priesthood, and the new covenant is the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek?

The old covenant, according to you, which you teach, is a covenant between God and the Levites, in behalf of Israel, and is the Levitical priesthood and not anything else. On the other hand, scriptures says, the old covenant is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel in the day when God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. It was a covenant that would have God make the children of Israel, to be a nation of people in a land of their own which God had promised to Abraham, to be a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation (Exo.19:6). So, it's not just about the Levitical priesthood, but a lot more. So, how do you suppose, with the Levitical priesthood, would God had accomplished that?
[/quote]

With you and the Pope, yes, the old covenant in any law which you have Judged as not worthy of your honor or respect.

What I have done is not listen to you or "other religious voices" out there, and cling to the Word of God.

As to HIS NEW Covenant, HE defines it so that even a child can understand. I will post it again.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

So here you are Michael, this is your chance to let the Christ of the Bible Himself tell you directly from HIS Own Words what HIS NEW Covenant is.

; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There you go Michael, "I will write MY LAWS on your inward parts". I believe this to mean the mind.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

And here we are, the Word of God can be found in every motel, every book store, at literally thousands of internet outlets. I don't have to rely on some Levite Priest, or any Priest to understand God's Word. I just have to remember "Today if I hear His Voice, harden not my heart"

for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No more Levite Priests to perform "Works of the Law" for atonement. Just deny myself and "believe" in HIS Words enough to "continue in them".



Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #119 on: Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 01:52:13 »
]So, in your doctrine, the old covenant is the Levitical Priesthood, and the new covenant is the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek?

The old covenant, according to you, which you teach, is a covenant between God and the Levites, in behalf of Israel, and is the Levitical priesthood and not anything else. On the other hand, scriptures says, the old covenant is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel in the day when God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. It was a covenant that would have God make the children of Israel, to be a nation of people in a land of their own which God had promised to Abraham, to be a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation (Exo.19:6). So, it's not just about the Levitical priesthood, but a lot more. So, how do you suppose, with the Levitical priesthood, would God had accomplished that?
With you and the Pope, yes, the old covenant in any law which you have Judged as not worthy of your honor or respect.
Perfect rebuttal from GB.

Quote from: GB
What I have done is not listen to you or "other religious voices" out there, and cling to the Word of God.
Again, another perfect rebuttal from GB.

Quote from: GB
As to HIS NEW Covenant, HE defines it so that even a child can understand. I will post it again.
And another.

Quote from: GB
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

So here you are Michael, this is your chance to let the Christ of the Bible Himself tell you directly from HIS Own Words what HIS NEW Covenant is.

Jer.31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

So there GB, this is your chance to let God Himself tell you directly from His words in scriptures what the new covenant He will make is not.   

Quote from: GB
; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There you go Michael, "I will write MY LAWS on your inward parts". I believe this to mean the mind.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The Hebrew writer defines the "inward parts" as the mind. So, you are right to believe that to be the mind.

Now God writes them in their hearts. Do you know what is the heart of man? Are God's laws put there in your mind and written in your heart, GB? If you claim they are, do you know them by memory and by heart? If you claim to know them by memory and by heart, can you tell us what they are? For it is only you who can tell us what laws God had put there in your mind and had written there in your heart GB.

But wait, do you believe that man has a spiritual component, and not only physical or material flesh and blood? Well, whether you believe or not that man has a spirit, it does not change the truth that man do have a spirit. According to scriptures, it is your spirit who knows what laws God had put in your mind and written in your heart. But if you don't believe you have a spirit, I am pessimistic that you don't know them, for God's law are spiritual and discerned spiritually and that by the spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Quote from: GB
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

And here we are, the Word of God can be found in every motel, every book store, at literally thousands of internet outlets.

As for me, the Word of God can be found in every elect of God, in every sheep of the Good Shepherd Jesus Christ, in the church of God, in the sons of God.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Do you know who is the Word that was made flesh? He is the Christ, whose name is Jesus, him who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, whose Father is God, and was born of the virgin Mary, in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea.

Jesus, the Christ, is the Word of God. And He would certainly be found in every elect of God, in every sheep of the Good Shepherd Jesus Christ, in the church of God, in the sons of God.

Quote from: GB
I don't have to rely on some Levite Priest, or any Priest to understand God's Word. I just have to remember "Today if I hear His Voice, harden not my heart"for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No more Levite Priests to perform "Works of the Law" for atonement. Just deny myself and "believe" in HIS Words enough to "continue in them".

Your WORDS:

Quote from: GB on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 13:51:50
The New Covenant Priesthood is not exclusive to the Levites as the Old Covenant was.


You teach that the New Covenant Priesthood is not exclusive to the Levites. But you never answer the questions to your statement, which will expose its truthfulness or falsehood, as follows:

"Are you saying that the office of priesthood is still there and now is held not only by the Levites, but also by others? Who else besides the Levites holds the office of priesthood? And what are their priestly duties in the new covenant?"

Offline GB

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Re: Works
« Reply #120 on: Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 10:38:17 »
author=Michael2012 link=topic=105660.msg1055159904#msg1055159904 date=1585723933]


Quote
"Are you saying that the office of priesthood is still there and now is held not only by the Levites, but also by others? Who else besides the Levites holds the office of priesthood?

I'm posting what the Bible is saying. Not by other's, but "another" who was not a Levite, but from Judah.

Heb. 7:23 And they (Levite Priests)  truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, (The risen Christ) because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the law (Priesthood Law) maketh men (Levites) high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, (IS. 7:16) which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

"And what are their priestly duties in the new covenant?"

Not theirs, but His. Get your gotcha questions right.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.







Offline Michael2012

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Re: Works
« Reply #121 on: Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 11:27:07 »
I'm posting what the Bible is saying. Not by other's, but "another" who was not a Levite, but from Judah.

Heb. 7:23 And they (Levite Priests)  truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, (The risen Christ) because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the law (Priesthood Law) maketh men (Levites) high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, (IS. 7:16) which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

"And what are their priestly duties in the new covenant?"

Not theirs, but His. Get your gotcha questions right.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Quote from: GB on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 13:51:50
The New Covenant Priesthood
is not exclusive to the Levites as the Old Covenant was.

"is not exclusive" implies that the Levites are still in the office of the priesthood.

Get yourself the right statements if that is not what you mean.
« Last Edit: Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 11:29:34 by Michael2012 »

 

     
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