Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

dan p
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Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« on: February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM »


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Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« on: February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM »


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 12:44:53 AM »

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

Hi to all . Most don't want to believe it , BUT Israel has been set aside for 2000 years , and someone will still say that , that is not so .

1) There are many sign posts that Israel is in trouble, They kill their Messiah .

2) Then in Acts 3:19,20 , if they would repent , Jesus would come back per v20 , but they would not repent .

3) Then in Acts 7 , they killed Stephen who said that they resisted the Holy Spirit in v 51 .

4) Here we have another sign post for us to see . In 1 Cor 13:8 .

5) Love never faileth , but whether there be prophecies , they shall fail ; whether there be tongues they shall cease , whether there be knowledge , it shall vanish away .

6) v9 we know in part , and we prophecy in part .

7) v10 , the perfection is the Bible, because we will have the MIND of Christ

8) What are prophecy , tongues , knowledge compared to ?

9) Childish THINGS IN VERSE 11 .

10) When I was a child ; I spake as a Child , I thought as a CHILD , I understood as a CHILD ,

11) But when we grow up in the Grace of God , we all put away CHILDISH things , like prophecies, tongues , Knowledge , because we have the complete word of God and those gifts are no longer needed.

12) Sign gifts were a witness to Israel and NOT for the Body of Christ .

I... didn't have time to look through all the versus but some things I wanted to point out -

your point number one - Jews alone didn't kill "their messiah" huammnity did. Jews are not that far sepparated from christians. Christianity came out of Judiasm, the first christians were in fact Jews. Paul is the one who seperated the two into two different religions, before that it was a sect of judiasm.

You once again blame the entire Jewish race by saying they killed Stephen. Stephen was a Jew and he didn't kill himself. So here his christian brethren, and I'm sure there were many many other Jews who would not of put him to death. It was the twisted government of the time, Judiasm has always had it's ups and downs with government, just like all governments. This just happened to be a time when big changes were happening. Bear in mind, Americans have put people to death for no other reason than being black.

So you say the Jews have been set aside, but I don't understand what you mean exactly. Set aside for what?

It would seem that God certainly has his hand on the jewish race, as it is the ONLY race that has survived as long as it has without losing it's cultural identity. They simply don't assimilate. They are amazing, they have been conquered time and time again, only to survive... no, THRIVE in each culture that takes them over. The Babolonians did it, the persians did it... and this was even before Rome did it.

They have re-defined their religion time and time again (just as the christians have done), but each time they stay Jews. Societies tend to last 200 to 400 years, and that's only if their government is stable, and it never lasts if the society is moved into another society. Jews on the other hand... they have thrived in tiny numbers for thousands upon thousands of years, taken over by more cultures than... well any other culture in history as far as I know, and still they thrive AS Jews. God is certainly involved in their culture.


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 12:44:53 AM »


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Amo
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 10:48:19 AM »

Quote

I... didn't have time to look through all the versus but some things I wanted to point out -

your point number one - Jews alone didn't kill "their messiah" huammnity did. Jews are not that far sepparated from christians. Christianity came out of Judiasm, the first christians were in fact Jews. Paul is the one who seperated the two into two different religions, before that it was a sect of judiasm.

You once again blame the entire Jewish race by saying they killed Stephen. Stephen was a Jew and he didn't kill himself. So here his christian brethren, and I'm sure there were many many other Jews who would not of put him to death. It was the twisted government of the time, Judiasm has always had it's ups and downs with government, just like all governments. This just happened to be a time when big changes were happening. Bear in mind, Americans have put people to death for no other reason than being black.

So you say the Jews have been set aside, but I don't understand what you mean exactly. Set aside for what?

It would seem that God certainly has his hand on the jewish race, as it is the ONLY race that has survived as long as it has without losing it's cultural identity. They simply don't assimilate. They are amazing, they have been conquered time and time again, only to survive... no, THRIVE in each culture that takes them over. The Babolonians did it, the persians did it... and this was even before Rome did it.

They have re-defined their religion time and time again (just as the christians have done), but each time they stay Jews. Societies tend to last 200 to 400 years, and that's only if their government is stable, and it never lasts if the society is moved into another society. Jews on the other hand... they have thrived in tiny numbers for thousands upon thousands of years, taken over by more cultures than... well any other culture in history as far as I know, and still they thrive AS Jews. God is certainly involved in their culture.

Paul did not make the separation between Jews and Christians. The Jews which rejected Christ as their Messiah did this, by beginning to persecute and kill those Jews, and gentile converts that did accept Christ as their Messiah. To the contrary, Paul taught that those who are in Christ are spiritual Israelites, the very seed of Abraham. Gentiles were graffed into the vine which is Christ, and the Jews who rejected Christ were cut off of the vine. The kingdom of God was taken away from the Jews which rejected Christ, and given to those Jews and gentiles producing the fruit of the same.

Matt 21:42-45 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


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apokalupsis
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 11:04:14 PM »

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

1) There are many sign posts that Israel is in trouble, They kill their Messiah .

And they were judged as promised in the OT by being scattered to the ends of the earth and being persecuted wherever they went. See Dueteronomy, Ezekiel, half the minor prophets, etc...

Same places also promised a regarthering however.

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

2) Then in Acts 3:19,20 , if they would repent , Jesus would come back per v20 , but they would not repent .

It didn't mean that Christ would return if they repented. The very next sentence said Jesus "must remain" in Heaven until the time came for the Father to "restore everything as He promised long ago".

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

3) Then in Acts 7 , they killed Stephen who said that they resisted the Holy Spirit in v 51 .

If everyone who resists the Holy Spirit is set ASIDE by God then we're all in trouble.

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

4) Here we have another sign post for us to see . In 1 Cor 13:8 .
5) Love never faileth , but whether there be prophecies , they shall fail ; whether there be tongues they shall cease , whether there be knowledge , it shall vanish away .
6) v9 we know in part , and we prophecy in part .
7) v10 , the perfection is the Bible, because we will have the MIND of Christ

Yeah, but... those verses don't actually say that, however. In fact, the context leads you to a different idea of what perfection is. The perfection comes when we see Christ "face to face" "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." -verse 12

When is then? Here: "When perfection comes"-verse 10

If you are going to take it literally when it says prophecy, tongues and knowledge will cease, then you must take it literally when it says perfection comes when we see him face to face. Thus... perfection comes at the end. Not when we receive the New Testament Scriptures.

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

12) Sign gifts were a witness to Israel and NOT for the Body of Christ .

But in the verse before chapter 13, and the verse after chapter 13, Paul told a Greek church (not a Jewish one) to eagerly seek the gift of prophecy. And then said:

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. -I Corinthians 14:22

He didn't make a distinction and say they are a sign to Jewish believers only. Sign gifts weren't specified to be for a particular group of people. Maybe they were for a particular time period, but I don't see where they were for a particular group.


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llewksgood
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 11:53:30 AM »

I still cannot believe that people argue that perfection is the Bible. Which translation do you mean?

Perfection must mean when the last enemy: death, is defeated, all things are put under his feet, and we are translated into his glorious kingdom where we shall know even as we are known. I simply cannot see it as anything less.


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Jimmy
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2009, 12:41:10 PM »

Quote from: dan p on February 25, 2009, 07:10:57 PM

Yes, someone will say that isn't so. I will say it. God has not set Israel aside. He has simply entered into a new covenant with Israel.


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2009, 12:41:10 PM »


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kensington
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2009, 12:44:49 PM »

He sent salvation first to the Jew and then the Gentiles... that is us, and the word is for them, and for us... they just need to receive it as The Word of God. Jesus as Messiah. Some will, some won't. Some gentiles will, some won't. I'm glad I did.


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 02:08:32 PM »

Quote from: kensington on March 01, 2009, 12:44:49 PM

Amen. I too am glad you did.


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dan p
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »

Quote from: Amo on February 26, 2009, 10:48:19 AM

Quote

I... didn't have time to look through all the versus but some things I wanted to point out -

your point number one - Jews alone didn't kill "their messiah" humanity did. Jews are not that far separated from Christians. Christianity came out of Judaism, the first Christians were in fact Jews. Paul is the one who separated the two into two different religions, before that it was a sect of Judaism.

You once again blame the entire Jewish race by saying they killed Stephen. Stephen was a Jew and he didn't kill himself. So here his christian brethren, and I'm sure there were many many other Jews who would not of put him to death. It was the twisted government of the time, Judaism has always had it's ups and downs with government, just like all governments. This just happened to be a time when big changes were happening. Bear in mind, Americans have put people to death for no other reason than being black.

So you say the Jews have been set aside, but I don't understand what you mean exactly. Set aside for what?

It would seem that God certainly has his hand on the Jewish race, as it is the ONLY race that has survived as long as it has without losing it's cultural identity. They simply don't assimilate. They are amazing, they have been conquered time and time again, only to survive... no, THRIVE in each culture that takes them over. The Babylonians did it, the Persians did it... and this was even before Rome did it.

They have re-defined their religion time and time again (just as the Christians have done), but each time they stay Jews. Societies tend to last 200 to 400 years, and that's only if their government is stable, and it never lasts if the society is moved into another society. Jews on the other hand... they have thrived in tiny numbers for thousands upon thousands of years, taken over by more cultures than... well any other culture in history as far as I know, and still they thrive AS Jews. God is certainly involved in their culture.

Paul did not make the separation between Jews and Christians. The Jews which rejected Christ as their Messiah did this, by beginning to persecute and kill those Jews, and gentile converts that did accept Christ as their Messiah. To the contrary, Paul taught that those who are in Christ are spiritual Israelites, the very seed of Abraham. Gentiles were grafted into the vine which is Christ, and the Jews who rejected Christ were cut off of the vine. The kingdom of God was taken away from the Jews which rejected Christ, and given to those Jews and gentiles producing the fruit of the same.

Matt 21:42-45 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

We know that Peter , accused them of killing Christ in Acts 2:36, and wee also know that He died for of man's sins.
1 ) How can any say that Christianity came out of Judaism , There message was different , and their foundation is different , and Paul laid the Christian foundation in 1 Cor 3:10-11 .

2) I have never seen a verse where we are Spiritual Israel , can you give one ?

3) Can you show that Gentiles are grafted into a vine , with a verse and find Gentiles in it ?


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »


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Amo
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 08:14:47 PM »

Quote

1) The plan of salvation has always been the same, and Christ has always been the center of it. When humanity fell, the sacrificial system was immediately established, which represented Christ. Thus Abel’s sacrifice was accepted, and Cain’s was rejected. The foundation has always been the same, Jesus Christ and Him crucified, and Him resurrected. Thus the Ten commandments, and the sacrificial system of the tabernacle, and temple of Israel. Now we as Christians, spiritual Israel, point back to the sacrifice which has already been made, Christ.

What does Israel mean but changed, born again. Jacob received the name after being converted, wrestling with God. He was changed from being the one who would obtain God’s spiritual blessing by cheating his brother out of the same by lying to his father, into the one who would obtain that blessing by faith in God, who he would not let go of, until he received the blessing of the same. That one Jacob wrestled with was Christ.

2) Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

3) Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 08:14:47 PM »


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deduction
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Re: Another sign post why Israel was set ASIDE .

« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 10:17:04 PM »

Quote from: dan p on March 02, 2009, 06:40:22 PM

Quote from: Amo on February 26, 2009, 10:48:19 AM

Quote

Paul did not make the separation between Jews and Christians. The Jews which rejected Christ as their Messiah did this, by beginning to persecute and kill those Jews, and gentile converts that did accept Christ as their Messiah. To the contrary, Paul taught that those who are in Christ are spiritual Israelites, the very seed of Abraham. Gentiles were grafted into the vine which is Christ, and the Jews who rejected Christ were cut off of the vine. The kingdom of God was taken away from the Jews which rejected Christ, and given to those Jews and gentiles producing the fruit of the same.

Matt 21:42-45 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

I'm saying it, christianity came out of judiasm. We accept the old testament don't we? There you go, case closed. God chose the Jews first to be his people, Christ was a Jew, Out of the Jewish culture that Christ claimed as his very own came the christians.


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