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Author Topic: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...  (Read 22345 times)

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Offline l.a.providence

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For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #1 on: Sun Aug 29, 2010 - 23:46:06 »
James 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

James 1:14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

There is consequence to sin.

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #1 on: Sun Aug 29, 2010 - 23:46:06 »

Offline ela

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #2 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 01:25:31 »
For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??


God will not blame the children born out of self-will....however, unfortunately, these kids will have to shoulder some of the sin that is pasted to the 3rd and 4th generation. My great-grandfather had another family in the next town at the same time he was married and had children with my great-grandmother....we, the descendants have suffered because of his sin....now it is our job to work that sin OUT of our family. Unfortunately, the children born of his mistress have had to shoulder his sin too. There is such long range destruction that can happen by one person making their choices.

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #2 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 01:25:31 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #3 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 08:18:14 »
For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??


God will not blame the children born out of self-will....however, unfortunately, these kids will have to shoulder some of the sin that is pasted to the 3rd and 4th generation. My great-grandfather had another family in the next town at the same time he was married and had children with my great-grandmother....we, the descendants have suffered because of his sin....now it is our job to work that sin OUT of our family. Unfortunately, the children born of his mistress have had to shoulder his sin too. There is such long range destruction that can happen by one person making their choices.


 Ela that so so true. My grandfather and father both had affairs, and I believe that we have all suffered because of their sins(my poor brother has had 2 wives who were unfaithful). However Jesus can cut us off from that and he did become a curse for us.
Children are a natural result of a sperm meeting an egg, the way that God designed it, and some are conceived in marriage but many not. I read an amazing book about a Christian married women with 2 children who was raped, and when she found out she was pregnant, she and her husband decided to keep the child and bring it up as their own. The story is one of healing and restoration, and shows what amazing things Jesus can do to bring such good out of tradegy and pain.

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #3 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 08:18:14 »
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Offline alive_n_christ

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #4 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 13:58:05 »
Children born out of the act of fornication, are just as special to God as children born within wedlock.  Every human being is special in the eyes of God.  For he has created us all.  This does not mean that he condones fornication because his word makes it plain to us that he does not condone fornication.  However, those who commit fornication still have souls that are of value to God and their children they conceive through that fornicated act are of value to God.

Matthew 10:29-31~~Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

It is not God's will that any perish.
John 3:16-17~~For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2Peter 3:9~~The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #4 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 13:58:05 »



Offline gospel

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #5 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 14:33:59 »
For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??


People often make the mistake of asserting God is control of everything and God is the creator of everything...

This is the kind of nonsense handed down through tradition and religion and sadly
nothing at at all to do with what the bible shows us

To the contrary

God IS NOT in control of everything
God IS NOT the creator of everything

God being a free will God incorporated free will into His Creation. He set natural and spiritual laws and principles into place and into motion, so there are boundaries for each however...

Everything that is not of the character of God came into the world with and through The Nature of Sin,
The Nature of Sin came into the world through Adam but it's source is Satan

God is Truth and Truth is God .....Truth cannot create lying, therefore lying is a perversion of Truth

The principle is this...Satan cannot create, he can only take that which has been created by God for one use and pervert it for his crooked, twisted, use

Lying is not a creation it is a perversion

Here's another...

God is Light...there is no darkness in Him ( 1 John 1:15, James 1:17 ),

Light cannot produce or create darkness!

Even basic science makes that self evident....darkness cannot come out of light!

Darkness is an absence of Light...hence cast out of God's presence, Satan dwells in, is the lord and ruler of the place where there is a total absence of God

Darkness is not a creation, hatred is not a creation, violence is not a creation, death and sickness ARE NOT CREATIONS

THEY ARE PERVERSIONS OF GOD'S CREATION

But Tradition and religion wrongly lay so much of these at God's feet

Fear is a perversion of Faith for
Fear is the exact opposite of Faith
Fear is of Satan, it is impossible to please Satan outside of fear, FEAR IS SATAN'S CHARACTER AND NATURE....listen to the news, cl;early you can see Satan's job is to seduce the whole world into the bondage of fear!

For out of fear people make ungodly unwise choices and decisions....get it?

Genesis 3:10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid

Adam disobeyed God because Satan convinced him that God did not have his best interest at heart, in other words Adam disobeyed God out of fear that God did not want the best for him and did not mean him well  

When Adam submitted to Satan he took on Satan's nature...FEAR


Paraphrasing, in verse 11 God asked Adam, "who have you been talking to?"

He knew that Adam's fear and knowledge of sin came though some form of fellowship with darkness. He knew Adam's conversation was not of the Nature of which He was Created

On the other hand ..Without faith is is impossible to please God Hebrews 11:6

All that stated

Jesus is the Perfect reflection and the Perfect demonstration of The Character and the Will of God

Therefore in His earthly ministry Jesus destroyed sickness, death, blindness and every malignancy...everything Jesus destroyed were works of Satan ( 1 John 3:8 )

In other words

HE DEMONSTRATED THE TRUE CHARACTER OF GOD!

In other words Jesus clearly demonstrated that GOD HAS NO PLEASURE OR TOLERANCE FOR  

SICKNESS, DEATH, DISEASE, POVERTY, VIOLENCE OR HATRED all these and everything associated with these are in the world THROUGH SIN and not through God!

So in answer to your post....

Jesus Loves the little children ALL OF THEM!

To Jesus there is no illegitimate child!

Genesis 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 16:07:43 by gospel »

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #5 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 14:33:59 »

Offline candy

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #6 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 14:57:11 »
Thank you Gospel for that amazing and truthful post above.  I hope you don't mind if I print it.  I think it's so beautiful and well put that I want to place it in my collection.

Thanks again,
Love, Candy

Offline l.a.providence

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #7 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 15:23:21 »
didn't God say, 'i knew you before you were born'....i was fearfully and wonderfully made...

this seems contrary to the posts above?

that there can be no mistakes....but your posts indicate that sin produced results...

Offline gospel

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #8 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 16:10:24 »
didn't God say, 'i knew you before you were born'....i was fearfully and wonderfully made...

this seems contrary to the posts above?

that there can be no mistakes....but your posts indicate that sin produced results...

Whatever do you mean?

Please clarify your question as it relates to Psalm 139... the Psalm you are citing

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #8 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 16:10:24 »

Offline gospel

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #9 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 16:11:24 »
Thank you Gospel for that amazing and truthful post above.  I hope you don't mind if I print it.  I think it's so beautiful and well put that I want to place it in my collection.

Thanks again,
Love, Candy

Thanks Candy ...All glory and honor to God!

Offline comfy

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #10 on: Mon Aug 30, 2010 - 21:09:11 »
I believe God is in control: "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7) I see that if God were not in all-control, there would be concerns not to cast on Him. We might be told to cast on Him only things He can control. But it says to cast "all" ::smile::

And I thought of an argument against this, but I can't remember it, now  ::cryingtears::

I'd rather do without that argument, anyway.

Offline ela

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #11 on: Tue Aug 31, 2010 - 00:27:12 »
I believe God is in control: "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7) I see that if God were not in all-control, there would be concerns not to cast on Him. We might be told to cast on Him only things He can control. But it says to cast "all" ::smile::

And I thought of an argument against this, but I can't remember it, now  ::cryingtears::

I'd rather do without that argument, anyway.

I think that being in control can mean something other then we think....or it can mean different things at least. I work with kids, sometimes as a nanny....I consider myself in control when I am working with them but they still make choices and go into the play room or downstairs or into their own room all on their own without me orchestrating everymove or without them asking me or telling me everything they are going to do. 

I think this is what God does. He has over all control, but He doesn't micro-manage. He is not a puppet master or tyrant....but He does have overall control.

Offline Replevin

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #12 on: Tue Aug 31, 2010 - 07:02:41 »
     I think that the question is larger than just children born out of wedlock. Every child born on the planet could be considered a " Plan B child " if a person wants to look at things that way. The choice was made to allow the human race to continue after Adam sinned and also with Noah's generation. Consider that after Adam fell into sin , we all are plan B until we turn back to The Lord. Even then we are in a process of restoration.

     I think it is taking it too far to say that we were not planned. But I do think that we were not planned to be born into sin. But that is the state that we all find ourselves in , not just children born out of wedlock. But there is a plan for restoration through Jesus.

    I agree with what one poster mentioned. We sow what we reap. Sometimes we reap some of what our parents sowed. The right thing to do is repent and co operate with the plan set in motion to restore those who believe including children born out of wedlock.

       

Offline phoebe

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #13 on: Tue Aug 31, 2010 - 08:01:36 »
For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??


You ask the wrong question.

Children born out of wedlock are a consequence of someone else's sin.  The "mistake" would have been in the action that brought about a baby, not the baby itself.

What does that mean to the believer, to the one committing the sin?

It means that all things work together for good for those who love God, for those who are called according to HIS purpose.

We mess up, tragedies happen, God will make it work for Him--if they are believers.  That's all it means.

Offline comfy

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #14 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 22:58:13 »
Children born out of wedlock are a consequence of someone else's sin.  The "mistake" would have been in the action that brought about a baby, not the baby itself.
Yes, the mistake is what people did. But ones can view the child as being a mistake because they consider the child to be a threat to their independence to do as they please.

Offline l.a.providence

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #15 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 19:14:55 »
When someone begins any suffering experience, they start asking questions? :  like why did this happen to me?
so they start analyzing, coming up with reasons and blame either Satan, themselves, or God...

i lay in a bed for 7 years wondering ....why.....in my 20's..

yes, i came up with several mistakes i made.... and yes, there was the one mistake that made it all happen...

however, i found that continually blaming myself and the guilt from it was not God's plan...

God eventually told me and continually tells me the reason why this occured, and it all began with God...
God had a plan that i lay there.... yes, i made a mistake but his plan was from the beginning....


Man makes his steps, yes, but the Lord is behind them all!!  that i'm convinced of


and if you're saying, what about murder?...well, LOVE is God's totality, if God chooses to murder someone to create a bigger picture and show his great mercy to the world in some way we're not used to then so be it...

God created charles manson too....maybe millions were allowed to think and change because of his insane reality...


yes, this is a valicious statement and i'm not for manson or hitler, but remember God killed babies etc in the old testament for some reason we may not ever understand except in the end to bring glory to JESUS CHRIST his only begotton son and create love on the earth and one day a new heavens and a new earth.

Offline canuck

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #16 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 17:11:12 »
For that matter is God over everything?....the bible says, 'a man leads a way but the lord determines his steps'.

so is God leading men into fornication and adultery?

before you answer, is there a bigger picture than the typical religious answer?  free will

is there really a universal law that God can't cross and why?

who said our God couldn't think of a bigger picture than our minds can fathom...

before you answer, 'free will' , then that must mean some children are 'mistakes'...??


It is God who gives conception and it is God who closes the womb (permanently or temporarily). So if some woman conceives, it is God who grants it -- though He may not necessarily be approving the sexual relations involved.

canuck

Offline gospel

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #17 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 19:32:06 »
When someone begins any suffering experience, they start asking questions? :  like why did this happen to me?
so they start analyzing, coming up with reasons and blame either Satan, themselves, or God...

i lay in a bed for 7 years wondering ....why.....in my 20's..

yes, i came up with several mistakes i made.... and yes, there was the one mistake that made it all happen...

however, i found that continually blaming myself and the guilt from it was not God's plan...

God eventually told me and continually tells me the reason why this occured, and it all began with God...
God had a plan that i lay there.... yes, i made a mistake but his plan was from the beginning....


Man makes his steps, yes, but the Lord is behind them all!!  that i'm convinced of


and if you're saying, what about murder?...well, LOVE is God's totality, if God chooses to murder someone to create a bigger picture and show his great mercy to the world in some way we're not used to then so be it...

God created charles manson too....maybe millions were allowed to think and change because of his insane reality...


yes, this is a valicious statement and i'm not for manson or hitler, but remember God killed babies etc in the old testament for some reason we may not ever understand except in the end to bring glory to JESUS CHRIST his only begotton son and create love on the earth and one day a new heavens and a new earth.


Wrong!!!

God did not create everything

He certainly did not create anything bad nor did he create anyone to be evil

I've stated this many times....

The mistake is founded within the false presumption that everything that exists is a created thing

The devil cannot create, he can only take that which is created and twist and pervert it for his own purposes, creating if you will, the illusion that the perverted thing is the real thing...when in fact it is only a deception

So .....

Some things are perversions of a created thing

A lie is not a created thing....a lie is the perversion of the Truth,

God did not create death He created Life hence.....death is a perversion of Life

Darkness is not a created thing....it is merely the absence of Light


Notice: God is Truth, God is Life God is Light......see? ::shrug::



Offline l.a.providence

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #18 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 19:36:43 »
God did not create everything?

satan came from God.....he created satan....and actually, if my name was lucifer, i just might stand a greater chance of rebellion or sin..
he was created that way... because this whole thing is a story...and a beautiful story in the end.

God doesn't give one person a greater chance over another.....for salvation etc..

Offline gospel

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #19 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 19:48:08 »
God did not create everything?

satan came from God.....he created satan....and actually, if my name was lucifer, i just might stand a greater chance of rebellion or sin..
he was created that way... because this whole thing is a story...and a beautiful story in the end.

God doesn't give one person a greater chance over another.....for salvation etc..



You're missing what I'm saying


OF COURSE God created everything

But everything that exists IS NOT AS GOD CREATED IT!

God did not create evil, there is no evil in God, there is no evil in heaven Satan chose to defy God, to rebel against God and  to act outside of the purpose for which he was created

That was the first perversion, that was the first lie


God did not Create death, there is no death in heaven, there is no death in God so where would he get it..... death is the character and nature of Satan

For the literal meaning of death is that of spiritual death which is the absence of God and separation from God

That my friend is not a creation it is a perversion of Life






Offline l.a.providence

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Re: Are children born out of wedlock a mistake or is God a part of it?...
« Reply #20 on: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 14:16:30 »
yes, but God knew the devil from the beginning from before he was born, right?
before he was created i mean?

he was fearfully and wonderfully made....
why does there have to be a runt in the litter?

God may have had a plan for satan?