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Author Topic: Are preachers and pastors the same thing?  (Read 2686 times)
Johnb
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 08:08:44 AM »

Quote Jimmy
You would be hard pressed to find concept nor the word for the modern day "church" in the NT.
 
Yes and I usually use the term assembly because that is what is in the NT.  While I do not believe the IC is sinful I do not believe it is commanded and in many cases is a stumbling block to the kingdom of God.
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 08:08:44 AM »

 
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 08:16:52 AM »

Quote Jimmy
You would be hard pressed to find concept nor the word for the modern day "church" in the NT.
 
Yes and I usually use the term assembly because that is what is in the NT.  While I do not believe the IC is sinful I do not believe it is commanded and in many cases is a stumbling block to the kingdom of God.

What does your Bible read in Matthew 16:18...My reads Jesus saying "I will build my church"
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 08:16:52 AM »

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Jimmy
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 08:27:01 AM »

Quote Jimmy
You would be hard pressed to find concept nor the word for the modern day "church" in the NT.
 
Yes and I usually use the term assembly because that is what is in the NT.  While I do not believe the IC is sinful I do not believe it is commanded and in many cases is a stumbling block to the kingdom of God.

What is the IC?
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Johnb
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 08:44:25 AM »

Although I have decided to ignore you bibleteacher I will answer this for the benefit of others.  The word translated "church" in Matt 16:18 is the plural form of EKKLESIA (assembly) has noting to do with the IC catholic or otherwise.

Jimmy
 IC is institutional church.
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Tantor
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 09:28:54 AM »

I haven't seen you post a single truth yet... so I do not see your point.
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Bonnie
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2009, 09:33:28 AM »

Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?


Not every preacher is called to be a Pastor. As you said they have different callings.
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2009, 09:33:28 AM »

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Tantor
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2009, 09:36:47 AM »

I view most classifications of church leadership positions to be totally dependent on the affirmation of God's calling and bestowing of gifts on potential candidates.

As such.. there is no such thing as a self proclaimed minister... nor is their such thing as a salaried career 'professional' pastor, etc.

God gives us gifts as needed.. almost always on a temporary basis.  Those that seek to work in the ministry should seek to do so on a gift by gift basis to affirm their calling... allowing them to collect a salary is to deny the Holy Spirits leading of the church.

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Bonnie
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2009, 09:46:30 AM »

I agree with you there, Tantor.
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By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.  Hebrews 11:8,10
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as separate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Because one is paid, and the other spreads the gospel message for free (no salary).
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Greater is He Who is in you, than he who is in the world
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »

 
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Johnb
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2009, 11:01:45 AM »

Tantor
Yes I agree.  I also think you and anyone with half a brain know my ignoring bibleteacher has nothing to do with him teaching "truth".
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2009, 11:01:45 AM »

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dubj
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2009, 12:13:02 PM »

I believe that the church has been given pastors (elders) and evangelists. they are different posistions. the church in the new testament have both. why do we find only one or the other in some denominations? i would submit that if a church was truly seeking to follow the bible it wouldnt stray from these commands. some people mistake the word elder to mean older people in the church but elders have specific qualifications (1 timothy 3:1-7).  in order to correctly follow the bible's commands we must attend the right church. if a church is not structured in this way how is it right? also we never see the word reverend anywhere other than psalms 111:9 and it is referring to God so why do modern day assemblies have reverends?
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2009, 12:31:53 PM »

They're different things in the Bible.

There, a preacher is simply one who proclaims a message - a herald.  This person didn't create messages, or interpret them, or apply them for the listener.  He simply did the town crier thing - "Hear Ye! Hear Ye!"

Each church had a number of pastors - they were older members of the church who looked over the younger members, mentoring them and correcting them as necessary.  This person may have engaged in personal teaching, but they did not stand up before the congregation and give a sermon the way we think of it.

The sermon (oratio) didn't exist in the early church, which was modeled after synagogue.  Rather, each week there was a public reading of a passage of Scripture.  After this, the person reading (an elder in the church, this duty rotated among the elders) would give their interpretation and/or application of what was read.  Then, the other members of the church would, by turns, add their comments or disagreement, or alternate interpretation, and the church would discuss it.

The aim of such a discussion was not necessarily for everyone to agree about the meaning or doctrine.  Rather, it was for everyone to increase in learning about the Scripture in passage, which included interpretations other than what they held.

Jarrod
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2009, 12:49:25 PM »

Acts 20:7 sounds like a sermon.  The ESV says "speech", not discussion.  (Not saying the discussion idea is wrong, just saying it sounds like sermons existed as well)
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2009, 12:49:25 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2009, 07:11:50 PM »

Acts 20:7 sounds like a sermon.  The ESV says "speech", not discussion.  (Not saying the discussion idea is wrong, just saying it sounds like sermons existed as well)
The Greek word for preaching the verse is dialegomai (dialogue) which involves people conversing with each other.
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2009, 11:43:49 PM »

In the New Testament, there are three words translated 'preach' which primarily occur in the context of evangelistic preaching.  We often hear 'preach' used to describe the teaching and exhortation done in church meetings.  I think 'teaching' or 'exhortation' is more in line with what we see in New Testament translations about this activity.

In a lot of churches, there is the concept of 'the preacher'-- a clergyman whose job it is to talk on Sunday morning.  We have to realize that a lot of our concepts come from tradition rather than scripture.  In the Bible, 'every one of you' could present a teaching in church.  From scripture we can see that the early church had a somewhat open floor in their meetings.  Some members were gifted with prophecy and were allowed to prophesy in church.  Paul presented a church meeting in which 'all prophesy' as an example of a good church meeting.  Those gifted to teach are to teach.  One does not have to be a 'clergyman' to do these things.  And from scripture it seems that multiple speakers would speak in one meeting, rather than everyone sitting and listening to just one preacher every single week.

Leadership was plural as well with a group of elders being charged with tending one church.  All elders are to be apt to teach.  Those who devote themselves to 'preaching and teaching' are to be especially honored.  Notice that 'teaching' is not a requirement for being an elder, but teaching is.  Elders are instructed to pastor (translated feed or tend) in Acts 20:28 and I Peter 5.  Teaching is something believers need.  Unbelievers, primarily, need 'preaching.'  It is good if elders minister in this regard.  But the requirement is that elders be able to teach believers.
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