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Author Topic: Are preachers and pastors the same thing?  (Read 2692 times)
dubj
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« on: June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM »
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?
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« on: June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM »
 
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 10:54:02 PM »
1 Timothy 5:17ff says that there are some elders (pastors) whose work/job/career is directing the affairs of the church, preaching and teaching.  Nothing wrong with calling those men "pastor."
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 10:54:02 PM »
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2009, 10:56:11 PM »
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?
Evangelists have a particular job to do - proclaim the Gospel to those who do not know God. Pastors' have as their (primary) function the maturing of the community into Christlike people. This is why pastors are entrusted with the responsibility to protect, nurture, and ensure the continuation of the faith.
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 12:39:07 AM »
How many "preachers" do you know that just "preach?"  Why does an "evangelist" spend most of his time "evangelizing" the already "evangelized?" (Broad generalization here, but you get my point.)
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 06:32:35 AM »
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?

Your quote of Acts20:28 is incorrect; it reads Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

It says the whole flock is to heed to the authority of the Bishops who rule God's church. This was written in the first century, and the Bishops are the Catholic Bishops.

A pastor is a Priest or Bishop. Evangelists are either clerics or lay people who spread the Faith.

There are 10s ofd 1000s of man-made religions in the world today that purport to be Christian, but they are not Christian. God has nothing to do with the preachers or pastors or bishops in these religions.



Who gave you authority to judge what is right and what is not?

How do we know for certain if you are even saved?

Do you currently take any prescription medication?

Do you feel that God only is speaking to you?

What is the name of the Church you attend and where is it located?

How long have you thought that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Can you prove the Bible you read from is better than other translations?

Do you hear voices speaking to you at times?
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Johnb
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 06:51:44 AM »
There were no "preachers" in the Greek they were evangelist (completely different than our modern day preachers)
There also were no bishops in the Greek it was placed in the KJV by order of the king.   A pastor is a spiritual guide that watches out for our soul.  He was appointed by the Holy Spirit not by men and it was not an office.  The modern day preacher in many cases attemps to fill the role of a pastor and not an evangelist.  However, as Gary points out in some cases a preacher attemps to evangelize the already saved every Sunday.  Just my take on the OP.   
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 06:51:44 AM »
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Jimmy
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2009, 07:07:21 AM »
Quote from: Johnb on June 24, 2009, 06:51:44 AM
There were no "preachers" in the Greek they were evangelist (completely different than our modern day preachers)
There also were no bishops in the Greek it was placed in the KJV by order of the king.   A pastor is a spiritual guide that watches out for our soul.  He was appointed by the Holy Spirit not by men and it was not an office.  The modern day preacher in many cases attemps to fill the role of a pastor and not an evangelist.  However, as Gary points out in some cases a preacher attemps to evangelize the already saved every Sunday.  Just my take on the OP.   

Rom 10:14  How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

1Ti 2:7  And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

2Ti 1:11  for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

2Pe 2:5  and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

From Strong's:
G2784
κηρύσσω
kērussō
kay-roos'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 07:20:23 AM »
Quote from: HRoberson on June 23, 2009, 10:56:11 PM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?
Evangelists have a particular job to do - proclaim the Gospel to those who do not know God. Pastors' have as their (primary) function the maturing of the community into Christlike people. This is why pastors are entrusted with the responsibility to protect, nurture, and ensure the continuation of the faith.
I believe this is the correct answer.  And for Baptists, a preacher functions somewhere in between the two, usually traveling from church to church, and he may or may not have a home church.

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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 07:24:23 AM »
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Quote from: Linkoln on June 24, 2009, 06:32:35 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?

Your quote of Acts20:28 is incorrect; it reads Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

It says the whole flock is to heed to the authority of the Bishops who rule God's church. This was written in the first century, and the Bishops are the Catholic Bishops.

A pastor is a Priest or Bishop. Evangelists are either clerics or lay people who spread the Faith.

There are 10s ofd 1000s of man-made religions in the world today that purport to be Christian, but they are not Christian. God has nothing to do with the preachers or pastors or bishops in these religions.



Who gave you authority to judge what is right and what is not?

How do we know for certain if you are even saved?

Do you currently take any prescription medication?

Do you feel that God only is speaking to you?

What is the name of the Church you attend and where is it located?

How long have you thought that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Can you prove the Bible you read from is better than other translations?

Do you hear voices speaking to you at times?



Are you suggesting that I do not have the right to judge what is true or not? The Lord instucts us to test (judge) the spirits. 1Jn:4:1:
Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Bible says Jesus is the Judge of who is saved or not. If you have judged yourself saved, your only deceiving yourself.

Unlike yourself, I do not require prescription medicine

I've always thought Jesus is right, and those who make up their own religions and gods are wrong

Obviously the only true Bibles are the ones that are given by the Church that Jesus personally started

Again, unlike yourself, I do not hear voices speaking at times  Smile

Funny thing here.  There is nothing in all of the Bible about the Roman Catholic Church.  Probably few are any more guilty of making "up their own religions and gods" than the RCC.

And the only true Bible is the one given by the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 07:24:23 AM »
 
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Johnb
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 07:27:38 AM »
Jimmy as I said there is no "preacher" in the Greek.  There is one who hearlds or proclaims the good news.  That is an evangelist.  There is no "preacher"  that is a modern day English term that refers to one who stands in a pulpit and "preach" to the already saved while everyone else fellowships with the back of their brothers head.  

Netheir the concept nor the word for a modern day "preacher" is found in the NT.
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 07:27:38 AM »
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Johnb
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 07:30:42 AM »
bibleteacher
You listen to neither logic, facts or reason and belief you communicte directly with God therefore I choose to ignore you.
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Jimmy
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 07:41:42 AM »
Quote from: Johnb on June 24, 2009, 07:27:38 AM
Jimmy as I said there is no "preacher" in the Greek.  There is one who hearlds or proclaims the good news.  That is an evangelist.  There is no "preacher"  that is a modern day English term that refers to one who stands in a pulpit and "preach" to the already saved while everyone else fellowships with the back of their brothers head.  

Netheir the concept nor the word for a modern day "preacher" is found in the NT.

I agree that there were the two fundamental leadership roles of preaching the gospel to the lost (evangelist)and teaching the saints (elders/pasters/shepherds/bishops).  There is nothing in the NT that precludes anyone from doing both.  In some cases the elders were most likely the teachers of the saints.  But I am certain that many of those also were evangelists as well.

You would be hard pressed to find concept nor the word for the modern day "church" in the NT.
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Jimmy
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 07:48:34 AM »
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:32:46 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 24, 2009, 07:24:23 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Quote from: Linkoln on June 24, 2009, 06:32:35 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?

Your quote of Acts20:28 is incorrect; it reads Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

It says the whole flock is to heed to the authority of the Bishops who rule God's church. This was written in the first century, and the Bishops are the Catholic Bishops.

A pastor is a Priest or Bishop. Evangelists are either clerics or lay people who spread the Faith.

There are 10s ofd 1000s of man-made religions in the world today that purport to be Christian, but they are not Christian. God has nothing to do with the preachers or pastors or bishops in these religions.



Who gave you authority to judge what is right and what is not?

How do we know for certain if you are even saved?

Do you currently take any prescription medication?

Do you feel that God only is speaking to you?

What is the name of the Church you attend and where is it located?

How long have you thought that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Can you prove the Bible you read from is better than other translations?

Do you hear voices speaking to you at times?



Are you suggesting that I do not have the right to judge what is true or not? The Lord instucts us to test (judge) the spirits. 1Jn:4:1:
Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Bible says Jesus is the Judge of who is saved or not. If you have judged yourself saved, your only deceiving yourself.

Unlike yourself, I do not require prescription medicine

I've always thought Jesus is right, and those who make up their own religions and gods are wrong

Obviously the only true Bibles are the ones that are given by the Church that Jesus personally started

Again, unlike yourself, I do not hear voices speaking at times  Smile

Funny thing here.  There is nothing in all of the Bible about the Roman Catholic Church.  Probably few are any more guilty of making "up their own religions and gods" than the RCC.

And the only true Bible is the one given by the Holy Spirit.

Jimmy, the Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His own Church 2000 years ago. It also plainly reads that Jesus sent His Churchj to teach all people, til the end of the world.

Obviously you've decided it is not necessary to seek out the Church that Jesus started and sent to teach all people. I assure you that those who believe in Jesus and want to be a Christian do seek out the Church He started.

Why would any Christian want to follow the religions that Luther, or Joe smith, or John Smyth made up?

Matt28:16-20
16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17  And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.
18  And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
19  Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

BTW - When Jesus sent His Church to teach all people, it includes teaching all people the name of His CHurch.

You won't find Jesus telling the Church to write a bible and pass it out  Rolling on floor laughing

Obviously you think the organization run by some "popes" and "bishops" is His Church.  It is not.

The "Church"  is the body of Christ.  The "Church" is composed of the saints.

BTW.  When you find an example in the Gospels of Jesus "sending His Church" anywhere  or "telling the Church" anything, could you please point that out?
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 07:48:34 AM »
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zoonance
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 07:55:04 AM »
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Quote from: Linkoln on June 24, 2009, 06:32:35 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?

Your quote of Acts20:28 is incorrect; it reads Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

It says the whole flock is to heed to the authority of the Bishops who rule God's church. This was written in the first century, and the Bishops are the Catholic Bishops.

A pastor is a Priest or Bishop. Evangelists are either clerics or lay people who spread the Faith.

There are 10s ofd 1000s of man-made religions in the world today that purport to be Christian, but they are not Christian. God has nothing to do with the preachers or pastors or bishops in these religions.



Who gave you authority to judge what is right and what is not?

How do we know for certain if you are even saved?

Do you currently take any prescription medication?

Do you feel that God only is speaking to you?

What is the name of the Church you attend and where is it located?

How long have you thought that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Can you prove the Bible you read from is better than other translations?

Do you hear voices speaking to you at times?



Are you suggesting that I do not have the right to judge what is true or not? The Lord instucts us to test (judge) the spirits. 1Jn:4:1:
Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Bible says Jesus is the Judge of who is saved or not. If you have judged yourself saved, your only deceiving yourself.

Unlike yourself, I do not require prescription medicine

I've always thought Jesus is right, and those who make up their own religions and gods are wrong

Obviously the only true Bibles are the ones that are given by the Church that Jesus personally started

Again, unlike yourself, I do not hear voices speaking at times  Smile






You will find that if someone disagrees with you (especially if all you do is quote what the scripture says) then you will be asked "who gives you the right?"  or "who made you judge?"  which usually could be interpreted as "I have the right" or "I was made the judge"      However, someone can disagree and be accurate!   And, it is entirely possible that I am wrong.
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 07:57:14 AM »
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:52:09 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 24, 2009, 07:48:34 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:32:46 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 24, 2009, 07:24:23 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
Quote from: Linkoln on June 24, 2009, 06:32:35 AM
Quote from: bibleteacher on June 24, 2009, 06:11:04 AM
Quote from: dubj on June 23, 2009, 10:40:53 PM
Christ gave the church the following: "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shephards), and teachers" --Eph. 4:11

Evangelists and pastors are mentioned here as seperate, so why does the majority of the religious world use them interchangeably?

Paul gave specific instructions to the elders at Ephesus to "Take care of yourselves and all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops, to pastor the church of God." ( Acts 20:17, 28) No where does the bible authorize such instructions to evangelists. Not to say that evangelists cannot do pastoral work as Christians but only that they cannot as part of their evangelistic office. In other words should we call our preachers "pastor" or not?

Your quote of Acts20:28 is incorrect; it reads Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

It says the whole flock is to heed to the authority of the Bishops who rule God's church. This was written in the first century, and the Bishops are the Catholic Bishops.

A pastor is a Priest or Bishop. Evangelists are either clerics or lay people who spread the Faith.

There are 10s ofd 1000s of man-made religions in the world today that purport to be Christian, but they are not Christian. God has nothing to do with the preachers or pastors or bishops in these religions.



Who gave you authority to judge what is right and what is not?

How do we know for certain if you are even saved?

Do you currently take any prescription medication?

Do you feel that God only is speaking to you?

What is the name of the Church you attend and where is it located?

How long have you thought that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

Can you prove the Bible you read from is better than other translations?

Do you hear voices speaking to you at times?



Are you suggesting that I do not have the right to judge what is true or not? The Lord instucts us to test (judge) the spirits. 1Jn:4:1:
Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Bible says Jesus is the Judge of who is saved or not. If you have judged yourself saved, your only deceiving yourself.

Unlike yourself, I do not require prescription medicine

I've always thought Jesus is right, and those who make up their own religions and gods are wrong

Obviously the only true Bibles are the ones that are given by the Church that Jesus personally started

Again, unlike yourself, I do not hear voices speaking at times  Smile

Funny thing here.  There is nothing in all of the Bible about the Roman Catholic Church.  Probably few are any more guilty of making "up their own religions and gods" than the RCC.

And the only true Bible is the one given by the Holy Spirit.

Jimmy, the Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His own Church 2000 years ago. It also plainly reads that Jesus sent His Churchj to teach all people, til the end of the world.

Obviously you've decided it is not necessary to seek out the Church that Jesus started and sent to teach all people. I assure you that those who believe in Jesus and want to be a Christian do seek out the Church He started.

Why would any Christian want to follow the religions that Luther, or Joe smith, or John Smyth made up?

Matt28:16-20
16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17  And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.
18  And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
19  Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

BTW - When Jesus sent His Church to teach all people, it includes teaching all people the name of His CHurch.

You won't find Jesus telling the Church to write a bible and pass it out  Rolling on floor laughing

Obviously you think the organization run by some "popes" and "bishops" is His Church.  It is not.

The "Church"  is the body of Christ.  The "Church" is composed of the saints.

BTW.  When you find an example in the Gospels of Jesus "sending His Church" anywhere  or "telling the Church" anything, could you please point that out?

The Bible plainly reads that Jesus sent His Church to teach all people; the Bible doesn't read that Jesus sent you and your opinions of what His Church is, therefore your opinions are simply moot.

Jesus did say that some people will refuse to believe His Church, you simply happen to be of them

Just present the scripture to back up what you are saying.  You are the one giving "opinions".  You haven't supported a single thing you claim.

Present the scripture that "plainly reads that Jesus sent His Church to teach all people".  You have been seriously mislead in what the Bible teaches about His Church.  Forget all that RCC stuff and just look to the Bible.
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