:)  :p  :D  :)  ;)

See, I am not mean.  I am going around spreading love and joy!

Someone suggested we should get back to the original topic of "Are there saved in every church."  I do not think we got off topic because to answer the question we must know what the church is and how to get in it.

Has anyone found out where you can find the scriptural plan of salvation I mentioned a while back?  I even said you all were so close if it was a snake it would have bitten you.  Go to the homepage of GCM and click at the top where it tells you how to be saved/a Christian.  Now, unless I am just a dense fool it seems to me that is the BIBLICAL plan of salvation.  The saved are the church and no one else.  So, if you are not doing what the Bible says to do to "be saved" or "get in the church" you are not in the church.  Nor is any so called "church" that does not practice the biblical plan of salvation (how we are in the church/in Christ) a church in God's eyes.

Having said this, booty leave MASouth alone.  You obviously have contradicted yourself so many times and constantly refused to fill my box in regarding how to be saved you have forfeited the right to complain against anyone who questions your beliefs.  Since this is a COC BOARD with the  SCRIPTURAL PLAN OFSALVATION at the top of its homepage, why should MASouth and I leave our own board?  If you have problems with what the scriptures teach go to a church that teaches what you want to hear and explain it to God on judgement day.

I have not had a chance to speak with my one cup friend yet, but I know what he thinks about the plan of salvation and those who refuse to follow it.  I doubt seriously if he starts a Bible believing church in your town he is  going to be interested in your offers to help.  In fact, knowing him, he will probably come in your church assembly and take you on right there while you are in the pulpit. If you refuse to prove from the scriptures what you believe he will announce  disfellowship and tell your congregation you are a false teacher and that  anyone who follows you after knowing the truth will face judgement to your and their faces.    He will not be scared of the little "Elihus" either.

Booty,

EXACTLY!!  We ARE sinners, and the moment we realize that, the moment we see that we still are sinners, then we can see people as God would have us to see them.  In need of grace as we are.  So many times we want to quantify how much is too much.  "We are not sinners, sure we commit sin, we "Slip", we "Stumble", but we are not sinners".  If I smoke one cigarette a day, am I not still a smoker?  YES, anyone one of you would say that I am.  We are sinners, saved by grace!  "Therefore there is now NO condemnation..."  We stand condemned this very day if it weren't for Christ.  There is not one day in my life that I do not separate myself from God by my actions, but I know that I am His, through His grace!  No Condemnation.....AMEN!

Shumby,

All versions have Paul using the present tense, so that is how I read it.  Paul says, "I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners (not ONCE the worst of sinners), Christ might display his unlimited patience..."  Christ did not display it once, but continues to do so.  Christ displays patience because we are a mess and are in CONSTANT need of his forgiveness.  We are sinners, no doubt about that.  

You talk about the temptations being overcome by Jesus, yes they can, but is that what Paul said?  No, he said that he still does it.  Let me put it this way.  "Everyday I set out not to view pornography, but is this what happens?  No - the pornography I do not want to view, that is what I keep doing."  Realize that this was only an example, but using Paul's language and attaching an act, makes it clearer to me.  Paul was a sinner, as am I.  I know that this is who I am, and I also know that God saves me, that I am not condemned through Him.

In Him,

Jonesy

My last post and marc's post must have been made almost simultaneously!

I think it is odd that I have not mentioned where I worship and it is automatically assumed I go to a church of christ and I am sensing now that readers think I am trying to be exclusionary and condemning by asking these questions.  Are these not legitimate questions which are answered in the Bible?  I was hoping for and am still seeking someone to discuss these in light of the  Scriptures.  Maybe someone out there would like to.

Many thanks!
MASouth

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (B. H. @ April 06 2002,10:26)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I, like MASouth, am genuinely asking  questions, in which my last two or three post contained several that remain unanswered.

When are we saved?  Can we know when?  "Study to show thy self approved"--If you are in Christ you are approved are you not? To show yourself approved which being in Christ entails logically  forces the conclusion we can know when we are saved.[/quote]
B.H.

Why would you ask, "When are we saved?"?

The moment of salvation is so strong, how would anyone not know?

Booty,

No I will not object to the thief on the cross.

I fear that when we are the the judgement many will be turned away from God because they did not get baptized or have the Spirit.  I will cry when God asks you why you did not tell these people they had to do it when they asked you about it.  Notice I do not excuse them because they could have read for themselves what to do in the matter and the fact they asked showed their conscience convicted them.

Why am I a legalist and a meanie because I insist we should be baptized.  Also no one has responded to my post on whether or not you are going to disfellowship me for heresy because I will not accept an unimmersed person for a brother.

I have been reading over all the posts and on page 5  I came across this and wanted to make a comment.

BH,YOU SAID: I'll strongly know the moment of salvation when it is presented to me as being such by scripture quotations.  

Until then I will take I John 4:13-14 et al as a general statement with Mark 16 and Acts 2  about baptism telling me  when I am in Christ."'

MY COMMENT: Acts 16:30 ....the Philippian jailer asked "what must I do to be saved?" and they answered him by saying, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved....."  Isn't that enough scripture to tell one exactly when one would reach the point of salvation? It does mention the word "saved" where the others do not.

ALSO:I just don't see where those three passages tell us when one is "in Christ." Can you quote the exact verses and maybe make BOLD the exact places? Well, on second thought maybe it is I Jn.4:15 "whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." Yeah, I guess that would do it. Kinda goes along with Acts.16:30, right?

What about Mr.16:17-18?  Do you believe it as much as you believe 16:16?  It says in part that those who believe will have signs following them which include speaking in tongues, casting out devils, and laying hands on the sick, expecting their recovery.

Jerusalem was a congregation that refused to preach the gospel to Gentiles for a decade or more. It was a church with apostles, prophets, elders, and members, who as late as Paul's third missionary journey, were still "zealous for the law" (Acts 21:20). They seem to have had a leader by the name of James that ran things. Even Peter was afraid of those who came from him (Gal.2:12). He is mentioned ahead of the elders as if they are secondary (Acts 21:18). Yet no one thinks they weren't saved. In fact, we usually think of it as the church to restore!

Corinth was divided into four factions and even had an element that did not believe in the resurrection (ch.15). They had many problems and yet Paul commanded them to withdraw from only one member -- the man who was living with his father's wife (5:1-11). No one that I know of thinks that the entire church was lost.

Sardis was dead, yet there was an element within it that was "worthy" and would walk with Jesus in white. No one that I know of thinks those folks were lost.

There were no perfect churches in the first century. The only congregation that came close to being 100% condemned was Laodicea. Perhaps because they didn't think they needed anything (Rev.3:17) and in doing so failed to see their great need for Jesus.

If we who are in the churches of Christ today are not careful, we will end up being more like those first century churches, with all their error, than we would like to think. Our savior will be "our perfection" rather than in our relationship with Jesus!  :(

Blue Collar