Author Topic: Are you saved?  (Read 1261 times)

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Offline johntwayne

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Are you saved?
« on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 03:28:45 »
Are you saved? If so, why are you in a saved condition?

There are many answers given to this question. Some say, “I am saved because I obeyed the gospel.” Some say, “I am saved because I go to church every Sunday and Wednesday.” Some say, “I am saved because I give of my means, I pray, I study the Bible, I’m good to my family, I don’t swindle people, or murder, or commit adultery, and I’m fair with others.”

All of these things are important things that we should strive for, but notice the emphasis in each of these. I obeyed the gospel, 1 go to church, I give of my means, and so forth and so on. “I” is the operative word here.

In salvation God ought to be the operative word. We are saved by God’s grace! He empowers us to obey the gospel, to go to church, to give of our means, to pray, to study the bible, to be good to our family, to avoid sins like swindling, or murder or adultery. Read the following passage with care…

Eph 2:4-10 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (6) and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, (7) in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (8) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Note, then, that it is by grace we have been saved. We are “God’s workmanship.” Will we do good works? Yes, God preforms them through us! We are “created in Christ Jesus for good works.” Only God can create! God “prepared” the good works “beforehand, that we should walk in them.” As Paul says. "so no man can boast.”

The next time someone asks you why you are in a saved condition say, “because God saved me by His grace through faith.”
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 04:00:59 by johntwayne »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 05:41:43 »
JTW, I agree, mostly, with all that you said there and the point you made.  I would add a comment to it.  We have two verses that speak about the consequences of not obeying the gospel.

Rom_10:16  But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"
2Th_1:8  in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.


Thus, there is the implication of the consequences of obeying the gospel.  We should not disregard that.  I would definitely agree with the point of your last statement, namely, that God has saved us by His grace through faith.  I would add that a significant aspect of that faith is the obeying the gospel. 

Jordan Peterson is someone that I truly enjoy listening to his lectures and reading what he writes.  He has said that he doesn't like the question, "Do you believe in God?".  But he answers that question with, "I try to speak and act as if I believed in God".  He follows that with his own question which is, "How can you say you believe in God and not do what He says?"  It is a serious question and one that we should all ask ourselves.  A saving faith is more than just saying, "I believe in God".

Offline johntwayne

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 06:23:43 »
I don't disagree with anything you've written 4WD. My point was to emphasize grace is the basis of our salvation. Faith (obedience to the gospel) are the conditions by which we are saved. The blood of Christ is the means by which we are saved.
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 06:32:38 by johntwayne »

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 06:23:43 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 06:57:33 »
YES ! !

+1

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 06:57:33 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 13, 2021 - 18:47:11 »
johntwayne,
It also depends on how one asks the question. If you were to ask "Who do you give credit for you being saved, I think you would get "God" 100% of the time. If one asks, how were you saved, one may think they are being asked about their part, so you may get answers like "I" accepted Jesus as my personal savior.

Asking why are you in a saved condition, it depends on how someone sees the question. Yes, one reason some may answer "I..." is because they are trying to take the credit, but it's not the only reason.
« Last Edit: Thu May 13, 2021 - 18:50:20 by e.r.m. »

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 13, 2021 - 18:47:11 »



Offline Johnb

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 13, 2021 - 20:17:11 »
JTW with our background. We could give some good lesson in legalism.  But we now understand about grace.  Love you my brother.  Oh and yes I am saved by grace.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 13, 2021 - 20:17:11 »

Offline fish153

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #6 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 10:40:40 »
We are saved UNTO good works. Clearly stared in Ephesians 2:10. Good works are the RESULT of salvation. They in no way LEAD to salvation. Salvation has NOTHING to do with works. "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #7 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:17:04 »
fish153,
I don't think anyone is questioning that.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #8 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:35:49 »
But faith without works is dead, therefore not saving faith.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #8 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:35:49 »

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #9 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:46:04 »
A faith that does not lead to works is dead.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #10 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:52:47 »
And a dead faith does not save.

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #11 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 11:55:11 »
Correct. But the works, or the lack thereof, is only the demonstration, not the root cause, which is the dead faith.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #12 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 13:28:32 »
But having an undead faith means works are evidenced. No evidence of living faith no salvation. Semantically works would be required for salvation, Why? because without them there is no faith. Not Not to earn salvation, but so that one could be found with saving faith. And around and around we go. Salvation is not caused by works or earned by works. Everyone agrees on that I would hope.
« Last Edit: Fri May 14, 2021 - 13:30:39 by Jaime »

Offline fish153

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #13 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 13:54:06 »
erm--
Correct. GOOD WORKS are the result of salvation. If one has been transformed they WILL bear good fruit. A mulberry tree cannot produce apples. Only an apple tree can. An unsaved person CANNOT produce Good Works of the kind GOD considers good. Only a saved person can. And a saved person WILL because they have been saved UNTO good works.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #14 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 14:09:16 »
The works that flow out of faith has nothing to with religion or Churchianity.

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #15 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 14:55:59 »
fish15,
Quote
An unsaved person CANNOT produce Good Works of the kind GOD considers good. Only a saved person can.
Wrong.
That's gnostic dualism, not Biblical christian teaching.

Acts 10:1-4,30-31 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. [2] He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. [3] One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!” [4] Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.
...[30] Cornelius answered: “Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me [31] and said, 'Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor.
« Last Edit: Fri May 14, 2021 - 15:50:05 by e.r.m. »

Offline fish153

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #16 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 17:53:36 »
erm---
Cornelius was "good" in man's eyes. Jesus even said "there is none good but God". The Bible says there is none who do good. "There is NONE righteous, no not one". This is from God's perspective. Until we are SAVED we are nowhere near righteous in God's eyes. When we are saved God DECLARES we are righteous due to what Jesus did on the cross. Without the Spirit in us "all of our righteousness is as filthy rags" to God. An unsaved person CANNOT please God.

Offline e.r.m.

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #17 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 18:03:28 »
fish153,
Cornelius sure did.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #18 on: Fri May 14, 2021 - 18:49:43 »
erm---
Cornelius was "good" in man's eyes. Jesus even said "there is none good but God". The Bible says there is none who do good. "There is NONE righteous, no not one". This is from God's perspective. Until we are SAVED we are nowhere near righteous in God's eyes. When we are saved God DECLARES we are righteous due to what Jesus did on the cross. Without the Spirit in us "all of our righteousness is as filthy rags" to God. An unsaved person CANNOT please God.
It is not so much from God's perspective.  Rather it is a measure of righteousness compared with God's righteousness.  Jesus said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." (Mark 10:18).  But here again that is a measure of good against God's good, which is perfect.  It doesn't mean that some things which are good measured against man's good is not pleasing to God.  There is no way to consider a mother loving and nursing her child to not be good in God's eyes.  At the same time that mother is not good, i.e., she is not good in every way, as measured against God's perfect good.

That is the same thing that Paul was arguing in Romans 3:10.  He did not say that no one ever did a righteous thing, something good.  He was simply saying that there is no one who always and ever does the right thing.  That as also what he meant in Romans 3:23 when he said that all have sinned.
 
When we are saved, yes God declares us righteous.  That doesn't mean not guilty.  It means forgiven.  It means in spite of all that we have done and are doing, God says, "No punishment for you".

You might think of that as nit picking, but I think the distinction is important.

Offline fish153

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #19 on: Sat May 15, 2021 - 15:54:52 »
erm---

"God looks down from Heaven on the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE; He looks to see if ANYONE IS truly wise, if anyone seeks God. But NO, ALL have turned away; ALL have become corrupt. NO ONE DOES GOOD, NOT A SINGLE ONE!" (Psalm 53: 2-3)

No. Cornelius was not "good" from God's perspective. No man is. That is why we MUST be born again.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #20 on: Sat May 15, 2021 - 18:55:50 »
erm---

"God looks down from Heaven on the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE; He looks to see if ANYONE IS truly wise, if anyone seeks God. But NO, ALL have turned away; ALL have become corrupt. NO ONE DOES GOOD, NOT A SINGLE ONE!" (Psalm 53: 2-3)

No. Cornelius was not "good" from God's perspective. No man is. That is why we MUST be born again.

Are you suggesting that now that you have been born again that you are "good"?  Interesting.  You continue to sin, nevertheless you are good?

Offline fish153

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #21 on: Sun May 16, 2021 - 15:14:17 »
4WD—-

No. I didn’t say I am good. I’m a sinner. However, the Bible says that God has declared my spirit as “righteous”. “There is therefore now NO condemnation to them who are IN Christ Jesus”. When one is truly born-again they are IN Christ Jesus. Before God as “new creations” we are perfect in spirit before Him. God SEES us in standing as righteous people.

However, even though I am declared righteous (see Romans 3) I have an old nature within me. A fallen nature. So I do sin, and I am a sinner. I am “justified” before God in my spirit, but I am being sanctified as a whole person. This is how we are “working out” our salvation. We are growing into sanctified people— expressing a salvation we already HAVE. Day by Day we are expressing more and more of what already happened in our spirit when we were born-again.

God looks upon born again people as good and righteous because it is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS not not OURS. In our STANDING before God we are righteous, but in our present STATE on earth we are still sinners who need forgiveness daily. We are IN CHRIST, so when God looks upon us He sees the righteousness of Christ IN US—not OUR filthy rags of self-righteousness.  We MUST all be born-again, and become NEW CREATIONS for God to look upon us as righteous. Jesus said this very thing.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #22 on: Sun May 16, 2021 - 20:25:36 »
Yes, I agree with that.  We are not made righteous; rather we are declared righteous.  There is a difference.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #23 on: Mon May 24, 2021 - 08:41:19 »
Yes, I agree with that.  We are not made righteous; rather we are declared righteous.  There is a difference.
Difference? Absolutely.

But we ARE made righteous over time.  The difference between imputed and imparted righteousness.  We are DECLARED righteous, and thru the process of sanctification we are MADE righteous; as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Are you saved?
« Reply #24 on: Mon May 24, 2021 - 10:45:32 »
Difference? Absolutely.

But we ARE made righteous over time.  The difference between imputed and imparted righteousness.  We are DECLARED righteous, and thru the process of sanctification we are MADE righteous; as Paul said:

2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

We are never declared "not guilty".  Sins committed cannot be un-committed.  We are only declared, "No Penalty for you".

 

     
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