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Author Topic: B.H.Are you the same?  (Read 1626 times)

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B.H.Are you the same?
« on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 04:15:54 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]B.H.,
I just read a post on the SEC WEB signed by a B.H.

 This B.H. said he was beating the sh.. out of us over here on this board.This B.H. was congratulating other atheist for putting down CoC folks.

 I apologize if I'm wrong in thinking you are that B.H.,it was written about 2 days ago.Diana,Jeff,wolf,Terra and others were discussing the fact that the COCN board put Diana off.

 Our faith is as precious as Gold and is not to be used as games for atheist to play around with.Just would like to know if you are that person.I hope not.

God bless,Charles[/quote]
All right, I'll answer your question.

Yes, I am the same B.H.  The statement I made concerns my reflections on the private discussions I have had with people here regarding my "Questions About the Bible" thread I posted earlier. One thing I did not do is state just exactly where I met Booty-GCMDB. 

I do not mean to be rude, Charles, but since you posted my little qoute I now know you browse your internet neighbor's website. Are you learning anything?  Why don't you formally drop by, take your shoes off, get a glass of your favorite drink and be our registered guest for a while?  I am sure you could teach us so much over there.  I will be personally glad to introduce you as well if I may be so honored.

Everyone reading this please note that I HAVE NOT POSTED any information shared between us via GCM private discussion.  I did mention that one lady was treating me real well and that many folks are ignoring me.  I have  honored Lee Wilson's request I not advertise GCMDB on the Secular Web. Lee, if you read this please know that I have not been pasting formal online GCM discussion threads at II either.

Also, I must admit I am rather frustrated that no one has refuted me and that so few people have tried.  I am not trying to brag (I could meet a preacher here tomorrow who takes me to the woodshed on the God issue)  but in fact wish to state it really and truly hurts me that no one has seriously tried to prove me wrong for the most part.  And this is supposed to be the grace filled and loving CoC/DoC/CC website.   :( with tears.

Right now I am reading the Warren-Matson debate over the existance of God.  I really think Matson went to far as to say "I KNOW God does not exist" but Warren just seems to make claim after claim in an "ipsi dixit" on my authority alone" fashion.  He really never proves anything either.  He also spends  a lot of his time arguing the fallacy of the unwanted/negative consequence.'  This is where something must be true because if not then that means something I don't like will then be true.  If anyone disagrees please let me know via pm.

[message edited by B.H.]

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B.H.Are you the same?
« on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 04:15:54 »

Offline Emily

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B.H.Are you the same?
« Reply #1 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 06:00:39 »
B.H., You said,  

"Also, I must admit I am rather frustrated that no one has refuted me and that so few people have tried.  I am not trying to brag (I could meet a preacher here tomorrow who takes me to the woodshed on the God issue)  but in fact wish to state it really and truly hurts me that no one has seriously tried to prove me wrong for the most part.  And this is supposed to be the grace filled and loving CoC/DoC/CC website. with tears."

B.H., I believe Lee told you in the beginning that the purpose of GCM board was to build up and edify the faith of believers, not to serve as place for debating the existance of God or tearing down our faith.  Here is Lee's quote to you from another thread...

Lee said,

"But let me say right now that I prefer that this discussion dissolves. Grace Centered has been and will continue to be a safe haven for faith. Not a place for the Bible to be placed on trial. There are plenty of places on the Internet for that. Grace Centered is simply not one of those places."

I think he made it pretty clear that GCM is not a place where anyone is going to debate you or try to "prove you wrong". This IS a grace-filled site; that is why from the beginning you were welcomed and treated kindly. People treated you with respect even when they disagreed with you.  I am not sure what your definition of "grace-filled" is, but debate and needless contention is not in the definition.  As for "proving you wrong", no one is ever going to do that for you, BH, not ever.  Either you choose to believe in God and Jesus or you don't.  It's that simple.  I might see something as the answer to prayer, and you might see it as "coincidence".  It's up to the individual how life is perceived.  

As for Lee's comment, I am very glad that this board has been a safe haven for my faith.  My faith is not strong and I stuggle with it all the time. But the difference is that I DO believe, and I want to know Jesus as my Lord, so I keep searching to build that relationship with Him. The fact that my faith is weak does not mean that God is any less real.  I am aware that there are issues in my life that make up who I am and how I relate to God. My struggle is not that I do not believe in God, but that my own bad experiences sometimes hinder me from sharing the life and joy He has offered me.

In any event, this board is very special to me.  I do not post often, but I read every day.  It helps my faith to grow by reading about the faith of others and how they overcome obstacles.  However, when I read posts that argue the existence of God, or cast doubts on the validity of the Bible, it hurts me spiritually and chips away at my faith.  I do not need that in my spiritual life as I encounter enough of it in the day to day world.  I expect a Christian board to be a place where I can come and spiritually rest from all that confusion.  The fact that other Christians on the GCM board do not "try to prove you wrong" at the expense of weaker Christians like myself is because they DO have "grace" toward you...and toward me.  

BTW, my husband used to be an atheist for many years.  For reasons I won't go into, he is now a deist but not a Christian.  In the many years of our marriage, he has never tried to debate me out of my faith, but always encouraged me to follow the path that gave me peace.  I think that is a good attitude for atheists to have toward believers.
Emily

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« Reply #1 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 06:00:39 »

Offline peck

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« Reply #2 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 14:57:02 »
Emily,
You are a blessing to any board you are a part of.

B.H.,

 Thanks for your honesty.I find that to be true of most atheist.

 Also thanks for the invite,but I would be too boring over there for you to enjoy my company.

 You'all are masters of your domain and christians who go over there with an agenda are just bait for entertainment.

 You have every right to be an atheist,I respect that.But to come over on our boards with no purpose in Jesus death and not even agreeing to the first verse in the bible makes me question what is your purpose.

 What's the big deal about the choice of atheism.Why are you making a religion out of your beliefs and trying to change christians from faith to a religion based on sight.Christians coming off your sites have a delusion that they have won.Atheist coming off our sites have a delusion that they have won.In reality,we don't belong in the same camp.

Anyhow,I respect your belief and hope for your friendship.

Bless you,Charles

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B.H.Are you the same?
« Reply #2 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 14:57:02 »

Offline N2Him

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« Reply #3 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 15:23:32 »
Peck:
I saw that thread also on the II board. B.H. was boasting about beating people up on the this board, not in private conversations via e-mail.

Emily,
Bless you. You have taken exactly where I am in my walk also
but you are so eloquent in phrasing it. We have much in common, including spouse's. Please know that I feel as you,
and find this place comforting.

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« Reply #3 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 15:23:32 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline seekr

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« Reply #4 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 17:52:43 »
Emily, Jerry, Bill--what "grace"ful replies. What someone assumes never swayed Jesus either.

seekr

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« Reply #4 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 17:52:43 »



Offline patriciaredstone

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« Reply #5 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 19:12:34 »
I, too, have no choice but to acknowledge that the atheist and the agnostic are on a journey of faith. Pure belief in "science" or pure belief in the One Creator has been blurred with the word "religion."  From time to time this confusion is exposed. Whenever a major scientific aspect arises, religion appears to be backed to a wall. But afterward it turns out than in fact, faith in the One Creator has been clarified attributing existence to God. Then, we realise that the doubt is due to the fact that existence is -- however we define existence -- immesurably remote from God. At first glace this statement seems like heresy, but it is where atheism and Christianity unite. Awareness of our distance from God, is actually the highest level of faith. At that point the human spirit becomes aware that the divine emanates existence and is itself beyond existence ... What appears to be atheism and heresy, is, in truth, the purest faith. But this denial of existence in God -- is a return to the source of all being, to the essential vibrancy of all existence -- and requires exquisite insight. Each day one must trace it back to its authentic purity or deny his own existance. The infinite transcends every particular content of faith. This idea is discussed in length in The Unknown God by Alfred Noyes.

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« Reply #5 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 19:12:34 »

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« Reply #6 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 19:17:13 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Arkstfan @ May 24 2002,11:36)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]BH, atheisim is a belief system and it is based on faith. You and no one else can prove God does not exist as a matter of scientific certainty. I cannot prove God to a matter of scientific certainty.

A debate on the matter is pointless. You either believe that the universe magically appeared out of nothing on its own accord or it was spoken into existence by God the creator.

If you are right neither of us will ever know it because when we die we will be dead unless there is a monumental leap in science before we die.

If I am right we will find out after our death unless Jesus returns prior to then.

An extended thread or threads on the subject is not harmony with the purpose of this site. All it does is make people angry or cocky about their belief of how correct they are yet we cannot prove one side correct and one wrong.

Its just a little too much like a prarie dog fight for my taste. (If you've never seen one they stand up and hit at each other's paws/hands really fast sort of like Laverene and Shirley used to do. In the end not much is accomplished).[/quote]
Arkstfan,

I agree with you on the importance of not straying from Mr. Wilson's purpose of this website.  Hopefully, everyone understands I responded only to peck's post and was not trying to "evangelize the saved."    If you want to lock up this thread I do not care.

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« Reply #7 on: Sat May 25, 2002 - 06:37:02 »
N2him,

Tell me just exactly how you got "in to him"?

Offline N2Him

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« Reply #8 on: Sat May 25, 2002 - 17:05:15 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (B. H. @ May 24 2002,11:37)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]N2him,

Tell me just exactly how you got "in to him"?[/quote]
I was born again about 3 years ago. Went to COC (non IM)
as well as Christian Church (IM). After much praying and studying, realized that for many years, I had believed in God,
but did not *know* Him or have a relationship with Him. I was
immersed then, and that started my never ending journey to
be in Him (N2Him). I am constantly amazed at what I have
missed out on all those prior years. Even more amazing is the
fact Jesus died for the likes of me.

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« Reply #8 on: Sat May 25, 2002 - 17:05:15 »

Offline peck

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« Reply #9 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 03:03:17 »
B.H.,
I just read a post on the SEC WEB signed by a B.H.

 This B.H. said he was beating the sh.. out of us over here on this board.This B.H. was congratulating other atheist for putting down CoC folks.

 I apologize if I'm wrong in thinking you are that B.H.,it was written about 2 days ago.Diana,Jeff,wolf,Terra and others were discussing the fact that the COCN board put Diana off.

 Our faith is as precious as Gold and is not to be used as games for atheist to play around with.Just would like to know if you are that person.I hope not.

God bless,Charles

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« Reply #10 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 04:52:26 »
Since we are on this "Who's Bashing the CoC at Secular Web" subject thread let me please make a few additional comments.  There are a WHOLE lot of folks at Secular Web who used to be CoC who have the same gripes and complaints about it that all of you have.  Also, you know the old saying  "If I badmouth my brother it's o.k., but if you badmouth him I will beat you up",well, I see that going on here.  You guys are always griping about what is going on in the CoC or what some so-and-so said and it's fine when you do it, but lo and behold when we at Secular Web do it we might have been messing with the family.

Many of those over at II came from all sorts of backgrounds in the CoC.  Nerdneh, you will be interested that there are two former non-institutional folks over there, both women I think.  There are two  preachers and 3  lay  former members of the mainline group who are now died-in-the-wool atheists posting over there.  I am over there as well  and came out of the non-class group.

I started a thread over there called "Church of Christ" where we discussed a lot of things we saw and heard  growing up in the CoC.  It was not too long ago either so if you like I will pull it up for anyone to see who is interested. But if you request I do so please actually go over to II and read the thread.  I sure do not want to feel I am "casting my pearls before swine."  :p  ;)

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« Reply #11 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 06:23:53 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Emily @ May 23 2002,11:00)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]B.H., I believe Lee told you in the beginning that the purpose of GCM board was to build up and edify the faith of believers, not to serve as place for debating the existance of God or tearing down our faith.  Here is Lee's quote to you from another thread...

Lee said,

"But let me say right now that I prefer that this discussion dissolves. Grace Centered has been and will continue to be a safe haven for faith. Not a place for the Bible to be placed on trial. There are plenty of places on the Internet for that. Grace Centered is simply not one of those places."

As for Lee's comment, I am very glad that this board has been a safe haven for my faith.  My faith is not strong and I stuggle with it all the time. But the difference is that I DO believe, and I want to know Jesus as my Lord, so I keep searching to build that relationship with Him. The fact that my faith is weak does not mean that God is any less real.  I am aware that there are issues in my life that make up who I am and how I relate to God. My struggle is not that I do not believe in God, but that my own bad experiences sometimes hinder me from sharing the life and joy He has offered me.

In any event, this board is very special to me.  I do not post often, but I read every day.  It helps my faith to grow by reading about the faith of others and how they overcome obstacles.  However, when I read posts that argue the existence of God, or cast doubts on the validity of the Bible, it hurts me spiritually and chips away at my faith.  I do not need that in my spiritual life as I encounter enough of it in the day to day world.  I expect a Christian board to be a place where I can come and spiritually rest from all that confusion.  The fact that other Christians on the GCM board do not "try to prove you wrong" at the expense of weaker Christians like myself is because they DO have "grace" toward you...and toward me.  [/quote]
Emily,


I remember what Mr. Lee said and I told anyone interested to private message me.  Lee concurred with this idea and raised no objections.  I was referring to private message discussions and not some formal in front of everyone debate.

Emily, I appreciate you being honest about the strength of your faith. I promise I would not have made my posts above if peck had not referred to the II thread.  I hope you have a good evening and enjoy what you read tonight on GCMDB.

Offline janine

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B.H.Are you the same?
« Reply #12 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 14:58:44 »
In the atheists' economy:
     volume,
     an astringent flavor provided by use of 'blue' language,
     a way of looking at 'self' as the standard for measure of everything else, and
     perceived 'scoring' through verbal cuteness,
 
all seem to be the norm.


Not that a Christian or an Animist or a Democrat (ick!) :p can't fall into the same stuff.  I'm just talking about what I can see with my own eyes (which standard oughta appeal to an atheist...)


In the Christian economy:
     content/intent,
     words 'seasoned with salt',
     a desire to rip self out of the way so that Someone Else can shine through, and
     lack of an obsessive desire to 'score' on the other,

are the goals of the thoughtful.

To the atheist, I guess, might makes right.

To the Christian, right is mighty.

Offline Bill

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« Reply #13 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 16:21:03 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Also, I must admit I am rather frustrated that no one has refuted me and that so few people have tried.  I am not trying to brag (I could meet a preacher here tomorrow who takes me to the woodshed on the God issue)  but in fact wish to state it really and truly hurts me that no one has seriously tried to prove me wrong for the most part.  And this is supposed to be the grace filled and loving CoC/DoC/CC website.    with tears.
[/quote]

Emily, you are right, no one tried to take B.H.  to the woodshed (beat him up or put him down) but quite a few made honest efforts in love to discuss his questions(comments).  In my mind, their answers did refute B.H.s comments and answered his questions.  Although he thinks differently.  At first I thought he was looking for answers, I don't believe that any more although I pray that I'm wrong in this.

It appears to me tha B.H. has chosen to not believe in God and will use whatever means to get others to think the same way.

Emily, you have chosen God and recognized your weaknesses.  I see you as being strong because of that.  God can do great things through our weakness.  At least that is what He has told us and I believe Him.  It is only when we think we are strong and have it all together that we run into problems.

In any case, I also really appreciate this board and those who post on it.  In fact, I think the church I attend also appreciates it (even those who have never visited) because it has had a definate positive affect upon me and that is portrayed in how I treat my brothers & sisters in Christ.  Although I still miss the mark more than I care to admit.

Bill

Bill



[!--EDIT|Bill|May 24 2002,08:35--]

Offline Bon Voyage

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« Reply #14 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 16:50:24 »
This is just my opinion as a regular at COCN:

I don't think that who wins matters.  I would say more than 99% of the time, I think I won, and the other party thinks they won in a matter of this kind of debate.

If Jesus came back and visited some of the athiests I still dont' think they would believe.  And me trying to prove Christianity when it is a religion of faith is absurd.

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« Reply #15 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 18:36:57 »
BH, atheisim is a belief system and it is based on faith. You and no one else can prove God does not exist as a matter of scientific certainty. I cannot prove God to a matter of scientific certainty.

A debate on the matter is pointless. You either believe that the universe magically appeared out of nothing on its own accord or it was spoken into existence by God the creator.

If you are right neither of us will ever know it because when we die we will be dead unless there is a monumental leap in science before we die.

If I am right we will find out after our death unless Jesus returns prior to then.

An extended thread or threads on the subject is not harmony with the purpose of this site. All it does is make people angry or cocky about their belief of how correct they are yet we cannot prove one side correct and one wrong.

Its just a little too much like a prarie dog fight for my taste. (If you've never seen one they stand up and hit at each other's paws/hands really fast sort of like Laverene and Shirley used to do. In the end not much is accomplished).

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B.H.Are you the same?
« Reply #16 on: Fri May 24, 2002 - 19:12:54 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (peck @ May 24 2002,07:57)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Emily,
You are a blessing to any board you are a part of.

B.H.,

 Thanks for your honesty.I find that to be true of most atheist.

 Also thanks for the invite,but I would be too boring over there for you to enjoy my company.

 You'all are masters of your domain and christians who go over there with an agenda are just bait for entertainment.

 You have every right to be an atheist,I respect that.But to come over on our boards with no purpose in Jesus death and not even agreeing to the first verse in the bible makes me question what is your purpose.

 What's the big deal about the choice of atheism.Why are you making a religion out of your beliefs and trying to change christians from faith to a religion based on sight.Christians coming off your sites have a delusion that they have won.Atheist coming off our sites have a delusion that they have won.In reality,we don't belong in the same camp.

Anyhow,I respect your belief and hope for your friendship.

Bless you,Charles[/quote]
peck,

Thank you for your respect and friendship. Remember we have a FORMAL Debate Section over there where you will not be allowed to suffer a lot of the abuse dished out there.  Please remember that you started the thread and I was only reponding to your question.

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« Reply #17 on: Sat May 25, 2002 - 06:35:47 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (N2Him @ May 24 2002,08:23)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Peck:
I saw that thread also on the II board. B.H. was boasting about beating people up on the this board, not in private conversations via e-mail.[/quote]
Nope.

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B.H.Are you the same?
« Reply #18 on: Sat May 25, 2002 - 16:14:58 »
JerryBrooke
Posted: May 24 2002,09:50
 [!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]If Jesus came back and visited some of the athiests I still dont' think they would believe.  And me trying to prove Christianity when it is a religion of faith is absurd. [/quote]

I agree.  My understanding of faith in God is that it is a gift from God.  Trying to prove or disprove God's existence is a no win situation for both sides.  

My prayer,
Jehovah God please help me to love you and to love others without selfcenterdness.


Nicholas.....saved by grace

 

     
anything