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Offline Lively Stone

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Can a Christian lose salvation?
« on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 12:54:04 »
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"

Answer: Before this question is answered, the term “Christian

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Can a Christian lose salvation?
« on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 12:54:04 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 13:21:21 »
Lose as in misplace? No.

Reject? Yes

I love recycling these old issues. Always  good for 30 or 40 pages of posts.
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 14:50:41 by Jaime »

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 13:21:21 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 14:36:27 »
You did a lot of defining for the word Christian.

Maybe you should have done more defining of the word Salvation?

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 14:36:27 »

Offline HypakoeDoulos

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 16:20:28 »
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?" ...

The Biblical Answer: "Yes."

Though no one may take it [salvation] from them [John 10:28-29], but for the answer of "Yes", here is how it [salvation] may be spurned and "cast away".  A Christian may throw their salvation away, may cast it aside, may go back to their previous lifestyle or worse, and may freely leap from the hand of God, for God does not take away their freedom of choice from choosing to continue in Him.  There is no such thing as "irresistable grace".

Biblical text in evidence:

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2 Peter 2:19

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2:20

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:21

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:22

Look at the texts, consider the words.

to "have known"Past Tense [as in at one point they did know the "way of righteousness" and the "holy commandment"], Greek: epiginōskō, to be thoroughly acquainted with see [Matthew 11:27, as Son knoweth the Father, and likewise the Father, the Son]

"after they have escaped": Past Tense [as in they have completely gotten away from what they once were in the "pollutions of the world"].  How did they "escape"?  it was through "the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ".  This means that they fully acknowledged Jesus as both their Lord [they obeyed him] and their Saviour [they accepted the free salvation in Christ Jesus].

Yet, the scriptures says, that "if" [if is the complete possibility to choose to turn away from the salvation so freely offered.  Should it not be possible to do so, there could be no such "if".] and so the scripture continues with this "if" by saying, "they are again entangled therein".  What does it mean then this "again", but they had once been free from such entanglement and are now "again" entangled?  How can it be said "again" unless there was at least a first time before then?  For the word "again" means "once more", "another time", "in addition", etc.

Notice the word "overcome".  Christ Jesus says that we may "overcometh" [temptation to sin, not in our own strength of course, but by Him through the Holy Spirit], just as He "overcame" [every temptation] [Revelation 3:21; Hebrews 4:15], but since the scripture says that it is possible to still be "overcome" and to fall back/away "again" from Christ Jesus and are "again entangled", we can choose to refuse that "way to escape" [1 Corinthians 10:13] offered from every temptation to sin [transgress the Law].

Notice that the "latter end" is "worse" with them than "the beginning".  How could this be so, if they never had salvation and known it?  For the word "worse" is something of increase in situation, and not for the betterment, and not of the sameness as before.

Notice the words which refer to the "dog" that "turned" and "the sow that was washed".  We are all sinners.  How then can anyone say of the "sow that was washed" that they were never "washed", never had salvation?  How then can anyone say that the "sow that was washed" is turned to "her wallowing in the mire".  It was the sows choice to do so, to "turn" yet "again", though she was at one point "washed".  Washed in what?  The Blood of the Lamb of course.

Consider still more texts:

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

What does the word "abideth" mean?  Greek: menō which means to "remain, not depart, to keep in place, continue to be present, held, etc".  Cain was offered the same salvation as Abel [Genesis 3:15], yet Cain chose to "go out from the presence of the Lord" and those like him said "depart from us".  Judas, likewise, chosen by Jesus, filled with Holy Spirit, preaching, casting out devils etc, yet was "overcome" by his own choosing, and his end was worse than if he had never known the way of righteousness.  King Saul [1 Samuel 10:6] is yet still another example.  Filled with the Holy Spirit, chosen by God, a King, prophesying, yet, continually chose to rebel and refused to repent and eventually disregarded all of the words of the Lord, and so heeded devils and took his own life.

How can Jesus and the scriptures say that we must "abide", "continue", have "patience", have "faith", "walk with", "remain", etc, if we could never "lose" [cast away] our "so great salvation"?  We can never by any of our own works or merits, or law abiding ever earn or pay for our salvation [it is an utter impossibility], but we can cast away what we have once received so freely offered by Christ Jesus.

Yet more scripture:

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Matthew 18:21

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Matthew 18:22

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Matthew 18:23

And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. Matthew 18:24

But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Matthew 18:25

The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:26

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Matthew 18:27

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. Matthew 18:28

And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:29

And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. Matthew 18:30

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Matthew 18:31

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Matthew 18:32

Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Matthew 18:33

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Matthew 18:34

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:35

Notice the words.  There was a "certain King" which would "take account of His servants".  Whose servants are they?  Are they not the servants of the "certain King"?  Is this parable not speaking of the "Kingdom of Heaven"?  Who then is this "certain King" if not Jesus Christ?  Who then are these "servants" of His?

Did not this servant owe a great sum of money?  An amount which could never be paid, except at the cost of His Life, and everything?

What then did the "servant" which owed do?  Is it not true that this "servant fell down" and "worshipped" the "Lord"?

What did the "Lord of that servant" say and do?  Was He not "moved with compassion" and "loosed him"?  Did not this "Lord" have great mercy on His "servant", forgiveness ["forgave him the debt"] upon him and set him free from the entire debt owed?

Yet, is this the end of the parable?  No, for it continues...

The "servant" which had owed but then freed, did not do as His Lord had done to other servants, but instead was unmerciful.  Was not this "servant" which had owed the great sum then brough back again before the Merciful "King" and "Lord"?  Does not the "Lord" call him then a "wicked servant" whom the "Lord" had previously "forgave all that debt" because the "servant" had "desiredst" of His "Lord"?

What then happened to the unmerciful debtor?  He again was to pay all the debt owed, which is the "wages of sin", being the "second death".

Yet more scripture [Matthew 13]:

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Matthew 13:20

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Matthew 13:21

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. Matthew 13:22

What of the parable of the sower and the seed which fell upon differing kinds of ground?  Did not some fall upon the wayside and some upon the thorns?  Did not some beleive for a short while, and then turned away or overcome?  Does not the passage clearly say that the seed among "stony places" was he that "heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it"?  Look at the words, "heareth" and "receiveth".  It means that they understood, and took the meaning to heart [with "joy receiveth it"], yet it continues by saying, "dureth for a while".  This person chose not to remain rooted to those things or to "abide" until "the end" [Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13].  They let "tribulation" and "persecution" overcome them and were then "offended".  That which fell "among thorns", heard "the word" and yet "the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word".  Notice that by this means does this person then "become unfruitful".  It never says that they could never bear fruit, but rather it says plainly that they could bear fruit at one point, but because of those things by which they allowed themselves to be overcome, they then became "unfruitful".  For they were drawn away of their own lust [James 1:14].

There are many more such examples in scripture, like Ezekiel 33; Revelation ["if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book"; see also Psalms 69:28], the "I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent", etc.  Paul, himself, speaks on the subject many times:

But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

We must "walk in the Light, even as He is in the Light", we mus "keep [his] saying", etc:

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 16:20:28 »

Offline fish153

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 19:12:09 »
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?" ...

The Biblical Answer: "Yes."

Though no one may take it [salvation] from them [John 10:28-29], but for the answer of "Yes", here is how it [salvation] may be spurned and "cast away".  A Christian may throw their salvation away, may cast it aside, may go back to their previous lifestyle or worse, and may freely leap from the hand of God, for God does not take away their freedom of choice from choosing to continue in Him.  There is no such thing as "irresistable grace".

Biblical text in evidence:

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2 Peter 2:19

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2:20

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:21

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:22

Look at the texts, consider the words.

to "have known":  Past Tense [as in at one point they did know the "way of righteousness" and the "holy commandment"], Greek: epiginōskō, to be thoroughly acquainted with see [Matthew 11:27, as Son knoweth the Father, and likewise the Father, the Son]

"after they have escaped": Past Tense [as in they have completely gotten away from what they once were in the "pollutions of the world"].  How did they "escape"?  it was through "the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ".  This means that they fully acknowledged Jesus as both their Lord [they obeyed him] and their Saviour [they accepted the free salvation in Christ Jesus].

Yet, the scriptures says, that "if" [if is the complete possibility to choose to turn away from the salvation so freely offered.  Should it not be possible to do so, there could be no such "if".] and so the scripture continues with this "if" by saying, "they are again entangled therein".  What does it mean then this "again", but they had once been free from such entanglement and are now "again" entangled?  How can it be said "again" unless there was at least a first time before then?  For the word "again" means "once more", "another time", "in addition", etc.

Notice the word "overcome".  Christ Jesus says that we may "overcometh" [temptation to sin, not in our own strength of course, but by Him through the Holy Spirit], just as He "overcame" [every temptation] [Revelation 3:21; Hebrews 4:15], but since the scripture says that it is possible to still be "overcome" and to fall back/away "again" from Christ Jesus and are "again entangled", we can choose to refuse that "way to escape" [1 Corinthians 10:13] offered from every temptation to sin [transgress the Law].

Notice that the "latter end" is "worse" with them than "the beginning".  How could this be so, if they never had salvation and known it?  For the word "worse" is something of increase in situation, and not for the betterment, and not of the sameness as before.

Notice the words which refer to the "dog" that "turned" and "the sow that was washed".  We are all sinners.  How then can anyone say of the "sow that was washed" that they were never "washed", never had salvation?  How then can anyone say that the "sow that was washed" is turned to "her wallowing in the mire".  It was the sows choice to do so, to "turn" yet "again", though she was at one point "washed".  Washed in what?  The Blood of the Lamb of course.

Consider still more texts:

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

What does the word "abideth" mean?  Greek: menō which means to "remain, not depart, to keep in place, continue to be present, held, etc".  Cain was offered the same salvation as Abel [Genesis 3:15], yet Cain chose to "go out from the presence of the Lord" and those like him said "depart from us".  Judas, likewise, chosen by Jesus, filled with Holy Spirit, preaching, casting out devils etc, yet was "overcome" by his own choosing, and his end was worse than if he had never known the way of righteousness.  King Saul [1 Samuel 10:6] is yet still another example.  Filled with the Holy Spirit, chosen by God, a King, prophesying, yet, continually chose to rebel and refused to repent and eventually disregarded all of the words of the Lord, and so heeded devils and took his own life.

How can Jesus and the scriptures say that we must "abide", "continue", have "patience", have "faith", "walk with", "remain", etc, if we could never "lose" [cast away] our "so great salvation"?  We can never by any of our own works or merits, or law abiding ever earn or pay for our salvation [it is an utter impossibility], but we can cast away what we have once received so freely offered by Christ Jesus.

Yet more scripture:

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Matthew 18:21

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Matthew 18:22

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Matthew 18:23

And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. Matthew 18:24

But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Matthew 18:25

The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:26

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Matthew 18:27

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. Matthew 18:28

And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:29

And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. Matthew 18:30

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Matthew 18:31

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Matthew 18:32

Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Matthew 18:33

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Matthew 18:34

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:35

Notice the words.  There was a "certain King" which would "take account of His servants".  Whose servants are they?  Are they not the servants of the "certain King"?  Is this parable not speaking of the "Kingdom of Heaven"?  Who then is this "certain King" if not Jesus Christ?  Who then are these "servants" of His?

Did not this servant owe a great sum of money?  An amount which could never be paid, except at the cost of His Life, and everything?

What then did the "servant" which owed do?  Is it not true that this "servant fell down" and "worshipped" the "Lord"?

What did the "Lord of that servant" say and do?  Was He not "moved with compassion" and "loosed him"?  Did not this "Lord" have great mercy on His "servant", forgiveness ["forgave him the debt"] upon him and set him free from the entire debt owed?

Yet, is this the end of the parable?  No, for it continues...

The "servant" which had owed but then freed, did not do as His Lord had done to other servants, but instead was unmerciful.  Was not this "servant" which had owed the great sum then brough back again before the Merciful "King" and "Lord"?  Does not the "Lord" call him then a "wicked servant" whom the "Lord" had previously "forgave all that debt" because the "servant" had "desiredst" of His "Lord"?

What then happened to the unmerciful debtor?  He again was to pay all the debt owed, which is the "wages of sin", being the "second death".

Yet more scripture [Matthew 13]:

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Matthew 13:20

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Matthew 13:21

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. Matthew 13:22

What of the parable of the sower and the seed which fell upon differing kinds of ground?  Did not some fall upon the wayside and some upon the thorns?  Did not some believe for a short while, and then turned away or overcome?  Does not the passage clearly say that the seed among "stony places" was he that "heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it"?  Look at the words, "heareth" and "receiveth".  It means that they understood, and took the meaning to heart [with "joy receiveth it"], yet it continues by saying, "dureth for a while".  This person chose not to remain rooted to those things or to "abide" until "the end" [Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13].  They let "tribulation" and "persecution" overcome them and were then "offended".  That which fell "among thorns", heard "the word" and yet "the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word".  Notice that by this means does this person then "become unfruitful".  It never says that they could never bear fruit, but rather it says plainly that they could bear fruit at one point, but because of those things by which they allowed themselves to be overcome, they then became "unfruitful".  For they were drawn away of their own lust [James 1:14].

There are many more such examples in scripture, like Ezekiel 33; Revelation ["if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book"; see also Psalms 69:28], the "I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent", etc.  Paul, himself, speaks on the subject many times:

But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

We must "walk in the Light, even as He is in the Light", we mus "keep [his] saying", etc:

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 19:12:09 »



Offline HypakoeDoulos

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 19:46:55 »
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?" ...

The Biblical Answer: "Yes."

Though no one may take it [salvation] from them [John 10:28-29], but for the answer of "Yes", here is how it [salvation] may be spurned and "cast away".  A Christian may throw their salvation away, may cast it aside, may go back to their previous lifestyle or worse, and may freely leap from the hand of God, for God does not take away their freedom of choice from choosing to continue in Him.  There is no such thing as "irresistable grace".

Biblical text in evidence:

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2 Peter 2:19

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2 Peter 2:20

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Peter 2:21

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:22

Look at the texts, consider the words.

to "have known":  Past Tense [as in at one point they did know the "way of righteousness" and the "holy commandment"], Greek: epiginōskō, to be thoroughly acquainted with see [Matthew 11:27, as Son knoweth the Father, and likewise the Father, the Son]

"after they have escaped": Past Tense [as in they have completely gotten away from what they once were in the "pollutions of the world"].  How did they "escape"?  it was through "the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ".  This means that they fully acknowledged Jesus as both their Lord [they obeyed him] and their Saviour [they accepted the free salvation in Christ Jesus].

Yet, the scriptures says, that "if" [if is the complete possibility to choose to turn away from the salvation so freely offered.  Should it not be possible to do so, there could be no such "if".] and so the scripture continues with this "if" by saying, "they are again entangled therein".  What does it mean then this "again", but they had once been free from such entanglement and are now "again" entangled?  How can it be said "again" unless there was at least a first time before then?  For the word "again" means "once more", "another time", "in addition", etc.

Notice the word "overcome".  Christ Jesus says that we may "overcometh" [temptation to sin, not in our own strength of course, but by Him through the Holy Spirit], just as He "overcame" [every temptation] [Revelation 3:21; Hebrews 4:15], but since the scripture says that it is possible to still be "overcome" and to fall back/away "again" from Christ Jesus and are "again entangled", we can choose to refuse that "way to escape" [1 Corinthians 10:13] offered from every temptation to sin [transgress the Law].

Notice that the "latter end" is "worse" with them than "the beginning".  How could this be so, if they never had salvation and known it?  For the word "worse" is something of increase in situation, and not for the betterment, and not of the sameness as before.

Notice the words which refer to the "dog" that "turned" and "the sow that was washed".  We are all sinners.  How then can anyone say of the "sow that was washed" that they were never "washed", never had salvation?  How then can anyone say that the "sow that was washed" is turned to "her wallowing in the mire".  It was the sows choice to do so, to "turn" yet "again", though she was at one point "washed".  Washed in what?  The Blood of the Lamb of course.

Consider still more texts:

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:5

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

What does the word "abideth" mean?  Greek: menō which means to "remain, not depart, to keep in place, continue to be present, held, etc".  Cain was offered the same salvation as Abel [Genesis 3:15], yet Cain chose to "go out from the presence of the Lord" and those like him said "depart from us".  Judas, likewise, chosen by Jesus, filled with Holy Spirit, preaching, casting out devils etc, yet was "overcome" by his own choosing, and his end was worse than if he had never known the way of righteousness.  King Saul [1 Samuel 10:6] is yet still another example.  Filled with the Holy Spirit, chosen by God, a King, prophesying, yet, continually chose to rebel and refused to repent and eventually disregarded all of the words of the Lord, and so heeded devils and took his own life.

How can Jesus and the scriptures say that we must "abide", "continue", have "patience", have "faith", "walk with", "remain", etc, if we could never "lose" [cast away] our "so great salvation"?  We can never by any of our own works or merits, or law abiding ever earn or pay for our salvation [it is an utter impossibility], but we can cast away what we have once received so freely offered by Christ Jesus.

Yet more scripture:

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Matthew 18:21

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Matthew 18:22

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Matthew 18:23

And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. Matthew 18:24

But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Matthew 18:25

The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:26

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Matthew 18:27

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. Matthew 18:28

And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Matthew 18:29

And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. Matthew 18:30

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Matthew 18:31

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Matthew 18:32

Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Matthew 18:33

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Matthew 18:34

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:35

Notice the words.  There was a "certain King" which would "take account of His servants".  Whose servants are they?  Are they not the servants of the "certain King"?  Is this parable not speaking of the "Kingdom of Heaven"?  Who then is this "certain King" if not Jesus Christ?  Who then are these "servants" of His?

Did not this servant owe a great sum of money?  An amount which could never be paid, except at the cost of His Life, and everything?

What then did the "servant" which owed do?  Is it not true that this "servant fell down" and "worshipped" the "Lord"?

What did the "Lord of that servant" say and do?  Was He not "moved with compassion" and "loosed him"?  Did not this "Lord" have great mercy on His "servant", forgiveness ["forgave him the debt"] upon him and set him free from the entire debt owed?

Yet, is this the end of the parable?  No, for it continues...

The "servant" which had owed but then freed, did not do as His Lord had done to other servants, but instead was unmerciful.  Was not this "servant" which had owed the great sum then brough back again before the Merciful "King" and "Lord"?  Does not the "Lord" call him then a "wicked servant" whom the "Lord" had previously "forgave all that debt" because the "servant" had "desiredst" of His "Lord"?

What then happened to the unmerciful debtor?  He again was to pay all the debt owed, which is the "wages of sin", being the "second death".

Yet more scripture [Matthew 13]:

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Matthew 13:20

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Matthew 13:21

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. Matthew 13:22

What of the parable of the sower and the seed which fell upon differing kinds of ground?  Did not some fall upon the wayside and some upon the thorns?  Did not some believe for a short while, and then turned away or overcome?  Does not the passage clearly say that the seed among "stony places" was he that "heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it"?  Look at the words, "heareth" and "receiveth".  It means that they understood, and took the meaning to heart [with "joy receiveth it"], yet it continues by saying, "dureth for a while".  This person chose not to remain rooted to those things or to "abide" until "the end" [Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13].  They let "tribulation" and "persecution" overcome them and were then "offended".  That which fell "among thorns", heard "the word" and yet "the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word".  Notice that by this means does this person then "become unfruitful".  It never says that they could never bear fruit, but rather it says plainly that they could bear fruit at one point, but because of those things by which they allowed themselves to be overcome, they then became "unfruitful".  For they were drawn away of their own lust [James 1:14].

There are many more such examples in scripture, like Ezekiel 33; Revelation ["if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book"; see also Psalms 69:28], the "I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent", etc.  Paul, himself, speaks on the subject many times:

But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

We must "walk in the Light, even as He is in the Light", we mus "keep [his] saying", etc:

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

The second Death [which is coming] is eternal death from which there is no resurrection.

Scripture has shown that salvation and "eternal life" can be "given up" by those who had once recieved it by Faith, but chose to cast it aside for present situatiuons.  Since it is a "gift" and not a "right".  Just as any gift given to their child by a loving parent may be wasted, ruined, and uncherished and cast away and or ignored.

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 2 Peter 2:15

In order to forsake something, it must first be had in hand.  For to "forsake" means to "renounce, to turn away from entirely".

Balaam was a Prophet of God, yet lured by his own lust and greed, perished.

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Jude 1:11


Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting. Jeremiah 15:6

For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 2 Timothy 4:10

Paul does not imply "OSAS", but rather clearly says:

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

"Let no man deceive himself. ..."

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #5 on: Fri Jul 15, 2011 - 19:46:55 »

p.rehbein

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 07:12:00 »
where do all these novel length posts come from?  Is there a website somewhere which produces pre-typed lessons on various subjects?  I know people don't actually sit there and type all of these comments they are posting.  Shoot, that would take days.  They have to be copy and pasting them from somewhere don't they?  Shouldn't we know where these comments orriginated from and who was the author?

.............just wondering here...............no big deal I supose..............

 ::pondering:: ::shrug::

Offline candy

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 12:17:51 »
I agree with Fish.  No you cannot lose your salvation.  You may not reap rewards in heaven though. 
Candy

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 12:18:32 »
I agree with Fish.  No you cannot lose your salvation.  You may not reap rewards in heaven though. 
Candy

Amen.

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 12:18:32 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 13:26:58 »
So apostasy is not falling away? If that is so why the mamy warnings against apostasy. More is at stake in apostasy than rewards.  

And I emphatically reject the argument that those that do apostasize were never saved in the first place. One cannot fall from where has not been.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 13:34:13 by Jaime »

thethinker

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #10 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 13:39:06 »
Fish wrote:
Quote
When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

Amen fish!

thinker

thethinker

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #11 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 13:45:38 »
So apostasy is not falling away? If that is so why the mamy warnings against apostasy. More is at stake in apostasy than rewards.  

And I emphatically reject the argument that those that do apostasize were never saved in the first place. One cannot fall from where has not been.

Apostasy is narrowly defined in scripture as returning to the "elementary teachings of Christ" Heb. 5:12-6:6). Those who insist on Christ's teachings on faith and repentance in this gospel dispensation have "crucified the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame."

Salvation is by GRACE ALONE!

thinker

Offline Jaime

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #12 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 14:28:12 »
No, apostasy is defined as falling away, especially in the verses you referenced. Yes salvation is by grace through faith.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 14:40:07 by Jaime »

thethinker

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #13 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 17:42:32 »
No, apostasy is defined as falling away, especially in the verses you referenced. Yes salvation is by grace through faith.



Read it again. Apostasy is defined as falling away and to fall away is to revert back to the elementary teachings of Christ. The passage is CLEAR! Jesus taught old covenant truths. Paul taught new covenant truths.

This means that those of you who lay old covenant requirements upon the consciences of men are the ones in danger of apostasizing.

Quote
Yes salvation is by grace through faith.


And faith is the gift of God.  http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/faith-is-a-gift-and-not-a-condition/


thinker

Offline Jaime

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #14 on: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 18:31:22 »
The link you referred to only shows that I think salvation is conditioned on our acceptance. Are you saying we don't have to accept the free gift of salvation? Our accceptance is not earning anything.

Does Jesus knock at the door of our hearts or does he kick the door down?

The writer of Hebrews implores his readers to leave the first principles and press on, and also warns them about falling away. Which is not equivalent to going back to first principles. It is Falling Away from the faith.

In Ephesians 2:8, the free gift is salvation.

Romans 10:17 So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

« Last Edit: Sun Jul 17, 2011 - 22:11:24 by Jaime »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #15 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 00:08:22 »
where do all these novel length posts come from?  Is there a website somewhere which produces pre-typed lessons on various subjects?  I know people don't actually sit there and type all of these comments they are posting.  Shoot, that would take days.  They have to be copy and pasting them from somewhere don't they?  Shouldn't we know where these comments orriginated from and who was the author?

.............just wondering here...............no big deal I supose..............

 ::pondering:: ::shrug::

Yes, the old "cut and paste" trick. You know on the net you can find everything, right?

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 08:43:58 »
[quote[/quote]

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.
[/quote]

Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #17 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 09:31:20 »


Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.

Let's leave the doctrine of purgatory out of this, please.

Once we are saved, we are sealed by the spirit of promise. Nothing and no one can pluck us from the hand of God.

John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 13:27:47 by Lively Stone »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #18 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 10:14:14 »
[quote

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.
[/quote]

Let's leave the doctrine of purgatory out of this, please.

Once we are saved, we are sealed by the spirit of promise. Nothing and no one can pluck us from the hand of God.

John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
[/quote]

I was just pointing out that the person who posted those words "as though by fire" was aligning s/her self with a part of Roman Catholic teaching. Egadds!!!! God forbid that the Roman Church is right on anything!

Offline fish153

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #19 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 10:25:56 »
[quote

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.

Let's leave the doctrine of purgatory out of this, please.

Once we are saved, we are sealed by the spirit of promise. Nothing and no one can pluck us from the hand of God.

John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
[/quote]

Ladonia----  You said

>>>>I was just pointing out that the person who posted those words "as though by fire" was aligning s/her self with a part of Roman Catholic teaching. Egadds!!!! God forbid that the Roman Church is right on anything!
[/quote]<<<<<<


Ladonia----   Just to clarify---

No---the verse I was quoting is not from Roman Catholic teaching---it is from a section of Scripture speaking of the Judgment Seat of Christ:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire
". (1 Cor. 3:13-15)

It is not speaking of so-called "Purgatory"---it is talking about Rewards received for Christian service at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 10:32:17 by fish153 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #20 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 10:39:16 »
[quote

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.

Let's leave the doctrine of purgatory out of this, please.

Once we are saved, we are sealed by the spirit of promise. Nothing and no one can pluck us from the hand of God.

John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.

Ladonia----  You said

>>>>I was just pointing out that the person who posted those words "as though by fire" was aligning s/her self with a part of Roman Catholic teaching. Egadds!!!! God forbid that the Roman Church is right on anything!
[/quote]<<<<<<


Ladonia----

No---the verse I was quoting is not from Roman Catholic teaching---it is from a section of Scripture speaking of the Judgment Seat of Christ:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by f
ire". (1 Cor. 3:13-15)

It is not speaking of so-called "Purgatory"---it is talking about Rewards received for Christian service at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

[/quote]

Sorry, that is part of the Scriptures that the RCC cites when they talk about purgatory. Not a place ,but a cleansing as "though by fire". It's like this, yes we are all saved by the Blood of Christ. But if we die and are not at that moment in a"state of grace"i.e., just moments before had comitted some type of sin, that a purging or purification is required before our soul is allowed into the presence of Almighty God. You may not agree with the interpretation, but that is what is meant by the word purgatory as taught by the Roman Church.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #21 on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 - 10:50:17 »
[quote

When you are BORN into this natural life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  Yes---you can commit suicide and end it prematurely.

When you are BORN AGAIN into eternal life can you reverse it?  No.  Can you throw it away?  No.  Can one commit eternal suicide? No.   Eternal life is a gift of God---you can waste you time here on earth and lose all rewards---but you cannot lose eternal life.  Paul says that there will be those who receive no reward, but are still saved "though as by fire".

No---you cannot lose your salvation.

Your last setence "but are still saved through as by fire", is where the Roman Catholic Church gets it's doctrine of Purgatory. That those souls are not quite pure enough to be in the presence of God, but are not so evil that they merit an eternity in hell. God shows His mercy once again.

Let's leave the doctrine of purgatory out of this, please.

Once we are saved, we are sealed by the spirit of promise. Nothing and no one can pluck us from the hand of God.

John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.

Ladonia----  You said

>>>>I was just pointing out that the person who posted those words "as though by fire" was aligning s/her self with a part of Roman Catholic teaching. Egadds!!!! God forbid that the Roman Church is right on anything!
<<<<<<


Ladonia----

No---the verse I was quoting is not from Roman Catholic teaching---it is from a section of Scripture speaking of the Judgment Seat of Christ:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by f
ire". (1 Cor. 3:13-15)

It is not speaking of so-called "Purgatory"---it is talking about Rewards received for Christian service at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

[/quote]

Sorry, that is part of the Scriptures that the RCC cites when they talk about purgatory. Not a place ,but a cleansing as "though by fire". It's like this, yes we are all saved by the Blood of Christ. But if we die and are not at that moment in a"state of grace"i.e., just moments before had committed some type of sin, that a purging or purification is required before our soul is allowed into the presence of Almighty God. You may not agree with the interpretation, but that is what is meant by the word purgatory as taught by the Roman Church.


And yes, I agree we shall recieve a reward - and that would be being in the presence of God. And as "though by fire" we shall suffer loss. What loss? The loss of
some of the bad things (sin) we did while on the earth. I think we are in agreement here.

Offline minnoo

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #22 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 14:45:09 »
Ive heard preachers on TBN say that we'd suffer loss of rewards - IF we didn't do much good for God
the works burned are sinful things we did so thers not much good left if any

this guy says yea.  Link removed per rule 3.3

Tim said he woodn't pay a nickle for salvation he didn't know IF he had or not
Link removed per rule 3.3
bu then maybe not
 Peter 4:18 "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will happen to the ungodly and the sinner?"{Proverbs 11:31}
John 15:6 If a man doesn't remain in me, he is thrown out as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned

so why duz it say in some verses that we can loose + in others we can't loose
like in Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
"nor things present" could that be our ideas to reject Gods laws + play with the world to hav fun ?
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 21:15:07 by larry2 »

Offline INJ

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #23 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 14:49:18 »
A christian can shipwreck their faith and lose their salvation. But they Lord knows who are his and they will not be taken from his hand.

Offline minnoo

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #24 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 15:13:59 »
in 1990 Jesus saved me + even tho i passed out 100s of How To Be Saved  booklets + told lots of guys the gospel - then spent 5 years searching for ways to make $ online - not praying at all for weeks = i'll think maybe Ive fallin out of grace + lost again = but NOT denying the Power
so since Ive repented of all that - we can say Id put my Godly life on hold for while + Im back to spreading the Gospel + talking to God = i never lost salvation ?

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #25 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 15:17:07 »
A christian can shipwreck their faith and lose their salvation. But they Lord knows who are his and they will not be taken from his hand.

Shipwrecked doesn't mean lost.

God doesn't renege. We do. Once He moves into his temple ---the spirit of a man---He doesn't move out.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #26 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 15:38:57 »
IMO, the key to this topic is a good understanding of the concept of the EARNEST ON SALVATION discussed in:

Ephesians 1:14
2Corinthians 1:22
2Corinthians 5:5

I've written some number of posts about it here, and if anyone is interested, I'm sure I could drag one out that explains it.

Jarrod

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #27 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 16:04:43 »

I think maybe Ive fallin out of grace.


There's only one way to fall from grace and that is told us in Galatians 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
 
This does not say that we fall from salvation, but that God only works in us and through us by grace. Many attempt to keep this or that law to be just before God, and I believe it only produces self-righteousness which our LORD sees as filthy rags. They do not keep the law and would have you subject to the same curse they are.

Galatians 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
 

Offline Eccl12:13

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #28 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 17:08:01 »
Would you consider someone that was enlighted, tasted the word of God, partaker of the Holy Spirit and tasted the heavenly gift someone that has salvation?


.

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #29 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 17:18:34 »


Would you consider someone that was enlighted, tasted the word of God, partaker of the Holy Spirit and tasted the heavenly gift someone that has salvation?
.

Not in the context it was written, nor to whom it was talking of.

Offline minnoo

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #30 on: Sun Jul 24, 2011 - 18:25:27 »
A christian can shipwreck their faith and lose their salvation. But they Lord knows who are his and they will not be taken from his hand.

Shipwrecked doesn't mean lost.

God doesn't renege. We do. Once He moves into his temple ---the spirit of a man---He doesn't move out.

exactly - he says he will never leave you or forsake you
so i may have shipwrecked but didn't abandoned faith  ::pray:: "stones are lively"  thats cute i LUV that

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #31 on: Mon Jul 25, 2011 - 04:52:02 »
A christian can shipwreck their faith and lose their salvation. But they Lord knows who are his and they will not be taken from his hand.

Shipwrecked doesn't mean lost.

God doesn't renege. We do. Once He moves into his temple ---the spirit of a man---He doesn't move out.

exactly - he says he will never leave you or forsake you
so i may have shipwrecked but didn't abandoned faith  ::pray:: "stones are lively"  thats cute i LUV that


Thanks so much, minnoo.  ::tippinghat::

Offline jojo50

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #32 on: Mon Jul 25, 2011 - 12:23:40 »
"Can a Christian lose salvation?"

though many wants to believe .."once saved,always saved", that's a false teaching,in a sense. meaning Jesus dead was a gift for ALL humans,who decides to follow his Teachings,and do HIS Father's WILL,(Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven). when we get baptized,we are blessed with the gift of everlasting life, because of Jesus death. at that point of coming out of the water,we are sinned-free. so at that point,we have the gift of salvation.

NOW!... here's what many refuse to believe,simply because they're NOT TRUELY living the way Jesus taught us to live, and refuse to serve his Father. ONCE we do our first sin,after leaving the baptismal waters, guess what?!...we now lost that gift. meaning we are once again, a sinner. this is why we,(any who claim to follow Jesus and serve his Father Jehovah GOD),... ask daily for forgiveness.

(1).Heb.10:26,27- For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.(many Christians don’t realized from about 10 minutes after coming out of the baptismal water, we might have sin,even if it was a small lie. Be-it willfully or unknowingly. Therefore we made void,what was meant to be.in other words…we’re NOT SAVED,now standing in judgement).

(2).1John :9 ,10-If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

(3).1John 1:7-10, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.  (pray to God for forgiveness of our sins, then they are wiped clean). If not, we’re not forgiven. We also need to make sure we’re walking in God’s way).

being baptized doesn't mean we can sin all we want,then repent on deaths bed. as many so WRONGLY believe and teach. that's playing God for a fool,it's like saying look God i called myself a christian. yet i was totally part of the word,in which you told me NOT to be. now i repent because i think i'm going to die,and you have to accept my repentance. WRONG!... GOD ISN'T TO BE PLAYED WITH,(Gal.6:7 -Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap).

we must do our best to follow Jesus teachings,and serve his Father,UP to the end of our days. in order for that gift of salvation  to be enforced,(Matt.24:13 -But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved). peace



Offline gospel

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #33 on: Mon Jul 25, 2011 - 12:49:57 »
Can a Christian lose salvation?

How could they when a Christian didn't find it in the first place?

Salvation was not lost to be found

We were!

We lost but now we are found...you were lost because you were stolen, kidnapped, in bondage, a prisoner bound by Satan

Jesus ransomed you

Whom the Son sets free is free indeed

We have been delivered from the powers of darkness...

That is the definition of salvation

Even if one participates in the activity of a slave, one is still free by virtue of Emancipation

Legally you are no longer a slave

Legally you can leave the plantation even if you decide to stay there willingly

Legally having accepted Jesus as Lord... you are in fact, free!

What you do with your freedom.....


Well that is another topic altogether! ::shrug::
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 25, 2011 - 13:00:44 by gospel »

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can a Christian lose salvation?
« Reply #34 on: Mon Jul 25, 2011 - 12:56:25 »
Can a Christian lose salvation?

How could they when a Christian didn't find it in the first place?

Salvation was not lost to be found

We were!

We lost but now we are found...you were lost because you were stolen, kidnapped, in bondage, a prisoner bound by Satan

Jesus ransomed you

Whom the Son sets free is free indeed

We have been delivered from the powers of darkness...

That is the definition of salvation

Even if one participates in the activity of a slave, one is still free by virtue of Emancipation

Legally you are no longer a slave

Legally you can leave the plantation even if you stay there willingly

Legally having accepted Jesus as Lord you are free

What you do with your freedom.....


Well that is another topic altogether! ::shrug::

AMEN!

I keep having the image of a bird kept in a cage so long that when his master opens the door, he doesn't even bother to fly out, unaware of what the truth is---that his position has changed, and what his freedom brings.

 

     
anything