Thanks


Not suprising! The church, rather than embracing the equality that we have in Christ, has continued to operate and promote the worldly patriarichal model of family and church.  Thankfully though, God is revealing to many Christians the truth of the divine ideal for family - the egalitarian model.  If the church will embrace this radically, teaching couples how to be equal partners instead of masters & servants, then the divorce rate in the church will go down radically while the world's divorce rate continues to climb.  And rather than toughing out bad marriages, we'll be empowering couples to have happy healthy marriages based on mutual respect and love!


Bible translation is much more difficult than what most people want to admit.  Shoot, many people misunderstand my posts though we share the fact that English is our mother tongue.  As the church matures though, I believe the translations will get better, I pray.


Amen!

Hey Bonnie,

For me the place to start is Genesis 1.  In the beginning God created humanity in His own image, male and female created He them and gave them dominion over the fish, birds, and living creatures of earth. Gen. 1:27-30

So the first thing we need to realize is that both men and women were created in the image of God, not just men.  Women are not inferior in any way, but equal with man, both made in the image of God and thus worthy of honor.

Furthermore, when looking at Eden, many theologians, including myself, not only see Eden as God's creative act, but the Divine Ideal, what God wants for humanity, not just what we've lost, but what we should strive towards, and what we are restored to in and through Christ! Anything less than this Divine Ideal is the result of sin.

BTW, as Americans, our nation is founded upon the principle that all men, as in humanity, are created equal.  The Declaration of Independance states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." 

This statement is the foundational principle that is working in our nation to bring about equality of the races and genders, and it's based upon Gen. 1:27.

Bonnie,

The next scripture that I'd meditate on is the Fall in Gen. 3.  Note that the devil is cursed because of his deception, and the ground is cursed because of man's sin.  The fruit of sin for humanity was death - spiritual separation from God.  The specific results of sin for the woman are in vs. 16.
1.  Increased pain in childbearing
2.  Undue negative desire for her husband
3.  Male dominance - "he will rule over you.'"

The divine ideal is that men and women should be equal with both ruling over creation.  However, due to sin men rule over women.  Patriarchy is a result, fruit of sin.  Should we promote the fruit of sin, or do what we can to lessen it and mitigate the oppression of women? 

A good point to think through is the second point, a woman having a desire for her husband.  In context, this is a negative result of sin.  What is this speaking of?  I believe it reflects a common emotional problem of women desiring a relationship with men to such a great degree that they are often willing to put up with abuse and oppression, the man "ruling" over her. 

I believe God was pretty plain in 1 Tim. 3 which is consistent with the entire OT and NT.  I believe one has to use Gal. 3:27 as a trump verse to make the egalitarian argument.

I appreciate what you're getting at John.  The OT had Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but the NT has no corresponding Law books.  Much of the NT is Descriptive and not necessarily Prescriptive.  For example, much of the NT presumes male dominance in the family and in the church and speaks from that perspective - Descriptive; but does that mean that such passages indicate that such is the way things should be - Prescriptive?  I don't believe so.  Rather, it tends to Christianize such male dominance encouraging males to not be oppressive, and females to not be rebellious, speaking to the current order of things and not seeking to change the current order. 

On the other hand, there is significant evidence that women were accepted as leaders in the church, though such was certainly not the norm due to the culture being so male dominated.  Phillip's daughters prophecied.  Junias was considered a great apostle.  The first evangelist was a woman.  Paul encouraged his readers to honor and respect specific women he named who served with him in the ministry. etc.

I suppose the reason so many people quote Gal.3:28 is because it so well expresses what they, we, see in scripture elsewhere.  We are all one in Christ, children of God, heirs of his righteousness. 

Gal.3:26-29
"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." 

Of course not...women don't age past 39 (or so I've been told).


V

39 was several years past the average life expectency for the first century so that would not disqualify them even if it was the 21st time they were 39.