Why would women need a leadership title in order for their talents and services to be of use to the church?

love,

Sopranette

But why would they need an official church title to do these things?  Unless they're on some sort of payroll.

love,

Sopranette

Now that makes sense to me, Sherman!  Thanks!  I guess I was thinking title=prestige, not exactly keeping in line with the modest, submissive roles of women.  I'm still kind of wondering if "elder" would be an appropriate title.  Maybe "deaconess"?

love,

Sopranette

Perhaps you are not aware of Conservative CoC doctrine.  Women are not allowed to do any of these things when men are present.  The same thing would not apply to many other groups.

I'm glad that helped some.  I do believe though that any title appropriate for a man is also appropriate for a woman.  The word elder actually refers to one who is older and in the Greek is used for both men and women.  I think we differ concerning "submissive"; I believe we should all be "submissive" to one another and provide servant leadership as we're able to.  We're family, we have fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters.  Elders would be fathers and mothers, even grandparents in Christ.  All this arging people do over leadership roles comes from thinking of the Church as an Organization, instead of as a Family!  I suppose for churches that are just social organizations, people worrying about titles and roles is a big deal; but in a family they are not.

BTW, in my family, my wife and I are equal seeking to serve oneanother and provide servant leadership based on our talents, gifts, and availabilty.  I believe an egalitarian model of family is the divine ideal as established in Eden, what God intended and intends for us.  Patriarchy, man ruling over woman is a fruit of sin, actually a curse upon humanity.  This curse effects not only the family, but all of society (religious and civil).

Anyhow, may your church be Family with fathers, mothers, and even grandparents, all serving, respecting, and loving one another as Christ loves us!

I don't think that i the CoC I am familiar with. 

Sherman,

We may not agree on everything but we are in 100% agreement here.  You have an additional manna for your comments.  My marriage is also based on an egalitarian concept.  It has been since the day we said "I do" and that was directly contrary to the complimentarian (just a weakened patriarchal and sinfull concept!) view that was being taught as the Christian marriage in the church we were married in.  We will make 35 years in Feb, Lord willng, and keep on pushing toward that 50 mark!  I know for a fact that a number of those in that congregation who practiced what was being taught are no longer married while most of those who maintained a more egalitarian marriage principle are still together!  Interesting, huh!

Much of the problem we have in the modern church can be directly linked, IMO, to an attitude that became strong and pushed apx 1850 years ago when the male side of the church that existed in the gentile churches began pushing women out of leadership in a very deliberate move to take control and make the church coincide to the customs of females being in full subjection to men both in the church and outside the church.  Then, as the English Bible was released, the translation was held to a male based translation on purpose to maintain the status quo.  We now know from indepth study in the last 30 years that this particular type of translation was not correct and that there was more to Paul's letters to Timothy than just a straight simple translation yields!  However, I do not believe we will see Bible publishers make the corrections in the near future due to the "maximized profit" or "don't make changes however correct they are if they will lower the profit ratios of the company's product!"

When we finally realize that servant leadership is the only model of leadership acceptable to God, then maybe we will see positive growth, marriages that last, and churches based in the Gal 3:26-28 concept where all gifts are utilized, regardless of who you are.

Sherman, I missed most of this thread so forgive me if I ask something that's already been asked.  But is GALATIANS all we have to go on that would make Paul's letters about women's roles different?