Author Topic: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant  (Read 454 times)

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Offline GB

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Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« on: Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 11:13:33 »

In Jer. 31: the Christ, the creator of all things, details a Promise of a New Covenant "After those days".

Here is His New Covenant.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In this Promise, the Christ will, at some point in the future, write HIS Laws on our hearts. So the question I asked is, "How were God's Laws administered in the Old Covenant?

 It seems after study one will find that Gad created a Priesthood, a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel. According to scriptures, the Laws of God were written on stone tablets and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant which only the Levite could, by law, touch. It was their exclusive duty to teach these laws of God to the Children of Israel.

In the same promise of a New Covenant, this same Christ promised to forgive the sin's of His people. So I asked the same question, "how were sins atoned for in the Old Covenant".

It seems after study one will find that God created a Priesthood, a covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel, to perform certain ceremonial, sacrificial "works" to atone for the sins of the people, thus providing forgiveness.

The Christ promised a New Covenant in which HE, Himself, would  take over these duties of the Priesthood.

That is, to administer God's Laws to His people, and to provide for the atonement of their sins.

So I asked myself, Why did the Christ find it necessary to "Change" this Priesthood?

After study I found that these Levite Priests had corrupted God's Laws and were not teaching them to His People, as they were chosen to do.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

and again;

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

This would be terrible wouldn't it? To have a Priesthood specifically chosen to administer God's Laws to Israel, which Israel could not see, by law, for themselves, who were corrupting and omitting much of God's Words written in the Book of the Law.

Hebrews 8 explains.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (The Shepherds) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

This all makes perfect sense and aligns with every scripture written.










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Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« on: Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 11:13:33 »

Offline GB

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 11:37:50 »
But when I listen to religious men teach of the New Covenant of Christ, there is a different version.

They teach that it wasn't the Priesthood and it's duties that changed, rather, that God amended, altered, changed, and even made obsolete, the very Book of the Law that the Christ promised to write on the hearts of His People.

That He came, not to write God's Laws on our hearts, but to remove them all together in one fashion or another. Teach8ing that it wasn't just the Priesthood which became obsolete, but God's entire Law that became obsolete.

 Many use this one verse to support this popular religious doctrine of the land.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? (Levite)

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Many, who come in Christ's Name, teach that this meant God changed the Book of the Law, as opposed to the Christ who said He would write them on the hearts of His People.

They seem to be completely oblivious to the Christ's own Words defining HIS Own New Covenant, and they also seem to ignore completely the following scriptures which define what Law was changed and why it was changed.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

As we learned from study, only a member of the family of Levi could partake in the Priesthood of God, according to the first covenant God made with Israel. For Jesus, the Christ of the Bible who became Flesh, to take over the Priesthood duties as Promised in Jer. 31, there was by necessity, a change made in the Priesthood Law. Because according to the Old Covenant, only a Levite could partake of God's Priesthood, and Jesus was from Judah, a tribe Moses mentioned nothing about concerning Priesthood.

This alternative "New Covenant", in which God's very definition of sin has become obsolete, has become the very foundation of many religions which come in Christ's Name. I am hoping to shed light on these two versions of the New Covenant, in the hopes that men can see the difference, and then make a choice of which version they believe.



 

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #2 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 10:47:45 »
The New Covenant of God.

God said In Jer. 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


So the question I asked is, what covenant would then be made old by this New Covenant?

According to scriptures, it is the covenant that God made with the house of Israel in the day that God took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (Hebrews 8:7-13); which covenant they brake; whose mediator was Moses. I'll refer to this covenant from hereon as the Old Covenant.

The New Covenant had replaced the Old Covenant. It is a new covenant of God with the house of Israel as described and prophesied in Jer.31:31-34. That prophecy was fulfilled at the time of Jesus Christ.

The Old Covenant.

What was the Old covenant about? How was it established or how did it came about?

After the great flood in Noah's time, God had by grace, chosen Abram, whose father was Terah, and was worshiping other gods. It is clear, God had chosen him not because of anything Abraham had done, but by His grace and according to His will and purpose. God had spoken this promise to Abraham which goes: "I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (Gen. 12:2-3)" As with His choosing of Abraham, His promise is independent upon anything and is by grace. If you'll look at it, such promise, while it is given to Abraham, it is really not only a blessing to Abraham, but to his seed, even all families of the earth shall be blessed.

Now, in view of God's purpose in Abraham, God established His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, with Jacob, and with the children of Israel (Exodus 6:4). Having said that, it gives us understanding that in the process of bringing about His purpose, God made covenant promises to Isaac, to Jacob, to the children of Israel, confirming His promise to Abraham.

This is God's covenant with Abraham:

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
.
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18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


The land spoken of in Gen.15:18 is the land of Canaan (Gen. 12:5-7).

Jumping forward to God's covenant with the children of Israel, them who were spoken about in Gen. 15:13:

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.

6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage:
I am the Lord.


Regarding this covenant, this is what scriptures said:

Exodus 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

And so, God fulfilled his covenant with the children of Israel in bringing them out of Egypt. But that is not all that God will do with the children of Israel. He brought them out to bring them to the promised land of Canaan and will take them to Him for a people, and will be to them a God (Exodus 6:8).

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

From the above quoted scriptures, we can see a condition set forth by God unto the children of Israel concerning His covenant with them, that is, if they will obey His voice indeed, and keep His covenant, they shall be a peculiar treasure unto God above all people; and they shall be unto God a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation (Exodus 19:5-6). And the children of Israel agreed.

Considering God's making them of a holy nation and a kingdom of priests, there is the giving them of a land as their possession, that is, Canaan, where they will be established as a nation. But that will not be all there is in making them to be a holy nation. Now, they evidently were a sinful people, unruly and understandably unguided because of no less than 400 years long of being in slavery and oppression in Egypt, by a pagan people and culture, no less. With that, during their exodus from Egypt to the land of promise, that is while they were in the wilderness, God gave them His ten commandments, judgments, and many other precepts, not only to individually transform them, but also collectively as a nation. In Exodus 24:3-4, we read, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.".

Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

And so, in Exodus 24:7, Israel affirms the covenant and in verse 8, Moses formally ratified the (Mosaic) Covenant. After which God gave them, through Moses, directions, instructions, ordinances, involving the Sanctuary, Ark of the Covenant, Table for the Showbread, Gold Lampstand, Tabernacle, Altar of Burnt Offering, Court of the Tabernacle, Care of the Lampstand, Garments for the Priesthood, Ephod, Breastplate, Other Priestly Garments, Consecration of the priests in the order of Aaron, service of the priests, sign of the Sabbath.

Considering now God's making them for Him, a kingdom of priests, included in the precepts He gave them, written in the book of the law, God had established a formal priesthood, in the order of Aaron, the Levitical priesthood. In the office of this priesthood (order of Aaron), includes all the duties and services pertaining to the keeping of the earthly sanctuary, worship, offerings, atonement of sin, and the teaching of all the precepts of the Law to the house of Israel. The keeping and observance of this is what would suppose to make them for God a kingdom of priests.

These are all part of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel during the Exodus. These precepts, He caused Moses to put in writing in a book, the book of the law. All these precepts then is what became to be the law for them, as a nation. The keeping and observance of the law is what would suppose to make them for God unto a holy nation and a kingdom of priests.

What happened next?

Not for long, during the exodus from Egypt to the promised land Canaan, the children of Israel had broken the covenant with God (Exod. 32). God's wrath was upon them who had corrupted themselves. God offered to destroy all the rebellious Israelites that day. But Moses had obtained God's promise to renew the covenant bond with Israel, though they were a stiff-necked people. We see what God did in Exodus 34: God directed him to restore the covenant revelation, by having the Ten Commandments re-inscribed on two new stone tablets, and had given a more restrictive laws of the Code of the Priests (Exodus 35-Lev. 16), the office of the priesthood exclusively given to the loyal sons of Levi, the Levites.

That is the Old covenant, according to my reading of scriptures.

As did the noble Bereans during the time of the apostles, searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether the things preached to them were so, so do likewise and find out.

And so, the Old Covenant that was replaced by the New Covenant, is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, in the day when God led them out of Egypt, about which all precepts were written by Moses in the book of the law, wherein is contained the law of Moses that was given by God in covenant, which includes the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgments, curses, blessings, and everything that concerns the Levitical priesthood.

It came to pass, the time of the New Covenant came. That was about the time when the mediator of the New Covenant came, that is, Jesus Christ. During the time between the establishment of the Old Covenant and the coming of Jesus Christ, God found fault with the children of Israel. They continued not in God's covenant (Hebrews 8:9).   

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


There was fault with the people, the priests and the common Jews alike. The New Covenant, needless to point out, among others, was made, to deal with the fault, and bring about God's purpose for Israel, in view of fulfilling God's promise to Abraham.

So, the Old Covenant, with all that constitutes it, were replaced more than 2000 years ago (time of Jesus), by the New Covenant of God with the house of Israel whose mediator is Jesus Christ (Heb.8:6, Heb. 12:24), with every part that constitutes the former made new into something far better.

How is it far better? Let me just point out some.

In the old covenant, God's laws, were embodied in numerous and various precepts written in stone, in a book. In the new covenant, God writes His laws directly in the mind and heart of the people. In the Old, the teachers of the law were the Levite priests, men which have infirmity, corruptible. In the New, the teacher is the Holy Spirit no less. In the Old, the people follow what the book of the law tells them what good they ought to do. In the New, the people will follow from what the Holy Spirit who dwells in them (in their mind and heart), tells them what good they ought to do. In the Old, the people follow according to the letter of the law. In the latter, the people will follow according to the Spirit. In the Old, the people have as high priest, imperfect men which have infirmity and can't able to continue by reason of death. In the New, the people have a great high priest (Jesus Christ), who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens, who continueth forever. In the Old, there was an earthly sanctuary. In the New, there is the heavenly sanctuary. And so much more better things, for in the Old are shadows, while in the New, the realities.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 10:51:25 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #2 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 10:47:45 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jan 31, 2020 - 05:17:15 »
33 ..... After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people......

What was the law that God spoke about there?  Please note that there is nothing in that entire passage that speaks about a NEW law.  There is simply no way to interpret that verse to say anything about a NEW law. 

"law" -- Hebrew  --  Torah

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jan 31, 2020 - 05:17:15 »
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Offline Michael2012

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #4 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 01:52:44 »
33 ..... After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people......

What was the law that God spoke about there?  Please note that there is nothing in that entire passage that speaks about a NEW law.  There is simply no way to interpret that verse to say anything about a NEW law. 

"law" -- Hebrew  --  Torah

This is my take on that. God's law is what it is. God's law is God's law from beginning to end. So, it remains. God's law is spiritual, and so concerns the spirit, not the physical or material.

In the old covenant, God's law, spiritual as it is, was expressed and embodied in practical commandments and judgments that God had given to the children of Israel, through Moses, in human terms. Scriptures says, the law, as scriptures refer to it, in it are shadows, not the realities themselves. These numerous and various precepts written in the book of the law, are not those which God will write in the minds and hearts of His people in the new covenant. As scriptures states concerning the new covenant, God said "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt". In the new covenant, God will not be writing His law in letters engraved in stone or written in a book. Rather, He will be writing them in the minds and hearts of His people. God will not put shadows in the minds and hearts, but will put the realities instead. Had not God given the believer, the Holy Spirit, to dwell in him? Yes He did. 

We come to see this in scriptures written in Hebrews. The earthly sanctuary in the old covenant which are only a shadow not the reality, was replaced by the real sanctuary in the new covenant, the heavenly sanctuary. That is true also for the sacrifice of atonement, that is, Jesus Christ.

And as we can see, the reality which the law is a shadow of, is that which remains unlike the shadows which are temporal. So, it is without mistake that the law spoken in Hebrews 8:10 or Jer. 31:33 are not the precepts written in the book of the law, but the reality behind the shadow.

I believe that this is God's law that is written in the minds and hearts of His people under the new covenant ~ love, faith, hope. And if you'll notice, these aren't practical commandments like those given under the old covenant in letters, but are spirit, even the Holy Spirit who actually dwells in the hearts of God's people. 
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 02:40:03 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #4 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 01:52:44 »



Offline GB

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #5 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 07:31:29 »
33 ..... After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people......

What was the law that God spoke about there?  Please note that there is nothing in that entire passage that speaks about a NEW law.  There is simply no way to interpret that verse to say anything about a NEW law. 

"law" -- Hebrew  --  Torah

Yes, GOD's Law. But it was, by LAW, the exclusive duty of the Levite Priest to administer God's Law. In fact, the only way for an Israelite to hear God's Law was if a Levite Priest went into the Sanctuary, and read from the Book of the Law.

It was also the Exclusive Duty of the Levitical Priesthood, by Law, to perform sacrificial "works" for the Atonement of sins. It was unlawful for anyone other than a Levite to perform these duties.

The Author of Hebrews knew this. That is why he said the Priesthood Changed. And because God Himself took over these duties from the Priesthood that HE, by Law, gave exclusively to the Levite, there was also, by necessity, a "change, also in the law".

The Hebrews Author goes to explain why. And it is because Jesus, who became our High Priest, was not a Levite. So the Law was changed in order that a member of another tribe of Israel, Judah, could hold the Priesthood office.

Also, God's Priesthood Covenant was with Levi alone, on Israel's behalf. God separated the Tribe of Levi from the Israelites.

Num. 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

48 For the LORD had spoken unto Moses, saying,

49 Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:

Num. 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

God didn't give the Priesthood "LAW" to Israel, but to Levi on Israel's behalf. It was unlawful for any other man than a Levite Priest to perform the "LAW" of the Priests. They couldn't even touch the Ark of the Covenant where the Book of the Law rested.

So the Laws God would write on the hearts of HIS People, would not include these Priesthood duties as the Christ Himself promised to take them over.

So no "new law" as you said. God will write the same Laws on the hearts of HIS People after those days, that HE gave to Israel. These Laws didn't include the duties of the Priesthood then, and it will not include the duties of the priesthood now.

Nothing else changed, at least according to the Scriptures.

What changed was the way in which God's Laws are administered, and the way transgression of these laws are atoned for. Just as HE Promised in Jer. 31.





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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #5 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 07:31:29 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #6 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 10:45:21 »
It was also the Exclusive Duty of the Levitical Priesthood, by Law, to perform sacrificial "works" for the Atonement of sins. It was unlawful for anyone other than a Levite to perform these duties.
Again with the really stupid argument that when Paul referred to "works" of law he was referring to the actions of the priests for atonement. He was not! Just one more thing that you get wrong. And it has driven you to other really stupid positions.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 10:47:27 by 4WD »

Offline GB

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #7 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 13:31:09 »
Again with the really stupid argument that when Paul referred to "works" of law he was referring to the actions of the priests for atonement. He was not! Just one more thing that you get wrong. And it has driven you to other really stupid positions.

"It was also the Exclusive Duty of the Levitical Priesthood, by Law, to perform sacrificial "works" for the Atonement of sins. It was unlawful for anyone other than a Levite to perform these duties."

This may be stupid to you, but Biblical fact just the same. Your unbelief doesn't make this truth void.

Perhaps you can show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Priesthood "works of the Law".

 





Offline lea

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #8 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 14:27:53 »
Yes, GOD's Law. But it was, by LAW, the exclusive duty of the Levite Priest to administer God's Law. In fact, the only way for an Israelite to hear God's Law was if a Levite Priest went into the Sanctuary, and read from the Book of the Law.

It was also the Exclusive Duty of the Levitical Priesthood, by Law, to perform sacrificial "works" for the Atonement of sins. It was unlawful for anyone other than a Levite to perform these duties.

The Author of Hebrews knew this. That is why he said the Priesthood Changed. And because God Himself took over these duties from the Priesthood that HE, by Law, gave exclusively to the Levite, there was also, by necessity, a "change, also in the law".

The Hebrews Author goes to explain why. And it is because Jesus, who became our High Priest, was not a Levite. So the Law was changed in order that a member of another tribe of Israel, Judah, could hold the Priesthood office.

Also, God's Priesthood Covenant was with Levi alone, on Israel's behalf. God separated the Tribe of Levi from the Israelites.

Num. 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

48 For the LORD had spoken unto Moses, saying,

49 Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:

Num. 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

God didn't give the Priesthood "LAW" to Israel, but to Levi on Israel's behalf. It was unlawful for any other man than a Levite Priest to perform the "LAW" of the Priests. They couldn't even touch the Ark of the Covenant where the Book of the Law rested.

So the Laws God would write on the hearts of HIS People, would not include these Priesthood duties as the Christ Himself promised to take them over.

So no "new law" as you said. God will write the same Laws on the hearts of HIS People after those days, that HE gave to Israel. These Laws didn't include the duties of the Priesthood then, and it will not include the duties of the priesthood now.

Nothing else changed, at least according to the Scriptures.

What changed was the way in which God's Laws are administered, and the way transgression of these laws are atoned for. Just as HE Promised in Jer. 31.
I do believe you have that right!

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #8 on: Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 14:27:53 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #9 on: Wed Feb 05, 2020 - 04:29:14 »
So the Laws God would write on the hearts of HIS People, would not include these Priesthood duties as the Christ Himself promised to take them over.

So no "new law" as you said. God will write the same Laws on the hearts of HIS People after those days, that HE gave to Israel. These Laws didn't include the duties of the Priesthood then, and it will not include the duties of the priesthood now.

Just as I thought, you'd say that.

So, according to you, the laws that God writes in the mind and heart of His people under the new covenant didn't include the duties of the Priesthood, and are the same Laws that He gave to Israel. Like what GB? The ten commandments perhaps, saying thou shall not do this and that, and thou shall do this and that (we know what they are). What else? God's judgments written in the book of the law, right? Other than the ten commandments, can you give us some examples of what laws that God gave to Israel which God had supposedly written in your heart?

Is this law among those written in your heart and mind:

3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.


Offline 4WD

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #10 on: Wed Feb 05, 2020 - 05:52:20 »
"It was also the Exclusive Duty of the Levitical Priesthood, by Law, to perform sacrificial "works" for the Atonement of sins. It was unlawful for anyone other than a Levite to perform these duties."

This may be stupid to you, but Biblical fact just the same. Your unbelief doesn't make this truth void.

Perhaps you can show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Priesthood "works of the Law".
Again with a complete lack of understanding.  No one ever, either now or under the law of Moses, was justified by "works of the law".

Rom 3:20  For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Gal 2:16  yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.


Paul never speaks of the actions of the Priests as works of the law.  Clearly you are confused about what Paul is speaking about when he speaks of "works of the law". 

When Paul refers to “law,” he means law codes (the Law of Moses, for example). A law code is simply the complete list or set of commands given to us by God in his role as CREATOR, which includes his rights and role as Lawgiver. We as his creatures are under absolute obligation to obey whatever law code he applies to us. Works of the Law is that action by the individual in obeying the Law.

The actions of the priesthood were not works of the law, rather those actions were for the atonement of the people when they failed to obey the law.

Offline GB

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #11 on: Wed Feb 05, 2020 - 07:55:16 »
I do believe you have that right!

Biblically speaking it is.  I think these truths really opens up Paul's struggle with the Pharisees and his attempt to explain why this part of the Law of Moses faded away, but the weightier matters of the Law they had omitted, did not.

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #12 on: Wed Feb 05, 2020 - 09:17:26 »
 author=4WD link=topic=105338.msg1055155751#msg1055155751 date=1580903540]
Quote
Again with a complete lack of understanding.  No one ever, either now or under the law of Moses, was justified by "works of the law".

I agree that the Levitical Priesthood Law, given exclusively to the Levites on Israel's behalf, was symbolic of the Christ's "work"HE would perform for all mankind. And they were only "ADDED" to God's definition of sin "till the Seed should come" and do this great prophesied "work".

You know these "works of the Law" did not cleanse the actual sin because Paul tells you. But Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna knew of the Christ and HIS Salvation before Paul was even converted. These Priesthood Laws surely did "lead them to Christ".

Quote
Rom 3:20  For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Gal 2:16  yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.


Paul never speaks of the actions of the Priests as works of the law.  Clearly you are confused about what Paul is speaking about when he speaks of "works of the law". 

When Paul refers to “law,” he means law codes (the Law of Moses, for example). A law code is simply the complete list or set of commands given to us by God in his role as CREATOR, which includes his rights and role as Lawgiver. We as his creatures are under absolute obligation to obey whatever law code he applies to us. Works of the Law is that action by the individual in obeying the Law.

Paul knew of the difference between the "law of works", and the "Law of Faith" even if you don't. As a Pharisee he would have also known that God Separated Levi from all the others tribes of Israel, and made a Covenant specifically with them, and no one else, which included Laws that only they were commanded, and allowed to perform. I'm not so sure Paul wasn't the author of Hebrews 7-10, which details all of this quite perfectly.

quote]The actions of the priesthood were not works of the law, rather those actions were for the atonement of the people when they failed to obey the law.[/quote]

So we can call them "Actions of the Law" for atonement if you want, or "Deeds of the Law" for atonement, it is all the same.

The Biblical fact is there were "works" required by the Law of Moses, to be performed exclusively by the Levite Priests, before ANY MAN's sins could be cleansed, thereby justifying him.

And Paul is speaking of the Jews, about specifically "being justified" by actions of the law.

You didn't answer the question I asked; "show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Levite Priesthood actions of the Law".

Just show me in the Law of Moses how a man was to be justified of his sins "apart" from the Levitical Priesthood, that Abraham didn't have.













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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #13 on: Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 06:24:18 »

I agree that the Levitical Priesthood Law, given exclusively to the Levites on Israel's behalf, was symbolic of the Christ's "work"HE would perform for all mankind. And they were only "ADDED" to God's definition of sin "till the Seed should come" and do this great prophesied "work".

You know these "works of the Law" did not cleanse the actual sin because Paul tells you. But Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna knew of the Christ and HIS Salvation before Paul was even converted. These Priesthood Laws surely did "lead them to Christ".

Paul knew of the difference between the "law of works", and the "Law of Faith" even if you don't.
First, please show me where in the Bible you read anything about the "Levitical Priesthood Law".  Such a concept does not even exist in the Bible.  I can only presume that it is but one more of your really weird, and wrong, analyses or interpretations.

Second, if I am not mistaken, you think that the "law of faith" is what Christ did in His sacrifice on the cross.  If so, you are wrong.  I think I am beginning to see some of what your problem is.  You have come to a totally unbiblical interpretation and meaning of the words "law" and "works" and probably "covenant".

Quote from: GB
As a Pharisee he would have also known that God Separated Levi from all the others tribes of Israel, and made a Covenant specifically with them, and no one else, which included Laws that only they were commanded, and allowed to perform. I'm not so sure Paul wasn't the author of Hebrews 7-10, which details all of this quite perfectly.
There was no covenant made specifically with the Levites.  Here again, your screwed up interpretation or meaning given to words is simply wrong.

Quote from: GB
You didn't answer the question I asked; "show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Levite Priesthood actions of the Law".
I did; but because of your really deficient and botched up interpretation and meaning of words you didn't understand the answer.

You seriously need to do some studying about law and about covenant about atonement, etc. from some of those biblical scholars that you eschew and reject.  Perhaps, just perhaps, you would then begin to understand God's word.  As it is, you are terribly confused.  And it shows with nearly everything you post.

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #14 on: Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 09:49:55 »
 author=4WD link=topic=105338.msg1055155835#msg1055155835 date=1580991858]
Quote
First, please show me where in the Bible you read anything about the "Levitical Priesthood Law".  Such a concept does not even exist in the Bible.  I can only presume that it is but one more of your really weird, and wrong, analyses or interpretations.

Lev. 6:7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

8 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.

Lev. 7:37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;

38 Which the LORD commanded Moses in mount Sinai, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai.

These were some of the Priesthood Laws given exclusively to the Levites. These are the "Works of the Law" that was required for atonement of sins "Till the Seed should come".

It's pretty hard to miss-interpret "This is the Law" of the burnt offerings given to the Levite Priest's, Aaron and his sons.

You asked for evidence in the Bible of "Levitical Priesthood Law". I only showed a small sampling to keep the post short. I can provide more if you want.

Quote
Second, if I am not mistaken, you think that the "law of faith" is what Christ did in His sacrifice on the cross.

You are mistaken.


Quote
There was no covenant made specifically with the Levites.  Here again, your screwed up interpretation or meaning given to words is simply wrong.

Malachi 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

You preach to the world "There was no covenant made specifically with the Levites".

But God says; My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name."

There isn't a lot of ways to miss-interpret; "My Covenant was with him" or "ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi".


Quote
I did; but because of your really deficient and botched up interpretation and meaning of words you didn't understand the answer.

The question was; "show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Levite Priesthood actions of the Law".

You have presented nothing other than your own words. Please present your evidence of my "deficient and botched up interpretation and meaning of words" with something more than your own words.

Quote
You seriously need to do some studying about law and about covenant about atonement, etc. from some of those biblical scholars that you eschew and reject.  Perhaps, just perhaps, you would then begin to understand God's word.  As it is, you are terribly confused.  And it shows with nearly everything you post.

Fascinating. In the Bible Jesus and Paul warns of religious men. This would include self proclaimed "Bible Scholars". There is warnings about being Partial in the Law, omitting God's Word from our minds, teaching for doctrines the Commandments of Men. Even warnings of men who come in Jesus Name, who call HIM Lord, Lord who will deceive many.

But there is not one verse in the entire Bible that warns about God's Word being deceitful, or dishonest, or untrustworthy.

So if my interpretation of "My Covenant was with Him" is wrong. How do you interpret these Words?

And if my interpretation of  "This is the law of the burnt offering" that God Commanded Aaron and his sons to perform, is wrong. Then how do you interpret these Word's?



Offline GB

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Re: Christ's New Coveant VS. Man's New Covenant
« Reply #15 on: Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 13:46:22 »
author=4WD link=topic=105338.msg1055155835#msg1055155835 date=1580991858]

Quote
Quote
First, please show me where in the Bible you read anything about the "Levitical Priesthood Law".  Such a concept does not even exist in the Bible.  I can only presume that it is but one more of your really weird, and wrong, analyses or interpretations.

OK!

Lev. 6:7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

8 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it.

22 And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.

25 Speak unto Aaron and to his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering: In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the LORD: it is most holy.

Lev. 7:37 This is the law of the burnt offering, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings;

38 Which the LORD commanded Moses in mount Sinai, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai.

These were some of the Priesthood Laws given exclusively to the Levites. These are the "Works of the Law" that was required for atonement of sins "Till the Seed should come".

It's pretty hard to miss-interpret "This is the Law" of the burnt offerings given to the Levite Priest's, Aaron and his sons.

You asked for evidence in the Bible of "Levitical Priesthood Law". I only showed a small sampling to keep the post short. I can provide more if you want.

Quote
Second, if I am not mistaken, you think that the "law of faith" is what Christ did in His sacrifice on the cross.

You are mistaken.

Quote
There was no covenant made specifically with the Levites.  Here again, your screwed up interpretation or meaning given to words is simply wrong.


Malachi 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

You preach to the world "There was no covenant made specifically with the Levites".

But God says; My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name."

There isn't a lot of ways to miss-interpret; "My Covenant was with him" or "ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi".


Quote
I did; but because of your really deficient and botched up interpretation and meaning of words you didn't understand the answer.

The question was; "show in the Law of Moses how men are to be justified of their sins apart from the Levite Priesthood actions of the Law".

You have presented nothing other than your own words. Please present your evidence of my "deficient and botched up interpretation and meaning of words" with something more than your own words.


Quote
You seriously need to do some studying about law and about covenant about atonement, etc. from some of those biblical scholars that you eschew and reject.  Perhaps, just perhaps, you would then begin to understand God's word.  As it is, you are terribly confused.  And it shows with nearly everything you post.

Fascinating. In the Bible Jesus and Paul warns of religious men. This would include self proclaimed "Bible Scholars". There is warnings about being Partial in the Law, omitting God's Word from our minds, teaching for doctrines the Commandments of Men. Even warnings of men who come in Jesus Name, who call HIM Lord, Lord who will deceive many.

But there is not one verse in the entire Bible that warns about God's Word being deceitful, or dishonest, or untrustworthy.

So if my interpretation of "My Covenant was with Him" is wrong. How do you interpret these Words?


That's exactly what I thought.

You are quick to throw stones at others, not to eager to look in the mirror.






 

     
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