There also seems to be an element of shepherding/mentoring/discipling that needs to come into play.

If I am not willing to take the sinner by the hand and lead him aright, then I am not the one who needs to try to teach him that he's sinning.

But, yet, because of the way we are told to approach a person with whom we have a problem, it is definitely us, ourselves, who must at least start the ball rolling.

So I guess that means we'd better open our minds and our hearts and be prepared to get our white gloves dirty.  When you have to step out into the dirty old world to take a brother by the hand, you're not going to clean it all up and make the mud "glovey".  You're going to get the gloves muddy.

I re-read the original post several times and still couldn't find what was wrong.

If someone comes to you and confesses that they are having an affair - and they know you're a believer - what is their response to you confronting them with their sin?

Is that the problem? I sense that you're struggling with something and I'm thinking it's maybe that they don't respond the way you want.

Let your heart be comforted. You are called to deliver the message. If you do that, you've been obedient. Think of all the OT prophets who were called to deliver a less than positive message to God's people. Their obedience didn't come from the response of the people. They were obedient because they delivered the message.

Seeking, I think Soterion has captured perfectly what the problem is that led me to start this thread.  He says:


I am unsure in my own desire to help my brothers and sisters struggling with a sin issue because I feel that I am often condemned for doing so.  One can actually see it closely in the forums.  Christians are quick to criticize the one who calls sin "sin".  The one who calls it gets labeled as "holier-than-thou", "judgmental" or <gasp> "legalistic".    I've seen this happen with others who speak out in love to a brother and sister against "sin".  It seems more difficult to be a christian among christians than it is among nonbelievers!   

4Christ -

Define "confront".


It seems you are seeking permission from a forum to confront. Don't. I'm going to shoot straight with you. Put your tough skin on.

Seems to me they already know that they've sinned (in the ex. of the confessed adulterer - "confess" being the tell-tale action that they know they have sinned). You would just be telling them what they already know. They aren't sharing with you because they are bragging. They are sharing their sins with you because their heart is burdened. If they have come to you to unburden their sins, it is too late for you to confront.

Maybe what they want to know is: Can you help me figure out how to end this, without hurting anyone else?

Or, will you still love me, even though I've messed up? Will God still love me, even though I've messed up?  If your love is gone, if they learn from you that agape love is not agape after all, then why should they change their ways? Will not Jesus withdraw His love, also? IOW, what is the point of being a Christ-follower, since I cannot be perfect and sinless?


Dealing with sin in a fellow Christ-follower calls for action. But it does not always call for confrontation. We are called to be compassionate, grace-filled, loving. Be all those things, exhaust all those things, before choosing confrontation. I believe that confrontation is only rarely called for. Amazing things can be done with a listening ear, a shoulder to cry/lean on, and prayer. Confrontation is, and should be, a last resort, and always done with the utmost prayerful, humble actions of a group of "qualified" (wise, spiritual, not necessarily "elders") people. Not by one lone rogue. Discipline is a different issue.

Truthfully, and objectively, it seems a little choleric, and possibly a little self-righteous, to me.

When does one have a clear enough eye to confront another? God is completely and better able to do that for others without you or me. Does He use others? Of course. But Jesus said be clear-eyed yourself before you pick at another's eye.

Finally, I would ask you, is this about them, or about you?


(Did I just confront you??)

K pappy, all I can say is    I do believe that if we are walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh; we will be compassionate and loving in our reprove toward our brother or sister- as Jesus was.  

Phoebe,

First of all Phoebe is one of my favorite Bible people.  She was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea right?  Beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them.  That she is even mentioned in the NT shows that God does indeed have use of women in the church and in leadership roles!     Amen?

Now, back to the thread.   

As a black woman, I had to develop a thick skin years ago.  LOL  But, you do make my point.  Because I talk about "confronting" sin among my bretheren, you see it as self-righteous.  Well Phoebe, we are righteous!  We are righteous because our Lord shed His precious blood, we believed and received HIS righteousness.

Having said all that, can we allow our own brothers and sisters to make a mockery of His sacrifice by allowing sin among us?  If we can, then I will have to confess my error and repent.  But I know that it is not true.

I'll try to define "confront" as you asked.    Confront is this...  To face a bretheren in love with the knowledge of truth so that sin is removed and vital relationships are both maintained and restored.     Some scriptures that demonstrate confrontation or call us to practice it as believers...

Mat 16:23  But he turned and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savorest not the things that be of God but those that be of men.

Luk 4:8  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

I Cor 5: 6-7 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?  Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

James 5:20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Person comes to me and says, I am committing adultery. I say first, stop sinning. Now, what are you going to do about this problem. The sin must stop.

FTL

Joh 8:11  The woman answered, "No one, sir." Jesus said, "I don't condemn you either. Go! From now on don't sin."

4Christ -

I've been reading over this thread several times trying to better understand exactly what it is you are asking. Are you asking about the right/obligation to confront, or are you asking how to help a fellow-believer to get back and stay on the right track? While the one (getting back) MAY include the other (confronting), it is not exclusive. One may get back on the right track w/o confrontation. The way you worded the subject for the thread tells me that you want to confront. You could have said "Dealing with...", but you chose "Confronting..." That "want to confront" means something. It is a red flag, unless you are hearing a call to leadership.

You compared self-righteous with being righteous by Christ's blood. Righteous and self-righteous are diabolically opposed. You mentioned allowing those who sin to be among us as making a mockery of Christ's sacrifice. Who among us has no sin? There would be no church if we were expected to be perfect, if there were no grace to cover. We all sin continually. Is grace something that one one puts on and takes off like a raincoat? Is the adulterer farther outside of God's grace than the gossiper? We all struggle.

Perhaps the problem I'm having is that when confronting a Christ-sibling who has come to you to share–in confidence, I presume–a current sin with which they are struggling, you want to confront them with Scripture with an expectation of something in return. Of what? An expectation that they will... stop? go forward and confess to the church? I'm not clear on what you think should happen, and when you think it should happen. Do you not believe that God's Spirit is already working on them, and this is why they have come to you? If the sin were drug addiction, or alcoholism, rather than adultery, would you expect them to be able to stop at the moment you show them Scripture that says we are to have no other idols? Of course, not. An addict doesn't get that way overnight. Neither does an adulterer. It is a struggle, a huge struggle, walking away from sin. Satan will not so easily relinquish one. Harold says, "Stop." That might be easy that day, but then tomorrow comes, and the sin rears its ugly head. It calls to you, screams to you, and you obey. Like stopping smoking, breaking from sin is not always as easy as "stop". It's more often a one-day-, one-prayer-at-a-time process.

Those who confide in you already know what they are doing is wrong. That's why they have come to you–to unburden some of this load. You want to show them Scripture that they are sinning, Scripture that they already know. Knowledge of the Word alone will not fix them, or there wouldn't be a problem. They want help, not a sermon.

If it is your own close friend, yes, come along side her, and take her hand to lead her in the right direction. Visualize the difference. Confrontation is face-to-face, offensive and defensive. If you push, they push. If you pull, they pull. Little is accomplished. But when two people are both on the same side, heading in the same direction, hand-in-hand, or arms linked, and every word, every action is saturated with agape love, it is so much easier to lead them, as opposed to pushing or pulling, in the right direction.

Occasionally, what you say is required, confrontation with someone who has a slanted and limited grasp on Scripture's meanings. Leadership handles those situations, because they usually require confrontation that may require discipline.

That said, it seems to me that you are really not looking for these kinds of answers about how, but asking why aren't other Christ-siblings in your fellowship doing something about the sins in the lives of others. (Consider that others may be asking why aren't you doing something. Everyone is waiting for someone else to do the "dirty work".)


I think there are several reasons we no longer see as much "confrontation":

1) Fear. a) We are afraid that we are casting stones (rather than seeking change for another, IOW, we doubt our own motives) and, recognizing our own sins, keep those stones in our pockets. And rightly so. b) We have seen it done so badly in years past, that we are gun-shy. We have seen more driven farther away, than drawn closer in. c) If I speak out about Joe's/Susie's affair, he/she may confront me about my own idols of gossip, gluttony, lying, cheating, and selfishness.

2.) Trust. a) We trust God to His work in His time. b) We trust leadership to lead, to do their job.

3.) Grace. a) For some, a misunderstanding of grace. b) For others, a better understanding of grace.


My apologies for being so wordy. I detest long posts, esp. when they are mine. Satellite is not working well today, and it makes for some choppy thoughts. My one-line summation: Lead The Way to Higher Ground.

God's grace to you as you wrestle, and bring us to wrestle, with valid, hard questions.