Welcome, Guest. Login or register to use the forums.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2010, 05:50:35 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Bookstore | Support | Newsletter


+  Christian Forums
|-+  Christian Interests
| |-+  Theology Forum
| | |-+  Confronting Sin in the Body of Christ?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Confronting Sin in the Body of Christ?  (Read 2112 times)
phoebe
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 300
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 5360

FlowerFarmer

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2007, 11:50:43 AM »

"Hirelings"??
Logged

"IMO"

I WATCH FOX NEWS.

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ
Christian Forums
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2007, 11:50:43 AM »

 
 Logged
Harold
Love Peace Joy
Hero
*****

Manna: 144
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 3037


Therefore let us stop passing judgment

Blog entries (4)

View Profile
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2007, 12:08:23 PM »

"Hirelings"??


Those hired to watch the flock, or pastors to watch the flock, old English stories called them hirelings. Someone hired/selected to do a job.

FTL

Mr. Webster:

HI'RELING, a. Serving for wages; venal; mercenary; employed for money or other compensation.
Logged

Rom 1:17  For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." (NIV)

I neither agree nor disagree with any thing posted on the board, I am interjecting thoughts not my beliefs, unless so stated.
Christian Forums
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2007, 12:08:23 PM »

 Logged
phoebe
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 300
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 5360

FlowerFarmer

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2007, 12:54:10 PM »

"Hirelings"??


Those hired to watch the flock, or pastors to watch the flock, old English stories called them hirelings. Someone hired/selected to do a job.

FTL

Mr. Webster:

HI'RELING, a. Serving for wages; venal; mercenary; employed for money or other compensation.


So, are you saying that "hirelings", which seems to be a derogatory term and one not used in Scripture (although Scripture does make reference to supporting/compensating laborers), cannot also be one with "authority" (your word, not mine) as a leader, elder, pastor, teacher, preacher, etc?

And what makes you think "hirelings" "chase" sheep? (as opposed, I assume, to "leading") A shepherd, whether hired or not, knows it is a waste of time to chase sheep. The shepherd leads, and his well-trained Australian Shepherd herding dog (partial to the Aussie) will keep them from straying or getting lost by running along behind them, nipping at their heels, keeping them together. Perhaps the "hireling" is more like the herding dog than the shepherd.


Here's the difference, Harold. A "hireling" is "employed FOR compensation", per your Webster's definition. A person compensated by the local church while they do the work of the LORD is not working FOR compensation. They are not employees of the church. They are working FOR God. HE is their Boss. Too many don't understand this, and too many preachers and their families have paid a very high price for this error in understanding.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 01:05:17 PM by phoebe, Reason: typo » Logged

"IMO"

I WATCH FOX NEWS.

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ
Harold
Love Peace Joy
Hero
*****

Manna: 144
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 3037


Therefore let us stop passing judgment

Blog entries (4)

View Profile
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2007, 01:51:21 PM »

"Hirelings"??


Those hired to watch the flock, or pastors to watch the flock, old English stories called them hirelings. Someone hired/selected to do a job.

FTL

Mr. Webster:

HI'RELING, a. Serving for wages; venal; mercenary; employed for money or other compensation.


So, are you saying that "hirelings", which seems to be a derogatory term and one not used in Scripture (although Scripture does make reference to supporting/compensating laborers), cannot also be one with "authority" (your word, not mine) as a leader, elder, pastor, teacher, preacher, etc?

And what makes you think "hirelings" "chase" sheep? (as opposed, I assume, to "leading") A shepherd, whether hired or not, knows it is a waste of time to chase sheep. The shepherd leads, and his well-trained Australian Shepherd herding dog (partial to the Aussie) will keep them from straying or getting lost by running along behind them, nipping at their heels, keeping them together. Perhaps the "hireling" is more like the herding dog than the shepherd.


Here's the difference, Harold. A "hireling" is "employed FOR compensation", per your Webster's definition. A person compensated by the local church while they do the work of the LORD is not working FOR compensation. They are not employees of the church. They are working FOR God. HE is their Boss. Too many don't understand this, and too many preachers and their families have paid a very high price for this error in understanding.


We are bought at a price, we belong to our master. He leads the flock, the hireling walks behind the flock to watch over them. Walk behind a flock of sheep for a day or so; you'll get the drift. It is their job to care for the sheep that belong the Shepherd. Keepers of the flock. Compensation, well my Great Shepherd has a really good retirement plan, the pay is great also, blessings not money. Everything that belongs to my Master I love and care for deeply.

It is perspective I guess.

FTL
Logged

Rom 1:17  For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." (NIV)

I neither agree nor disagree with any thing posted on the board, I am interjecting thoughts not my beliefs, unless so stated.
DEADtoSIN
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 8

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2009, 12:25:55 PM »

The Sins (willful transgressions against our knowledge of what is right), must stop being lived in before one can even come to Christ.  Christ will not come into an unrepentant, sinful heart.  Repentance is the ceasing of a life of sin, and a heart changed over to love God and obey His commandment to love Him first and our neighbor as ourself.  The purpose of the commandment is "love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith" (1 Timothy 1:5).  Where is the heart made pure and the conscience made good?  We purify our own hearts by obeying the truth (1 Peter 1:22). This happens in repentance, the death of the old man and body of sin!  The Sin Must Stop!

For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear (Pure) in this matter. (2 Corinthians 7:10-11)

deadtosin.org

thesinmuststop.org
Logged
Tantor
Guest
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2009, 12:37:42 PM »

Sin is not always willful... think of the man that held out his hand out of reflex to steady the Ark of the Covenant.
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2009, 12:37:42 PM »

 Logged
zoonance
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 226
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 7934


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2009, 12:47:15 PM »

The first step is to call sin sin.
Logged
DEADtoSIN
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 8

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2009, 12:58:37 PM »

I agree, sin isn't always willful, that is why I pointed out the willful ones are those which need to be repented of (stopped) in initial repentance...

Psalm 19:13
Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;Let them not have dominion over me. Then I shall be blameless, And I shall be innocent of great transgression.

Numbers 15:30
‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the LORD, and he shall be cut off from among his people.

Psalm 119:10-12
With my whole heart I have sought You;
         Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
Your word I have hidden in my heart,
         That I might not sin against You.

Blessed are You, O LORD!
         Teach me Your statutes.

Just like the message so prevelant in todays churches (all denominations), the false message "strengthens the hands of the wicked" and most nobody "turns back from his wickedness"

Jeremiah 23:13-14
 “And I have seen folly in the [false] prophets of Samaria:
      They prophesied by Baal
      And caused [led; influenced] My people Israel to err.
      Also I have seen a horrible thing in the [false] prophets of Jerusalem:
      They commit adultery and walk in lies;
      They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,
      So that no one turns back from his wickedness.

      All of them are like Sodom to Me,
      And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.


Presumptuous (willful) sin, clearly must stop if one is to consider them-self a Child of God... and this happens in the Baptism of Repentance, the Baptism of Death, the Death of the Old Man with his passions and desires...

DEADtoSIN.org
Logged
Tantor
Guest
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2009, 01:05:29 PM »

I agree, sin isn't always willful, that is why I pointed out the willful ones are those which need to be repented of (stopped) in initial repentance...

The fellow that steadies the ark had no chance to repent...
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2009, 01:05:29 PM »

 
 Logged
DEADtoSIN
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 8

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2009, 01:17:18 PM »


The first step is to call sin sin.


"sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4)

"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."  (James 1:14-15)

"for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,  who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." (Romans 2:14-16)

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them...” (Hebrews 10:16)

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it." (1 Corinthians 10:13)

A Christian is someone who has ceased disobeying their conscience, and follows the Law of Love written on their heart by God...

DEADtoSIN.org

Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2009, 01:17:18 PM »

 Logged
jiggyfly
Senior Member
****

Manna: 41
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1188

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2009, 05:34:09 AM »

1Peter 4:8 Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins. 

Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up quarrels, but love covers all offenses.
Logged
DEADtoSIN
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 8

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2009, 12:07:54 PM »

Yes, love is important.... but what kind of love "covers a multitude of sins"?

Christ said the most important love is towards God:

Matthew 22:37-38
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment.

And like this, second in line:

Matthew 22:39-40
And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

John touches on this:

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

How do we know we love God, and thus are truly able to love others?

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 2:4-6
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

How does this type of love "cover a multitude of sins?

1 Timothy 1:5
Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith...

How exactly does this obedient, Christlike love clear our sins?

1 Peter 1:22-23
Since YOU have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again[is the "old man" dead?], not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

This love that "covers sins" is that which is from a pure heart, and the heart is made pure by obeying the truth (Christ and His Doctrine).  We are to love God first and our neighbor as ourself - as Christ has loved us.

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

This -- and only this -- Love will Cover Sins...

DEADtoSIN.org

« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 12:14:09 PM by DEADtoSIN » Logged
jiggyfly
Senior Member
****

Manna: 41
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1188

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2009, 04:21:22 PM »

I guess my stance on this is that I trust in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. I feel that those who focus on sin will never truely be free from it whether it be one's own sin or the sin of someone else. Remember Lot and that he pitched his tent facing towards Sodom and it was just a matter of time before he lived in the city limits.

All the do's and don'ts are for religious people and produce nothing but religious behavior.

Here's a little sermonette I read the other day.
Abide In Me by A.B. Simpson

Christianity may mean nothing more than a religious system. The Christian life may mean nothing more than an earnest and honest attempt to follow and imitate Christ. The Christ life is more than these and expresses our actual union with the Lord Jesus Christ. He is actually in us as the life and source of all our experience and work. This conception of the highest Christian life is at once simpler and more sublime than any other.

We do not teach that the purpose of Christ's redemption is to restore us to Adamic perfection, for if we had it we should lose it tomorrow. Rather, it is to unite us with the second Adam, and to lift us up to a higher plane than our first parents ever knew. This is the only thing that can reconcile the warring elements of diverse schools of teaching with respect to Christian life. The Spirit of God will lead us to have no controversy respecting mere theories. Rather, we are simply to hold to the person and life of Jesus Christ Himself and the privilege of being united to Him through living in constant dependence upon His keeping power and grace.
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2009, 04:21:22 PM »

 Logged
DEADtoSIN
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 8

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2009, 05:25:09 PM »

True, "do's and dont's" are for religious people, like the pharisees... but, true religion is from the heart, but still of reverence and obedience...

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine [Christ's Doctrine] to which you were delivered.

1 Peter 1:22
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart...

If we love God we will obey him.  A True Disciple will never argue in favor for sin, they will stand firmly against it... Only the pure in heart will see God, and we are purified by obedience to the Truth, not just accepting it as good facts...  

Matthew 7:24-27
“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

John 14:21-23
He who has [hears] My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

James 1:21-29
Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Clearly Christ and His Apostles taught that one must obey God from their heart if they are to make it into the Kingdom.  Those aren't my words... if someone rejects them, they aren't rejecting me...
Logged
jiggyfly
Senior Member
****

Manna: 41
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1188

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2009, 02:39:54 AM »

Guess we see things a little differently, Christ said "without Me you can do nothing" so I dont see repentance, obedience and humbleness as requisites for being ajoined to Christ, I see them as results of being connected with Christ.

Col 1:19-22 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross.  This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions,  yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. 
Logged
Confronting Sin in the Body of Christ? - Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Grace-Centered Christian Forums
Bible concordance | abortion ticker | is God real? | galaga | play tetris | copter game | mini golf games | arcade | donkey kong | Christian marriage help | articles | privacy
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC