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Author Topic: Did Jesus teach the "prosperity gospel"?  (Read 742 times)
idiglove
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« on: October 27, 2009, 11:37:39 PM »

?
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"Anyone who hears MY teaching and puts it into PRACTICE is likened unto a wise person, building his house upon the rock". --Jesus
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« on: October 27, 2009, 11:37:39 PM »

 
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larry2
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 06:30:29 AM »


If you believe that the word of God is of Jesus, then that which is in it are Jesus' teachings.

2 Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3 John 1:2  Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth

I did not put the previous verse endorsing the doctrines of Brother Oral Roberts, or many other TV preachers concerning prosperity. If most prospered as their souls prospered, some might come up bankrupt while supposing that gain is godliness.

1 Timothy 6:5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1 Timothy 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

1 Tim 4:10. For, therefore, we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. Repeating  (2 Cor 11:30) using the NIV > Paul says, if I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness - It seems the sufferings Paul endured were counted by him as prosperous to his soul and life. He considered himself to be prospering and healthy only in the context of how his life was prospering in things pertaining to winning Christ. Surely it has to be evident by now that Paul at this time did not possess material wealth or bodily health, which many preachers today profess will be the normal result of a life lived for Christ.
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 06:30:29 AM »

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segell
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 12:17:43 PM »

No.
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Ephesians 2:8-10  Who saves, how He saves, why He saves.

"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
davidandme
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 12:22:37 PM »

?
Prosperity in the long run, yes.  But no necessarily earthly short term prosperity.
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Jesus said:  I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the father except through Me.  John 14:6
Sardine Can
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 12:40:53 PM »

?

Ask this guy:  http://www.creflodollarministries.org/Broadcast/BroadcastCenter.aspx
I once heard him thanking his congregation for his SECOND Rolls Royce.  Frowning
But Jesus had no place to lay His head. Think about it. Pondering

"Creflo has two Rolls-Royce’s (which he tells his congregation was given to him --  the church purchased the first one for him). He flies in a $5 million private jet to his speaking engagements in the US to Europe (the church also owns a Gates Learjet. Estimated value: $985,000). Dollar met his wife at West Georgia College in Carrollton and graduated in 1984 with a bachelor's degree in education. They have five children, three girls and two boys. He lives in a $1 million home behind iron gates in an upscale Atlanta neighborhood and owns another worth $1.27 million). The church has amassed a fortune in real estate, mostly in College Park. Like other word faith teachers Dollar is often accompanied by bodyguards in public. "

From: letusreason.org



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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 12:42:27 PM »

Absolutely NOT.
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 12:42:27 PM »

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gospel
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »

As a former homeless, impoverished person, I resent Holier than thou preaching extolling the virtues of poverty. God has blessed me to turn my life from one of poverty and despair to one of prosperity and fruitfulness....I am not rich by any means, but it took knowing that God wants and desires for me to prosper as a source of inspiration, strength and faith! I had to learn that God does not desire that we be in poverty.
Many many other people have the same perspective as I, we have been indoctrinated with years and years of the virtue of the poverty gospel which you and others wave as a banner of your self imposed piety.
 
This poverty gospel is a lie from the pit of hell, used in the past by wicked men to keep poor people satisfied with lives of poverty waiting for the day they can walk the golden streets of heaven while the wicked men themselves enjoy all the abundant blessings of the land that God has given to every man right here on earth. Beginning in Rome on to England, to American slaves and South American Indians, priests were used to extol the virtues of poverty upon the masses to lull them into a complacent sleep of looking foward to heaven while greedy men exploited and oppressed them.
  
Beyond that poor people and poor churches are totally ineffective in reaching the world much less helping those in need.

Thank God for those men and women of God who have studied the Word and exposed this blatant and outlandish lies of the devil that defies the Word of God.
Jesus is the Word. The Law and the Prophets speak of Him. The Word of God makes it abundantly clear God desires that we live well, prosper and have good lives lacking no good thing.

Any gospel that teaches otherwise is a false gospel. The only truth in such a gospel is that we should learn to be content with whatever we have and that we should not make riches our focus but rather the Kingdom. Otherwise God desires that we use our giftings and talents to attain all the best He has Created. That is why Heaven is not described as a tenement slum but rather as a lavish gloriously rich city and why Jesus described the places prepared for us as Mansions!

I urge all the readers of this thread to study all the scriptures I have posted and judge my writings based upon those scriptures

That stated thank you all for this opportunity to dispel the lies of the devil
 

A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest—
and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man

Proverbs 24:33,34

He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored.
Proverbs 13:18

The wealth of the rich is their fortified city, but poverty is the ruin of the poor.

Proverbs 10:15
He who works his land will have abundant food, but the one who chases fantasies will have his fill of poverty.Proverbs 28:19
Do not love sleep, or you will become poor; Open your eyes, and you will be satisfied with food. Proverbs 20:13

Now Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver and in gold
Genesis 13:2

Isaac became rich, and his wealth continued to grow until he became very wealthy. Genesis 26:13

After Job had prayed for his friends, the Lord made him prosperous again and gave him twice as much as he had before. Job 42:10

May God give you of heaven’s dew and of earth’s richness—an abundance of grain and new wine.
Genesis 27:28

But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today. Deuteronomy 8:18


The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The Lord your God will bless you in the land he is giving you. Deuteronomy 28:8

He is like a tree planted by streams of water,which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither.Whatever he does prospers. Psalm 1:3

And the LORD was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian. Genesis 39:2

It is the blessing of the LORD that makes rich, And He adds no sorrow to it. Proverbs 10:22

As to the question of this post... the question itself is bated...of course Jesus did not teach a prosperity gospel, there is no such thing.....there's only the gospel!
 
The question is do you "really" know the gospel?

The answer is unfortunately sometimes it doesn't seem like it

Secondly.... there is no such thing as a prosperity gospel and more importantly

there is no such thing as the poverty gospel that the Catholic church used to preach and "some" people still cling to out of tradition and ignorance

The question is did Jesus teach people poverty equated with righteousness?

The answer is no!

The next question is did Jesus say that rich people were doomed to hell?

The answer again is no!

The question is did Jesus personally give Salvation to a rich man?

The answer is yes! Luke 19

The next question is was Joseph of Arimathea rich?

The answer is yes! Matthew 27:57

The next question is were all Jesus disciples homeless?

The answer is no...someone owned the Upper Room where they had the Last Supper and waited for Pentecost...is seated 120
Matthew 18 / Acts 1

The next question is... were there any other well off prominent disciples that supported Jesus ministry with money

Yes! read Luke 8:3

The next question was Jesus homeless as one poster suggested?

No! John 1:39

The next question is was Jesus poor?

The answer is no, if Kings ( plural) visit you and give you gifts of gold and other expensive items when you are just a baby, unless your parents squander it you're definitely not broke. Jesus was given quite an endowment as a baby.
Matthew 2:11

The next question is Why did the soldiers gamble for Jesus clothes?

Is it because they believed He was the son of God? ...nope

Is it because they knew He'd one day be famous and they wanted some memorabilia?.....nope

Is it because His clothes were well made and not the clothes of a poor person?
Bingo that's the answer !!! John 19:23

The next question is was His parents poor?

No...They were prepared to rent a room but there was no vacancy in the inn
Luke 2:7

The next question is...did Jesus have a treasurer?


The answer is Yes! Judas, John 12:6

The next question is was the treasury full of dust and buttons or did they have money in it

The answer is yes, enough money to support the functions of the ministry!
John 13:29

The next question is did Jesus and the disciples feed the poor

The answer is yes!
John 13:29


The next question is when they discussed the poor did they consider themselves as poor?

The answer is no! John 12:8

Besides, in my devotion to the temple of my God I now give my personal treasures of gold and silver for the temple of my God, over and above everything I have provided for this holy temple:
three thousand talents of gold (gold of Ophir) and seven thousand talents of refined silver, for the overlaying of the walls of the buildings,
for the gold work and the silver work, and for all the work to be done by the craftsmen. Now, who is willing to consecrate himself today to the Lord?”

1 Chronicles 29:3-5

6Then the leaders of families, the officers of the tribes of Israel, the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds, and the officials in charge of the king’s work gave willingly.
7They gave toward the work on the temple of God five thousand talents and ten thousand darics of gold, ten thousand talents of silver, eighteen thousand talents of bronze and a hundred thousand talents of iron.
8Any who had precious stones gave them to the treasury of the temple of the Lord in the custody of Jehiel the Gershonite.
9The people rejoiced at the willing response of their leaders, for they had given freely and wholeheartedly to the Lord. David the king also rejoiced greatly.

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HeavensTears
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 02:30:35 PM »

Gospel, you hit the nail right on the head with this! I couldn't agree more.  I agree

God has done a mighty good work in you and, sure enough, has used you to bless people.  kissing
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Society sees christians going to church, singing songs and clapping our hands, doing religious stuff, having christian bumper stickers on our cars and christiany T-shirts. But do they see our love for people? Do they see love in action rather than in just our words?
Sardine Can
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 02:50:24 PM »

As a former homeless, impoverished person, I resent Holier than thou preaching extolling the virtues of poverty. God has blessed me to turn my life from one of poverty and despair to one of prosperity and fruitfulness....I am not rich by any means, but it took knowing that God wants and desires for me to prosper as a source of inspiration, strength and faith! I had to learn that God does not desire that we be in poverty.
Many many other people have the same perspective as I, we have been indoctrinated with years and years of the virtue of the poverty gospel which you and others wave as a banner of your self imposed piety.
 

gospel Greedy Greedy Greedy

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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 02:50:24 PM »

 
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larry2
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 02:54:14 PM »

Gospel - As a former homeless, impoverished person, I resent Holier than thou preaching extolling the virtues of poverty.

larry2 - I do not believe God has anything against people having money. I believe He says in 1 Timothy 6:5 - "men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth suppose that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. Do you resent that?

Paul giving reason as to what truly was prosperous to his soul; do you resent that?

Though I do believe we're going to soon receive a message as how we're to sell all we have, give to the poor, and follow Jesus. Where does it end? Then those poor are to sell or give all we gave them to the poorer, etc.; it's becomes exponential. Not only that; when I receive clothing, I now become one that has something more I could sell; oh the humanity.  Frowning
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 02:54:14 PM »

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gospel
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 03:03:26 PM »


Gospel - As a former homeless, impoverished person, I resent Holier than thou preaching extolling the virtues of poverty.

larry2 - I do not believe God has anything against people having money. I believe He says in 1 Timothy 6:5 - "men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth suppose that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. Do you resent that?

Paul giving reason as to what truly was prosperous to his soul; do you resent that?


I think throughout the bible its abundantly clear that one's attitude towards riches and money are what can be godly or ungodly.

Gain is not the "sole" designator of godliness by any means!
Neither is poverty!

That the devil can give people "material " wealth is quite obvious, There are many who are spiritually impoverished yet materially affluent.

However America is and has been considered a nation blessed by God and as such the Bread Basket of the world.

On the other hand

Would we say the same about Bangladesh?

Honestly Do we consider a nation steeped in poverty as a blessed nation and a blessed people?

More importantly does the bible?

I think not!

Yet many believers are taught the age old tradition of the virtues of poverty as if it is a blessing of God and a thing to be desired  Pondering

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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 03:06:02 PM »

[quote
Many many other people have the same perspective as I, we have been indoctrinated with years and years of the virtue of the poverty gospel which you and others wave as a banner of your self imposed piety.
 
This poverty gospel is a lie from the pit of hell, used in the past by wicked men to keep poor people satisfied with lives of poverty waiting for the day they can walk the golden streets of heaven while the wicked men themselves enjoy all the abundant blessings of the land that God has given to every man right here on earth.
[/quote]

Now I now what gospel your all about gospel. Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy Greedy
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 03:34:35 PM »

Gospel, you hit the nail right on the head with this! I couldn't agree more.  I agree

God has done a mighty good work in you and, sure enough, has used you to bless people.  kissing

I am sooo touched. Crying and sad.

Since you guys are so rich, can you spare $10,000.
You can send it thru my paypal account. Smile
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2009, 03:34:35 PM »

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gospel
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 03:50:51 PM »

As a former homeless, impoverished person, I resent Holier than thou preaching extolling the virtues of poverty. God has blessed me to turn my life from one of poverty and despair to one of prosperity and fruitfulness....I am not rich by any means, but it took knowing that God wants and desires for me to prosper as a source of inspiration, strength and faith! I had to learn that God does not desire that we be in poverty.
Many many other people have the same perspective as I, we have been indoctrinated with years and years of the virtue of the poverty gospel which you and others wave as a banner of your self imposed piety.
 

I know your not talking to me. I am on disability and only get $845.00 a month.
Up until a few years ago, I too was homeless and use to sleep in the graveyard.
I own no property no house and no car. I have no stocks or bonds. BUT I still
think its wrong to preach a gospel of prosperity, own two Rolls Royce and own
two million dollar homes. So, what about you gospel, what do you own in life
and just how much are you worth MR. prosperity now. Greedy Greedy Greedy

God has blessed me with healthy body, healthy marriage, healthy children, a modest home, a stable job for 12 years, a moderate income, a humble ministry.
I still do a budget and have trouble making ends meet, yet I believe God blesses my income to do more than it would if I did not give Him the first fruits.

I thank God for everything I have and am careful NOT to curse myself or others from getting whatever God sees fit to give me or them.

Now lets take it one step further....people have blessed our ministry, given unto us because they believed we were a blessing to them. We don't have our own church, but we do minister to others and do have bibles studies, a prison and outreach ministry and also counsel others as the Lord leads.

Imagine if some of those I counseled were very wealthy athletes or very wealthy business persons.
Imagine if they attended my bible studies or I ministered to their love one in prison. Imagine if our counseling saved their marriage.
 Imagine if they counted our prayers as those prayers through whom God healed them or helped them to get off drugs or reconcile with their troubled teens

Then Imagine they were members of your church

Would they not give and give graciously willingly and freely?
 
Of course they would, so would I

I would bless my church, my pastor and every ministry on which I saw the hand of God...because I do the same now with the little I have

Rick Warren, the author of Purpose Driven Life is abundantly prosperous.
He and his wife sow 90% of their wealth into other ministries and they live on the tithe...that's the prosperity of God, that's Kingdom building!!

And theres nothing at all wrong about it  Tipping hat

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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 03:52:30 PM »

Gospel, you hit the nail right on the head with this! I couldn't agree more.  I agree

God has done a mighty good work in you and, sure enough, has used you to bless people.  kissing

I am sooo touched. Crying and sad.

Since you guys are so rich, can you spare $10,000.
You can send it thru my paypal account. Smile

Ask God to bless you...He can do it!
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