Author Topic: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?  (Read 6942 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #35 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 04:57:52 »
In  Matt 28:19 we see that the Jews had to be baptized in the  NAME  of the  FATHER, SON, and  HOLY  SPIRIT  and in Acts 19:5  they were baptized in the name of the LORD JESUS!
The Jews had NO such commandment apart from the Gentiles. When we read of names used when baptising it only can prove ONE THING, that when baptizing folks, we have the right to use whatever they understand based on their understanding at the moment of being baptized!

If I were baptizing someone who had an overall understanding of the scriptures then I would say: "I now baptize thee my brother, (or sister) in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, even in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ"~Truly, it matters little, AS LONG as they know they are being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and INTO his religion, teachings, doctrines, etc. and that they believe with all of their hearts and desire to commit themselves unto him for the rest of their life. Being baptise is a baptism INTO the faith of Jesus Christ with a desire to follow him by living according to the word of God. It is NOT a baptism into a church, but INTO THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST for what he did for us.   
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:55:19 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #36 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:08:59 »

Book, chapter and verse please?
Well, baptism in water teaches us a few doctrines, but to answer your question TC did by using 1st Peter 3:21~to add to that scripture we would give you this one along with others in this order:
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 8:36-38~"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."
Quote
Acts 16:14,15~"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us."
How many more should I give before you might believe? One should be enough!
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:13:16 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #37 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:27:41 »

in  1 Peter 3:20 there were 8  souls were saved by  WATER !!

 In verse 20  it was a  DRY  BAPTISM  ,  what happened  to those  OUT  SIDE  OF THE  ARK , it was a  WATER  BAPTISM  to  DEATH ,  RIGHT .

It is just another  BAPTISM UNTO  DEATH .

Do you know just how ignorant your statement sound?
Quote from: dan p
there were 8  souls were saved by  WATER !!

 In verse 20  it was a  DRY  BAPTISM
How can one be saved BY WATER and not get wet?  ::pondering:: That's a new one on me. Yes, I know what you are thinking, but it is STILL wrong especially trying to force that interpretation on 1st Corinthians 12. You like so many others believe in a SPIRITUAL baptism that teaches when one is born again they are baptized into the body of Christ by the Spirit of God, and for a proof text you and others corrupt 1st Corinthians 12:12,13. Yes, or no? Well, 1st Corinthians 12 is NOT teaching the doctrine that you and others believe it is teaching. If you desire to prove it, then try, but you will fail. I'll wait to hear your thoughts before moving to that scripture.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #37 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:27:41 »

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #38 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:44:28 »
Hi and in Acts 18:6  Paul says that from now on he would GO  TO THE  GENTILES  .

Also in Acts  18;7   And having  departed from that place , THE  Synagogue and in verse who was the  ruler there , but  CRISPUS !!

Notice that in verse 7 that Paul  departed from that place  (  THE  SYNAGOGUE  )  and went next door to  Justus by name , who was  worshipping God , whom the house was  BORDERING ON THE  SYNAGOGUE  or was wall to wall  with the  SYNAGOGUE ,

And when Paul went to Justus  house Crispus was  BAPTIZING all those their and many  Corinthians .

 This means that Paul   NEVER   BAPTIZED   ,,,,,,Crispus or Gauis or  Stephanas , who also were  Corinthians >
Dan, WHO are you arguing against? Us or Paul?  Paul clearly said that he DID baptize those folk in his letter to them. Also, WHY is it important for you to prove Paul never Baptised folks?  Water baptism speaks to the EYES of men like the gospel does to the EARS of men. Water baptism is essential to the gospel of Jesus Christ for many reasons, regardless if some take it a step farther than the scriptures do.   

I have listened to men over the years more or less mock water baptism and those who believe it is essential to be born again~while I reject one side of that, I also find myself grieving over men making water baptism a none essential doctrine of the Christain faith. Water baptism plays a major part in our practical salvation in understanding the gospel of Jesus Christ per Mark 16:16~a precious truth hidden from BOTH those who mock water Baptism and from those who teach that it is essential in being BORN AGAIN, or the vital phrase of our salvation.
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:53:23 by RB »

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #38 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 05:44:28 »
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Offline 4WD

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #39 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 06:21:50 »
Well, baptism in water teaches us a few doctrines, but to answer your question TC did by using 1st Peter 3:21
RB, TC already attested to the fact that is reply was tongue-in-cheek to screw with Jaime.

Then you said,
~to add to that scripture we would give you this one along with others in this order:
and posted Acts 16:14-15 with the usual pointing attention to God's opening Lydia's heart.  But you conveniently never make reference to the fact that it says that Lydia worshipped God.  But I am positive that you have, hundreds of times over the years in this forum, said that unless one has been regenerated, such actions as worshipping God are impossible.  So then, what does it mean that God opened Lydia's heart if she had already been regenerated?

My answer to that question is that God's opening Lydia's was a supernatural adding to her understanding of what Paul was teaching.  This is quite similar to God's opening the minds of the Jesus' disciples in Luke 23:45.  Neither the incident with Lydia nor with Jesus' disciples was regeneration.

I have to add here that it is johntwayne who presents the correct view of baptism.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #39 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 06:21:50 »



Offline dan p

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #40 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 13:02:36 »
Hi and just presenting what I see Paul was doing .

 By the way you did  quote Mark 16:16 .

#1  The  Greek words  SHALL BE  SAVED / SOZO is a verb in the  FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE  VOICE  an in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD  of a  FACT .

 #2  SHALL BE  DAMNED / KATAKRINO  is also a verb  in the  Greek  FUTURE  TENSE .

 #3  And verse 17 needs to be explained also  because after they , the JEWS  are  BAPTIZED   (  AND  NOT  GENTILES ).  these  SIGNS / SEMEION   , in the  NOMINATIVE  CASE which is the  subject of verse 17 .

 #4 And these SIGNS  are  CAST OUT  DEMONS .

Speak with new  TONGUES

Take up  SERPENTS

 Hand on the SICK and shall recover  and the  Greek  SHALL  is also in the Greek  FUTURE  TENSE .

 Do you believe that is  HAPPENNING  TODAY  or is it yet  FUITURE .

If it is FUTURE ,  when does it begin to happen ?

I believe it happens in the GREAT  TRIBULATION .

 What say you ??

dan p

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #40 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 13:02:36 »

Offline fish153

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #41 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 20:57:19 »
“I also baptized the house of Stephanas. I do not remember if I baptized anyone else” (1 Cor. 1:16). The Holy Spirit places everything in the Word for a purpose. He has placed this sentence in Scripture to show us Baptism does NOT save. Why do I say this? If you led 5 people to the Lord for salvation would you REMEMBER those 5 people? Yes, you most likely would.

Billy Graham would not remember everyone. He led THOUSANDS to the Lord. But I remember those I have led to the Lord for salvation because it is a small group of people. I remember them because they were SAVED. NOW if baptism SAVES people don’t you think Paul would REMEMBER the FEW people he did baptize? He doesn’t know or remember because though baptism is important it is not paramount to SALVATION. That is WHY the Holy Spirit put this sentence in Scripture. To show us that Baptism does not save people. If it did Paul would MOST ASSUREDLY remember EVERYONE he had baptized, because it was only a few.

Baptism is IMPORTANT. It SYMBOLIZES putting on new life and putting away the old. But baptism IS NOT what saves us. It comes as a RESULT of being saved. Just as good works are a RESULT of salvation (see EPH. 2:10)— they are not the cause. Baptism is a result of being saved, it is NOT the cause. Thank you Holy Spirit for teaching us in every sentence of Scripture.

Offline Jaime

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #42 on: Sat Feb 06, 2021 - 21:05:00 »
Baptism is the request to God for a clean conscience. 1Peter 3:21 NASB. Absolutely congruant with Paul’s baptism in Acts 22 to wash away his sins calling upon the Lord. Not at all like washing dirt off the body. Something that IS  considered to be calling upon the Lord for something is definitely important. It is not the paramount thing as we say, but it is important. Not who does the baptizing. God does the work that is done in baptism. As TC says baptism cannot be parsed from faith. The first century folks understood that well. Not so much for us today.
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 07, 2021 - 07:04:42 by Jaime »

Offline 4WD

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #43 on: Sun Feb 07, 2021 - 05:11:00 »
Baptism is a result of being saved, it is NOT the cause.
You are correct; baptism is not the cause of being saved. But you are wrong; baptism is not the result of being saved.  Baptism is the occasion of being saved; baptism is the time of being saved.  The cause of being saved cannot be any other than God Himself. "You have been saved by grace..." (Eph 2:8).. The question then is who does God save and when does God save them.  Clearly God saves the believer, the one who has faith in Jesus Christ as God's Son.  And He saves the believer when the believer confesses His belief, repents of his sinful life and is baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Confession of Jesus Christ as God's Son is not the result of being saved; repentance of sin is not the result of being saved; baptism is not the result of being saved.

I could say a lot more on this topic and have here in the past.  For now I will leave it with what I just posted.  Baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the believer, of being saved.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #43 on: Sun Feb 07, 2021 - 05:11:00 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: !
« Reply #44 on: Sun Feb 07, 2021 - 10:10:47 »
In  Matt 28:19 we see that the Jews had to be  baptizedm in the  NAME  of the  FATHER , SON and  HOLY  SPIRIT  and in Acts 19:5  they were  baptized in the name of the LORD  JESUS !
Luke used a short hand in Acts.  It was the full triune name of Father Son and Spirit. otherwise Paul's question in Acts 19.3 makes no sense.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #45 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 01:03:32 »
And as we always say, the first century folks would have never parsed baptism away from faith. Baptism was never intended as a magical water ritual that usurps faith. if it's considered checking a box or punching a card, then yes it would be simply a futile work, AND not even tp the biblical definition of a baptism but simply a ceremonial dunking to no avail meriting no part of any salvation.
Baptism is an adoption ceremony, plain and simple.

Adoption is required for salvation, because salvation is part of Abraham's covenant, and that is how covenants work.  You have to be either a natural son or an adopted one to enter the covenant.

Also, baptism is not something you "do."  It is something that is done TO you.  So, not a work.

Jarrod

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #46 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 05:44:40 »
Baptism is an adoption ceremony, plain and simple.
Would you provide those plain and simple scriptures proving what you are saying?
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on: Today at 01:03:32
Adoption is required for salvation
Let us see if that is correct:
Quote
Romans 8:15~"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
Quote
Romans 8:23~"And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."
Quote
Romans 9:4~"Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"
Quote
Galatians 4:5 ~"To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."
Quote
Ephesians 1:5~"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
These scriptures are the only place where we read of adoption, so, whatever we understand adoption to mean according to God use of the word, we must draw our understanding from these scriptures. Based upon these scriptures I would say that adoption secures our salvation from sin and condemnation all the way to the redemption our our bodies at the resurrection, APART from all works man can think of to add to Christ gospel.
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on: Today at 01:03:32
that is how covenants work
Well, there are two covenant that takes up a big portion of God's word that works totally opposite of each other. The first and second covenant known a the covenant of works and the covenant of grace. One depending on man's obedience/will to do God's commandments~the other covenant based on two imutable acts of God~his oath and his promises of grace toward man because of man's spiritual inability to secure his own salvation~because of the weakness of his flesh.
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on: Today at 01:03:32
You have to be either a natural son or an adopted one to enter the covenant
In the scriptures all that is required to enter into the first covenant is to be a natural son~the New Covenat one must be predestinated according to the will of Godwhich he secured through the obdeince of His Son, Jesus Christ according to his good pleasures alone.
Quote from: Paul
Ephesians 1:5~"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
You said:
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh  on: Today at 01:03:32
Also, baptism is not something you "do."
Well, now, I believe it IS something WE DO.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 10:48~And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh  on: Today at 01:03:32
It is something that is done TO you.  So, not a work.
It takes TWO people for one to be properly baptized in water to be a scriptural baptism, which would go against such scriptures as:
Quote from: John
John 1:13~Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
The will of the flesh rules out the one being baptized, and the will of man rules out any man that does the baptising whom the apostates preachers/religion call the "SOUL WINNER".









« Last Edit: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 05:48:04 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #47 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 08:00:39 »
Speaking about John 1:13 you said,
The will of the flesh rules out the one being baptized, and the will of man rules out any man that does the baptising whom the apostates preachers/religion call the "SOUL WINNER".
But to whom, does it say in John 1:12 that Jesus gave the right, the power, to become children of God?  Because they are the ones who it is said in John 1:13 were born of God.  The clear answer is that Jesus gave the right, the power, to become children of God, i.e., to be born again, to those "who received him, who believed in his name." (v.12)

The reference to "not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man" in verse 13 has reference back to verse 11. The message there is that it is not His own people, i.e., the blood line of Abraham and Sarah, that are given the right, the power, to become children of God.  Why? Because they did not receive Him (v.11).  Rather that right was given to those who did receive Him, i.e., those who believed in His name, in spite of their blood line.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #48 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 08:14:33 »
A question for anyone who can actually answer.

Baptism or the concept there of has been shown through out the New Testament, and who was Baptized was identified , if not by name, at least by group and circumstances. I should say water baptism.

Save for the Eunuch, everyone had more then one witness to this happening.

WHY?

I personally, ( although I am probably wrong), have always believed a person's belief and faith and acceptance in God through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross was between God and that person.

But when it comes to Baptism (water) it seems it is to be done with a group of witnesses, as in a church setting. And even if you are abhorrent to the idea of baby sprinkling, that also is done in from of witnesses in a church or by invitation to a group event.

WHY are the witnesses needed? Of course they are not , yet that is the general way things are done these days.




Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #49 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 08:48:33 »
A question for anyone who can actually answer.

Baptism or the concept there of has been shown through out the New Testament, and who was Baptized was identified , if not by name, at least by group and circumstances. I should say water baptism.

Save for the Eunuch, everyone had more then one witness to this happening.

WHY?

I personally, ( although I am probably wrong), have always believed a person's belief and faith and acceptance in God through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross was between God and that person.

But when it comes to Baptism (water) it seems it is to be done with a group of witnesses, as in a church setting. And even if you are abhorrent to the idea of baby sprinkling, that also is done in from of witnesses in a church or by invitation to a group event.

WHY are the witnesses needed? Of course they are not , yet that is the general way things are done these days.

Baby sprinkling is abhorrent because a baby cannot have faith.  It ends up tying remission of sins to water, rather than faith in Christ in baptism.

Further, why witnesses?  See Reply #45 .

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #50 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 10:32:02 »
Baby sprinkling is abhorrent because a baby cannot have faith.  It ends up tying remission of sins to water, rather than faith in Christ in baptism.

Further, why witnesses?  See Reply #45 .

Quote
Baptism is an adoption ceremony, plain and simple.

Adoption is required for salvation, because salvation is part of Abraham's covenant, and that is how covenants work.  You have to be either a natural son or an adopted one to enter the covenant.

Also, baptism is not something you "do."  It is something that is done TO you.  So, not a work.

Jarrod

Sorry,

Having been adopted by my mom , after my birth mom died, there was no ceremony.

There was me, my mom, my dad and the attorney.

I did nothing, The attorney did it.

So I do not understand why a couple hundred people have to witness this.

You have the witnesses and yourself ( the baptizee) and the baptizer... Who baptises in the name of God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit.

But there is nothing personal between you and God in this but more you acknowledgement to others your belief/faith.

As if... if you dont do it this way it really does not count cause no one will know unless you continue to tell people "you got baptised" almost as if you are boasting and proud of it.

I know baby baptisms are abhorrent. When I find my baptismal certificate that was given to me when I was, I guess Ill throw it out or maybe use it incase of another shortage in that department (bathroom)?




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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #51 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 10:39:08 »
Sorry,

Having been adopted by my mom , after my birth mom died, there was no ceremony.

There was me, my mom, my dad and the attorney.

I did nothing, The attorney did it.

So I do not understand why a couple hundred people have to witness this.

You have the witnesses and yourself ( the baptizee) and the baptizer... Who baptises in the name of God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit.

But there is nothing personal between you and God in this but more you acknowledgement to others your belief/faith.

As if... if you dont do it this way it really does not count cause no one will know unless you continue to tell people "you got baptised" almost as if you are boasting and proud of it.

I know baby baptisms are abhorrent. When I find my baptismal certificate that was given to me when I was, I guess Ill throw it out or maybe use it incase of another shortage in that department (bathroom)?

I asked if you wanted to wade into this discussion earlier.  You cannot seem to handle discussions where others disagree without getting upset.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #52 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 18:50:12 »
Sorry,

Having been adopted by my mom , after my birth mom died, there was no ceremony.

There was me, my mom, my dad and the attorney.
I would consider going to an attorney, drafting paperwork and filing it with the government to be ceremonial.  They make it legal. 

Getting dunked in water is just the 1st century Jewish version of that.

I did nothing, The attorney did it.
Exactly.  Take that and apply it to baptism.

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #53 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 18:53:29 »
I asked if you wanted to wade into this discussion earlier.  You cannot seem to handle discussions where others disagree without getting upset.

Not true.

I am in no way upset.

I just do not see the need for an audience at a baptism.

But I know that most churches require that.

As to the baby abhorrent thing.

You know I was when I was too young to know I should have said no. That is not on me, that is on the people involved from the minister, my parents, and the congregation watching. I am not upset about this at all.

It did not count so there is no reason to keep the certificate.

Once upon a time it proved I was a US citizen, and age, but since the all important voters card came into being ... that is now the proof....for me.

So I need to take care of things.... You should appreciate that.... And I am not upset
 ::kissing::

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #54 on: Mon Feb 08, 2021 - 19:12:59 »

Quote
Sorry,

Having been adopted by my mom , after my birth mom died, there was no ceremony.

There was me, my mom, my dad and the attorney.

I would consider going to an attorney, drafting paperwork and filing it with the government to be ceremonial.  They make it legal. 



The attorney filed it with the state (PA) and when I had to apply for a new birth certificate for my enhanced drivers license, last year my birth mom's name had been replaced by my adopted mom's name.

Cant get more legal then that and there was no fanfare or multiple witnesses.

Quote
Getting dunked in water is just the 1st century Jewish version of that.

Getting dunked in water is just the 1st century Jewish version of someone adopting you? Or of God adopting you? 

Assuming the latter then if you are not dunked, you are not Gods??? Makes perfect sense.

Quote
Quote from: Rella on Today at 10:32:02
I did nothing, The attorney did it.
Quote
Exactly.  Take that and apply it to baptism.
[/quote]

OK... Cool... During my adoption if I or my adoptive mom or birth dad , when asked by the attorney if we are in agreement if anyone of the 3 of us had said we did not want this, then it would not have happened.

So if we place the baptizer in place of the attorney, and say me ( cause this is my story)  in the place of the baptizee, is it written anywhere in the bible that God will agree with all who want to be baptized, as he is the 3part in this.

It still does not tell me why there needs to be a viewing of this by others.

 


Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #55 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 04:03:02 »
Save for the Eunuch, everyone had more than one witness to this happening.
Actually, I would think that many times there were just a hand full of folks around when someone was baptized~I do not think more than two or three were there when Paul was baptized by Ananias~we aren't told how many for numbers means not one thing when it comes to baptizing someone into Jesus Christ's faith.
Quote from: Luke
Acts 9:11-18~"And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."
This instance and the one recorded a chapter before (Acts 8:26-39) is given to us to prove that water baptism is BETWEEN GOD and the PERSON being baptized. Many in our day, I say many, actually, MOST, believe water baptism puts one INTO A LOCAL BODY OF BELIEVERS, thereby, leaving it up to THE CHRUCH to vote on their baptism and church membership, which both are erroneous doctrines not found in the scriptures that were ever practiced by the first churches of Christ.

Paul's baptism into the very faith that he sought to destroy, is an example of how water baptism should be practiced by the church of God.

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #56 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 04:40:31 »
Speaking about John 1:13 you said,But to whom, does it say in John 1:12 that Jesus gave the right, the power, to become children of God?  Because they are the ones who it is said in John 1:13 were born of God.  The clear answer is that Jesus gave the right, the power, to become children of God, i.e., to be born again, to those "who received him, who believed in his name." (v.12)
Your post and the flow of your question is very awkwardly presented, which is very unlike your manner of writing. I had to read it several times to get just a handle on your words so I could answer you without misrepresenting your words. I only quoted John 1:13 to say this:
Quote
John 1:13~Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." The will of the flesh rules out the one being baptized, and the will of man rules out any man that does the baptizing whom the apostates preachers/religion call the "SOUL WINNER".
Nevertheless, I will address those who receive Christ are those to whom the POWER was given to do so. You are turning those scriptures totally around to support the gospel that you have come to embrace. John 1:12 REVEALS the reason WHY some did receive Christ while the world overall and his very own people did not~and to add support to verses 11 and 12 John give to us a commentary on John 1:11,12 by giving to us John 1:13. The flow of the CONTEXT is very important for us to follow if we truly desire to know the truth spoken to us.
Quote from: 4WD on: Yesterday at 08:00:39
The reference to "not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man" in verse 13 has reference back to verse 11. The message there is that it is not His own people, i.e., the blood line of Abraham and Sarah, that are given the right, the power, to become children of God.  Why? Because they did not receive Him (v.11).  Rather that right was given to those who did receive Him, i.e., those who believed in His name, in spite of their blood line.
4WD, you are dead wrong~blood has reference BACK to the Jews Jesus' own people; the will of the flesh has reference to man's will of coming to Christ...man's will, which is in bondage to sin and its lusts, has NO part in man coming to Christ. The will of man has reference to OTHER PEOPLE'S will of desiring, laboring to get folks born again, plays no part in causing one to be born again~BUT OF GOD means only the power of God can give spiritual life to a sinner who is dead in sins and living under the power of sin. The new birth is a birth by the Spirit of God ALONE without any assistance from a man in any way whatsoever.

 

Offline 4WD

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #57 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 06:15:11 »
Nevertheless, I will address those who receive Christ are those to whom the POWER was given to do so. You are turning those scriptures totally around to support the gospel that you have come to embrace. John 1:12 REVEALS the reason WHY some did receive Christ while the world overall and his very own people did not~and to add support to verses 11 and 12 John give to us a commentary on John 1:11,12 by giving to us John 1:13.
Now that would be funny, except that I am quite sure you actually believe it.  It is you who have turned things totally around to support the soteriology you profess.  I think a part of your problem is the clumsy way that the KJV translates it.     Let's take a look.

[ESV]He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.  But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name,.....(vv. 11-12a) This is establishing two groups of people, and only two groups of people; the first group being those who did not receive Jesus and the second group being those who did receive Him.  Those in the first group are also said to be His own people.  I will come back to that later.  What does it say about that second group, the ones who did receive Jesus? We read, ....,who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God (v.12b),. It says [ESV] parenthetically that that ones who received him were the ones who believed in His name. It then says that He gave them the right to become the sons of God. Here the KJV says ...He gave power... Power --- Greek ἐξουσία exousia is privilege, honor, dignity, right, force, capacity, competency, freedom, power.  Clearly this power, this right, this privilege, etc. is given to the second group; the second group which were the ones who received Jesus. Then we move on to the next verse, verse 13 -- ...who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.   Here again, we see the two groups, and only two groups, described.  One group is described as being born of blood, born of the will of the flesh, born of the will of man.  These were his own and these were the ones who did not receive Him.  They did not believe in Jesus' name.  And they were not given the power.  It is that second group, the ones who did receive Jesus and did believe in His name who are given the power, the right. Clearly the sons of God and those born of God are one and the same.  They were given the power to become the sons of God, i.e., they were given the power, the right, the privilege, to become born of God.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 08:14:51 by 4WD »

Offline Rella

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #58 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 07:47:15 »
This instance and the one recorded a chapter before (Acts 8:26-39) is given to us to prove that water baptism is BETWEEN GOD and the PERSON being baptized. Many in our day, I say many, actually, MOST, believe water baptism puts one INTO A LOCAL BODY OF BELIEVERS, thereby, leaving it up to THE CHRUCH to vote on their baptism and church membership, which both are erroneous doctrines not found in the scriptures that were ever practiced by the first churches of Christ.



Thank you. This is what I was asking, kind of.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #59 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 12:55:45 »
Many in our day, I say many, actually, MOST, believe water baptism puts one INTO A LOCAL BODY OF BELIEVERS, thereby, leaving it up to THE CHRUCH to vote on their baptism and church membership, which both are erroneous doctrines not found in the scriptures that were ever practiced by the first churches of Christ.
I don't think you're right on this one.  I found that idea in Scripture without any trouble:

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?  (Acts 10)

Why would Peter say such a thing, if there wasn't ever an instance where someone DID object to a baptism?

Jarrod

Offline DaveW

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #60 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 13:24:34 »
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?  (Acts 10)
Why would Peter say such a thing, if there wasn't ever an instance where someone DID object to a baptism?
There was plenty of objection to gentiles being saved, let alone being baptized.  Look at Acts 15.1. 

Offline dan p

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #61 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 17:20:52 »
So . you  believe that Paul did water  BAPTIZE  ?

 Is that what you mean ?

 dan p

Offline Jaime

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #62 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 18:03:56 »
Everybody but you it seems Dan.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #63 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 18:54:46 »
So . you  believe that Paul did water  BAPTIZE  ?

 Is that what you mean ?

 dan p

Paul is stressing the importance of his mission of spreading the  gospel.  Baptism is not part of the gospel, it is a faith response to the gospel.

Offline Rella

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #64 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 19:00:20 »
So . you  believe that Paul did water  BAPTIZE  ?

 Is that what you mean ?

 dan p

dan p,

You still have not told me

What difference does it make?

It truly seems to bother you that there are those who do believe this and you do not... but why?

We know for a fact that Paul did baptize , you cannot believe he did not or you are calling him a liar. He told us he baptized Crispus and Gaius and the household of
Stephanas.  He told us this in 1Cor., so for you to not believe this is just silly.
He also said he does not remember if he baptized anymore ... for a reason.

He had a different "commission" that did not involve baptism.

Now, perhaps you want to discuss his commission because baptism was not what he was to do?   Paul was to preach the cross...

He was the first

He further states in 1 Cor 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

But he did, and from his own mouth say he did baptize a few.

I shall stop before I pull this into a different direction.


Offline Jaime

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #65 on: Tue Feb 09, 2021 - 21:10:28 »
Dan, Paul was called to preach the gospel. If the occasion required, he of course would baptize somebody as he said he did. Administering baptism requires no special gift. Preaching of course does. Paul not personally baptizing many has nothing to do with the importance of baptism. Most Church of Christ preachers consider baptism important, but perform very few baptisms themselves. They WILL of course, but they usually leave that for someone else that usually isn’t gifted as a preacher. Preacher’s don’t serve communion either even though that is also very important, but can be handled by another member of the body. It’s not conducive to a healthy body if only one body part does everything.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 04:24:53 by Jaime »

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #66 on: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 04:22:31 »
I don't think you're right on this one.  I found that idea in Scripture without any trouble:

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?  (Acts 10)
Jarrod, your ability to follow a simple thread is lacking, at least in this place, overall you do fairly well. I never said that the one baptizing an individual should not make sure that those they are baptizing truly believe just as Philip did to the eunuch, and John the Baptist did to those coming to his baptism. (Matthew 3) Nevertheless, baptism is NOT left up to a vote, NOR does water baptism put one into a local body of believers! If so, which one was the eunuch put into? He went on his way rejoicing with NO instruction from Philip to join membership with a visible church.
Quote
Why would Peter say such a thing, if there wasn't ever an instance where someone DID object to a baptism?
Why do you think? It was a new thing being revealed to them that the GENTILES should be partakers WITH THEM in worshipping God. We could spend time here answering your question but said enough to answer you.

Offline RB

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #67 on: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 04:37:07 »
Dan, Paul was called to preach the gospel. If the occasion required, he of course would baptize somebody as he said he did. Administering baptism requires no special gift. Preaching of course does. Paul not personally baptizing many has nothing to do with the importance of baptism. Most Church of Christ preachers consider baptism important, but perform very few baptisms themselves. They WILL of course, but they usually leave that for someone else that usually isn’t gifted as a preacher. Preacher’s don’t serve communion either even though that is also very important, but can be handled by another member of the body. It’s not conducive to a healthy body if only one body part does everything.
This is a wise practice because of the weakness of man's flesh~it is so easy for men to think that baptism and communion can only be performed by holy hands of a minister! When the truth is we are are equally holy by Christ being made sanctification for us.
Quote
1st Corinthians 1:29-31~"That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
I have seen preachers exalt themselves above others in the church as far as being holy, and their wife next in line and then their children! The height of pride and ignorance. 

Offline 4WD

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #68 on: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 05:41:04 »
Paul is stressing the importance of his mission of spreading the  gospel.  Baptism is not part of the gospel, it is a faith response to the gospel.
Only in your limited view of what the gospel is.  In your view, what did Paul mean when he spoke of Jesus "inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" (2 Tim 1:8)?What do you think is the gospel that is to be obeyed?
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 05:46:12 by 4WD »

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Re: DID PAUL WATER BAPTIZED ANYONE ?
« Reply #69 on: Wed Feb 10, 2021 - 06:05:10 »
What do you think is the gospel that is to be obeyed?
This is the gospel according to Paul that is to be obeyed:

1 Corinthians 15:1
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.