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Author Topic: Divorce is not an option for Christians  (Read 1569 times)
HRoberson
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2009, 10:36:11 PM »

in re OP:

I agree that divorce should not be our first choice, and in fact, I believe we often divorce much too quickly. However, the references to marriage in Scripture have more to do with remaining faithful -when we are in the power position - to our commitments. That is not an absolute situation, but it does cover most of what Scripture says about marriage.

It also seems a bit odd that God would require you to stay in a relationship where you get the crap beat out of you every Friday night. This sort of situation isn't addressed in Scripture at all. Given this reality, I believe we are able to weigh the principles involved and make grace-full and understanding decisions about ourselves and others who find themselves in very difficult situations.

Even with that, divorce is not prohibited for Christians in Scripture, but is discussed as a failure to live according to your commitment.

Adultery is the breaking of a vow, it is not sex per se. We have broken the vow when we kick our partners out of the house [and join ourselves to another]. But having sex with a second, third, or fifteenth partner is not adultery because we committed that sin when we broke our vow. God knows when we aren't married any more, He does not stick His fingers in His ears and chant "you're still married, you're still married, you're still married."
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2009, 10:36:11 PM »

 
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »

In the same manner that Homosexual Christians really are not Christians...neither are judgemental and finger pointing Christians really Christians either...

There is no difference...the Bible says so and I believe it. It says that those who do these things are rejects of the faith...sorry but just because someone can quote the Law doesn't make them a Christian.



In saying this aren't you being a "judgmental and finger pointing Christian"? (Rom 2:1-4)

Just saying.
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »

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« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2009, 12:37:36 AM »

in re OP:

I agree that divorce should not be our first choice, and in fact, I believe we often divorce much too quickly. However, the references to marriage in Scripture have more to do with remaining faithful -when we are in the power position - to our commitments. That is not an absolute situation, but it does cover most of what Scripture says about marriage.

It also seems a bit odd that God would require you to stay in a relationship where you get the crap beat out of you every Friday night. This sort of situation isn't addressed in Scripture at all. Given this reality, I believe we are able to weigh the principles involved and make grace-full and understanding decisions about ourselves and others who find themselves in very difficult situations.

Even with that, divorce is not prohibited for Christians in Scripture, but is discussed as a failure to live according to your commitment.

Adultery is the breaking of a vow, it is not sex per se. We have broken the vow when we kick our partners out of the house [and join ourselves to another]. But having sex with a second, third, or fifteenth partner is not adultery because we committed that sin when we broke our vow. God knows when we aren't married any more, He does not stick His fingers in His ears and chant "you're still married, you're still married, you're still married."

There is some that I don't agree with, and there is some foundations that I firmly agree with.  Thought provoking, nonetheless.  Thanks for the post, HR.
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BAH-BLAH
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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2009, 08:32:33 AM »

Well of course God hates divorce and after all who likes divorce? However he also hates things like adultery, sexual immorality, serous abuse and all the other things that actually CAUSE the divorce more. Getting divorced isnt actually a sin unless we divorce for reasons not allowed that are selfish.(for example becuase we want to marry another person)
No were does the Bible say that a divorce for sexual immorality, for example. is a sin. It is the sexual sin that is the sin not the divorce.Also what of those who are themselves divorced for no Biblical reason? They have no choice and thus are not guilt of sinning.

The past in the original post about the offering, has absolutely nothing to do with divorce, that is a total twisting of scripture to try to prove a wrong point.

I do not think divorce is absolutely prohibited, thats obvious. But chose, this line of thinking is what leads people who DO NOT have grounds to think its hunky dory to divorce...its really a bad rationale because its full on relativism. You could take this rationale for anything sinful and say "oh yea thats sin BUT so is this and this"....what does that actually SAY about each individual sin, in Gods eyes?    NOTHING! Its a 100% human idea to say yes thats bad but so is this , the implication being therefore the first thing isnt as bad as we were told it was. Each and every sin is judged on its own, in a vacuum, God isnt standing 2 people next to each other and comparing there sins to mitigate one. I say all this because I belive this manner of thinking, not only in divorce, but as Christians in general, is very bad, even dangerous for our own thinking and decisions. There is but ONE standard for each sin...GODS standard, and it has ZERO to do with the other. Its like the little boy who breaks a vase saying , "yea dad, but Jimmy down the street broke a WINDOW (therefore take it easy on me).

Fact is, most divorces have no Biblical grounds. The moment we begin to accept that is the moment the church can stop doubleminded treatment of it. There is no need to make divorce illegal or change laws in any way. BUT hearts need some work, and rationalizing and splitting hairs aint cuttin it. One cyysical) common rational (seen right here) is to IMMEDIATELY bring up abuse. Realize abuse (physical) is a ground in less than 5% of divorces. So informing our view on divorce using 5% is insane really.

Anyway, Im not sure whats up with the OP. But frankly I prefer that extreme over the one that exists now, which is to take as circuitous a path through the Bible as we need to find a way to justify, essentially, divorce for any reason, by calling anything and everything either abandonement or abuse. Best stay with first principles, and what gives with this urge Christians have to get as close to the line God has drawn on this as possible anyway? Why not err safe side? Its a mess.



  I never meant that divorce for selfish reaons is allowed.(actually I said that is is wrong), but if a person has cheated for example then their spouse is allowed to divorce. I agree that many do divorce for no good reason but that is between them and God. 
Both my divorce and my husbands divorce were for sexual immorlality on our spouses part. I divorced my husband as what he did was so serious that in no way could I ever have him back, and my husbands wife divorced him to marry the other man (which she never did by the way).
Divorce for 'boredom' or becuase they have fallen 'out of love' or because their 'needs; werent being met is not godly or right. I have heard peope divorce for these reasons. and it is 100% wrong, but that is a far cry from those who have been betrayed in the worse way possible. For THEM it isn a sin to divorce, The sin was in the betrayal which broke the covenant.   

My comments really were not about whether you were seeing groundless divorce as ok or not, they were about relativism, the specific idea that "yes divorce is sin but so is X Y Z"   Its true, but it doesnt MEAN anything, yet it implies, quite strongly, that the former (divorce) is somehow not *so* bad because the latter (XYZ) are ALSO bad.

Thats all.

To the abused poster, good for you that you got away. How dare we take issue about such things. They are however 5% or less of all divorces. MOST divorces do not have abuse or adultry. That is a sad fact, and saying that the divorce frees you to sertve God better is a stretch, as is saying YOU chose your mate GOD didnt. Thats way to subjective, and the mate you marry IS the mate God has for you unless and until grounds.
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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2009, 08:38:37 AM »

Is that true Bah Blah that most divorces are not for abuse or adultery?. Of all the divorces in my family, my husbands family and my ex husbands family, they were nearly ALL for adultery.(and there have been many believe me)  With divorced people among friends, again they were nearly all for sexual immorality

.The only one that I can think of that wasnt, was my husbands divorce where his wife said he wasnt meeting her needs, but then she met another man and committed adultery anyway.
 
 
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2009, 10:15:49 AM »

Is that true Bah Blah that most divorces are not for abuse or adultery?. Of all the divorces in my family, my husbands family and my ex husbands family, they were nearly ALL for adultery.(and there have been many believe me)  With divorced people among friends, again they were nearly all for sexual immorality

.The only one that I can think of that wasnt, was my husbands divorce where his wife said he wasnt meeting her needs, but then she met another man and committed adultery anyway.
 
 

Its true in the U.S. Its based on a study of 46,000 divorces, a pretty good sample.
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2009, 10:15:49 AM »

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JohnDB
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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2009, 12:01:50 PM »

Abuse is the number one reason for divorce.

Usually one spouse is chemically dependant or a sex addict or a gambling addict and so financially, emotionally abuses the other spouse.

all depends upon the point of view doesn't it.

A woman can be chemically dependant or sexually addicted the same as a man can...of course with diffferent characteristics...but dependant just the same. I haven't heard of many women being gambling addicts...but I am sure that whatever group of them that there is is currently growing.
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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2009, 12:11:40 PM »

Is that true Bah Blah that most divorces are not for abuse or adultery?. Of all the divorces in my family, my husbands family and my ex husbands family, they were nearly ALL for adultery.(and there have been many believe me)  With divorced people among friends, again they were nearly all for sexual immorality

.The only one that I can think of that wasnt, was my husbands divorce where his wife said he wasnt meeting her needs, but then she met another man and committed adultery anyway.
 
 

Its true in the U.S. Its based on a study of 46,000 divorces, a pretty good sample.


 I have heard that porn use is a large factor in many divorces.

In Italy,(I read) 1/3 of all divorces are caused by interfering mothers in law. Frowning

I just thought with 60% of men and 40% of women comitting adultery apparently, that is would factor higher in the stasticics.
Maybe many spouses never even find out about it.
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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2009, 12:47:27 PM »

Is that true Bah Blah that most divorces are not for abuse or adultery?. Of all the divorces in my family, my husbands family and my ex husbands family, they were nearly ALL for adultery.(and there have been many believe me)  With divorced people among friends, again they were nearly all for sexual immorality

.The only one that I can think of that wasnt, was my husbands divorce where his wife said he wasnt meeting her needs, but then she met another man and committed adultery anyway.
 
 

Its true in the U.S. Its based on a study of 46,000 divorces, a pretty good sample.


 I have heard that porn use is a large factor in many divorces.

In Italy,(I read) 1/3 of all divorces are caused by interfering mothers in law. Frowning

I just thought with 60% of men and 40% of women comitting adultery apparently, that is would factor higher in the stasticics.
Maybe many spouses never even find out about it.

Extramarital sex as in adultery is too much like work. (at least to me)...all that lying and dodging and then sex itself...never mind all the financial cost of dating and what have you...gifts that you can't let your spouse find out about...Seems like an awfull lot of work just to get something to destroy your world with.

too much...

I like a much simpler life...if it were only that simple. Sounds like a whole lot of pain and torture and worry to me.

Anyone who engages in such behavior is in real need of some real logic.

The chemical dependancies and other dependancies which lead to abuse seem much more likely and plausible to me as the chief reasons for divorce. And I think that the stats on remarriage bear this out as well.
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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2009, 12:47:27 PM »

 
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chosenone
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2009, 12:55:15 PM »

Well John with about 50% of people having affairs, it clearly isnt hard  for many.
 I am with you though. Why would anyone want to do such a thing?I am also a very honest person and could never hide something so serious even if I wanted to (which I dont) . I also fear God far too much.(in the right way I mean)
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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2009, 12:55:15 PM »

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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2009, 01:38:12 PM »

Abuse is the number one reason for divorce.

Usually one spouse is chemically dependant or a sex addict or a gambling addict and so financially, emotionally abuses the other spouse.

all depends upon the point of view doesn't it.

A woman can be chemically dependant or sexually addicted the same as a man can...of course with diffferent characteristics...but dependant just the same. I haven't heard of many women being gambling addicts...but I am sure that whatever group of them that there is is currently growing.

This is provably wrong. Its SO wrong Im surprised to see it stated. The SUM of abuse and adultry even doesnt constitute the number one reason for divorce (physical abuse). Not even close. I can share the study that proves it.
Before someone says "oh just because its not filed as such doesnt mean its not the reason"...the study authors know that, and dug deep enough to have good numbers, the study isnt about what was FILED as the reason...its about what IS the reason, and its methods of discovery are comprehensive.

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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2009, 01:56:45 PM »

According to Associated Content the main reason people get divorced is because of money and cheating, in that order.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/311828/the_most_frequent_cause_of_divorce.html?cat=41
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »

I know when I went through a day of divorce counciling they were saying that most second marriages end for one of these dependancies...(most second marrieages occurring inside of two years from first divorce) and that was the stats that they were telling me...

also that 65% of all second marriages end quickly...80+ percent were done inside of two years of the first divorce and that all of those dependancy issues were the root cause of the divorces.
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »

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« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2009, 02:11:41 PM »

I doubt my second marriage will ever end.  We were made for each other and there is no doubt about it.

It's been 2 years and I am just as much in love with her as when we got married and I know without a doubt she feels the same way.

I actually proposed to her in '82 and she was lukewarm about it and I got tired of waiting for her and broke up and got married to someone else about a year and a half later... I should have stuck it out.. one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2009, 02:35:14 PM »

At least things worked out for you in the end.
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