Author Topic: Divorcing Second Wife And Going Back To The F  (Read 13299 times)

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Offline Perry from the COCN Board

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Divorcing Second Wife And Going Back To The F
« Reply #70 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 08:24:22 »
But polygamy was never condemned.  The catholic church decided to make it a sin.

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« Reply #70 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 08:24:22 »

Offline WileyClarkson

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« Reply #71 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 13:40:50 »
Lauren,

I would highly recommend you order a small booklet published by Star Publications in Ft. Worth.  The name of the booklet is Marriage is God's Plan by Dyrel W. Collins.  The sub title on the booklet is The \"Traditional View\" as taught by Many Is Neither Bliblical Nor The Conservative View

The book relies on both ancient Hebrew and Greek, and the customs and laws of the time frame.  The conclussions of the argument are that one who his given a writ of divorce, according to God's word, was free to remarry.  

The full order info is as follows:

Deryl W. Collins
P.O. Box 9
south Bend Texas 76481

$2.95 + shipping

or

Star Bible Publishing, Inc.
http://starbible.com

You will probably get the fastest service through Star.

I have had the priviledge of chatting with Deryl about his book while at ACU Lectureship.

Offline Jesus4you

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« Reply #72 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 07:33:36 »
O.K Charlie,

You are right .  Let me rephrase this.

The holy men(Hebrews 11) of old were polygamists and adulterers (David) chosen by God before the world began.

Providing we've told God that we are sorry for the act that we have commited, as David did with Bathsheba,
would God hold us to standards  different than theirs.   

If Yes , Why?

Thanks for your replies,
Lauren

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« Reply #72 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 07:33:36 »

Offline janine

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« Reply #73 on: Tue Jan 28, 2003 - 09:25:56 »
Jim - the 'become adulterated\" angle would make a lot of sense to any of the early church with ideas about
the purity of wives
and the wish to avoid a situation like the one outlined in the OT injunction
against taking your ex-wife back after she'd been married to another,
because she'd then be considered defiled; said scenario was an abomination to the Lord.

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« Reply #73 on: Tue Jan 28, 2003 - 09:25:56 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Perry from the COCN Board

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« Reply #74 on: Sun Jan 19, 2003 - 21:30:28 »
I can see how the prevailing error came about in MDR.  It came about by building false assumption on top of another.

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« Reply #74 on: Sun Jan 19, 2003 - 21:30:28 »



Offline Booty

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« Reply #75 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 15:39:40 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Booty,
I'm probably going to leave the congregation .  
[/quote]

Lauren, Try and bring him here first.

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« Reply #75 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 15:39:40 »

Offline Arkstfan

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« Reply #76 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 09:00:44 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Perry from the COCN Board @ Jan. 21 2003,07:24)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]But polygamy was never condemned.  The catholic church decided to make it a sin.[/quote]
Yimeny! In our culture doesn't matter if it isn't a sin, its just good sense. Like I need a second wife in order to increase the number of people who think I'm stupid!

My wife has a new catch phrase for the oblivious way I go around the house not noticing dirty clothes or things in the wrong place.

\"Where do you live any way?\"

I've considered answering that I don't live in this world but she might help me see God sooner if I do.

Offline charlie

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« Reply #77 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 12:22:40 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Interesting sidenote, when reading the Matthew 5 on divorce Jesus saying that only marital unfaithfulness is just cause, but previously he defined adultry (marital unfaithfulness) as a lust in the heart.  I wonder in our culture (so bombarded by images to cause that) if anyone doesn't have just cause from a legalistic standpoint.
[/quote]
Eric,

Good point. Are we taking the MDR passages out of context by 'divorcing' them from the adultery passages in Matt 5? Don't forget, though, that it was porneia (fornication) that was grounds for divorce, and not moichatai (adultery).

Offline charlie

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« Reply #78 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 08:05:25 »
Lauren,

I would say no. I assume that God holds us all to the same standard (i.e. Jesus). David repented of his sin and is counted among the righteous. If we repent, he will do the same for us.

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« Reply #78 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 08:05:25 »

Offline Perry from the COCN Board

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« Reply #79 on: Tue Jan 28, 2003 - 08:18:42 »
One thing we always need to keep in mind when studying our way out of preconceived traps is that marriage is not a living entity.  THere is no such thing as a sin against marriage.
If you were to do you landlord wrong, then that would be a trespass from you against him or her.  If you were to do your spouse wrong, same scenario.  IT would be a trespass from you against him or her.  Just because there is a marriage involved does not mean that in this one situation that there are three or four entities involved.
Most people  believe that in sins against each other, there are two people involved, but IN divorce they somehow in the back of their minds believe that there is a hubby involve, a wife involved, a marriage entitity involve and also God is supposed to be in the back ground with those handcuffs.

Offline Perry from the COCN Board

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« Reply #80 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 08:11:18 »
Guys and gals..
What we should do here to show our liberal solidarity, is to agree to take ONE passage at a time and dissect it.  Then when we have effectively disproved the erroneous misinterpretation of it, then move on to the next passage.  I can't express the importance enough of staying on track.  Then after we have exegeted all of the passages we can send our results to the Spiritual Sword and lovingly tell them to \"bite me\"..   :cool:

Who wants to start?  Shall we start with the Romans passage?

Offline Jesus4you

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« Reply #81 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 17:01:21 »
I'm afraid he try and \"mark \" me, before the congregation as he has done with others. :(

By the way,

When is it O.K. to name names publically in a derogatory way ? :blush:

Offline Booty

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« Reply #82 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 09:11:30 »
I would consider a second wife if she were as sweet as Sandi, but then it would break Sandi's heart and of course number two's heart as well so I believe I will pass. The Lord blessed me with my true soul mate, why ever would I want another?

Of course Sandi could use some help in trying to make me behave, but a warden or nanny might be more appropiate in my case!  :priest:  :priest:

(OK Janine, drop Sandi a line and tell her I am behaving here!)

Offline janine

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« Reply #83 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 11:11:12 »
Depending upon how much this lusty mental unfaithfulness has messed up the family, home and marriage bed, I think so!

'Course, that's MHO.

Offline charlie

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« Reply #84 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 10:13:27 »
I have a question.

In Deut 24:2 it says:
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]2 \"when she has departed from his house, and goes and becomes another man's wife,\"[/quote]
In Matt 5:32 Jesus says:
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]\"But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.\"[/quote]
In the Deut. passage, the sin does not come about until the first husband marries his ex-wife after she had married someone else. But if I read Jesus right, the woman sinned when she got married the second time. Can someone explain that to me?

Offline Arkstfan

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« Reply #85 on: Fri Jan 24, 2003 - 13:07:54 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Was the point of that story to put down your \"legalist\" brother or did you expect to lift yourself up from the praise you'd get on this board? This Christianity is not a war on \"legalists\", it is a war on sin.[/quote]
No Anonymous, the point was an example of how to take this divisive issue and approach it from a contextual point of view rather than to allow it to be approached as a literal command by those unwilling to be literal about the rest of the sermon.

Unlike you I know the parties involved personally and I know from the lesson of experience that unless such a stance was taken quickly that the class discussion was going to be hijacked into a condemnation of a dear sister who has shed too many tears already over the impending destruction of her family.

Do you feel that by attacking me personally you have validated whatever position it is that you have?



[!--EDIT|Arkstfan|Jan. 24 2003,12:09--]

Offline Jim Abb

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« Reply #86 on: Tue Jan 28, 2003 - 06:02:08 »
I wish I had this at hand, but I remember reading that the translation \"causes her to commit adultery\" should instead be \"causes her to become adulterated\". In other words, she is the victim of her husband's action in putting her away without a writ of divorcement. This fits in much more logically with the passages in scripture on divorce and is more faithful to the Greek verb tense in the passage. At least, that is how I recall an earlier study of this issue.

Offline janine

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« Reply #87 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 07:13:04 »
I know of only one actual flesh & blood case, in my years of connection to my congregation, where a lady broke up her marriage because of some variant of the MDR idiocy.  Fortunately, her kids were grown & out of the house by then.

The funny thing is, I'm not sure I recall her going back & marrying the previous, OK-by-the-elders husband.  I think she ended up marrying some other guy altogether,  and moving about 4,000 miles away.  ???

In the only other case where I know the people, a divorce had already taken place.  There were tentative relationships starting up between various members, the new-Christian ex-husband, and the ex-wife who visited our gatherings frequently (because ex-hubby brought their children).

As I recall, without much of an attempt to build connections, pray & study together, or anything like that, the divided couple were told they could never marry anyone else, and they'd go to Hell if they did... and the wife was told she was, anyway, (a) because she had remarried and (b) because she wasn't a Christian (in that order).  That really made the ex-wife interested in the Lord and the Bible and His church, yes sir, yup!

Both of these situations (one when I wasn't a Christian yet, the other when we were attending elsewhere) show us that it will surely happen again, sometime, somehow, and that we will have to be ostracized for standing up for the people involved.

No way we'll be quiet if people are told to bust up families for a religious principle that's not black-and-white plainly spelled out.  I don't even mean \"for an incorrect religious principle\".  I mean that, if it were correct, it would be by virtue of being built up out of a pile of cut & pasted Scriptures, all crocheted together, and requiring a scaffold of logical thought and inferences to be understood.

You don't go around hanging people's salvation on a hook of them coming to the same conclusions you found after stacking up a lacy Babel-tower of Scriptures.  Even if you are right, they don't see it for themselves, but they're going along with you, and are basing their salvation on the fruits of your mind.  That's not good enough, and won't last longer than your hold over the poor convert anyway.

Offline janine

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« Reply #88 on: Mon Jan 20, 2003 - 16:01:23 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Booty,
I'm probably going to leave the congregation .  
[/quote]

Lauren, Try and bring him here first.[/quote]
\"Here\" to the GCM board or \"here\" to Venezuela?

Offline janine

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« Reply #89 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 09:17:49 »
If we keep sticking all these little priests :priest: in our posts, we'll maintain the holy tone we need.

Yeah, I'll tell Sandi you're out trawling for \"an helpmeet\" for her, heh heh heh ... Every wife needs a wife to valet for her.  I often tell Mike I need a wife.

Offline Eric

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« Reply #90 on: Tue Jan 21, 2003 - 11:02:12 »
Grounds for divorce is a term that does not apply to my understanding of things.  I believe that there are times in some lives where divorce is the lesser of the evils.  If someone has abondoned their family, it would be wise to protect the family from that person causing more damage.  

Interesting sidenote, when reading the Matthew 5 on divorce Jesus saying that only marital unfaithfulness is just cause, but previously he defined adultry (marital unfaithfulness) as a lust in the heart.  I wonder in our culture (so bombarded by images to cause that) if anyone doesn't have just cause from a legalistic standpoint.

Eric

Offline charlie

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« Reply #91 on: Fri Jan 24, 2003 - 13:20:37 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The legalist misleads in suggesting that one's behavior is the key to attaining God's favor.  There is only one obedience that saves - that of Christ Jesus.[/quote]
Segell,
Never heard it put better. Thank you. In \"obeying the gospel\", we all too often leave out \"the gospel\".

Offline Eric

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« Reply #92 on: Tue Jan 28, 2003 - 01:32:12 »
When Jesus states:
\"But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.\"

I think that we place the emPHasis on the wrong part.  In the culture of the time, the man was free and clear, all he had to do was to sign a piece of paper and send the woman back home (or to the streets).  She was no longer his responsibility.  But Jesus is telling the men that infact they are responsible.  They hold the power in that culture and they then hold greater responsibility for the welfare of those with less power.  The emphasis is on the \"cause\" because causing someone to sin is sinning (\"it would be better to tie a millstone around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to sin\")

This passage is not about the law of what is allowable for divorce, but rather it is about how serious divorce is and that even though you have the power to do it, think carefully before you act, because God cares about the situation.

There are times when divorce is the lesser of the 2 evils (I have talked to people who have gone through that very situation).  God hates divorce.  God hates even more those with power that abuse it.

Eric

Offline Perry from the COCN Board

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Divorcing Second Wife And Going Back To The F
« Reply #93 on: Mon Jan 27, 2003 - 11:43:40 »
R C H Lenski states that 5:32 would read better 'causes her to take on the stigma of adultery\"...because she had not any sexual sin but it appeared as if she did because her hubby hated her.

 

     
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