Author Topic: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?  (Read 415 times)

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Offline monz_monz

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Hi, I'm new to Christianity and tryig so far to understand the basics. The first question I got is if it could be that the Earth and mankind is not the first God's creation since it's said that God has found that it was good what he did and thus there should be something 'bad', probably done earlier...

same question with a bit more citations. Link removed per forum rules

« Last Edit: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 14:53:08 by Johnb »

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Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 14:09:46 »
Hi, I'm new to Christianity and tryig so far to understand the basics. The first question I got is if it could be that the Earth and mankind is not the first God's creation since it's said that God has found that it was good what he did and thus there should be something 'bad', probably done earlier...


Your suggestion that when God said it was good that it must mean he had done something bad,probably earlier?

Did I understand you correctly?

NO. You cannot  draw any such connections here. God did not create anything bad. Not in relation to earth or mankind.

This is a very complicated study,and a study that one cannot undertake lightly.... or quickly.

If you are serious about things I suggest you endeavor to do many searches on Grace Centers into creation as well as evolution. Get the input from many who have knowledge and study on the subject to help you find which way you personally will start to form your beliefs.

Keeping in mind that both sides of this coin are seemingly valid as you read.

But know always that when God created. Either under the young earth believers... ( those who believe we are somewhere from 7,000 to 13,000 years old) and the evolutionists and also those that believe things came about millions and millions of years ago without evolution.

It is fascinating....

But always know that no matter who is correct God never did anything bad.... regarding us.




« Last Edit: Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 16:30:41 by Johnb »

Offline monz_monz

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 14:22:33 »
yes, you understood me correctly. That was actually a question from my kid I didn't know how to answer. Although technically I'm a christian for almost thirty years I never thought much about religeous stuff until now when I need to explain all this to the kid and see that I myself have very little understanding of the bible... fortunately we haven't yet got to the place where it says about 7,000 y.o. world

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 14:22:33 »

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 15:58:58 »
yes, you understood me correctly. That was actually a question from my kid I didn't know how to answer. Although technically I'm a christian for almost thirty years I never thought much about religeous stuff until now when I need to explain all this to the kid and see that I myself have very little understanding of the bible... fortunately we haven't yet got to the place where it says about 7,000 y.o. world

OK. I need to correct myself. I should have said 6,000 years not 7. So sorry

Are you starting to read the bible from Genesis 1 vs  1 and are you trying to explain to your kid what you understand from your reading whatever questions you are asked?

I need to suggest to you that the first and most important....actually the only important thing you should be impressing upon your kid is the reason you are a Christian in the first place.

And while creation is certainly important, it is Jesus , who He is/was and what He did for us that needs to be totally ingrained in yourself  and your child.

If you never learn any other thing in the bible this is must.

Now, there is nowhere in the bible that tells us the earth and we are 7,000 years old. That conclusion was drawn by many educated people who have traced the genealogies of Adam forward,and then from Noah after the flood.

And the study of the Jews with reference to a 4,000 approx year  existence from Adam until Jesus.

Then Jesus until today of approx 2,000 years making it 6,000.

That is the simplistic view. Possibly one that would be good for your child, depending on your child's age.
And certainly the view held by YE ( young earth believers)

But you or you child does not need this info until you realize and understand about Jesus.

What the YE ideas do not address is where those things that have scientifically been proven and certain species that have turned up, but are not mentioned in the story of Adam and forward.

It can be fascinating to read and learn but likely too much for a child. (Example: were do Neanderthals fit in? YE will say there were never any)

Grace Centered is a good place for you to be to read, learn, ask questions. But fair warning. Not all agree on here and there are often many spirited discussions. Don't let that chase you away.)

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 15:58:58 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline dpr

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 02:59:03 »
Genesis 1 does go a lot deeper than what most Churches believe or teach. There's differences in the Hebrew which English translators did not bring forth. But even the 1611 KJV Bible does reveal more there, if you know about the old earth to begin with.

God's Word does not support the theory of evolution. You can rest assured of that.

But God's creation is a lot older than 6,000 years though.

The 6,000 year old theory originally started when those like bishop Ussher in his 17th century work set the date of God forming the man Adam in His Garden at 4004 B.C. He went from the time of Christ with all the begats in the Old Testament and came up with that date for Adam. Others added 2,000 years to that and magic, the 6,000 years theory, simply because man can't go back any farther in Bible history than Adam. Doesn't mean that's when God started His original creation though.

Some Bible Scriptures suggest there was a previous world time involving the earth, a time when Satan was perfect in his ways with following God. It was a time before sin and death, prior to Satan's original rebellion in wanting to be God. It was originally Satan's job to guard God's throne. Satan originally was an anointed cherub that covereth per the parable about him in Ezekiel 28.

The fossil evidence left on earth also supports this idea, and it has nothing to do with theories of evolution. The fossil record supports the past history of a major destruction upon the earth, which may have been the result of God destroying the old world when Satan first rebelled against Him.


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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 02:59:03 »



Offline monz_monz

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 03:43:53 »
OK. I need to correct myself. I should have said 6,000 years not 7. So sorry

Are you starting to read the bible from Genesis 1 vs  1 and are you trying to explain to your kid what you understand from your reading whatever questions you are asked?
yes. we actually started reading random pieces of the Bible, something from Leviticus but that was beyond my undertanding at all so we decided to turn to a more basic stuff and got to Genesis but it appeared also not so easy

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 03:43:53 »

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 09:18:29 »
yes. we actually started reading random pieces of the Bible, something from Leviticus but that was beyond my undertanding at all so we decided to turn to a more basic stuff and got to Genesis but it appeared also not so easy

Baby steps.

Reading the bible is not altogether easy or for the faint of heart... LOL

No, not making fun of a serious subject and I do commend you for starting this.

But just like when you first learned to read and were given books that were basically understandable for a new learner you know that you could never have undertaken the War and Peace for example... even if you knew what each word meant.

So, Start at the beginning and when something is troublesome for you you can do an online search saying something like What does Genesis 15:3 mean ( just an example) and you will see many ideas and notions.

OR you can come here and pose questions.

But better yet would be for you to get a bible that has commentaries right along side of the scriptures .

Any book store or Amazon will offer these.

Look at the drop down list of some online sources...

https://www.google.com/search?q=bible+with+commentaries&oq=Bible+with+commentaries&aqs=chrome.0.0l8.7803j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

You will find differing opinions of certain things if you look at more then one.

Unfortunately there is nothing that is easy to read within the bible. And the commentaries often are as varied as the ideas here

But start with baby steps and then come back here often... daily if possible...

I commend you for doing this. Most of us have been at it for years an years and I, at least, are still learning things.


Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #7 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 09:25:40 »
Genesis 1 does go a lot deeper than what most Churches believe or teach. There's differences in the Hebrew which English translators did not bring forth. But even the 1611 KJV Bible does reveal more there, if you know about the old earth to begin with.

God's Word does not support the theory of evolution. You can rest assured of that.

But God's creation is a lot older than 6,000 years though.

The 6,000 year old theory originally started when those like bishop Ussher in his 17th century work set the date of God forming the man Adam in His Garden at 4004 B.C. He went from the time of Christ with all the begats in the Old Testament and came up with that date for Adam. Others added 2,000 years to that and magic, the 6,000 years theory, simply because man can't go back any farther in Bible history than Adam. Doesn't mean that's when God started His original creation though.

Some Bible Scriptures suggest there was a previous world time involving the earth, a time when Satan was perfect in his ways with following God. It was a time before sin and death, prior to Satan's original rebellion in wanting to be God. It was originally Satan's job to guard God's throne. Satan originally was an anointed cherub that covereth per the parable about him in Ezekiel 28.

The fossil evidence left on earth also supports this idea, and it has nothing to do with theories of evolution. The fossil record supports the past history of a major destruction upon the earth, which may have been the result of God destroying the old world when Satan first rebelled against Him.

Thank you dpr.

Nicely said.

But the OP is a newbie in the reading of the word. And he is educating his child.

It is best to not get them off the actual written word until they , at least dad, has a solid bases in our handbook that was
given to us to follow... then he can enjoy exploring other things like the fossil world and such.

And any suggestions of a previous world time involving the earth.

This is speculative at best and confusing to a new learner at worst.

So when he asks can we just aid him in understanding specific things?


Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 17:22:37 »
yes. we actually started reading random pieces of the Bible, something from Leviticus but that was beyond my undertanding at all so we decided to turn to a more basic stuff and got to Genesis but it appeared also not so easy.
Genesis is probably the hardest book in the Bible.

If you're looking for a starting place in the Old Testament, I recommend Deuteronomy.

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 17:22:37 »

Offline dpr

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 09:57:05 »
Genesis is the front cover of God's Word and Revelation is the back cover. And both Books house the rest of God's Word in between. So really can't understand a lot things written in between without first understanding the front cover (Genesis). And there is still unfulfilled prophecy written in the Book of Genesis specifically about the last days, so it is a very important study for today too.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 10:22:31 »
Genesis is the front cover of God's Word and Revelation is the back cover. And both Books house the rest of God's Word in between. So really can't understand a lot things written in between without first understanding the front cover (Genesis). And there is still unfulfilled prophecy written in the Book of Genesis specifically about the last days, so it is a very important study for today too.
This is terrible advice.  You're pointing a newbie at probably the hardest two books in the Bible to understand, and telling them to start there?

Offline dpr

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 10:43:12 »
This is terrible advice.  You're pointing a newbie at probably the hardest two books in the Bible to understand, and telling them to start there?

What? And Deuteronomy is a good place to start instead, which include things that Jesus nailed to His cross that are no longer in effect?!? That's madness!

Genesis 1:1 is the place to start, line upon line, chapter by chapter, going ALL the way through to the end of Revelation. A proper study in God's Word using good tools like a Strong's Concordance and The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge cross-references will flow study in other Bible Books along the way, so it's not supposed to be like reading a novel.

 

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 18:10:48 »
What? And Deuteronomy is a good place to start instead, which include things that Jesus nailed to His cross that are no longer in effect?!? That's madness!
Yes, it is.  It introduces the protagonist (Israel) immediately, hits the 10 commandments early, and then expounds the idea of a covenant, blessings, and curses all in an orderly fashion.  It's also written as a standalone account, so it doesn't rely on the reader knowing the rest of Scripture first.

BTW, there isn't much of Deuteronomy that's been abrogated.  Most of that you will find in Leviticus (a handbook for an order of priests that was removed) and Numbers (largely a census/genealogical record).

Maybe you should re-read the book.

Offline dpr

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #13 on: Fri Feb 28, 2020 - 01:37:25 »
Sorry, but I'm not Jewish, and the old covenant ordinances and ceremonial worship and priesthood stuff Jesus nailed to His cross, per Col.2. We are no longer subject to keeping many of those old laws given under the old covenant. The old covenant is DEAD.


Yes, it is.  It introduces the protagonist (Israel) immediately, hits the 10 commandments early, and then expounds the idea of a covenant, blessings, and curses all in an orderly fashion.  It's also written as a standalone account, so it doesn't rely on the reader knowing the rest of Scripture first.

BTW, there isn't much of Deuteronomy that's been abrogated.  Most of that you will find in Leviticus (a handbook for an order of priests that was removed) and Numbers (largely a census/genealogical record).

Maybe you should re-read the book.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Feb 28, 2020 - 13:21:11 »
Sorry, but I'm not Jewish, and the old covenant ordinances and ceremonial worship and priesthood stuff Jesus nailed to His cross, per Col.2. We are no longer subject to keeping many of those old laws given under the old covenant. The old covenant is DEAD.
I see we've reached the point in the conversation where you simply refuse to read the Bible for what it says.  ::noworries::  If you did, you might notice that Deuteronomy doesn't actually contain the ordinances, traditions, or much at all about the priesthood.

But, apparently you have resigned yourself to being a New-Testament-only guy.  That's ok, the New Testament quotes Deuteronomy more than any other source, so I guess you'll still get your fill, indirectly at least.


Offline monz_monz

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #15 on: Sun Mar 01, 2020 - 03:31:05 »
thank you all for your responses! Unfortunately I can't read all what was suggested but at least I have a list to proceed with now.
and let me share this Sunday's discussion  - that was quite short but still quite funny -

the kid - are we christians?
me - sure thing!
kid - but we haven't been to a Church since last easter (not 100% true, but quite close)
me - well, going to a Church is good but you can still be a Chirstian without going to a church
kid - then what is it that makes you a christian?

The first thing I got on my mind was "to  love  your  neighbor  as   yourself" and then I amended it with  a quote from Great Commandment but it didn't sound very persuasively.
After reading few quite lengthy topics I found on the reddit and similar forums I see that most people can't formulate it briefly and precisely (like the muslims with shahada)  and talking mostly about abstract things feeling/having God's love.

so my question - what is your definition of a Chirstian - in as little words as possible?

and we keep our talks online here - - just to gather all the responses - feel free to join in


<link removed as per forum rules>
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 01, 2020 - 08:07:20 by Alan »

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #16 on: Sun Mar 01, 2020 - 13:08:25 »
thank you all for your responses! Unfortunately I can't read all what was suggested but at least I have a list to proceed with now.
and let me share this Sunday's discussion  - that was quite short but still quite funny -

the kid - are we christians?
me - sure thing!
kid - but we haven't been to a Church since last easter (not 100% true, but quite close)
me - well, going to a Church is good but you can still be a Chirstian without going to a church
kid - then what is it that makes you a christian?

The first thing I got on my mind was "to  love  your  neighbor  as   yourself" and then I amended it with  a quote from Great Commandment but it didn't sound very persuasively.
After reading few quite lengthy topics I found on the reddit and similar forums I see that most people can't formulate it briefly and precisely (like the muslims with shahada)  and talking mostly about abstract things feeling/having God's love.

so my question - what is your definition of a Chirstian - in as little words as possible?

and we keep our talks online here - - just to gather all the responses - feel free to join in


<link removed as per forum rules>

This is not a simple question to answer as short as possible.  You should tell your kids it is your belief in Jesus. For Jesus is what makes a Christian a Christian.

Start by showing your children.....

John 3:16 John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

this is the most concise way that you biblically have proof for your kids.

Then


John 11:25-26
"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live.'"

Follow with:

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Corinthians 5:7
"For we walk by faith, not by sight."

And

Hebrews 11:6-7
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Also :

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Offline dpr

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Re: Does Genesis hints that the Earth is not the first God's creation?
« Reply #17 on: Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 18:57:52 »
I see we've reached the point in the conversation where you simply refuse to read the Bible for what it says. ::noworries::  If you did, you might notice that Deuteronomy doesn't actually contain the ordinances, traditions, or much at all about the priesthood.

But, apparently you have resigned yourself to being a New-Testament-only guy.  That's ok, the New Testament quotes Deuteronomy more than any other source, so I guess you'll still get your fill, indirectly at least.

Those are slanderous words, and they are false.

Those in Christ DO NOT DO ANIMAL SACRIFICES NOR THE OLD COVENANT PRACTICES, and those are these ordinances in God's law...

Deut 12:11
11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
KJV

Deut 12:13-14
13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
KJV

Deut 12:26-27
26 Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the LORD shall choose:

27 And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.
KJV