Author Topic: Does God Sing  (Read 4970 times)

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Offline janine

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Does God Sing
« on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:58:23 »
Maybe He has no choice but to sing in the face of evil.  Maybe that very breath of life that holds all things together in & under Christ, is breathed out in His song. :)

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Does God Sing
« on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:58:23 »

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #1 on: Tue Jun 25, 2002 - 11:20:07 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (living4him @ June 24 2002,6:08)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Well..., does God sing or not?

Can all who agree that God sings raise your hand? -:)

 ;)[/quote]
hmm...if He has the required vocal appratus and exists within an atmosphere that can transmit sound waves, yes.
but the bigger question is-if God sings where no one hears is there any sound?

dj ???

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #2 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 06:04:05 »
Back in the 18th century, many folks believed in "the music of the spheres" and actually thought there was something musical about the way the universe worked. I am not sure if they meant this metaphorically or literally.

Also at this time, Aeolian harps were in almost every garden in Europe. Those who owned them felt nature played music on them more beautifully than anything orchestrated. To hear one just enter "Aeolian Harp" on Google, and you should find a web site that has the sound.

The old Finnish composer Sibelius, according to one commentator, believed God's Orchestra would occasionally play one of his symphonies. Why not?

Haydn, in The Creation tried to express the song of creation in an Oratorio, and who can forget the powerful Veni Creator Spiritus sang in the great cathedrals of the middle ages?

So, what is there about singing, about music, that puts us in touch with something deeper than thought?

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« Reply #2 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 06:04:05 »

Offline OldDad

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« Reply #3 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 22:35:06 »
dj,

Yes, you did say you thought the passage presented for consideration was "figurative".  You went on in a later post to say
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]...if He has the required vocal appratus and exists within an atmosphere that can transmit sound waves, yes.
[/quote]

"Requiring" that God meet the physical requirements we are subject to, does indeed do what I asserted.

Thank you for pointing out a specific instance of God speaking and being heard audibly.  I have no idea how he generated the sound. The simplistic truth is that He is God, and He can and frequently did (does?) use physical, tangible means of communicating with His people.  (Burning bushes, talking donkeys, things like that...)

OD

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« Reply #3 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 22:35:06 »

Offline WileyClarkson

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« Reply #4 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 16:14:09 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--] I happen to think He works within the frameworks He created.[/quote]

I think we work within the frameworks he created.  He is capable of working in any framework he desires, which may well be one we have no understanding of.

Does God sing?  The angels sing.  What framework are the angels singing in when they are in God's presence--physical or spiritual?  Is this a place in our physical universe or God's spiritual universe--which we know nothing about---yet.  What about an air supply for the sound waves to move through in the presence of God for the angels to sing their praise?  Does God or the angels need air?  Singing is mentioned throughout Scripture both in the heavenly realms (sometimes with instruments) and in the physical realms.  It seems to be almost the single most important form of praise considering that the angels sing in His presence and we will sing in His presence.  That being the case, seems reference to God singing may indeed be accurate.  If angels can communicate with man through dreams/thoughts which would not occur in air, wouldn't it seem plausible that singing could occur in the same method?

Now, all that said, I see the Scripture in discussion as being used to describe the feelings of God since singing is so often
used or related to the feelings of our heart.

Well, it's just one more thing we will find out someday, and, boy do I have alot of things to find out.  This just added another to the list :)

God bless,

Wiley

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« Reply #4 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 16:14:09 »



Offline david johnson

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« Reply #5 on: Fri Jun 28, 2002 - 00:40:25 »
singing comrades:

and i thought i read things figuratively at times.  i bow to your poetic souls.  good job.
will God object if i elect to only sing inwardly from now on?

dj

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« Reply #5 on: Fri Jun 28, 2002 - 00:40:25 »

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #6 on: Sat Jun 29, 2002 - 19:38:30 »
dj, I love the way Rimski-Korsakov put together Borodin's Prince Igor from his scattered notes and made a coherent and moving opera. Also, the man is simply a master orchestrator, and I still love to listen to his Russian Easter Overture and Scheherazade. Snow Maiden, and Tsar Sultan are also most listenable.

I read in Shostakovich' Memoirs that some of Rimsky's descendants were furious at Stalin for picking Tchaikovsky as Russia's best modern composer.

Perhaps it is off the thread, but music is a wide universe and I am always hopeful some musician like you can take some themes from these gifted people and integrate them into songs and hymns.

After all, if Borodin's works could be adapted into the musical Kismet, think what the Nocturne from his string quartet could sound like with some inspiring lyrics!

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #7 on: Mon Jul 01, 2002 - 21:19:16 »
TC, don't you think it's a shame that Tchaikovsky has his tenor, Lensky, killed in the first act of Eugene Onegin while the baritone lasts until the very end?

I don't suppose you will revise God's voice into being a basso, at least that's what Cecil B. DeMille depicted in the Ten Commandments?

Totally agree with your insights into the nature of music, very poetically expressed.

d.j. How are you doing on arranging Borodin's nocturne from his string quartet for four part harmony?

Offline living4him

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« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:02:19 »
The thought never occured to me until I read Zephaniah 3: 17 "The Lord your God is with you,
he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you,
he will quiet you with his love,
he will rejoice over you with singing."

Does anyone know how God sings ?
If we are created to be like God.
Does God sing like we do?


Does he ever miss a beat?

Thanks if anyone has an answer,
 :0  :0

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« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:02:19 »

Offline living4him

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« Reply #9 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:37:37 »
:) Thanks Janine,

I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.
If we are suppose to be like Jesus, and Jesus was the fullness of God, it would seem very likely that God sings. I just wonder how and when God sings, and how he can sing when most of the world is lost and going to hell without Jesus Christ .

Lauren :D

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:59:07 »
There is a passage in Job that speaks of creation saying; "When all the morning stars sang together, and the children of God shouted for joy." I am too lazy right now to go look it up exactly, but check it out.

C. S. Lewis used to say that misery is not going to win. I take this to mean God will go on singing, not in some attitude of ignoring the pain of the world, but in some way trying to salve it.

Austin Farrer writes of having to surrender our "despair of virtue" in order to come to know God better.

Offline living4him

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« Reply #11 on: Tue Jun 25, 2002 - 01:08:58 »
Well..., does God sing or not?

Can all who agree that God sings raise your hand? -:)

 ;)

Offline janine

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« Reply #12 on: Tue Jun 25, 2002 - 13:56:34 »
I can't raise my hand, I'll get written up. :D

There's more to singing than vibrating sound waves, yes?

If people 'singing' in Ameslan aren't singing, what are they doing? :)

Offline seekr

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« Reply #13 on: Tue Jun 25, 2002 - 18:46:46 »
Hey, i think it is enough that He ceated the song and put it into us, but if the Spirit intercedes for us, then probably God is singing.

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« Reply #14 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 00:22:43 »
C'mon dj, of you are being too scientific.  Maybe God is simply making melody in his heart.

But more seriously, I think he probably uses instruments. . . . like crashing thunder, roaring surf, the song of his birds, etc.  Maybe even those of us [I should say you] who sound good.

And I suspect he joins in with the angels as they rejoice over each being saved.

Offline janine

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« Reply #15 on: Fri Jun 28, 2002 - 13:05:50 »
Neat thread.

Last night was the every-last-Thursday Homestyle Gospel Singin' at the community room of the electric cooperative...

Folks there know of my a capella preferences & so we do some of the songs instrumentless...

We stood up front, my daughter and I, and performed and led others in different songs of praise & thanksgiving & all that other wonderful stuff... request after request came from the mostly older participants... Weren't they sweet to get into the a capella pieces like that, when all of them are from a pounding piano or pipe organ tradition?

We had opportunity to use our gifts and minister to others... I suppose people are being touched when they cry in public... unless they were weeping in pain 'cause we were so bad!  I doubt that, though, 'cause my girl has an opera-quality voice.

I like that there seems to be so much singing in our relationship to God, and so much singing in the life to come.

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #16 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 12:24:02 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Guest @ June 25 2002,5:22)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]C'mon dj, of you are being too scientific.  Maybe God is simply making melody in his heart.

But more seriously, I think he probably uses instruments. . . . like crashing thunder, roaring surf, the song of his birds, etc.  Maybe even those of us [I should say you] who sound good.

And I suspect he joins in with the angels as they rejoice over each being saved.[/quote]
neo:

if you reread my first reply, you'll see i hold those scriptures to be figurative.  those who insist it must be literal singing are the ones who have to address the physical requirements of the action.

dj

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #17 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 21:57:01 »
old dad:

i didn't do what you seem to assert i did.  i said the scripture under discussion was figurative.  nothing wrong with pointing out that a literalist also has things to consider.
the nt also references God being heard at Jesus' baptism.
how do you think He generated the sound?

dj

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« Reply #18 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 00:06:49 »
dj,

I know you said figurative.  So how do we decide what is figurative and what is literal?

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #19 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 11:47:28 »
old dad:

i place no requirements on the Master.  He is the one who determined how sound waves are generated.  I happen to think He works within the frameworks He created.

dj

Offline seekr

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« Reply #20 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 18:30:11 »
Yes, Wiley, but the great thing is I do not think it will matter so much to us then as we rejoice along with the King.

Maurine

Offline living4him

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« Reply #21 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 20:22:45 »
Its just such an uplifting thought to me. :D

Offline julie danley

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« Reply #22 on: Fri Jun 28, 2002 - 03:18:33 »
I have thought since I was a small child that music touched something so deep that there was no way to describe it.  Maybe it is that part of us that is closest to God...wow! God singing...I want to hear and be a part of that.  I want to sing with God.  grace, Julie

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #23 on: Sat Jun 29, 2002 - 12:05:18 »
bob:

i know what you're saying.  to me, the most enjoyable music has a 'poetic' quality and the most enjoyable poetry has a 'musical' quality.
off topic-listen to much rimsky-korsakov?

dj

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #24 on: Sat Jun 29, 2002 - 22:57:49 »
hmmm...chamber hymns for congregations of the 21st century......that's a thought.

russian easter overture-almost my favorite anything.
try daniel barenboim w/chicago on the dg label.

dj

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #25 on: Sun Jun 30, 2002 - 12:28:58 »
tc:

i've read silmarillion and enjoyed it.  i still have it somewhere.
add improvisation to your list of what goes into music.  visited your site and read your script-keep it up.

happy early 4th
dj

Offline janine

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« Reply #26 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 20:19:53 »
A priest sings a Mass, I sing weddings and funerals, Christians sing praise & thanks & teaching & everything else... God sings His joy over us.

Not hard to swallow at all.  I'm gonna do a word study on that this evening, Lord & time willing.  Thanks for bringing it up.

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #27 on: Mon Jun 24, 2002 - 22:31:33 »
i believe the language to be figurative.

dj

Offline living4him

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« Reply #28 on: Tue Jun 25, 2002 - 21:28:51 »
How pretty Maurine,

Thanks,
Lauren

Offline OldDad

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« Reply #29 on: Wed Jun 26, 2002 - 21:25:29 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]those who insist it must be literal singing are the ones who have to address the physical requirements of the action.
[/quote]

If the OT is reliable, and I firmly believe it is, at points in past history God spoke in a voice that was heard audibly.  Doesn't it follow that He could sing?  We must be careful about making God in our image, imagining that He is subject to the "physical" reqirements of His created world.

OD

Offline living4him

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« Reply #30 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 00:37:31 »
In Matthew 26:30 its says, "When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives." Then if Jesus, sung with the disciples ... then was God singing?

If we are commanded to be like God (Ephesians ), and his Holy Spirit lives in us, and God has commanded us to sing(Ephesians),  is God commanding us to do something that he does?
 ;)

Offline david johnson

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« Reply #31 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 11:38:52 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Guest @ June 26 2002,5:06)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]dj,

I know you said figurative.  So how do we decide what is figurative and what is literal?[/quote]
neo:

considering the literary genre of the scripture i'm studying at the time influences me.  i don't claim that to be right, but that's what happens with me:)

dj

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« Reply #32 on: Thu Jun 27, 2002 - 19:12:28 »
I would suggest that singing is more than patterns or melodies created by vibrating vocal chords.  Singing is pouring forth emotions in ways that go beyond logical, prosaic expression.  Singing is revelation of the spirit.  It is celebrating (or sometimes even mourning) who we are, what we feel, what we experience, what we give and what we have been given.

And so I would say that yes, God sings.

Offline nerdneh

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« Reply #33 on: Fri Jun 28, 2002 - 05:04:45 »
dj, I like your playful sense of humor and your e e cummings style of writing. Tell me if you, a musician, believe someone can be a musician and not be a poet?

Perhaps not a rhyme meister, but still a poet nevertheless. For what is music but a metaphor?

Offline T.C.

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« Reply #34 on: Sun Jun 30, 2002 - 09:22:24 »
Sometimes I think that, when poetic parts of Scripture talk about some attribute of God, the difference between 'figurative' and 'literal' is just a matter of what part of the universe you're watching from.

Does God 'sing' over us? In the passage which started the thread, my Bible says He will 'rejoice' over us. Rejoicing isn't always singing, and singing isn't always rejoicing.

HOWEVER....

I think He sings. Is it audible to human ears? No, nothing so mundane -- God is spirit, and the sound of His voice goes way beyond the physical -- but could include it if He decided that it needed to.

I think He sings. Why else would music, of all forms of communication, go the farthest to communicate on an intellectual, emotional, physical, and sometimes spiritual level, if it wasn't somehow a picture of how God communicates with us?

I think He sings. Music is structure, creativity, and energy all wrapped up together -- yet another picture of God.

I think He sings. I think He's a tenor, but then I'm a tenor, and we tenors are noted for having egos larger than the Tower of Babel ever got!

    -T.C.

p.s. - Anybody ever read the Silmarillion by Tolkein? Interesting imagery with regard to music, as I recall.