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Author Topic: Does learning greek and hebrew guarentee an understanding of scripture?  (Read 4391 times)

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Offline EDEN2004

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Greek and Hebrew are dead languages

They are very much alive. 

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NO ONE understands their original meaning

Bold generalization and something of an oxymoron - if no one studies the extant copies how would anyone know they understand or misunderstand those texts?

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and their is no such thing as the original text, all so called original texts are copies of the originals.

Quite so - but so what?  The Bible you read comes from those extant texts.

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Unless you desire total confusing and misunderstanding of the bible, stay away from them.

The head-in-the-sand approach never works.

The bible is a spiritual book, written for spiritual people. I just gave you spiritual proof from the bible that the bible is written in all languages for everyone to read. The bible also tells us that he will preserve his word forever. Why do you not believe this?

Psa 12:6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I think my post went right over your head. This is proof of my last point "Unless you desire total confusing and misunderstanding of the bible, stay away from them."

You are trying to read a spiritual book with a carnal mind, you have no clue of what the bible really teaches.

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Offline wayseer

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I think my post went right over your head.

I think your post originates from your head - certainly not from scripture.
Not all those who wander are lost.

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Offline gbzone

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Does not faith come by hearing and understanding the Word?

Jesus Christ , the word come in the flesh.

Joh_6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

My Sheep hear my voice..

2Co_3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Who did the disciples learn from, " Jesus. the Word of God".

You can spend your whole life reading books, and filling yourself with the knowledge, " about", God, but untill you empty yourself and go to Christ you will never know God.

In His LOve


I am not nor have spoken about 'books' But rather THE book commonly known as the  Bible which also is called the Scriptures and also The Word of God.
I dont quote Calvin or any other book  but the "Scriptures"
True is it written "that the letter killeth" But the Spirit giveth life"

But the idea that you then discard the letter and only have the Spirit is like saying  that seed that falls into the ground and dies, viz the BODY  is discarded  and it is only the Spirit  that lives.

You say Jesus is the Word of God. TRue that is and the WORD was made flesh.

There is a man of "FLESH AND BONE" that sits on the right hand of the majesty on high"
Not flesh and blood  fro the blood was shed for the sins of the world.
The"...... life is in the blood" This flesh and bone then "has life initself" But that life is now by the Spirit.

If then Jesus was raised from the dead.It was not the Spirit that waas raised from the dead  but the body.and that body was raised from the dead by the Spirit of God.

If then the body needs the Spirit  so then the Word needs the Spirit also.

Jesus said the "Spirit will speak of me..................." Therefore the Holy Spirit will not contradict the BODY or the Word.

Thus you have the BODY of truth.
and you have the Spirit of truth.
The one conforms to the other.

To empty ones self needs to be qualified.
For then what will you be filled with?
You say the Spirit of God.
But without the Word of God?

I think not.

"If any man has this seed in him I will raise him up ..........." thus in an other place it is also written "The seed is the Word"

You catt have one without the other.

Though you can have the Word alone and not know the other.

"For ye boast in the scriptures but know not him of whom the scriptures speak"

But you cannnot know HIm and not know the scripture.

in Christ

Gerald
INFO@WVFC is the website of my church which I attend and also contains the live preaching and pod casts of the preaching of Dr Albert Chambers who is its minister and founder of WVFC,who I have been listening to for the last 30 years.

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Offline JohnDB

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Torah tohrah.

These two words are closely related.

One is the bible & the other the hebrew word for spiritually clean.

A little wind/Spirit added to the Bible & you are clean.
I wanna die like grandpa, peacefully and in my sleep; not like the passengers in his car...they were all screaming and panicking.

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p.rehbein

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Torah tohrah.

These two words are closely related.

One is the bible & the other the hebrew word for spiritually clean.

A little wind/Spirit added to the Bible & you are clean.


........so, if someone says I'm longwinded, that's not really a bad thing is it?..........

 ::headscratch::

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Offline fenton

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i thought Torah Torah was a Japanese movie???   ::doh::
::frustrated:: Headaches

I am not living in hell and if this is heaven then God lied and God is not a liar!!!

Pro 1:23  Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

1Jn 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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Offline LightHammer

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3. You mean the ECF's mention one (emphasis) possible Hebrew version of Matthew? One out of all four Gospels 23 other NT text. If there is one book that even has the possibility of being written in Hebrew and the rest Greek that only further attest to the dominance of the Septugaint.

Hold on a second there... there's plenty of people out there that think that more than just Matthew was originally written in NOT-GREEK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshitta

Jarrod

P.S.  That isn't Hebrew either....


My emphasis wasn't on the ECF's being the only (I didn't know one way or the other). My emphasis being on Matthew being the only book of the NT possibly being written not in Greek. The implication is that Greek was the dominant language hence the dominance of the Septugaint over the Hebrew text.

My point is that Matthew is NOT the only book of the NT possibly not written in Greek.  The Peshitta is an Syriac (aka Aramaic) version of the NT with origins older than the Vulgate.  I believe the Syrian Orthodox church believes it to be more or less THE original text.  That claim is not non-sense, even if it is not the prevailing opinion at this point in history.

Jarrod


How does origins older than the Vulgate help substantiate a claim of originality? The Vulgate is a late 4th century translation.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline mjrhealth

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The words of God they are spirit, they are life, they will not return to Him void, they will complete there task. When all is destroyed, when the world is finished, and all is gone, even so the bible, Gods words will still be preserved for they are spirit, not ink dried upon some line. If the bible is Gods Word, than which of the hundreds of different interpretation of it is the right one. or is God divided in Himself.

In all His Love
Jesus, the only way.....

Offline gbzone

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The words of God they are spirit, they are life, they will not return to Him void, they will complete there task. When all is destroyed, when the world is finished, and all is gone, even so the bible, Gods words will still be preserved for they are spirit, not ink dried upon some line. If the bible is Gods Word, than which of the hundreds of different interpretation of it is the right one. or is God divided in Himself.

In all His Love


So by that argument you discard all versions?
and hold to what?

It was GOD who said "Write these things down" Lest you forget.
Have you forgotten  That  even as a man must give his life(breath) to his words if he is to be heard or understood.
Then if God would have men live  "By every word that proceedeth form the mouth of God"
Is it not  written thast Jesus said "Only the FATHER hath life in Hmself and he ahs given this also to His so,

he then that has the son hast life.

Now it might be that you are not explaining yourself as you might. It would be clearer if talking.

But by my words in relply to yours you should be able to understand either I have misunderstood you or that you are wrong or that I think you are wrogn and why.

It is not then enough to keep replying with the same formula or sayings.
I have understood what you have SAID or written.
Im trying to see if I have understood you correctly.
or misunderstood.
Because by what you have written  you are clealry wrong for reasons I have already shown here and in other posts.

You cannot discard what is written.For you are going against evben how Jesus did things always referigfn to what is written.Even his doctrins came form the old testament.
I then as it is written qwe ate to be maed conformable to Christ.How then can u deny what is written.?

For clarity. You need both The body of truth and the Spirit of truth.and the body of truth ie the sciptures cannot be undrstood as they should accpet by and thriugh the Spirit of truth.

While I accept there are  alot of Spurios versions of the truth.

There is a true one.
As no forgery has value unles it ism like the real one.

in Christ

gerald
INFO@WVFC is the website of my church which I attend and also contains the live preaching and pod casts of the preaching of Dr Albert Chambers who is its minister and founder of WVFC,who I have been listening to for the last 30 years.

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Offline mjrhealth

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Yes there is one truth, His name is Christ, in Him there is no lie and no deceit, His words are spirit and when we receive them they give us life. And I believe Him because He is faithful and true.

In His LOve

If I read 2 accounts of a story, and they both are different, which one is the truth and which one is the lie, there can only be one truth.

Jesus, the only way.....

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Online DaveW

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Quote from: DaveW
The World English Bible (WEB) and the WEB Messianic Edition (HNV) are NOT under copyright, nor is the American Standard Version (ASV) upon which those 2 are based. 
Thanks for the update but im surprised they dont .are you sure?
From their website ebible.org:
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The World English Bible (WEB) is a Public Domain (no copyright) Modern English translation of the Holy Bible. That means that you may freely copy it in any form, including electronic and print formats. The World English Bible is based on the American Standard Version of the Holy Bible first published in 1901, the Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensa Old Testament, and the Greek Majority Text New Testament. It is in draft form, and currently being edited for accuracy and readability. The New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs are close to how they will read when they are finished, but most of the Old Testament still contains some archaic grammar that will be revised. For more information, please see the World English Bible Frequently Asked Questions.

There is also a Hebrew Names Version of the World English Bible (also called the World English Bible: Messianic Edition) that is created by substituting traditional Hebrew names and phrases for equivalent Greek/English names and phrases. Although there are Hebrew versions of some names and a few differing translational choices where more than one rendition is reasonable, the meaning of the Holy Scriptures remains the same. Like the WEB, the HNV is in draft form right now. It is automatically updated as the World English Bible and the substitution list are updated.

As to the ASV, its copyright is long since expired.  The ebible website says this:
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The American Standard Version of the Holy Bible is in the Public Domain. Copy freely. If you find a typo, please report it. Help keep free Bibles online! Support the missionary who runs this site.
Public Domain

Online DaveW

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Greek and Hebrew are dead languages NO ONE understands their original meaning and their is no such thing as the original text, all so called original texts are copies of the originals. Unless you desire total confusing and misunderstanding of the bible, stay away from them. The bible was written and published in every province and language in the world.

Est 1:20  And when the king's decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,) all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.
Est 1:21  And the saying pleased the king and the princes; and the king did according to the word of Memucan:
Est 1:22  For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that it should be published according to the language of every people.
Wow.  Seriously?  You are equating the king's decree to de-throne his wife to the Bible itself??  Talk about out-of-context.

The fact that an earthly king who is about to sign the death-warrant on God's chosen people publishes his edict in several languages has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the bible itself.