Quote from: Michael2012 on Sun Sep 02, 2018 - 13:17:05Michael, You are not grasping the point that it is not repeat not talking about Physical but spiritual death that's all and as 4WD said they did die spiritually right there on the spot.
Those who are in Christ still will die physically, but that does not mean that before Adam's fall, that death already reigns over his physical body, and for that matter, on his posterity.
Physical death, however you may define and qualify it, is death. And concerning death, Paul said in:
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
Through Adam, sin entered the world, where before that, sin was not. That death entered the world through sin, where before that, death was not.
The physical came by naturally because they were cut off from the tree of life that is the only way the would have lived forever if they had eaten of that tree.
Yes spiritual death entered when Adam sinned not before and physical followed because of being blocked from the tree of life so naturally one will die as designed. Everything created on earth dies naturally and not because of Adam. The death talked about is spiritual death being cut off from God. That is what we are redeemed from renewed to.
You say that physical death came by naturally because they were cut off from the tree of life. And I suppose that is coming from your knowledge that whoever eats of the tree of life will live forever. On the other hand what scriptures says concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the very opposite of the tree of life, you seem to not see, as would impart death, which is the opposite of what the tree of life imparts. It must be realized that, with regards these two trees spoken of in Genesis, there is something that results from the eating of their fruit. One brings life and the other brings death. Here's something that you ought to consider:
Gen. 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever
What concern do you see in what the Lord said, but that with regards the eating of the fruit of the tree of life, which would make Adam and Eve to live
forever? Now, tell me sir, is this life concerning the physical or the spiritual or both?
Now, with regards Rom. 5:12 you say that Paul was speaking of spiritual death. Of course that is coming from you, for what it says is "death" in the general sense and not as you make it to be only in the spiritual sense.
Also, you have been talking about spiritual death. What do you really mean by "spiritual death"? When you say Adam died spiritually, what do you mean by that?
You said "That death entered the world through sin, where before that, death was not." here I assume you are trying to say physical so I would have to say prove it. Where is your scripture that says physical death was not before Adam sinned? More to the point who was there to die before Adam?
So unless the animals and plant life was cursed to death with Adam nature was going to pass and so would have man with out the tree of life so Adam caused man to die because he was cut from the tree that would have given him eternal life but that is not what Paul was talking about Paul was talking about spiritual death not physical.
No, I am not at all trying to say that.
You asked "Where is your scripture that says physical death was not before Adam sinned?"
I have already showed you Romans 5:12. The problem is that, while "death" there is spoken in a general sense, you limit it and qualify it to be in the spiritual sense.
You see, scriptures is clear. The wages of sin is death (unqualified). Death is clearly a result of sin. So that, when sin was not yet in the world, that is, before the fall of Adam, there simply is no occasion for death. Also, it is clear that death is a penalty, and that is, of sin. And with regards the man, the penalty of death, involves all that constitutes man.