Author Topic: Forgive to Be Forgiven  (Read 2273 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: Forgive to Be Forgiven
« Reply #175 on: Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:08:48 »
I would most definitely go there and use "my method" of interpreting John 6:50-55.  I have no problem with allegorical passages in scripture.  That is, after all, one of the most common methods of teaching used by Jesus. In such passages the allegorical is still rational.  The problem comes, for example,  when your "proper sense" is given to a passage such as Psalm 14 saying that it proves Total Depravity.  Clearly it does not.
I am going to answer your post here: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/trying-the-spirits-whether-they-are-of-god~1st-john-41/175/ 
Quote from: RB to GB
You have a problem with the doctrine of God's election of GRACE, not with me, only with me, because I simply believe what is written. I am coming back and deal with this doctrine more in-depth.
I'm going to answer you here on this doctrine.   http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/trying-the-spirits-whether-they-are-of-god~1st-john-41/175/ 

I feel as though we (I'm including myself) are hijacking johntwayne's thread.

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Re: Forgive to Be Forgiven
« Reply #175 on: Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:08:48 »

Offline GB

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Re: Forgive to Be Forgiven
« Reply #176 on: Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 12:07:34 »
 author=RB link=topic=105571.msg1055159170#msg1055159170 date=1585079119]
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You do it every time you make a post and that is not misrepresenting you~every person knows this to be so. To prove me wrong all have to do is take what I said in relation to my point wherein I made that statement and prove your point, it is just that simple, but obviously it is above your capacity to do so~and then you get upset because you cannot do so. That's your problem, and your false doctrine causing that problem.  Here is exactly what I said: Do not get so upset at me just because you do not have the support from your doctrine to discredit the gospel that we embrace and teach~the fault lies in your corrupt doctrine of works in order to be accepted before God

I'm not upset with you Red, you are just another poor soul who has been snared by the doctrines of Calvin and others "disguised as Apostles of Christ". It is not me who discredits the doctrines you embrace, but the very Word's of the same God you claim to follow.

It is the Christ who said to be a "Doer" of His Word, not a hearer only. Whether or not HE physically chooses a man and forces this man to be a "Doer" of HIS sayings, based on nothing the man does, (Paul) or this same Christ makes Himself known through Paul, to a man who then turns to Him, Humbles Himself (Repents) and brings forth works meet for repentance, either way, the end result of a man whose house is built on the Rock, is a man that is a "DOER" of HIS SAYINGS. Not just a hearer.

But you are not a "doer" of His Saying Red. You preach God's Commandments are Beggarly Elements, well, only if a man strives to obey them in honor of His God, as instructed. You do not "Walk in the Statutes and Judgments of God", by your own admission.

Even Jesus said if we didn't believe in Him, believe in the "Works" that HE did. Wasn't HIS Greatest achievement "Obeying God unto death"? Without this achievement there is no unblemished Lamb, no atoning Blood, no forgiveness of sins. Are we not to "walk even as He walked"?

 So whether God "Causes" us to walk, or we humble our self and walk, either way, the man in who God places HIS Spirit, walks in HIS statutes and HIS Judgments.

Like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Zechariahs, Simeon, Peter, Stephen, Paul. To deny this is to Deny the Word's of the Christ of the Bible outright. 


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~The Spirit of the Living God will shame and expose men like you before his truth every time, before, and by those, that love and embrace the truth.You know GB, We have gone over this just a couple of weeks ago, more or less, so I truly saw no reason why to do so again. You got what I said concerning Psalm 14 about it clearly teaching total depravity of man from his mother's womb, you even acknowledge that here. Now concerning your question, it IS a self answering question~you are asking a redundant quesiton~your answer is IN the very Psalm that you reject, thinking you understand it when you do not.  When it is written: You ask: "Then who are the Generation of the Righteous, whose refuge is God that the "children of men" eat up?" God's chosen people who ONCE were among them, but the grace of God called them out of them!

So then, in your religion.

2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

But according to you this whole statement is a lie, a deception, because it is only God who gives the power to understand, to seek Him in the first place.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Of course they were Red, in your religion. If it is impossible for man to seek God, unless God specifically gives this man the desire and the power to do so, then of course only those men will seek Him and the rest will not, because they can not. So then in your religion, God punishes men for transgression of His Commandments that they are not given the capacity to obey. I outright reject this insult to the God of the Bible, and marvel that you are so free with your evil judgment of Him.

4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.

Well according to you Red, of course the workers of iniquity have no knowledge. They are "workers of Iniquity" because God made them that way. They have no knowledge because God has chosen to withhold knowledge. Not because of anything they did, but because of what Adam did.

 But those who are chosen, based on nothing they did any different than the rest of the "workers of iniquity", do have knowledge, and the desire to SEEK God, because God gave it to them.

So then, when you take all the lipstick off your religion, Those whose "Refuge is God" were placed there based on absolutely nothing they did. While the "workers of Iniquity" who didn't "SEEK" God, didn't Seek Him because God didn't choose to grant them the desire or power to seek Him, and they are gathered and dropped into the Lake of Fire.

And of course, you and Michael and Calvin are part of the lucky few who are chosen for eternal life, based on nothing you did, and nothing you can do will ever take that eternity away from you, as your beloved leader Calvin teaches.

While those who "work" to deny themselves, and humble ourselves to His Words, AS HIS WORDS INSTRUCT ALL TO DO, are lost regardless of their "voluntary humility", because in your religion, God did not draw their name out of a hat.

Psalms 14 does not support your wicked doctrines of Total Depravity Red. This is why every time you use it, you only post the first 3 verses.

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So simple that I marvel that you cannot grasp this simple teaching, that you would ask a question like you did~and you think you have the truth and others do not~amazing.

No Red, I think Every Word of God is truth, and yours are not. As Ezekiel teaches.

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Like Adam, we are all born righteous. And like Adam we have all chosen to do things we "KNEW" were wrong. If we "die" in them, we shall surely die. But if we, while we are still walking around, turn from our way, to God's way, and "turn away" from the traditions and religions we were born into, we shall live.

As it is written "Today, if you hear HIS voice, harden not your hearts". Or harden your hearts, it's your choice. You either believe Him or you don't.

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There would have NOT been a generation of righteous people apart from the mercy of God, period! Have you never read so much as this: Your religion said that YOU made yourself a believer~God's testimony said that HE MADE US, not we ourselves!

Yes Red, God "CALLS" men, and instructs them to deny themselves and follow Him, while they are yet children of disobedience, just like Abraham.

Abraham answered the call as it written; "So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him". "Many" are called, few are chosen". The implication of your false preaching, that God calls men, but only gives a few of them the power to hear and obey, is a wickedness too awful to even consider. Yet it is the very foundation of your religion..

Duet. 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

His Words (Spirit and Life) are right there, you and the rest of the world know them, you have heard them, just as the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus Time heard them. And you "MAY" keep them if you wish, God doesn't stop you from obeying HIS Words. At least the God of the Bible doesn't.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Therefore, Choose Life!!

But they (Many who come in HIS name) said "We will not walk therein". As you have clearly declared to the world.

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Not that the Christ withheld the power of them to choose His Word over the "Great Theologians" of the world, but that they chose those "other religious voices" of their own free will, as did Eve, even after He said not to.



Offline Michael2012

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Re: Forgive to Be Forgiven
« Reply #177 on: Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 02:44:01 »
And of course, you and Michael and Calvin are part of the lucky few who are chosen for eternal life, based on nothing you did, and nothing you can do will ever take that eternity away from you, as your beloved leader Calvin teaches.


Why is this lying, and misrepresentation so persistent? Do you find strength in that? Does your doctrine stand by that? God have mercy!

Go to this link GB, for I don't want to mess up this thread with an off-topic post.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/trying-the-spirits-whether-they-are-of-god~1st-john-41/msg1055159266/#msg1055159266

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Re: Forgive to Be Forgiven
« Reply #177 on: Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 02:44:01 »