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Offline leeford

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Free Grace
« on: January 01, 2009, 11:28:22 PM »
Jesus paid the price for us to be able to receive grace which means "free grace" is not free. Jesus paid the price for grace. Right?

So that would mean without being covered in the blood of Christ by receiving Him as savior a person would be punished for every sin committed.

But Jesus also changed the old covenant between man and God. So...what does that mean in terms of folks who don't accept Jesus? What law are they under? Is it different than old covenant or is it only a different covenant for those who accept Jesus?

Thoughts?

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Free Grace
« on: January 01, 2009, 11:28:22 PM »

Offline elijah_101

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 07:43:57 AM »
We know For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

For this Cause Because all Has Sinned,  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:10

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

Now, Jesus Died for Me You and the Whole World, There is No Work we can do, we cannot Forgive our Own Sins,

And by this, We Come to Jesus By Faith, And We Repent and Sin no more John 8:11 and by this we are Forgiven and we are Under Grace

(by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:5

But when you Remain in Your Sins, you are NOT under Grace, you are Still In your Sins, As it is Written Grace and Sin Does not Abound Ro 6:1

So what are you Under?

When you Sin, You are Under the Law Which is the Commandments, For this Very Reason for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners 1 Tim 1:9

The Righteous Man Keeps all Gods Commandments Words and Sayings

So there not under the Law which is the Commandments, Because it is Written in our Hearts.

Holy Ghost also is a witness to us Heb 10:15

That God Has Written them, in The Righteous man, Heart, and Put them In our Mind.

That God Did this For the Righteous

, For this Reason

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

If a man love me, he will keep my words John 14:23

My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.Luke 8:21

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.1 John 2:5-


Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7

If we are righteous as God is, We Cannot Sin...God is No Sinner

And Christ Is not the minister of sin...Gal 2:17

This is Why If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin 1 Jn 3:9 1 Jn 5:18



our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.Romans 13:11-12

In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Prov 12:28

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 07:43:57 AM »

Offline BornToReign

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 09:08:48 AM »
And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
concerning sin because they do not believe in Me,
and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me,
and concerning judgment because the ruler of this world has been judged.
John 16:8-11

"He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotton Son of God.
John 3:18

"Truly, I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemies against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" Mark 3:28-29

From the word it seems that the sin of unbelief is blaspheme, rejecting the Holy Spirit. all other sins forgiven.
"If" this is correct then I would say that unbelievers would be charged with the unforgiven sin of unbelief.





To you it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh is ha-'Elohiym; there is no other besides Him.
Out of heaven He let me hear His voice, that He might correct me. And on earth He let me see His great fire, and I heard His Word out of the midst of the fire.


Wisdom is the summit, acquire wisdom, and with all your acquisitions acquire understanding.

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 09:08:48 AM »

Offline elijah_101

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 02:16:13 PM »
The only way to Have Grace is to Repent and Sin no more, John 5:14 John 8:11

For this Very Reason, As Long as any one Remains in sin, They are not Under grace  Romans 6:1

Why

Grace and Sin Does not Abound...

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid
Romans 6:1-

The Bible Teaches to Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance
Matt 3:8

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.2 Cor 7:10

 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God
Heb 6:1

 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God
1 Cor 15:34
our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.Romans 13:11-12

In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Prov 12:28

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 02:16:13 PM »

Offline SteveA

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 06:09:44 PM »
But when you Remain in Your Sins, you are NOT under Grace, you are Still In your Sins, As it is Written Grace and Sin Does not Abound Ro 6:1

So what are you Under?


   Dear Brother,

  As being in Christ, we are no longer in our sins. You made an incorrect inference on 1Cor.15:17. When you read the context and begin with verse twelve, you'll see that Paul was dealing with some of the Corinthians who had doubt in a resurrection. And Paul quickly corrects them in their thinking by centering on the resurrection of Christ

   When we come to verse 17, the Holy Spirit's intent is for us to see the antithesis of the matter at hand. First, let me quote the verse:

   "And if Christ be not raised,your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins!"

   Let's break this down and view it antithetically:

   1) "...if Christ be not raised..." = False

        on the contrary,

        Christ is risen! = True

    2) "...your faith is vain..."= False

         on the contrary,

        Since Christ is risen, my faith in Him is not vain= True

    3) "...ye are yet in your sins."= False

         On the contrary,

         Since Christ is raised, and my faith in not vain,
         I am in Christ, therefore not in my sins!

   Brother, that is what God's Grace is all about. Salvation is never based upon any of my works or yours. And we don't stop sinning in order to keep this gift by virtue on what Christ did for us at Calvary. Free Grace is all about what Christ did, not ever what we may do after we've been delivered from the penalty of sin.

   If at any time, you, as a believer, believe that you can ever be in your original sin in Adam, then you're not looking at Christ, but rather your own self.

   Don't you know that you've been justified? And that by Grace? Not of works? Remember how Paul dealt with those foolish Galations who attempted to be justified by the works of the law? ::doh:: 

   Please don't misunderstand me concerning ungodliness:

   "For the Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men,
teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world" (Tit.2:11,12).

   Notice the subjunctive mood in the phrase "...we should live...." Paul didn't say definitively that "we will live soberly,etc., etc." No, because as believers we may walk by faith, or we may walk by the flesh. We have two natures that are at odds with each other.

    1) The Adamic nature

    2) The mind of Christ

   And the one I feed the most will be manisfested by my walk and talk. Thank God, my Father, and Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour that my salvation is never based on how little I sin, and that my past, present, and future sins have been dealt with at the Cross once and for all through the precious blood of Christ!!! That's Free Grace!!!

   In His Grace,

   SteveA






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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 06:09:44 PM »



Offline jiggyfly

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 06:55:46 PM »
Colossians 1:19-23
19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, 20 and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, 22 yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. 23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand in it firmly. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News.

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 06:55:46 PM »

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 08:31:07 PM »
Jesus paid the price for us to be able to receive grace which means "free grace" is not free. Jesus paid the price for grace. Right?

So that would mean without being covered in the blood of Christ by receiving Him as savior a person would be punished for every sin committed.

But Jesus also changed the old covenant between man and God. So...what does that mean in terms of folks who don't accept Jesus? What law are they under? Is it different than old covenant or is it only a different covenant for those who accept Jesus?

Thoughts?

You're letting covenants confuse you.
They are only tools; they are only structures placed on top of what God wants.

It matters not what covenant anyone is under; you either follow God, or you don't.
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

stuart shepherd

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 08:40:47 PM »

This is Why If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin 1 Jn 3:9 1 Jn 5:18


"""If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin"""
Does this mean that you cannot sin because God creates barriers that frustrate any attempts by you to sin?
Does this mean you no longer have free will and God controls your will?

OR

Does this mean that you cannot sin because you will completely blow your opportunity to go to Heaven if you sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New American Standard Bible)

 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Stuart Shepherd

larry2

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 05:14:54 AM »
Stuart Shepherd - """If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin"""
Does this mean that you cannot sin because God creates barriers that frustrate any attempts by you to sin?
Does this mean you no longer have free will and God controls your will?

OR

Does this mean that you cannot sin because you will completely blow your opportunity to go to Heaven if you sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New American Standard Bible)

 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


larry2 - Dear stuart shepherd, I just used this response to Grace on another thread, though modified here, so I hope I am not doing wrong repeating it as a reply to you.

1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (God's) seed remaineth (That incorruptible good seed of the word of God sown in us by the Son of man.  Mt. 13:37) in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (Our new nature of Christ can not sin in God's eyes - He only sees Christ in us)

Romans 4:7-8  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8   Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (This new eternal life we have is right now by being born of God)
 
1 John 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God (All that believe Jesus is the Christ) sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus)  keepeth himself, and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
   
In Jesus' name - larry 

 




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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 05:14:54 AM »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 07:25:47 AM »
The only way to Have Grace is to Repent and Sin no more, John 5:14 John 8:11

For this Very Reason, As Long as any one Remains in sin, They are not Under grace  Romans 6:1

Why

Grace and Sin Does not Abound...

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid
Romans 6:1-

The Bible Teaches to Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance
Matt 3:8

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.2 Cor 7:10

 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God
Heb 6:1

 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God
1 Cor 15:34


 ::amen::
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 07:25:47 AM »

Offline Harold

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 09:45:49 AM »
Grace = Kindness, Because of God's great love for us, He showed us His kindness by coming in the Flesh to die for us.

Jesus is God's Grace.

It cost God, not us, to purchase us from the world.

You can't purchase grace you can only receive it. That is why it is called a gift, a free gift.

FTL
Rom 1:17  For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." (NIV)

I neither agree nor disagree with any thing posted on the board, I am interjecting thoughts not my beliefs, unless so stated.

stuart shepherd

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 12:02:28 PM »
Stuart Shepherd - """If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin"""
Does this mean that you cannot sin because God creates barriers that frustrate any attempts by you to sin?
Does this mean you no longer have free will and God controls your will?

OR

Does this mean that you cannot sin because you will completely blow your opportunity to go to Heaven if you sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New American Standard Bible)

 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


larry2 - Dear stuart shepherd, I just used this response to Grace on another thread, though modified here, so I hope I am not doing wrong repeating it as a reply to you.

1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (God's) seed remaineth (That incorruptible good seed of the word of God sown in us by the Son of man.  Mt. 13:37) in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (Our new nature of Christ can not sin in God's eyes - He only sees Christ in us)

Romans 4:7-8  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8   Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (This new eternal life we have is right now by being born of God)
 
1 John 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God (All that believe Jesus is the Christ) sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus)  keepeth himself, and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
   
In Jesus' name - larry 



Dear Larry,
Does what you wrote mean that a Christian cannot sin because even if he does sin, then the sin doesn't count?
""Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.""

What a system!

Stuart Shepherd

larry2

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 02:20:14 PM »
Stuart Shepherd -
Dear Larry,
Does what you wrote mean that a Christian cannot sin because even if he does sin, then the sin doesn't count?
""Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.""

What a system!

larry -
Dear Stuart, yes I am still amazed that Jesus died for us and provided our justification in the same manner God imputed righteousness to Abraham. Do we add to the sacrifice made for us by our works? I wrote scripture that can stand in the face of criticism concerning our salvation, but there is consequence for sin; altogether another subject.

You use Hebrews 6:4-6 pasted below to dispute the idea of grace as I see it, and I will add Hebrews 10:26 to seal that thought.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You state "What a system" concerning grace if I'm reading you correctly, and as we see that if we fall away, and I would assume you are talking about sin after becoming saved, I then add to that thought with Hebrews 10:26 of willful sin which would certainly be associated with falling away. If you choose to use these scriptures as pertaining to a Christian, even the slightest sin of speeding up to beat a red light condemns you to hell because you willfully sinned and cannot be renewed to repentance. Wow!

Thankful that I'm saved by grace through faith in Jesus' name - larry2
   

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2009, 05:49:06 AM »
Stuart Shepherd - """If you are Born Of God, You CANNOT Sin"""
Does this mean that you cannot sin because God creates barriers that frustrate any attempts by you to sin?
Does this mean you no longer have free will and God controls your will?

OR

Does this mean that you cannot sin because you will completely blow your opportunity to go to Heaven if you sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New American Standard Bible)

 4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


larry2 - Dear stuart shepherd, I just used this response to Grace on another thread, though modified here, so I hope I am not doing wrong repeating it as a reply to you.

1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (God's) seed remaineth (That incorruptible good seed of the word of God sown in us by the Son of man.  Mt. 13:37) in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (Our new nature of Christ can not sin in God's eyes - He only sees Christ in us)

Romans 4:7-8  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8   Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
1 John 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (This new eternal life we have is right now by being born of God)
 
1 John 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God (All that believe Jesus is the Christ) sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus)  keepeth himself, and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
   
In Jesus' name - larry 



Dear Larry,
Does what you wrote mean that a Christian cannot sin because even if he does sin, then the sin doesn't count?
""Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.""

What a system!

Stuart Shepherd



You sound so thrilled about the thought of sinning.  Do you love sin?   ::doh::
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

larry2

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Re: Free Grace
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2009, 06:40:53 AM »
Bonnie - You sound so thrilled about the thought of sinning.  Do you love sin?   

larry - No I do not love sin Bonnie, and am very surprised that a perfect law keeper like yourself would take scripture I've posted and come to that conclusion. I know what I'm capable of, and am thankful of God's word showing that He died for me.

Have you ever done anything for conscience sake? Did you do that to keep from going to hell? If you're in that situation of doing and don'ting to keep your salvation I am truly sorry for you. Have you ever done one thing willfully wrong since becoming a Christian; even not loving your neighbor as yourself 100 % of the time? Have you ever been angered at someone? You haven't told one fib, and remember you're under oath to God. Remember the law keeper's seeming motto: Hebrews 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. According to some, that condemns a Christian at the first sin, and no, I do not believe that.

If you pass all these tests, plus all the law, you're wonderful, or truthfully do not know the reach of the law; is it possible you never have to go to God in prayer because of your inherent goodness? When scripture without assumption bothers you about God's wonderful grace toward us that I've listed?

And then, Romans 14:4  Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
 
Dear Bonnie, I truthfully respect your stand for the things of God, and am only attempting to defend scripture. If you even go to the extent of keeping days, or not eating certain things for God, I have no ill will toward you. We read in Romans 14:3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
 
God bless you Bonnie in Jesus' name - larry2