Author Topic: “Gathered To His People”  (Read 1739 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #70 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 04:16:32 »
If you yourself don’t have “the slightest inkling” of what a “spiritual body” is, 4WD, that’s your problem.  Scripture does not leave us in total ignorance of the subject.  The example of the spiritual body of the RESURRECTED, GLORIFIED CHRIST, displayed for 40 days to witnesses chosen beforehand is proof of what we all will finally inherit, since we are called “joint-heirs” with Christ in Romans 8:17.  What part of “joint-heirs” do you not understand?
Good morning my brother~I believe we all have a very, very small inkling of what a spiritual body we shall inherit after death, but will be fully realized and enjoyed after the resurrection of the last day. I say that based on these scriptures:
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 5:1-9~"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him."
I may be missing a truth here, but do not believe so~at death we are CLOTHED with our house/building of God, a house not made with hands that is ETERNAL in heaven after death, but will not be fully realized and enjoyed until after the resurrection. Where did Moses and Elijah get those bodies that appear with Christ on the mount? They received them AT DEATH!

Like any other doctrines in the scriptures I know we all stand to be corrected~yet pray tell me how should we understand 2nd Corinthians 5:1-9?  Anyone?

Said that to ask you my brother please explain to me what you think is a spiritual body that all saints will receive~if you have already then just give me the reply post so I can read it.

I meant this to be to  4WD~sorry 3 Resurrections. I hit the wrong reply post, but now you know, it should work itself out.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 04:30:47 by RB »

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #70 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 04:16:32 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #71 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 05:43:43 »
I meant this to be to  4WD~sorry 3 Resurrections. I hit the wrong reply post, but now you know, it should work itself out.

Said that to ask you my brother please explain to me what you think is a spiritual body that all saints will receive~if you have already then just give me the reply post so I can read it.
I already answered this, sort of but not directly.  My answer is found in my response to Johntwayne; or more specifically it is found in 1Jn 3:2  Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. My answer to your question is that I do not know what a spiritual body is.  That has been my point all along.  I do not know and no one else does either.  Even the Apostle John didn't know.  He said, "what we will be has not yet appeared". He also said that "we shall see Him like He IS and we shall be like that".  Thus like He is could not be as He was when He came out of the tomb, because John had seen Jesus as He was on several occasions after He was raised from the dead.

I won't get into an exposition of 2 Corinthians 5:1-9 because I don't think that it really answers the question this thread has raised.  I would comment that like all references to heaven, there is a good bit of the figurative in that passage.  I would ask one question that strikes me from that passage.  If heaven and we in heaven are all that it is said to be, namely, without sorrow, without wants, without sin, etc., then what is wrong with being naked?  My answer to that is that it is not talking about bodily physical nakedness.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #72 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 06:52:29 »
4WD, if you are depending on that single phrase “it hath not yet appeared what we shall be” in I John 3:2 to prove your view of no bodily resurrection, that is a typical Full Preterist tactic.  That phrase can be interpreted a couple of ways, so it is not a good idea for either side to use it as a proof text.

You want it to say that we have no example given us of a bodily resurrection that has appeared for our evaluation - not even that of Christ’s that we can examine.

When I read that phrase, it merely says to me that, at the time John wrote it, the bodily resurrection gloriously manifesting the Sons of God in their bodily-resurrected state had not yet happened for the saints.  They had not yet “appeared” or had not yet been “manifested” in those bodily-resurrected forms, even though Christ had already done so. 

Of course, both of these views taken from the passage reflect each of our own prior convictions about this subject.  So when the interpretation can understandably be interpreted BOTH ways, it is best to look elsewhere for a solid proof text. 

That’s why I am trying to get an answer from you about what you think the “EARNEST of the Spirit” is - the “arrabon” down-payment security of a FUTURE fulfillment hope that the saints presently have in this life.  What is that FUTURE hope, if (as you agree) we already presently have eternal life of our spirit?  That FUTURE expectation can’t be of a spiritual being; it would have to be “the redemption of our BODY” we are waiting for, as the context of Romans 8:23 specifies.  This IS a proof text (though you would probably protest that it isn’t).


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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #72 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 06:52:29 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #73 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 07:55:39 »
3 Res, that was funny.  You state that the phrase in 1 John 3:2 can't be used as a proof text because it can be interpreted in a couple of ways; then you proceed to say that the phrase in Romans 8:23 (which can also be interpreted in a couple of ways) is a proof text.  You can see that for yourself by simply looking at a few credible commentaries.

The problem I have with you is that so much of what you post is clearly wrapped so tightly around your preterist thinking, which I consider to be an absolute abomination, it is difficult to even know where to start.  Therefore I will simply refer you to 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul says, "... someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?"  You foolish person!"  You can take it from there and answer those two questions for yourself as you please.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #73 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 07:55:39 »
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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #74 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 09:26:46 »
4WD, I’m trying to stay respectful, since you are my senior in years, but I’ve got to agree with Elihu that “great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgment.”

You are being totally contradictory.  To state that all Preterist thinking in your opinion is “an absolute abomination” and then to fervently defend one of the core Full-Preterist positions that teaches no bodily resurrection of the saints is, well, a rather schizophrenic way to act.  Don Preston, as one of the “grandfathers” of the modern-day Full Preterist camp, teaches on his website EXACTLY what you are saying about the body of the risen and ascended Christ; that it dissolved into extinction, and that Jesus currently exists in Spirit mode only.

Can you please concentrate on that one, single question I have asked you twice already: What is the FUTURE promise given to the saints that is called “the EARNEST of the Spirit”?  In Greek, this “arrabon” of the Spirit is a DOWN-PAYMENT: a security deposit in advance of the future full payment of that promise.  If the saints ALREADY HAVE eternal life of the spirit in this life before our physical death (to which you agree), what else is promised to us in the future after our physical death, beyond the reality of the redeemed spirit which we already possess?  It would then have to be “the redemption of our BODY” (Rom. 8:23), changed into an incorruptible and immortal state.

If you aren’t comfortable answering this question, then just say so, because it looks as if you are avoiding it.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #74 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 09:26:46 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #75 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 10:53:59 »
I am assuming that by the phrase "earnest of the Spirit" you are referring to 2 Corinthians 1:22 in the KJV.  I suppose there might be some question about the meaning there.  But if you would go to another translation, such as the ESV, then there seems to be little concern as to the meaning.

(ESV)  and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

(NASB)  who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

(NIV)  set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

(NKJV)  who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.


In all of those the meaning clearly seems to be simply the indwelling Holy Spirit. Of what is it a pledge, or a guarantee?  Paul said, in Ephesians,  In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (1:13-14). You can make of that what you will.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 10:57:27 by 4WD »

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #75 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 10:53:59 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #76 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 11:20:33 »
I am assuming that by the phrase "earnest of the Spirit" you are referring to 2 Corinthians 1:22 in the KJV.  I suppose there might be some question about the meaning there.  But if you would go to another translation, such as the ESV, then there seems to be little concern as to the meaning.

(ESV)  and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

(NASB)  who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

(NIV)  set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

(NKJV)  who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.


In all of those the meaning clearly seems to be simply the indwelling Holy Spirit. Of what is it a pledge, or a guarantee?  Paul said, in Ephesians,  In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (1:13-14). You can make of that what you will.
Anyone with dealings in real estate can tell you what an earnest is - it's a non-refundable deposit you put down towards a purchase.  If you back out of the transaction, you forfeit the earnest.

I think you're right that the "earnest" in this passage IS God's Spirit.  This is actually explicit in a different passage:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1)

So then, at the point a man is regenerated, God puts a deposit down on the eventual redemption price.  That deposit is His Spirit.

Logically then, the "purchased possession" shall be similar in character.  If the down payment is His Spirit in this body, the balance of the principal is that we shall receive a new body.  Observe:

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. (2Cor 5)

Jarrod




Offline 4WD

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #77 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 15:34:22 »
Anyone with dealings in real estate can tell you what an earnest is - it's a non-refundable deposit you put down towards a purchase.  If you back out of the transaction, you forfeit the earnest.

I think you're right that the "earnest" in this passage IS God's Spirit.  This is actually explicit in a different passage:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1)
Thanks for that, but I am not sure what you are getting at.  That is the verse I posted--Just the ESV rather than the KJV. Did you miss that?

So then, at the point a man is regenerated, God puts a deposit down on the eventual redemption price.  That deposit is His Spirit.

Logically then, the "purchased possession" shall be similar in character.  If the down payment is His Spirit in this body, the balance of the principal is that we shall receive a new body.  Observe:

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. (2Cor 5)
I have never denied that we will receive a new body; only that body according to 1 Corinthians 15 is a spiritual rather than a natural, or physical, body.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #78 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 19:59:35 »
A spiritual body is still a certain type of body form  (a “soma”) - not a spirit. 

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #78 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 19:59:35 »

Offline Reformer

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #79 on: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 21:42:17 »
3 Resurrections:

   "A spiritual body is still a certain type of body form  (a 'soma') - not a spirit."

    True, not just a spirit. A spiritual body is non-physical, non-carnal, and non-sensual. A spiritual body is a transformed glorified body, "like our Lord's glorious body" [Phil. 3:20]. It is celestial as opposed to terrestrial

Buff
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 15, 2021 - 21:45:59 by Reformer »

Offline 4WD

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #80 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 05:10:02 »
A spiritual body is still a certain type of body form  (a “soma”) - not a spirit.
You do not know what a spiritual body is. In Genesis 1:4, and elsewhere, we read "God saw....".  Does that mean that God has eyes?  When we read "God said...", does that mean that God has a mouth, lips, tongue, to speak with.  When we read "the hand of God...", does that mean that God has hands as a human being has?  When we read "...the right hand of God...", does that mean that God has a right hand?  When we read "...Christ is seated at the right hand of God...", does that mean there is physically a seat to sit on and Christ is sitting on an actual seat?  When we read :...throne of God...", does that mean there is an actual physical throne?  The answer to all of those is, "No, of course not." When we read "...spiritual body...", does that mean that there is a physical entity called a spiritual body?  The answer is, "No, of course not".

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #81 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 08:11:15 »
4WD, you are using the typical Full-Preterist line of reasoning.  Not EVERYTHING is a metaphor.  That is a “true tabernacle” in heaven now, “which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Heb. 8:1-3)..   Jesus the “MAN” is sitting there presently as our high priest on that literal seat, sprinkled with His own literal blood offering.  You NEED Him there, 4WD, or none of your prayers stand a chance of being heard without Jesus serving as your human /divine high priest advocate as He continually represents the saints.

An actual visible “ark of the testimony” is present in heaven today, since John said it was seen at the time the dead were to be judged, and that temple was opened for the first group of resurrected mankind to enter it (Rev. 11:19 cp. Rev. 15:8). 

The newly-resurrected Jesus entered that heavenly temple as the “First-begotten” on the morning after His resurrection, when He told Mary where He was going (John 20:17).  As the “First-born” bodily-resurrected, glorified human form to stand before the Father’s presence in heaven, He opened up the “matrix” for the rest of His brethren to similarly follow later on.  Shortly after God ordained Him then as our high priest, that same bodily-resurrected Jesus returned from heaven back to earth.  He was still using the same recognizable body that He asked the disciples to handle and touch, and who ate fish and honeycomb (Luke 24:42-43), and who ate and drank with them (Acts 10:41).

You’re persistent, 4WD, but this aspect of the Sadducee doctrine (and of Full-Preterism) that you keep repeating doesn’t stand up to inspection from scripture. 

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #82 on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 10:35:43 »
4WD, you are using the typical Full-Preterist line of reasoning.  Not EVERYTHING is a metaphor.  That is a “true tabernacle” in heaven now, “which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Heb. 8:1-3)..   Jesus the “MAN” is sitting there presently as our high priest on that literal seat, sprinkled with His own literal blood offering.  You NEED Him there, 4WD, or none of your prayers stand a chance of being heard without Jesus serving as your human /divine high priest advocate as He continually represents the saints.

An actual visible “ark of the testimony” is present in heaven today, since John said it was seen at the time the dead were to be judged, and that temple was opened for the first group of resurrected mankind to enter it (Rev. 11:19 cp. Rev. 15:8). 

The newly-resurrected Jesus entered that heavenly temple as the “First-begotten” on the morning after His resurrection, when He told Mary where He was going (John 20:17).  As the “First-born” bodily-resurrected, glorified human form to stand before the Father’s presence in heaven, He opened up the “matrix” for the rest of His brethren to similarly follow later on.  Shortly after God ordained Him then as our high priest, that same bodily-resurrected Jesus returned from heaven back to earth.  He was still using the same recognizable body that He asked the disciples to handle and touch, and who ate fish and honeycomb (Luke 24:42-43), and who ate and drank with them (Acts 10:41).

You’re persistent, 4WD, but this aspect of the Sadducee doctrine (and of Full-Preterism) that you keep repeating doesn’t stand up to inspection from scripture.
You just get sillier and sillier, 3 Res.  Even your handle here, i.e., 3 Resurrections, tells me that you really don't know much, biblically speaking.  But whatever, 2 Res.  You go ahead and believe what you want.

I will make one comment here.
He was still using the same recognizable body that He asked the disciples to handle and touch, and who ate fish and honeycomb (Luke 24:42-43), and who ate and drank with them (Acts 10:41).
Yes, of course.  As I have said all along.  That was simply Jesus' own natural, physical, body brought back to life with His wounds being appropriately healed.  There is nothing in the Bible that speaks of that being a spiritual body.  That is just another of your eisegetical mistakes.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #83 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 04:39:17 »
Quote
1st Kings 9:4,5~ And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments: Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel."
I ask this question: Is there A MAN now on the throne of David reigning over the seed of Jacob? Absolutely there is A MAN, the man Christ Jesus! Who walked before His Father to do ALL that His Father commanded him, and kept PERFECTLY his commandments, thereby, God has given him a name above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 04:44:43 by RB »

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #84 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 05:41:00 »
1Ki 9:6  "But if you or your sons indeed turn away from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods and worship them,
1Ki 9:7  then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them, and the house which I have consecrated for My name, I will cast out of My sight. So Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples.
1Ki 9:8  "And this house will become a heap of ruins; everyone who passes by will be astonished and hiss and say, 'Why has the LORD done thus to this land and to this house?'


I think that 1 Kings 9 is clearly about the nation Israel, not spiritual Israel.  Chapter 9 speaks of the conclusion of Solomon's building program and warns, i.e., prophesies, against apostacy.  The prophecy certainly was fulfilled with the destruction of Solomon's temple and the subsequent captivity of both the northern and southern kingdoms.  To read into verse 5 that Jesus, in his glory at the right hand of God, the Father, is still in the form of a human being would be a serious mistake.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #85 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 06:44:41 »
I think that 1 Kings 9 is clearly about the nation Israel, not spiritual Israel.  Chapter 9 speaks of the conclusion of Solomon's building program and warns, i.e., prophesies, against apostacy.  The prophecy certainly was fulfilled with the destruction of Solomon's temple and the subsequent captivity of both the northern and southern kingdoms.  To read into verse 5 that Jesus, in his glory at the right hand of God, the Father, is still in the form of a human being would be a serious mistake.
You can limit 1st Kings 9 to natural Israel if you need to, but you are closing your eyes to a blessed truth.

2nd Kings 9 goes perfectly with 2nd Samuel 7 and Psalm 132:11,12~ with the latter two references giving us light on 2nd Kings 9. 
Quote
Psalms 132:11,12~The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."
The whole Psalm is speaking of David's son that shall come from his seed. Truly, one needs to read the whole Psalm to appreciate the blessed truths therein.
Quote
2nd Samuel 7:12,13~"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
Again, one must read the whole chapter of 2nd Samuel 7 to appreciate the contents and its truths.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 06:51:26 by RB »

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #86 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 07:11:58 »
You can limit 1st Kings 9 to natural Israel if you need to, but you are closing your eyes to a blessed truth.
No, RB.  You are trying to legitimize your thinking with an incorrectly attributed Scripture.  What I mean by that is that what you think about the state of Jesus' present existence may be true, but even if it is true, the verse you are using doesn't confirm it or doesn't support it.  We all tend to do that far too much.  What that actually ends up doing is lending doubt to the proposition being put forth, which is just the opposite of what was intended.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #87 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 15:56:24 »
If Philippians 3:21 says that the Lord Jesus Christ “...shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body...”, it would only make sense to search scripture to find out just WHEN Christ’s body was glorified, so that we can know what kind of change our own natural body will go through when it is resurrected.

We are told exactly when Christ’s body was glorified, by comparing two verses: John 7:39 and John 20:22.

On the last day of the feast, Jesus spoke to the people about the Spirit, comparing it to “living water” which would flow from the believers.  “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that JESUS WAS NOT YET GLORIFIED.”

Clearly, the timing of JESUS BEING GLORIFIED was going to PRECEDE when the believers would receive the Holy Spirit.  And we have it recorded when they did receive the Spirit in John 20:22.   It was on the first day of the week, the evening after Jesus had first ascended to the Father that morning to be ordained as our high priest in heaven. 

Jesus met with the disciples that evening and showed them His hands, feet and side in a body He said was of flesh and bones that they could handle and touch.  “Then said Jesus unto them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, RECEIVE YE THE HOLY GHOST:”

Clearly, then, according to John 7:39, this receiving of the Holy Ghost by the disciples at this time MUST have followed when Jesus had already been glorified.  At this point, we can say that this glorified body of Christ presented to the disciples that evening is what our vile bodies are going to be changed into.  We will be “fashioned like unto His glorious body”, in every detail which was on display for the disciples inspection back then on that first day of the week.

This “glorified body” IS the type of “spiritual body” which we will have as our incorruptible resurrected forms. 

Even on the road to Emmaus on that same first day of the week, Christ proved that He was then presently in His glorified body when He told those two travelers. “ O fools and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and TO ENTER HIS GLORY?”  Here, Jesus was speaking of His crucifixion and glorification as PAST ACCOMPLISHED EVENTS at that point. 

I Peter 1:21 says the same thing.  “Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead and GAVE HIM GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in God.”  Jesus’s resurrection and the glorification of that body in the tomb were linked together in time as simultaneous events.


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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #88 on: Mon Jan 18, 2021 - 03:47:08 »
I Peter 1:21 says the same thing.  “Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead and GAVE HIM GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in God.”  Jesus’s resurrection and the glorification of that body in the tomb were linked together in time as simultaneous events.
I agree with all that you posted in this post and will add support to your last quote:
Quote
John 20:1-9~"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead."
He was glorified at his resurrection.
Quote from:  3 Resurrections on: Yesterday at 15:56:24
This “glorified body” IS the type of “spiritual body” which we will have as our incorruptible resurrected forms
Agreed.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #89 on: Mon Jan 18, 2021 - 05:53:26 »
We are told exactly when Christ’s body was glorified, by comparing two verses: John 7:39 and John 20:22.
You have made the assumption that John 20:22 is the occasion when they actually received the Holy Spirit.  But that is heavily debated; many think that it was a pledge of what they were to receive on Pentecost.  And in Acts 1:8 we have confirmation that it was really not until Pentecost when they actually received the Holy Spirit. And that was clearly after His ascension.

Moreover, in John 17:5, Jesus' own prayer says that it is in His being ascended into heaven and He is once again in the presence of God, the Father, that He will be glorified. "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."

That is certainly consistent with other passages; consider   Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory (1Ti 3:16).

Consider alsothe God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,..... according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. (Eph 1: 17-20)

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #90 on: Mon Jan 18, 2021 - 07:58:33 »
4WD, did you catch the contradiction in what you just wrote with what you said before?

About the disciples receiving the Spirit on that first day of the week, you just said, “...many think that it was a PLEDGE of what they were to receive on Pentecost.”

Well, what did you just write above in your reply #75 about what a PLEDGE is (the “EARNEST of the Spirit)?

About those verses you listed speaking of the “EARNEST of the Spirit”, you wrote, “In all of those the meaning clearly seems to be simply the indwelling Holy Spirit.”

EXACTLY.  The disciples on the first day of the week that evening were ALREADY given the “EARNEST” or “pledge” of the “indwelling Holy Spirit” BEFORE Pentecost, which indwelling Spirit was openly manifested to all the people in the Temple on Pentecost Day by the use of different languages. 

I still maintain that their receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit that first day of the week had to be PRECEDED by Christ having a GLORIFIED BODY, as John 7:39 tells us in no uncertain terms.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #91 on: Mon Jan 18, 2021 - 09:08:48 »
Clearly you do not understand what a contradiction is.  The statement "the sky is red" is not a contradiction of the statement "the sky is blue".  I will leave you to figure out why that is.

I will help you out a little; Genesis 7:2 and Genesis 7:8-9 are not contradictory.

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Re: “Gathered To His People”
« Reply #92 on: Mon Jan 18, 2021 - 09:13:08 »
.....which indwelling Spirit was openly manifested to all the people in the Temple on Pentecost Day by the use of different languages. 
And that is wrong also.  But it seems that you do not and likely would not understand.

 

     
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