Author Topic: Gender of the "Word" for Ed  (Read 1527 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

edpobre

  • Guest
Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 15:15:11 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (BValentine @ April 11 2003,10:28)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][/quote]
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Ed wrote on the \"Jesus and Athanasius\" thread on April 11, 2003 at 6:29:

\"The FACT that the KJV renders John 1:1 DIFFERENTLY from the TEV is PROOF that BOTH versions CANNOT be accurate transalations. First, the \"Word of God\" has NO gender. Second, the way John 1:1 is rendered by the KJV follows the manner in which the first chapter of Genesis was written. Third, John 1:1 can also describe God's \"logos\" or WISDOM manifest in the CREATION of the world when God's WORD created the world.\"


Now I do not wish to belabor this point to much because every person on this board who has been following this discussion knows that I have already answered this question in the \"Why Jesus thought the Word was a 'He'\" thread.  But Ed, keeps repeating this stuff.

He assersts, \"First the Word of God has no gender.\"  That is false.  The Greek word \"logos\" is a Second Declension MASCULINE noun.  In John 1.1 it also happens to be in the Nominative and in the Singular.

I also pointed out that the SAME author of John 1.1. explicitly uses the same term (\"logos\") to identify Jesus in 1 John 1.1 and again in Revelation 19.13.

Jesus is the Logos and the Logos IS Jesus.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI[/quote]

Bobby,

As I earlier said, Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines \"logos\" as \"the divine (proceeding from God) WISDOM manifest in the creation, government and REDEMPTION of the world.\"

I don't know how you got this Trinity-biased idea that the Greek word \"logos\" is a Second Declension MASCULINE noun but the same dictionary I used does NOT make any mention of this.

The Bible does NOT teach that Jesus is the \"logos\" of God. But it teaches that Jesus is the MANIFESTATION of God's WISDOM concerning the REDEMPTION of the world.

\"In all His WISDOM and insight, God God DID what He had purposed, and made known to us the secret PLAN he HAD already decided to complete by means of Christ. This PLAN which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring ALL creation together, everything in  heaven and earth, with Christ as Head.

ALL things are DONE according to God's PLAN and decision; and God chose us to be His own people IN UNION with Christ BECAUSE of His own purpose, based on what He HAD decided from the very beginning\" (Eph. 1:8b-11 TEV).


This is God's \"logos\" or PLAN, Bobby. And when the right time finally came, God SENT His own Son...to REDEEM those who are under the law, so that we might BECOME God's Sons (Gal. 4:4-5 Ibid.).

And CONTRARY to your statement that the term \"logos\" is used to identify Jesus in 1 John 1:1, the verse is about God's WISDOM concerning ETERNAL LIFE (\"concerning the  Word of life\") which was MANIFESTED to us in Christ.

Ed

Christian Forums and Message Board

Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 15:15:11 »

edpobre

  • Guest
Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #1 on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 18:07:48 »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Bobby Valentine @ April 12 2003,5:12)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][/quote]
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Ed, this makes no sense.  How do you expect to define a Greek word by Webster's dictionary?  How about this get a GREEK dictionary and look up \"Logos.\"  Every Greek noun has these things:

Declension (there are three declensions)
Gender (masculine, feminine, neuter)
Number
Case

\"Logos\" happens to be a 2nd Declension Masculine Noun that singular (and nominative in John 1.1).  

Now should you look in a GREEK dictionary you will find what I have just said confirmed (see Baur, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature, pp.598-601.  Esp. relevant to our discussion is subheading #3, p. 601).

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI[/quote]

Bobby,

That's like telling me to read the Atanasius Creed then conclude that there really is a Trinity!

Ed

Offline BValentine

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Manna: 41
Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #2 on: Fri Apr 11, 2003 - 10:28:10 »
Ed wrote on the \"Jesus and Athanasius\" thread on April 11, 2003 at 6:29:

\"The FACT that the KJV renders John 1:1 DIFFERENTLY from the TEV is PROOF that BOTH versions CANNOT be accurate transalations. First, the \"Word of God\" has NO gender. Second, the way John 1:1 is rendered by the KJV follows the manner in which the first chapter of Genesis was written. Third, John 1:1 can also describe God's \"logos\" or WISDOM manifest in the CREATION of the world when God's WORD created the world.\"


Now I do not wish to belabor this point to much because every person on this board who has been following this discussion knows that I have already answered this question in the \"Why Jesus thought the Word was a 'He'\" thread.  But Ed, keeps repeating this stuff.

He assersts, \"First the Word of God has no gender.\"  That is false.  The Greek word \"logos\" is a Second Declension MASCULINE noun.  In John 1.1 it also happens to be in the Nominative and in the Singular.

I also pointed out that the SAME author of John 1.1. explicitly uses the same term (\"logos\") to identify Jesus in 1 John 1.1 and again in Revelation 19.13.

Jesus is the Logos and the Logos IS Jesus.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

Christian Forums and Message Board

Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #2 on: Fri Apr 11, 2003 - 10:28:10 »

Offline Bobby Valentine

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
  • Manna: 0
Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #3 on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 17:12:26 »
Ed, this makes no sense.  How do you expect to define a Greek word by Webster's dictionary?  How about this get a GREEK dictionary and look up \"Logos.\"  Every Greek noun has these things:

Declension (there are three declensions)
Gender (masculine, feminine, neuter)
Number
Case

\"Logos\" happens to be a 2nd Declension Masculine Noun that singular (and nominative in John 1.1).  

Now should you look in a GREEK dictionary you will find what I have just said confirmed (see Baur, Arndt, Gingrich and Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature, pp.598-601.  Esp. relevant to our discussion is subheading #3, p. 601).

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

Christian Forums and Message Board

Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #3 on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 17:12:26 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Bobby Valentine

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
  • Manna: 0
Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #4 on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 19:59:07 »
Ed, that is quite illogical.  Telling you to get a Greek dictionary to look up Greek words -- Oh I am so trying to mislead you!  That does not compute!  :computertrouble:  

I have come to the sad conclusion that further discussion with you on these matters is unprofitable simply because you do not deal with any information presented to you.  I find your complete disregard for the standards of language, respecting the Greek or Hebrew God wrote the Bible in, the complete invention of standards of argument to be completly irresponsible.

Should you wish to seriously engage in discussion of what the Bible actually says I am right here waiting.

Shalom,
Bobby Valentine
Milwaukee, WI

Christian Forums and Message Board

Gender of the "Word" for Ed
« Reply #4 on: Sat Apr 12, 2003 - 19:59:07 »



 

     
anything