Author Topic: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!  (Read 1494 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #35 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:24:57 »
RB, you said:" I will never give in to your spirit that refuses to live by every word of God."

There is only one word of God that we should live by, and that is "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." "All the law is fulfilled even in this."
However, instead of obeying the Law of reciprocity, the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day would rather believe that their theology would save them. And as we know, it did not. Because of the Law of reciprocity, they reaped what they sowed.
Living by the word of God is MUCH MORE than Matthew 7:12.  The Lord, in delivering a perfect rule of righteousness, has reduced it in all its parts Both toward MAN and toward HIM, to his mere will, and in this way has shown that there is nothing more acceptable to him than obedience.

The first part of God's law which is summed up into Ten Commandments is our duty toward HIM, the last part is our duty toward man, to which you allured to above~Yet, Keeping the word of God also includes TEACHING the truth about God and not being ashamed of any truth revealed in his word, but speak it faithfully and insincerity. Many can convince themselves that they do, but based on the scriptures, we know otherwise~we, meaning ALL OF US, who in some measure more or less having given ourselves over in seeking his truth.
Quote from: THE SPIRIT OF GOD
Revelation 2:13-15~"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate."
The law of God has TWO parts, not one~love to man and love to God~and actually they cannot be broken but are fulfilled equally by fulfilling ALL of them. In other words, if you truly love man, then one would be faithfully in teaching him the TRUTH regardless if it is acceptable and approved by man! And MOST of the word of God IS NOT in our day. Selah.
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:27:45 by RB »

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #35 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:24:57 »

Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #36 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:33:41 »
WS your mind is like Star Trek to me. Could you please explain what you said. I can’t get my head around it.
LOL~that's funny, and I'm sure you did not mean to be. Mark, some people love Star Trek, maybe you need them to interpret it.  ::smile::
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:41:57 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #37 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:40:44 »
Rella, you mention in your post the importance of genealogy. If you believe, as many do, that we all came from Adam and Eve, then all of mankind would trace back to them eventually. In other words, all mankind would be the "seed" of  the woman Eve. But, Scripture says that "Eve is the mother of all those who live." From what I understand, the "seed" is the word of God( the Golden Rule) which was what Jesus was teaching. It is the word of the Spirit that gives life to all who obey. This word came from Adam and Eve who handed them down to their children
You see, here's a perfect example of what I said in my post to you above~Your teaching is so far outside of the scriptures, that your love for man CANNOT be scriptural! False prophets have no true love for their fellowmen, IMPOSSIBLE~UNLESS, they are a regenerate child of God IN ERROR, that's the only exception!

Since you directed this to Rella, I will allow her to address this strange teaching.

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #37 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 04:40:44 »

Offline Rella

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #38 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 08:18:34 »
Rella, you mention in your post the importance of genealogy. If you believe, as many do, that we all came from Adam and Eve, then all of mankind would trace back to them eventually. In other words, all mankind would be the "seed" of  the woman Eve. But, Scripture says that "Eve is the mother of all those who live." From what I understand, the "seed" is the word of God( the Golden Rule) which was what Jesus was teaching. It is the word of the Spirit that gives life to all who obey. This word came from Adam and Eve who handed them down to their children.

Hi bel,

I am not sure I fully understand your question.

I would first have to ask you if you do not believe we all came from Adam and Eve, how would that even be possible?

As my thoughts run...

If you believe that God formed Adam from the earth of the ground and then made Eve from one of Adams ribs (or even if you are among those who do not accept this idea of how they came into being) then all future human life would have had its beginning there.

After the flood, ( and if you are among those who do not believe in the flood ) I will amend this to say after Noah, Shem, Ham Japheth and their wives left the ark they proceeded to populate the world again.

If the entire ark and world wide  flood story is a myth inspired by God to be placed in His Holy Words....  (perhaps for a good bedtime story?) in any event, yes, those people who begat , and begat and are still begatting to this very day down through the centuries are descended from Adam as there was no other human being around until Eve, and then their children.

(This is no place or forum for you if you believe Adam was not the first man, as others do, so we will continue with this idea that mankind as accepted all these generations)

The inportance of genealogy

See Genesis 5

There are 10 generations for Noah to Adam. Just about 1100 years.

Genesis 5 starts out with

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

Inspired words from God to the author.

WHY?

Because it was important.

Mathew 1 tells us Jesus' lineage.... by way of Joseph. As Joseph was not Jesus' biological father is this in error?  No.

Mathew 1 starts out with

1.The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

and vs 16

 16And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.

Even in Luke we have the following ( see this chart for clarity)

Genealogy-of-Jesus" border="0

And it seemingly points to Joseph as being the link to David... even not being a blood relative.....

And interesting reading from scripture is in Jerimiah 22: 24-30

24 “As I live,” says the Lord, “though [a]Coniah the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, were the signet on My right hand, yet I would pluck you off;

25 and I will give you into the hand of those who seek your life, and into the hand of those whose face you fear—the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and the hand of the [c]Chaldeans.

26 So I will cast you out, and your mother who bore you, into another country where you were not born; and there you shall die.

27 But to the land to which they desire to return, there they shall not return.

28 “Is this man [d]Coniah a despised, broken idol—
A vessel in which is no pleasure?
Why are they cast out, he and his descendants,
And cast into a land which they do not know?

29 O earth, earth, earth,
Hear the word of the Lord!

30 Thus says the Lord:
‘Write this man down as childless,
A man who shall not prosper in his days;
For none of his descendants shall prosper,
Sitting on the throne of David,
And ruling anymore in Judah.’ ”

Pay attention... there may be a test  rofl

This passage says that no descendant of Jeconiah would have the right to the throne of David.

Until Jeremiah, the first requirement for messianic lineage was to be of the house of David.

So not only must the Messiah come from the line of David.... He must also be apart from Jeconiah.

Yet, as we read in Matthew’s genealogy, Joseph is of the lineage of Jeconiah—meaning, none of his descendants could sit on David’s throne.  ::eek::

So then how could Jesus be the Messiah, if the Messiah must come from the line of David, but also not be of the line of Jeconiah?

Wait.... it gets truly interesting here....  ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead::

Remember: Mary was a virgin when she concieve Jesus by the Holy Spirit. That would make Jesus, at best, Joseph's adopted son, while being Mary's biological son.

So how does this explain Jesus being a  descendant of David?

Remember King David had more than one son. One of them was Nathan. None of Nathan's descendants had any "Jeconiah-like" curses.... and  Mary was a descendant of Nathan.

It does get more involved then this but you were not talking about Jesus lineage, I just got carried away.

And that was to make a point that GOD inspired all that to be written in the scriptures we call the Holy Canon so God really believes genealogy to be important.


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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #38 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 08:18:34 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #39 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 18:27:57 »
WS your mind is like Star Trek to me. Could you please explain what you said. I can’t get my head around it.
Dave suggested that there is a small translation problem in Genesis 1:1.  I was just suggesting an alternate translation - instead of "In the beginning..." perhaps a better translation would be "At first..."

My opinion is that Genesis 1 is one of the most poorly translated chapters in the Bible.  The translation we have completely misses the story-telling mood that exists in the Hebrew text.  I'll tell you what, here's how I would translate the first few verses of Genesis 1:

1 At first, God made the skies and the land, 2 but the land that came into being was unformed and empty.

But the surface of the abyss is troubled; the Breath of God is stirring up the surface of the waters!

3 God is saying, "Light, exist!" So light exists.  4 And God examines the light, to see that it is good, and He divides the light from the dark. 5 God is declaring the light "Day," but the dark had been called "Night."

Doesn't sound much like good king Jimmy's version...

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #39 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 18:27:57 »



bel

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #40 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 19:06:34 »
Rella, you said in your post:" This is no place or forum for you if you do not believe that Adam was the first man."

Why would that be? Is this a new commandment of God? I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God commands that one must believe Adam was the first man in order to be saved. Am I missing something?

1 Timothy 1:4 instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculation rather than the stewardship of God's work, which is by faith. The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience and a sincere faith."

About the "seed":
Genesis says "I will make you enemies of each other:you and the woman(Eve), your offspring and her offspring. The way I see it, this is not referring to Eve's physical seed. If it were, then everyone would be the "seed" of Eve, including Jeconiah. God gave the rule of the earth to those who are "made in His image." Being in God's image means having a spirit that is "like God."

" God is love and whoever abides in love love abides in Him. In this way, love has been perfected among us that we may have confidence on the day of judgement because as He is, so are we in this world."

The reason Noah inherited the earth was because he was made in God's image.

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #40 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 19:06:34 »

Offline Rella

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #41 on: Thu Oct 22, 2020 - 21:24:25 »
Rella, you said in your post:" This is no place or forum for you if you do not believe that Adam was the first man."

Why would that be?

I probably should have added~ unless you do not mind being labeled as daft as someone who does not understand Genesis and the way it was written.

Is this a new commandment of God? I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where God commands that one must believe Adam was the first man in order to be saved. Am I missing something?

No,not missing a thing. In fact there is no where in the bible that says you need believe in Adam at all to be saved. Adam just is the start of the lineage that leads
down to Jesus. Because of that it is important.


1 Timothy 1:4 instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.

This certainly follows the beliefs of that person I have blocked. Yet certainly is important enough for God to inspire in the old and new testaments certain pedigrees that seemingly would seem to be there for a reason..

Such things promote controversial speculation rather than the stewardship of God's work, which is by faith.

Tomorrow, God willing, I shall PM you something and then you will know why I said what I did. Time tonight does not permit.

The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience and a sincere faith."

I agree. But you must have observed among those who are regular posters here that
there more often or not disagreement that comes not from controversial speculation or even the stewardship of God's work, which is by faith. And that is becasue each on the opposite side is certain that they are correct  by their interpretation as well
as their individual faith.


About the "seed":
Genesis says "I will make you enemies of each other:you and the woman(Eve), your offspring and her offspring. The way I see it, this is not referring to Eve's physical seed. If it were, then everyone would be the "seed" of Eve, including Jeconiah. God gave the rule of the earth to those who are "made in His image." Being in God's image means having a spirit that is "like God."

I do not agree

" God is love and whoever abides in love love abides in Him. In this way, love has been perfected among us that we may have confidence on the day of judgement because as He is, so are we in this world."

This is a wonderful philosophical way to look at things. I see things as more complicated.

The reason Noah inherited the earth was because he was made in God's image.

And not because of his obedience and love to God?
  ::shrug::

Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #42 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 04:08:16 »
Dave suggested that there is a small translation problem in Genesis 1:1.  I was just suggesting an alternate translation - instead of "In the beginning..." perhaps a better translation would be "At first..."

My opinion is that Genesis 1 is one of the most poorly translated chapters in the Bible.  The translation we have completely misses the story-telling mood that exists in the Hebrew text.  I'll tell you what, here's how I would translate the first few verses of Genesis 1:

1 At first, God made the skies and the land, 2 but the land that came into being was unformed and empty.

But the surface of the abyss is troubled; the Breath of God is stirring up the surface of the waters!

3 God is saying, "Light, exist!" So light exists.  4 And God examines the light, to see that it is good, and He divides the light from the dark. 5 God is declaring the light "Day," but the dark had been called "Night."

Doesn't sound much like good king Jimmy's version...
To be short, you should carefully protect your present vocation  because being a scribe is not your calling.
Quote from: A person who was not hire by king Jimmie
God examines the light, to see that it is good
God DOES NOT need to examine any of his works to SEE IF it was good! His knowledge is PERFECT of ALL THINGS concerning the END before anything has a beginning BY HIM!

Keep your present job I would hate to see you jobless.  ::smile::

Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #43 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 04:15:46 »
Am I missing something?
A better and shorter  question and answer would be....."Do I have anything biblical?"

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« Reply #43 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 04:15:46 »

bel

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #44 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 17:33:00 »
Rella, The way I see it, physical ancestry may have been important to human beings who, in the imagination of their own minds, claimed thrones through so called "royal" bloodlines. However, this is not the case with God. Countless individuals of Jesus' day could have traced their lineage back to David, including Jesus' own brothers and sisters. Maybe the reason Jesus is connected back to Adam and Eve, is to show that the word of God that He preached was there in the beginning with Adam, the son of God.

Yes, Noah was righteous and obedient to God (made in God's image) and that's why he inherited the earth. As Genesis says, "God made man in His likeness and blessed them and said " Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it." If one is evil, disobedient, unloving, etc.etc., he is not in the image of God.

As Jeremiah 22 says: " Hear the word of the Lord, O king of Judah, you who sit on the throne of David, you and your servants and your people who enter these gates! Execute judgement and righteousness, and deliver the plundered out of the hand of the oppressor. Do no wrong and do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, or the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place. for if you indeed do this thing, then shall enter the gates of this house, riding on horses and chariots, accompanied by servants and people, kings who sit on the throne of David."

Unlike many who preach how God cursed all mankind because Adam and Eve sinned, I believe differently. The difference lies in the interpretation. As Jesus said: Whoever seeks to save his own life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. I believe Adam and Eve did just that.

Offline Rella

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #45 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 18:48:03 »
Rella, The way I see it, physical ancestry may have been important to human beings who, in the imagination of their own minds, claimed thrones through so called "royal" bloodlines. However, this is not the case with God. Countless individuals of Jesus' day could have traced their lineage back to David, including Jesus' own brothers and sisters. Maybe the reason Jesus is connected back to Adam and Eve, is to show that the word of God that He preached was there in the beginning with Adam, the son of God.

Yes, Noah was righteous and obedient to God (made in God's image) and that's why he inherited the earth. As Genesis says, "God made man in His likeness and blessed them and said " Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it." If one is evil, disobedient, unloving, etc.etc., he is not in the image of God.

As Jeremiah 22 says: " Hear the word of the Lord, O king of Judah, you who sit on the throne of David, you and your servants and your people who enter these gates! Execute judgement and righteousness, and deliver the plundered out of the hand of the oppressor. Do no wrong and do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, or the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place. for if you indeed do this thing, then shall enter the gates of this house, riding on horses and chariots, accompanied by servants and people, kings who sit on the throne of David."

Unlike many who preach how God cursed all mankind because Adam and Eve sinned, I believe differently. The difference lies in the interpretation. As Jesus said: Whoever seeks to save his own life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. I believe Adam and Eve did just that.

Whatever  ::shrug::

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #46 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 01:03:18 »
To be short, you should carefully protect your present vocation  because being a scribe is not your calling. God DOES NOT need to examine any of his works to SEE IF it was good! His knowledge is PERFECT of ALL THINGS concerning the END before anything has a beginning BY HIM!

Keep your present job I would hate to see you jobless.  ::smile::
Maybe not, but I actually looked at the Hebrew and made an attempt to comprehend it in its entirety.  Can you say the same?  I doubt it.

Offline Bemark

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #47 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 01:49:26 »
LOL~that's funny, and I'm sure you did not mean to be. Mark, some people love Star Trek, maybe you need them to interpret it.  ::smile::
lol Brother I probably make a lot of people sigh as well. You can’t change who you are , only God can do that . Keeping it real.

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #48 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 01:53:19 »
Dave suggested that there is a small translation problem in Genesis 1:1.  I was just suggesting an alternate translation - instead of "In the beginning..." perhaps a better translation would be "At first..."

My opinion is that Genesis 1 is one of the most poorly translated chapters in the Bible.  The translation we have completely misses the story-telling mood that exists in the Hebrew text.  I'll tell you what, here's how I would translate the first few verses of Genesis 1:

1 At first, God made the skies and the land, 2 but the land that came into being was unformed and empty.

But the surface of the abyss is troubled; the Breath of God is stirring up the surface of the waters!

3 God is saying, "Light, exist!" So light exists.  4 And God examines the light, to see that it is good, and He divides the light from the dark. 5 God is declaring the light "Day," but the dark had been called "Night."

Doesn't sound much like good king Jimmy's version...
Thats cool . Maybe you could go back in time and help them out....that’s another film . Back to the future.

Thanks WS I liked the way you said that

Offline RB

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #49 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 03:55:47 »
Maybe not, but I actually looked at the Hebrew and made an attempt to comprehend it in its entirety.  Can you say the same?  I doubt it.
IMO~You wasted your time as far as coming to a better understanding of the truth~the same wording of the Hebrews scriptures God has graciously provided for us in our ENGLISH scriptures. We know that to be true by reading the NT, with the OT scriptures in our ENGLISH Bible. There is no reason for us to think we should learn the Hebrew language by reading the two in English. 

But, ABOVE that point, our Lord and his apostles never once mentioned the NEED for those in their days the NEED to understand the orginals autograph, nor did any scribe in Jesus' day mentioned this, by the fact that there is NO recording of this in the NT writings. They had the word of God and NEVER question whether or not God had preserved them DOWN from Moses until then~ EVEN THEY believed this much so sad many in our day do not.

Question for you Sir: " Where are the original Ten Commandments written on two tablets of stones? " We do not know, do we? So how do we really know they existed? BY FAITH we know because God's word said so~in the same manner by faith we trust that one of the oldest English versions of the scriptures in the world ARE INDEED the very words of God and we do not need to be convinced otherwise, for God has PROMISED to protect his word from evil and wicked men. It is a matter of FAITH, and the just live by faith not by sight and earthly wisdom. I DO NOT need the earthly wisdom of supposedly Dr. Scribe, telling me this or that is the word of God which ninety-nine percent of them only came onto the world's marketplace in the last hundred seventy years plus or minus.
« Last Edit: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 04:18:08 by RB »

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #50 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 06:00:07 »
But, ABOVE that point, our Lord and his apostles never once mentioned the NEED for those in their days the NEED to understand the orginals autograph, nor did any scribe in Jesus' day mentioned this, by the fact that there is NO recording of this in the NT writings. They had the word of God and NEVER question whether or not God had preserved them DOWN from Moses until then~ EVEN THEY believed this much so sad many in our day do not.
That is not quite right.  The verse in Nehemiah (Neh 8:8), that you like to quote when you want to change the clear meaning of some passages of Scripture, is an example of Ezra and the others appealing to the original Hebrew language of "the book, the Law of God" in order that "the people understood the reading." This was done because, as explained by Adam Clark and others,  it appears that they had in general lost the knowledge of the ancient Hebrew to such a degree, that when the book of the law was read, they did not understand it: but certain Levites stood by, and gave the sense, i. e., translated into the Chaldee dialect. This was not only the origin of the Chaldee Targums, or translation of the law and prophets into that tongue but was also, in all probability, the origin of preaching from a text; for it appears that the people were not only ignorant of their ancient language, but also of the rites and ceremonies of their religion, having been so long in Babylon, where they were not permitted to observe them. This being the case, not only the language must be interpreted, but the meaning of the rites and ceremonies must also be explained; for we find from Nehemiah 8:13, etc., of this chapter, that they had even forgotten the feast of tabernacles, and every thing relative to that ceremony.

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #51 on: Sat Oct 24, 2020 - 06:12:12 »
Question for you Sir: " Where are the original Ten Commandments written on two tablets of stones? " We do not know, do we? So how do we really know they existed? BY FAITH we know because God's word said so~in the same manner by faith we trust that one of the oldest English versions of the scriptures in the world ARE INDEED the very words of God and we do not need to be convinced otherwise, for God has PROMISED to protect his word from evil and wicked men. It is a matter of FAITH, and the just live by faith not by sight and earthly wisdom. I DO NOT need the earthly wisdom of supposedly Dr. Scribe, telling me this or that is the word of God which ninety-nine percent of them only came onto the world's marketplace in the last hundred seventy years plus or minus.
Why do you assume that the KJV is the protection of His word as God has promised while none of the other English versions are?  There is absolutely nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that you are correct in that assumption. There is nothing to indicate that other English versions are "by sight and earthly wisdom" any more so than the KJV.  I believe that one of the great gifts of God is that we are living in a time in which the opportunities to actually study God's word is greater than at any time in the past.  The resources we have at our disposal is almost beyond comprehension.

Offline DaveW

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Re: GENESIS! In the beginning....God....!
« Reply #52 on: Mon Oct 26, 2020 - 05:10:11 »
IMO~You wasted your time as far as coming to a better understanding of the truth~the same wording of the Hebrews scriptures God has graciously provided for us in our ENGLISH scriptures.
Hardly.  A rudimentary outline at best. 

Hebrew (as is common to ALL semitic languages) has many levels of meaning; all simultaneously true. No non-semitic language can support that linguistic feature.  The Arabic of the Koran has 7 levels of meaning, biblical Hebrew has at least 4 that have been recognized by the ancient rabbis. 

 

     
anything