Author Topic: Genesis 22:2 (God commanded Abraham to offer Isaac for a burnt offering)  (Read 516 times)

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Offline Michael2012

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Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

I heard this question asked "How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How do you answer that?




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Offline soterion

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Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

I heard this question asked "How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How do you answer that?

The good thing there is that Abraham obeyed by faith. Abraham believed God's promise that Isaac would carry on the seedline, and so would be raised from the dead.

Hebrews 11:17-19.
By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; even he to whom it was said, In Isaac shall thy seed be called: accounting that God is able to raise up, even from the dead; from whence he did also in a figure receive him back.

Offline Michael2012

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The good thing there is that Abraham obeyed by faith. Abraham believed God's promise that Isaac would carry on the seedline, and so would be raised from the dead.

Hebrews 11:17-19.
By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; even he to whom it was said, In Isaac shall thy seed be called: accounting that God is able to raise up, even from the dead; from whence he did also in a figure receive him back.

I'm sorry, but does not the question remains?

"How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?"

How is the command of God to Abraham to kill his son a good thing? 

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Offline Amo

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The question misses the entire point of the event. God did slay His Son for the salvation of humanity. The entire episode was to play out this scenario, that humanity might better understand what was being done for them by God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son. It was the weight of our sins that killed our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Those sins did not just naturally fall upon the Holy One, who knew no sin, they were placed upon Him by the only One who could do such a thing.

Nevertheless, death could not hold the Holy One in the grave because He took our sins upon Himself for our salvation, but knew no sin Himself. He laid down His life, and He took it back again. This is our salvation. No one but God could have accomplished such for fallen humanity. Abraham represented God the Father who must sacrifice His Son, and Isaac represented God the Son who willingly laid down His life by faith in the father for fallen humanity. Thus leading the way as a man, for the rest of humanity to follow. God never intended to actually allow Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the whole event was a lesson on the cost of the salvation of humanity.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Jesus became a man and died for humanity, that humanity might be empowered to follow His lead and example. Will we sacrifice the old man by faith in Jesus Christ who leads the way, or not. Jesus took fallen humanity upon Himself, and lead it to the cross where it died under the penalty of the law, when He came forth from the grave He left fallen humanity within it. Now those who by faith enter into this experience with their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, choose to leave fallen humanity in the grave as well. Which event will be literal and once and for all for each individual saved in Christ at His coming. Till then it is a spiritual experience by faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

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Offline Amo

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If adds keep popping up in my posts, even after deleting them several times, I will stop posting on these boards. Who wants adds popping up right in the middle of their posts distracting others from the points we wish to make. Nonsense.

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Offline Michael2012

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Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How is the command of God to Abraham to kill his son a good thing?

If we consider God's commandment, "Thou shall not kill", the answer to the question is obvious. It's not a good thing.

How about the burning of one's sons with fire for burnt offerings, is that a good thing?


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Offline soterion

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Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How is the command of God to Abraham to kill his son a good thing?

If we consider God's commandment, "Thou shall not kill", the answer to the question is obvious. It's not a good thing.

How about the burning of one's sons with fire for burnt offerings, is that a good thing?

Obviously, God did not intend Abraham to carry out the sacrifice. He was testing Abraham with a foreshadow of His giving of His own Son.

You are asking the wrong questions and accusing God of evil. Instead, ask why did God test Abraham in this way. What good was to come out this experience? I do not believe God committed evil nor did He intend evil in any way here.

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Obviously, God did not intend Abraham to carry out the sacrifice. He was testing Abraham with a foreshadow of His giving of His own Son.

You are asking the wrong questions and accusing God of evil. Instead, ask why did God test Abraham in this way. What good was to come out this experience? I do not believe God committed evil nor did He intend evil in any way here.

Right on ! !

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Offline Michael2012

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Obviously, God did not intend Abraham to carry out the sacrifice. He was testing Abraham with a foreshadow of His giving of His own Son.

You are asking the wrong questions and accusing God of evil. Instead, ask why did God test Abraham in this way. What good was to come out this experience? I do not believe God committed evil nor did He intend evil in any way here.

Just to clarify, I am not at all accusing God of evil. One of the reasons why I started this thread is so the Christian here could share his knowledge in the truth of scriptures and his knowledge of the nature of God that answers this important question.

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Offline Michael2012

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Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How is the command of God to Abraham to kill his son a good thing?

If we consider God's commandment, "Thou shall not kill", the answer to the question is obvious. It's not a good thing.

How about the burning of one's sons with fire for burnt offerings, is that a good thing?

All have sinned and are sinners. The soul that sin, it shall die. The wages of sin is death.

God is sovereign, just, righteous and holy.

God kills and His doing so is not sin or evil or unrighteousness or injustice or unholiness. God kills because He has every right to do so, for He kills people by reason of their wickedness, transgression, uncleanness, corruption. For the wages of sin is death.

Killing is not a good thing for man, for the commandment "Thou shall not kill", as are all commandments that was given to the descendants of Adam, was made for man, the sinful man.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 04:04:22 by Michael2012 »

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All have sinned and are sinners. The soul that sin, it shall die. The wages of sin is death.

God is sovereign, just, righteous and holy.

God kills and His doing so is not sin or evil or unrighteousness or injustice or unholiness. God kills because He has every right to do so, for He kills people by reason of their wickedness, transgression, uncleanness, corruption. For the wages of sin is death.

Killing is not a good thing for man, for the commandment "Thou shall not kill", as are all commandments that was given to the descendants of Adam, was made for man, the sinful man.
And none of that has anything at all to do with the OP.

Offline Michael2012

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And none of that has anything at all to do with the OP.
It does 4WD. For the point of the question is if God's commandment to Abraham to slay his son is a good thing or an evil thing, and if such a commandment does not go against the nature of God.

Perhaps you may have looked at the question in a different angle.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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I heard this question asked "How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How do you answer that?
I say, "you're missing the point of the story."

The practice of sacrificing one's firstborn child to the gods was normative among the Canaanites that Israel lived amongst.  The point of the story is to differentiate God from the Canaanite gods.
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 17:36:58 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh »

Offline Michael2012

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I say, "you're missing the point of the story."

The practice of sacrificing one's firstborn child to the gods was normative among the Canaanites that Israel.  The point of the story is to differentiate God from the Canaanite gods.

There are many points that the story makes. But what is in question is the commandment to kill, even to kill one's son.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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There are many points that the story makes. But what is in question is the commandment to kill, even to kill one's son.
I guess I'll explain further.

The Israelites under Joshua were just about to cross the Jordan and occupy the lands held by the Canaanites. 

The Canaanites unfortunately were engaged in fertility cults, and one of the major practices of those cults was infanticide.  For the Canaanites, it was customary to offer your firstborn son either to pass through the fires to Molech (burned alive) or else to be sealed into a jar and buried in the wall of your house (asphyxiation).

God didn't want the Israelites to do that.  So He put in His own claim on all the firstborn children.

For all the firstborn of the children of Israel are mine, both man and beast: on the day that I smote every firstborn in the land of Egypt I sanctified them for myself. (Numbers 8:17)

Then, He required them to redeem all of those children:

And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,  That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD'S.  And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and ALL the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:  And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

Abraham and Isaac are acting as the pattern.  The commandment to offer Isaac as a human sacrifice was necessary in order that God should put in a claim of ownership on Isaac's life, and by proxy the lives of ALL of the Israelites' firstborn sons that should come afterwards.  And of course, it also sets the pattern for the redemption of them all.

Jarrod

Offline Michael2012

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I guess I'll explain further.

The Israelites under Joshua were just about to cross the Jordan and occupy the lands held by the Canaanites. 

The Canaanites unfortunately were engaged in fertility cults, and one of the major practices of those cults was infanticide.  For the Canaanites, it was customary to offer your firstborn son either to pass through the fires to Molech (burned alive) or else to be sealed into a jar and buried in the wall of your house (asphyxiation).

God didn't want the Israelites to do that.  So He put in His own claim on all the firstborn children.

For all the firstborn of the children of Israel are mine, both man and beast: on the day that I smote every firstborn in the land of Egypt I sanctified them for myself. (Numbers 8:17)

Then, He required them to redeem all of those children:

And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,  That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD'S.  And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and ALL the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:  And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

Abraham and Isaac are acting as the pattern.  The commandment to offer Isaac as a human sacrifice was necessary in order that God should put in a claim of ownership on Isaac's life, and by proxy the lives of ALL of the Israelites' firstborn sons that should come afterwards.  And of course, it also sets the pattern for the redemption of them all.

Jarrod

So the commandment in your view was a necessity. I can see your point and view there. I will not get into that to not get off topic.

But having said all that, would you say that the matter of slaying a son or killing or taking one's life is good or evil? Sin or not sin?

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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So the commandment in your view was a necessity. I can see your point and view there. I will not get into that to not get off topic.

But having said all that, would you say that the matter of slaying a son or killing or taking one's life is good or evil? Sin or not sin?
I mean, it's as simple as "thou shalt not murder," isn't it?

Jarrod

Offline Michael2012

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I mean, it's as simple as "thou shalt not murder," isn't it?

Jarrod

That's right. So, how then God commanded Abraham to slay Isaac if it is sin to take the life of another? What does that make of God? And what does that make of Abraham if and when he follows what God commanded him to do? That is the issue in the OP.

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That's right. So, how then God commanded Abraham to slay Isaac if it is sin to take the life of another? What does that make of God? And what does that make of Abraham if and when he follows what God commanded him to do? That is the issue in the OP.
Perhaps you should give us your answer to the question in the OP and then we will see if we agree.

Offline Michael2012

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Quote from: Michael
That's right. So, how then God commanded Abraham to slay Isaac if it is sin to take the life of another? What does that make of God? And what does that make of Abraham if and when he follows what God commanded him to do? That is the issue in the OP.
Perhaps you should give us your answer to the question in the OP and then we will see if we agree.

I did briefly in Reply #9.

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And I answered that in reply #10.

Offline Michael2012

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And I answered that in reply #10.

And I answered that in reply #11.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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That's right. So, how then God commanded Abraham to slay Isaac if it is sin to take the life of another?
I already explained why.  He did it to set two precedents for the future nation of Israel, which saved countless lives.

What does that make of God?
It makes Him out to be an amazing planner.  He ordered one death, and one stay of execution, and in doing so saved the lives of people who weren't even born yet.

And what does that make of Abraham if and when he follows what God commanded him to do?
You seem to have lost sight of the fact that Abraham DID follow what God commanded Him to do.  We don't need a hypothetical to answer this question - the reality is exactly the same.

Jarrod

Offline M Luther

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I heard this question asked "How is it a good thing that Abraham was going to slay his son? Does that not go against the nature of God?

How do you answer that?

Just as a technical argument, is not Abraham's son a sinner deserving to die?  Is the question really a quibble about God using a man, rather than old age or disease, to potentially kill the son?  For Abraham, by nature, nothing God asks of him is wrong, so he was willing to carry it out.   It's not a sin to take another life, per se.  Throughout the Bible, God uses men to punish other men.

As a moral argument, there's no record of Abraham having any complaints.   This was a necessary demonstration of Abraham's faith for all those who would read scripture about the one to whom a most grand promise was made.