That's a bit of a stretch you're making there John.

For starters, we're not really saying the same thing. What I am saying is only that Jesus said that we can't:

1) ...work for both God AND money. It has to be one or the other (according to Him at least).

2) ...be his disciples (Christians) if we don't forsake all that we have---and the first Church in the books of Acts took that as a literal command. Is that really what our 21st century churches seem to be saying and actually doing?

3) ...store up treasures on the earth where moths eat, rust destroys and thieves try to steal. There appears to be plenty of evidence that Jesus and the early church lived this out. And even when they did have resources, it was shared equally among all of them, so much so that they didn't even believe in "private property" (EEEKKK! They were communists! "Billybob, go get some wood together, we gonna burn some socialists at the stake tonight!") 

But there are some who claim that they are in the minority with their views. Well don't fret, cause there are many more out there who can sympathize. Take this video about the ministry of a man named Creflo Dollar(!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCS0YHm_58c

So you want to pick out Creflo Dollar as an example of greed heh?

The first clue that you are on the wrong side in the video is the presence of Al Sharpton....I totally forget to remember that he is supposed to be a minister of the gospel.

Nothing at all about what he says or does is scripturally based. Next you'll be carting out Jesse Jackson...PLEASE DON'T!

It'll just take more wind out of your sail

Those 2 people want poor people to stay poor so they can get rich off of them. They need the poor and I've never heard either of them so much quote Jesus or say anything nearing something of God!

What you and others ( especially non believers ) call prosperity gospel is actually freeing people to believe they do not have to remain poor. It is freeing them to believe that God desires them to have good things. That the blessings of God are just as available for them as it is for others.  

You get a big fat zero for agreeing with Al Sharpton....sorry

The other preacher in Atlanta doesn't know the scriptures and doesn't know of any theologian that understands Jesus was not poor....what bible is he reading?

So why don't you study for yourself

And why don't you address the question why did Jesus have a treasurer?

Why don't you address the gold and valuables given Him at birth?

Why don't you address the 2 rich men in Luke 18 and Luke 19 side by side?

Why don't you address the wealth of Job, Solomon, Abraham and Isaac to name a few?

Why don't you address the fact that in numerous verses the Book of Proverbs equates poverty with being a curse and a robber!

Why don't you address the fact that the blessings of God listed in the Book of Deuteronomy make it clear that the blessings of God equate with prosperity and the lack of those blessings are equated with being cursed with poverty?  

Try reading Deuteronomy 28 for once ...then argue with God. Tell him how Deut 28 and Proverbs 10:22 don't make any sense to you.
Tell Him how you don't need His blessings because you thinks it's a blessing to be poor.  


Allow me to ask you this , How many men has God used you to keep from continuing in the cycle of going in and out of prison?


How many job programs, feeding programs and housing programs have you established?
 
No commentary, just answer how many?

How many schools for children has God used you to build?

How many prostitutes has God used you to help start a new life and leave the life of the streets?

How many homes have you built?

Lets go to Joyce Meyers

How many hospital clinics have you built in India?

How many medical ships do you send down the Amazon with free medical clinics?

How many homes and shattered lives did you help to rebuild after the Tsunami?

How many orphanages have you built and support?

Lets go to Victory Outreach International

How many former gang-bangers and drug addicts have you turned to Jesus away from lives of crime, violence into productive citizens

How many residential rehab centers have you built in America, Africa and Australia


How many sex slaves have you bought out of captivity....Yes bought as in paid for?
Did you know there are some ministries that raise cash to pay for the freedom of women and children who have been sold into sex slavery?

How many Sudanese have you bought out of slavery?...YES bought as in purchased with money!!
There are ministries that do this as well

Some people are just talk while on the other hand God blessed some people to be a blessing to others

People who think Jesus and the disciples were a rag tag destitute group of homeless people usually attend churches that are just as ineffective as a group of rag tag homeless people.

Can't help the homeless people because they're one step away from being homeless themselves.
Churches I support have prison ministry and a place for ex cons to live when they get out.
They have a support system that helps them get jobs and back on their feet.

Churches I support have childrens homes for orphans women homes for battered women and street women that want to change their lives.

Churches I support build houses in Mexico and dig wells in Africa...the truth is ID you can't be a broke church and do any of that.

Churches I support give scholarships to college
 
When the church members see the work being done in the name of Jesus to give people a better life, they don't mind giving, sowing and tithing and they don't mind if the Pastor of a church is living in a manner deserving of one who is giving so much to so many
..why should that bother you, except for you want with all your heart to believe Jesus was broke and homeless and more than that you believe he wants all of us to be broke and homeless to.

Look around the world...nations that are impoverished with crippling poverty are usually nations where the gospel has not been accepted. When just a handful of the people in those nations do receive the gospel somehow they manage to rise up above the ash heaps of those who do not and they become a blessing to their communities, the ones who have food and clothes to give, shelter and are able to share out of their abundance with those who do not....just look around ID

As we speak there's an explosion of the Gospel in China, coincidentally hand in hand with prosperity...

...should they stay impoverished?

Next North Korea...where people are starving. Franklin Graham, Billy's son was just recently there.
Once those people get a hold of the gospel their lives will change for the better as well
 

Hallelujah....God is Good and every good and perfect Gift comes down from the Father of Lights!

If its good I want it and
 
I promise to God before every man I will use what God gives me to further His Gospel and be a blessing to others in any way He leads me!

In case you missed it, I was actually tooting the horns of others, merely giving you sound practical examples of good ground. You don't seem to read well but I assure you, if you read it again you'll see I was talking about the work of others as compared with someone else who probably does nothing near those he criticizes

Translated - good ground means a person or an entity where you can feel reasonably assured that your God given money, time and prayers will help yield and bring about a harvest for the Kingdom.

See why you really shouldn't cite scriptures that are out of context, it makes it appear you're repeating what someone told you rather than having actually read it for yourself.  


Hm-m-m-m ....let me see,
We have Creflo Dollar on the one hand and Al Sharpton on the other....hmmm lets see... One actually teaches the Word and successfully pastors thousands.
The other uses the media to get his way through race baiting, lying, wielding political power and strong arming government officials and corporations into supporting his own self serving agenda....this is a no brainer, but to each his own. I'll stand with Pastor Dollar, obviously you and Rev Al agree  ( Amos 3:3 )

Furthermore If you actually knew anything about the man, you'd know that Creflo Dollar teaches on all aspects of the word and is staunchly opposed to ungodliness.
Also
He actually does a multitude of things to build up the lives of people and further the Kingdom. There is simply no comparison at all between the political activist Al Sharpton and a man dedicated to the Lord like Pastor Creflo Dollar.

He's not my pastor but I respect and support any man or woman of God who teaches the Word and actually does something to be a blessing to others.

Unfortunately for you, you'd probably consider most of them prosperity preachers.
But also unfortunately for you, that attitude will probably prevent you from doing one iota of the things these people do for others in the Name of Jesus....the thing about it is...they DO NOT toot their own horn so you won't know what they do unless you look into it.

Myself I amazed at some of the things God has enable these ministries to accomplish.

Are there some unscrupulous preachers using the bible in greed to exploit others simply to make themselves rich ...of course!
 But you should know that for sure and know exactly who they are and have a case against them before you slander and malign a person's character by labeling everyone who teaches something you don't understand with one broad brush stroke....I think that's called bearing false witness.


By the authority vested in me you hereby banned from quoting another verse out of context until you can explain the difference between the 2 rich men in Luke 18 and Luke 19
 

Just joking but you really need to address this matter, otherwise you are giving the appearance you are purposely avoiding admitting Jesus SAVED a rich man and that also a number of Jesus disciples were also very well to do

Ohh g, you are a funny creature!


It's nice to finally see where you are getting your biblical understanding from.

Did you happen to see the part in the video where someone (Jim Wallis) is clearly pointing out that the so-called "prosperity gospel" is heretical?

This kind of preaching was vehemently fought against among the early Christians, but it has become nearly reputable in a world that has made the love of money acceptable.

I also enjoyed the preacher who was able to relate the fact that people like pastor "Dollar" have essentially the same message of many recent hip-hop artists, who have albums with titles like "get rich or die tryin'". How far we have strayed...all conveniently packaged in something that calls itself christianity.

Anyway, regarding the passage in Luke 19 about ol' Zac, this ground has already been covered.

Long story short is that Zac said he would give half of all his goods to the poor. Ok that's pretty good.

Then he says that he will repay ANYONE he cheated (which is how he actually made money. Zac had to shake people down for MORE than what Caesar had taxed them in order to get his own share) FOUR TIMES what he extorted from them. Now if anyone can imagine how many people he was likely to have cheated and how much that would come to, poor old Zac wouldn't have much (if anything) left afterwards.

So what's your point, Creflo?


And now that I've humored your demand, don't you think it would be good of you to return the favor by simply citing Jesus actual teachings (not parables, but direct teachings or commands) that support your prospertity gospel, rather than grabbing at all those straws to try and prove your case?

Oh and BTW, you or Johnb never did tell me how much money the queen of Sheba brought to Solomon. Wanna make a guess?

 

 

God bless you too!