Author Topic: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?  (Read 3055 times)

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Offline Amo

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #105 on: Sat Jun 11, 2022 - 16:27:10 »
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Actually, I have said my position early on, all I was doing is showing you and any others who may read your error~and, yes, you are the very one not understanding these scriptures. Are you purposely taking them out of their context? No, I do not believe you are~God is withholding light from you since you refuse to break off from the SDA doctrine that you have received over the years.

Don’t just speak of one taking verses out of context, show how I have taken them out of context. Here we are, show how I have taken verses out of context. What was the supposed context which I ignored? I showed you the context being ignored in Joh 5:26-29 concerning the literal dead in their graves.

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Amo, I'll say the same to you. Example: You quoted:

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Let us carefully listen to the word of God.

“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. "Amo, this quickening has not one thing to do with a bodily resurrection, but given life to dead sinners! How do we know this? By these words:  the Son quickeneth whom he will.

This quickening is LIMITED to only those given to Christ.

John 17:2,3~"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

What is your above nonsensical argument? You take one verse out of the context it is in, say it has nothing to do with actual context concerning those in their graves hearing Christ’s voice and coming forth, and demand what? That I and others agree with such nonsense? No.

Then you say that this quickening is LIMITED to only those given to Christ. As though capitalizing and emphasizing your own words concerning the matter, make them definitive of scripture. Baloney!

The verse you quoted itself, denies the restrictions your own interpretation seeks to place upon it. Restrictions you take from verses 12 chapters after Joh 5, not the context of chapter five itself, which you have already chosen to dismiss. Let me emphasize the scriptures of Joh 5, not my own words - “even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.” The Son quickens whom He will, not only some select given to Him. They are those He chooses Himself. Not that there would ever be a difference between whom the Father or Son choose. There of course would not be.

Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Again though, who are you to limit verses 19-29 of John 5 to spiritual resurrection alone, when its own context does not? And then try to redefine and limit that context with quoted scripture from 12 chapters later, which is not specifically addressing resurrections as Joh 5:19-29 is? No one, as far as I am concerned. 

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Again, one more for now:

Matthew 11:25-27~“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

This takes place in what the scriptures calls the FIRST resurrection.

More baloney! Trying still to define and restrict the actual context of scripture specifically addressing the resurrections, with scriptures from another book altogether not specifically addressing the resurrections. There is no mention of the first, second, or any resurrections in the context of the verses you just quoted above. Here are the only verses of scripture which actually use the term first resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now let us examine the context of the above only place in scripture actually addressing the term first resurrection, and the context you ignore and bypass in them as well. First let’s address the contradiction your position creates which I have already addressed before. If in fact, the spiritual death and resurrection Paul speaks of in his writings were meant to be applied in all scripture referring to resurrections as the first of them, then there is the problem of the saved dying a second death. Which second death the very scriptures which actually address the first resurrection above, declare has no power over the saved. In other words they will not die the second death. This is not a problem for any, but those who like yourself, insist that Paul’s spiritual death and resurrections were meant to be applied as the first of all biblical resurrections even in the literal realm.

Nevertheless, Paul himself kept discussion of these resurrections separate. Correct me if I am wrong, by supplying the scriptures where he compounded the two. He certainly never calls the spiritual resurrection he speaks of the first resurrection. The only time he speaks of the dead rising first, is in 1Thess 4, while addressing the literal resurrection. Which in and of itself, denotes that he did not consider his thoughts concerning spiritual death and resurrection, to be connected to the literal realities or details of the literal resurrections.

Apart from these contradictions, there is also the problem of those who are said to have been beheaded for their witness of Jesus, which is an obvious reference to literal death. Therefore by extension as well, the first resurrection which they will take part in excluding them from the effects of the second death, is also obviously literal. The context does not end here though.

Those of the first resurrection have overcome the beast. They did not worship the beast or its image, or receive its mark. Lest you forget, the beast intends to kill all who will not worship it, and will kill many who do not.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world…………………………………………………..
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


This beast power overcomes and kills many of the saints. This happens before they are part of the first resurrection. It therefore cannot be a reference to the the spiritual death and or resurrection which in fact must take place among all the saved, before the first literal resurrection takes place. Nor could any stand against the beast, who had not already spiritually died in Christ and therefore was empowered by Him to walk in newness of life. Required no doubt for any living in defiance of the beast and his minions. Again, I am not the one ignoring details or context to support my views. 

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At the second resurrection, ALL will be resurrected and it is NOT limited to a designated few as the first resurrection is.

John 5:28,29~“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves] shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

The bible does not in fact ever use the term second resurrection. A second death of course implying the same though. So the verses you are referring to as the second resurrection, are not designated as such by scripture, this is what you assume. No doubt according as you have already chosen to believe. Nevertheless, they most certainly do address two separate kinds of resurrection. One unto life, and one unto damnation. Which you presume take place at the same time. The scriptures you quoted do not say this though.

The scriptures themselves do actually address two different literal resurrections in the future, taking place at two different times.  And they do so right in the context of those scriptures only, which address the first resurrection. It is only right of course, that the scriptures which address the first resurrection and second death, should also address the second resurrection, keeping it within proper context. Which context you ignore in your quest to make Paul’s  references to spiritual death and resurrection, the first deaths and resurrections of scripture. Observe the highlighted in the following scriptures.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who do you suppose the rest of the dead are, who do not live again until the thousand years are finished? Living again entails first dying, and then being resurrected. Does it not? Those who did not worship the beast or his image are already alive and reigning with Christ for the thousand years, having been part of the first resurrection and therefore free from the second death. So who are the rest of the dead, that do not live again until the thousand years are complete? This is a no brainer for bible students, who know that two things happen at Christ’s second coming. The saved are raised unto the eternal life promised and assured to them through Christ Jesus our Lord, and the wicked are destroyed along with this world. Both of which Paul and Peter testify. Those wicked are the dead, who live not again for a thousand years, and are subject to the second death which they will all die at that time. These are the two separate resurrections which Jesus spoke of in Joh 5:26-29, separate in time and effect.

Those of the first literal resurrection are alive with Christ evermore during the thousand years. Those outside of Christ at His return were destroyed by it and are dead during the thousand years. They live not again until the thousand years are finished, at which time -

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

After the thousand years, Satan is loosed to deceive apparently the raised wicked once again. It can be nothing else, as the saved are living and reigning with Christ during this thousand years having partaken of the first resurrection, and all the rest of the dead would not live again until the end of said thousand years. These whom Satan is deceiving, are those whom he deceived unto death the first time around. Now apparently brought back to life in the second resurrection of damnation, which our Lord spoke of in Joh 5:26-29. Only to die the second death having themselves either rejected the truth in their former lives, or worshipped the beast and his image. The following verses are addressing the same by way of repetition and enlargement, as the book of Revelation does over an again.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

All of the wicked dead will stand before God unto judgment and the second resurrection which will take place at the end of the thousand years unto the second death. The books they are judged out of are no doubt that which the saints of the first resurrection went over during their judgement of the wicked for the thousand years (Rev 20:4). They are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Which death is not the sleep of the first death which all of humanity die, save those alive at Christ’s return, from which all will be awakened. It is judgment unto death indeed.

Psa 37:18The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever. 19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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You said:

Amo- The verses are very specific in addressing the literal dead coming out of their graves.

Yes, 28,29 does, but not John 5:21-26!

Verses 19 through 29 are in relation to resurrection from the dead. There is no sense in trying to separate some of it as spiritual application alone, and the rest as literal, without any indication of such separation from scripture itself. Such of course is necessary to those promoting a view, which application of a literal resurrection contradicts. It is their own views which necessitate such, not the scriptures themselves, which clearly make no attempt at such a division within the context.

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Amo - SDA’s and Martin Luther both understand the truth of spiritual death and resurrection very well, that they are necessary to salvation.

No you two differ greatly on the spiritual resurection. I know and can prove the same letter. What you agree on is that the righteous are sleeping until the resurrection day of the bodies of all! He was in error on this, as he was on a few more doctrine, like baptizing babies, etc.

Very well then proceed. I have an extensive library of his writings as well, and do know of course what I myself believe regarding the same. Maybe we will both learn something.

Offline Amo

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #106 on: Sat Jun 11, 2022 - 16:50:05 »
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As I noted, the word "sleep" is often used as an euphemism for death. That is clearly the case for both passages of scripture you posted.

Do you even know what an euphemism is.  We use them all the time.  How about Kick the bucket? That is an euphemish for dying also.  Does it mean one who has "Kicked the bucket" has actually kicked a bucket? Not likely.  How about fire as an euphemism for terminating employment? Does that mean one who has been fired from his job has actually been lit on fire? Nah, I don't think so.

No. God is not an idiot. Scripture does not use obviously piss poor euphemisms conveying the exact opposite state of affairs, than that of which truly exists among the dead. People who are conscious and either in the bliss of heaven, or the pit of hell, are experiencing nothing like sleep at all. Their thoughts most certainly have not perished while they are enjoying either the unimaginable joys of heaven in the presence of Christ, the Father, and holy angels, or in the depths of unimaginable pain and suffering in the supposed fires of hell. The dead in Christ would of course worship Him and the Father, though scripture says they do not. You are seriously mistaken.

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What in heavens name are you talking about.  The saved do not have to die again spiritually.  I have never said that or anything like that. I don't recall anyone else ever saying such a stupid thing. Where would you get such an idea.

I got it from you. You said all have died spiritually from the fall. If all died in the spiritual sense at the fall, then why would the save need to die again spiritually unto salvation? Maybe this is connected to your erroneous views concerning the saved having no real literal bodies in the resurrection. Is that it?

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Most of that is just complete absolute nonsense.

Yes, I understand just how you feel, regarding my own views concerning your's. So be it.

Offline 4WD

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #107 on: Sat Jun 11, 2022 - 18:56:58 »
I got it from you. You said all have died spiritually from the fall.
You didn't get that from me.  I definitely do not believe in Original Sin. I believe such crudity is an affront to God Himself.
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If all died in the spiritual sense at the fall, then why would the save need to die again spiritually unto salvation?
I haven't the foggiest idea how you could get that from anything I said. Nothing about that came from me.  Let me take you through it.

Paul said, Rom 3:23  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,.... He also said, Eph 2:1  And you were dead in the trespasses and sins. This death is obviously spiritual death. He went on to say, Eph 2:4  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- Here to be made alive means  regenerated, i.e., born again, having "passed [spiritually] from death to life" (John 5:24) That is the First Resurrection referenced in Revelation 20:5. That is the condition for every one who has been saved. Without getting into the weeds of whether Once-Saved-Always-Saved is correct or not, I will assume that the one who has been saved remains so throughout life and then dies. Whatever the condition of that Saint, that Christian, who has died, between his death and Jesus' return, when Jesus returns at the end of the age that one who died will be resurrected along with everyone else, saved or not saved, at the same time. The point is that the number "thousand" in the thousand years spoken of in Revelation 20:4 is figurative like so many other numbers in Revelation.  It means simply a very large number of years, a very long time. The reign of Christ is in place, even now.

Can you possibly believe that the Kingdom of Heaven has not yet arrived? I would hope not.  Jesus declared when He walked the earth that the Kingdom was "at hand".  I think most Christian theologians would agree that kingdom was established at the death of Jesus on the Cross and it was inaugurated at Pentecost. Christians, the Body of Christ, reign today with Christ.  We are in the Millennium Now. At the end of the Millennium "all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29).

There is so much more to be said here, but I will stop for now.
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Maybe this is connected to your erroneous views concerning the saved having no real literal bodies in the resurrection. Is that it[?/size]
Here you go again.  I have never said that the saved have no real literal bodies in the resurrection.  Why would I ever say that.  Paul says that we will have real bodies in the resurrection.  But he doesn't say that they will be physical bodies like the ones we now have.  In fact he says quite the opposite.  He says, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body" (1Cor 15:44) Do not be confused; the spiritual body is a real literal body; it is not a physical [natural] body but it is a real literal body.

Offline DaveW

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #108 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 06:53:46 »
To the contrary, the bible speaks plainly about the sleep of death, you simply ignore or reject what it says because it doesn't support what you have chosen to believe. As you do so many other scriptures for the same reason.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Psa 13:3  Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

The dead are referred to as asleep fifty some odd times in scripture. The scriptures also state that the dead know nothing of what goes on in this world, think nothing of it, and do not even worship God. None of which people sleeping do either.
Amo - the topic is SOUL sleep.  The verses you quote are referring to the physical body.

NOT THE SAME THING.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #108 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 06:53:46 »

Offline Amo

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #109 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 08:06:59 »
Amo - the topic is SOUL sleep.  The verses you quote are referring to the physical body.

NOT THE SAME THING.

No physical body, no soul. The spirit or breath of God, plus the body He formed and created, equal a living soul. Separate them, and you no longer have a living soul or otherwise. This is why scripture itself also refers to souls dying so many times. We are living souls. When we die our spirit goes back to God who gave it, and our bodies back to the dust they were formed out of. We are no longer living souls.

We would be truly dead, if our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ had not been, was not, and is not the LAMB of God. Slain from the foundation of the world unto redemption for all who care to accept this gift of eternal life. Therefore are all the dead really as it were asleep, because all will be awakened from death to life once again. Some in the resurrection of life, and others in the resurrection of damnation.


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul.  This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

Eccl 12:5..….. because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?

Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.

Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:) 5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.

Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is its end. When life ends, it ends.

Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.

Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.

Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.

Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.

Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?

Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.

Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.

Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: he soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Again, the soul is identified with the person. If the person lives, the soul lives. If the person dies, the soul dies. A soul is a living person with a body combined with the breath, or spirit from God.

Matt 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.

Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.

Acts 2: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.

Acts 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.

Heb 10:38-39 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.

James 5:19-20 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.

Rev 16: 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #109 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 08:06:59 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #110 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 09:16:47 »
It seems that you do not understand the distinction between soul and spirit.  The soul is simply a living being.  Animals are souls, living beings; they have bodies; they do not have spirits.  Human beings are souls; they have both bodies and spirits.  There is a distinction even though, for the most part when speaking of human beings, soul and spirit are often used interchangeably, particularly in the NT.
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 09:21:22 by 4WD »

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #111 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 09:50:11 »
It seems that you do not understand the distinction between soul and spirit.  The soul is simply a living being.  Animals are souls, living beings; they have bodies; they do not have spirits.  Human beings are souls; they have both bodies and spirits.  There is a distinction even though, for the most part when speaking of human beings, soul and spirit are often used interchangeably, particularly in the NT.
Actually, the word nefesh (soul in OT) is used almost a dozen different ways.  Sometimes it just refers to a living person. At other times it is referring to a separate part of the human make up.  Paul used it that way when he said:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That corresponds to our being made in the likeness of the Triune GOD.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #112 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 10:15:52 »
Actually, the word nefesh (soul in OT) is used almost a dozen different ways.  Sometimes it just refers to a living person. At other times it is referring to a separate part of the human make up.  Paul used it that way when he said:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That corresponds to our being made in the likeness of the Triune GOD.
That doesn't change what I said.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #113 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 12:07:23 »
That doesn't change what I said.
Actually it does, since they (soul and spirit) are referenced separately.  It is the modern mindset that confuses them or sees them as the same thing.

The soul is often looked at as the mind, made up of intelligence, the will and the emotions.  That means the spirit is part of us that connects us with God and is dead/not functional until we are born again.   I know many unsaved people who have their intelligence and will and emotions fully operational.  But there is no spirit.
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 12:10:51 by DaveW »

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #113 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 12:07:23 »

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #114 on: Mon Jun 13, 2022 - 13:05:58 »
Actually it does, since they (soul and spirit) are referenced separately.  It is the modern mindset that confuses them or sees them as the same thing.
As I said, the meanings of soul and spirit are not strictly the same; yet in the NT they used almost interchangeably.  Quite a long time ago, Wycliffes_Shillelagh stated the actual relationship of the body, soul and spirit with which I agree completely. Man is a soul [GR- nephesh], i.e. a living being (Gen 2:7); he has a body and a spirit.  I am a soul; I have a body and a spirit.  In the NT, when it speaks of the soul, it is almost always referencing the spirit and seldom the body (see e.g., Matthew 10:28).

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #115 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 05:48:20 »
I am a soul; I have a body and a spirit.
PLease be very careful with such statements.  It is bordering on the ancient heresy of gnosticism.

You are (according to Paul) Spirit, Soul and Body.  All 3. 
Quote
In the NT, when it speaks of the soul, it is almost always referencing the spirit and seldom the body (see e.g., Matthew 10:28).
That is one interpretation of it.  One which I do not agree with.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #116 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 07:22:17 »
PLease be very careful with such statements.  It is bordering on the ancient heresy of gnosticism.
And that from one who, it seems to me, comes close to the Judaisers who gave Paul such problems.
Quote from: DaveW
You are (according to Paul) Spirit, Soul and Body.  All 3.  That is one interpretation of it.  One which I do not agree with.
Do you have a reference for that claim that Paul says, "You are Spirit, Soul and Body"  I found only 1Thessalonians 5:23 that mentions all three and it is not quite what you claim.  I disagree with quite a few of your statements here, so I can't object to your disagreeing with me.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #117 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 08:28:43 »
And that from one who, it seems to me, comes close to the Judaisers who gave Paul such problems.Do you have a reference for that claim that Paul says, "You are Spirit, Soul and Body"  I found only 1Thessalonians 5:23 that mentions all three and it is not quite what you claim.  I disagree with quite a few of your statements here, so I can't object to your disagreeing with me.

I prefer to borrow the following as I too say:

I Am A Spirit, I Have A Soul, And I Live In A Body.

Supported by.............

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Or as King Jimmy would say...

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mitch Horton wrote:
https://www.mitchhorton.com/post/i-am-a-spirit-i-have-a-soul-and-i-live-in-a-body
Quote
A close, overcoming walk with God begins by knowing how you function as a human created in God’s image. Here’s a simple overview that helps me.

 I am a spirit being, I possess a soul, and I live in a physical body. The real, eternal part me, is spirit. God is a Spirit. I am made in His image as an eternal spirit.

 My conscience is the voice of my spirit. My conscience must be trained in the Word of God and obeyed implicitly. If I train my conscience in the Word, it can become the primary way God leads me. I call a trained conscience the inward witness. I must instantly obey the Word that I know, and never violate my conscience. When I violate my conscience, I am allowing my mind and my body to usurp that first place that my spirit should hold in my life.

I, as a spirit being, possess a soul. My soul is made up of three parts; mind, emotion, and will. The dominant part of my soul is my will. With my will, I can direct my mind and my emotions to obey my spirit through my conscience.

 My mind and emotions are like tag team wrestlers. They work together to seek to rule my life. They play on one another, my mind alerting my emotions, and then both of them working together to get me to respond to life the way I did before Jesus redeemed me.

My mind is very keen and seeks to dominate my life. It thinks it knows how best to protect me. It has this fight or flight mechanism built in and seeks to protect me from what it perceives as harm. It seeks to parallel what happens now to what has happened in my past. It alerts my emotions to feel now what I felt in similar experiences that I’ve had in my past.

  I must retrain my mind to listen to my conscience, the voice of my spirit. My mind must be continually renewed with God’s Word, or it will revert back to old ways of responding. 

  In my soul there is a residue of sinful thoughts, emotions, responses, and motives left over from my before Christ days. It can make me think something is real when it really isn’t. My soul is clever and frequently seeks to undermine the rule of my spirit. I must be very cautious and careful to keep my soul submitted to God’s Word and to my re-born human spirit.

My body is the part of me that will perish in 80 or 90 years or so of living on earth. It is my earth suit that I must have to live on this planet. I must never let it dominate my spirit or my soul. My body easily responds to earthly things and has an appetite for anything to which it is exposed. I must control my body and keep it disciplined so that my spirit can manifest through it. I must use my body as an instrument of righteous and godly living, and must not use it in a selfish way.

 The Father can help me build up my spirit through the Word and then through prayer, particularly praying in the spirit or in other tongues. The Father can help me keep my mind and my motions submitted to my spirit through His Word. And He can help me keep my body under strict discipline. He wants my whole spirit, soul, and body to flow with Him!

#ChristianLife #SpiritualGrowth
[/size]

Now, as there will be some... perhaps most who will argue these are not accurate.... I do not care.

If 1 Thes 5:23 is not enough proof for you.... Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

certifies it.

Offline 4WD

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #118 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 08:47:23 »
When God said, ""Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds" ", the word He used for "creature" was "nephesh"

When God said, " And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. the word He used for soul was "nephesh"

This tells me that humans together with the rest of the animals are living creatures, i.e, living souls.  Both humans and animals have bodies.  The difference between humans and the rest of the animals is that humans have spirits.

For what it is worth.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #119 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 09:22:35 »
Actually, the word nefesh (soul in OT) is used almost a dozen different ways.  Sometimes it just refers to a living person. At other times it is referring to a separate part of the human make up.  Paul used it that way when he said:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That corresponds to our being made in the likeness of the Triune GOD.


Correct

Why do people find this so hard to understand? Why?

When there are places in the NT that confirm it.

@4WD..

You say...

"the word He used for "creature" was "nephesh"

"the word He used for soul was "nephesh"

Can you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person(s) who wrote nephesh were correct, or that they understood what they were saying..... because basically this tells me that when a animal dies it continues into eternity.

Is it not possible that they simply had no other way to convey things at that moment in time?

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #120 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 10:41:53 »
I prefer to borrow the following as I too say:
I Am A Spirit, I Have A Soul, And I Live In A Body.
I remember that line.  I chafed at it 25 years ago and I still do. 

It is no different than saying "I am a person, I have a computer, and I live in a house." 
The problem is the computer and house are NOT you; whereas God made man from the dust of the earth.  (the body) It does NOT say that he made a house for a man, rather he made the man himself.  So the body is as much you as your spirit is.

Greek Gnosticism (which found its way into the early church) taught that the spirit was good and right but the physical flesh was evil.  In the christian form it denied Christ could come in an actual human flesh body, since flesh was irredeemably evil.  The more modern version just downplays the body as a shell for the TRUE person which is the spirit.  But it is the same heresy.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #121 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 11:11:37 »
You say...

"the word He used for "creature" was "nephesh"

"the word He used for soul was "nephesh"

Can you prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person(s) who wrote nephesh were correct, or that they understood what they were saying.....
No, but then I can't prove that for any word in the entire Bible; and neither can you..  In which case if that is your argument, then you can't be sure of anything.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #122 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 12:21:58 »
Please be very careful with such statements.  It is bordering on the ancient heresy of gnosticism.
Not really.  The opposite, I think.

The idea of a tri-partate split of man is the gnostic idea here.  Go google 'tripartite tractate' or read up on Valentinianism.

You are (according to Paul) Spirit, Soul and Body.  All 3.  That is one interpretation of it.  One which I do not agree with.
I've said this in a bunch of topics now, but I guess one more won't hurt...

The Bible doesn't use these words consistently.  You can't put a single meaning on 'spirit' or 'soul' that holds through the whole Bible.  (Body is consistent, though).

As for Paul, he does something with these words that is quite rare in the Bible... he uses them for their meaning within Greek philosophy, rather than their meaning in Hebrew scriptures.  He is talking about the motivations for our actions, and if that isn't also the context of what you're talking about then you shouldn't be citing Paul in this regard.

Jarrod

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #123 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 16:11:29 »
I remember that line.  I chafed at it 25 years ago and I still do. 

It is no different than saying "I am a person, I have a computer, and I live in a house." 
The problem is the computer and house are NOT you; whereas God made man from the dust of the earth.  (the body) It does NOT say that he made a house for a man, rather he made the man himself.  So the body is as much you as your spirit is.

Greek Gnosticism (which found its way into the early church) taught that the spirit was good and right but the physical flesh was evil.  In the christian form it denied Christ could come in an actual human flesh body, since flesh was irredeemably evil.  The more modern version just downplays the body as a shell for the TRUE person which is the spirit.  But it is the same heresy.

Why?

As I prefer to personalize the statement ( or perhaps you feel a woman ought not ) what I say is in perfecr line with
your Holy Bible.... though admittedly I do not know... or have forgotten your tanslation of choice.


Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Or as King Jimmy would say...

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is exactly what I said elsewhere.

People read and by their own interpretations will not accept what another says that is basically the same thing.

Quote from: DaveW on Today at 05:48:20
Quote
You are (according to Paul) Spirit, Soul and Body.  All 3.  That is one interpretation of it. One which I do not agree with.

So lets just throw the baby out with the bath water when you dont agree with someone who is alledged to be inspired by God.

If the bible is wrong in part, it must be wrong in all.[/size]

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #124 on: Tue Jun 14, 2022 - 16:16:40 »
If the bible is wrong in part, it must be wrong in all.
That makes no logical sense at all.  The Bible is a collection of 66 books, actually more than that because some of the books are also collections of books.

I've heard this repeated a lot, and I think its absolutely crap.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #125 on: Wed Jun 15, 2022 - 05:26:09 »
Quote from: DaveW on Today at 05:48:20
Quote
You are (according to Paul) Spirit, Soul and Body.  All 3.  That is one interpretation of it. One which I do not agree with.
You are missing a HUGE point here by not including this quote from 4WD which goes just after the "All 3":
Quote
In the NT, when it speaks of the soul, it is almost always referencing the spirit and seldom the body (see e.g., Matthew 10:28).
What I am disagreeing with is 4WD's comment about spirit and soul referring to the same thing.
Quote from: Rella
So lets just throw the baby out with the bath water when you dont agree with someone who is alledged to be inspired by God.

If the bible is wrong in part, it must be wrong in all.
The bible is not wrong.  BUT - Peoples' interpretation and understanding of it can be TOTALLY wrong.

Since there are different words in the original text - Soul comes from nefesh and spirit comes from ruach in the OT Hebrew - they are NOT the same thing. However, they are all part of us.  Just as Paul said in 1 Cor 12:

5 If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

The spirit and the soul are all parts of us; just as the hand and the foot and the ear and the eye.  To deny that puts you into the category that Paul is trying to correct here.
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 15, 2022 - 05:31:36 by DaveW »

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #126 on: Wed Jun 15, 2022 - 05:31:36 »
The Hebrew language is WAY more broad and descriptive than English. Making misinterpretation of the OUR Bible almost inevitable.

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #127 on: Wed Jun 15, 2022 - 08:53:02 »
Actually, the word nefesh (soul in OT) is used almost a dozen different ways.  Sometimes it just refers to a living person. At other times it is referring to a separate part of the human make up.  Paul used it that way when he said:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That corresponds to our being made in the likeness of the Triune GOD.

One bible verse, a doctrine does not make. Why refer to OT use of the word soul, and then quote a NT verse to support the argument you are presenting? Putting the words spirit, body, and soul together in one sentence of the scriptures, does not equal a doctrine teaching three separate entities of human makeup. God joined our bodies with His spirit or breath, and we became living souls. Why does one verse putting these three words together equal new doctrine declaring three separate entities of human being?

Unless of course you want to add Holy Spirit to that list. This is the third element of human being unto salvation. Given of God alone unto salvation, and received only by the saved. No doubt this was the condition of humanity before the fall, which is only restored among those choosing salvation from it. We were created in the image of God, as you suggest concerning the Triune relation of God. We fell. Now we must choose that condition again, in and through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Joh 17:19  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT SOUL SLEEP ?
« Reply #128 on: Wed Jun 15, 2022 - 11:01:17 »
The Hebrew language is WAY more broad and descriptive than English. Making misinterpretation of the OUR Bible almost inevitable.
English has over 170K words.  The average 3rd-grader today has a vocabulary of about 10K words.

Biblical Hebrew only has about 8K words in total, so I wouldn't say its broader or more descriptive than English.

 

     
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