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Righteousness and Justification are spoken of together in Rom 5:18 the same as they are in Rom 3:21-24. So then, if perchance someone is fortunate to obtain the righteousness, then they will automatically obtain the justification that goes along with it.

FYI: Righteousness pertains to innocence, and Justification pertains to acquittal.

For example: former US President Donald Trump was recently accused of insurrection. His accusers in the Senate failed to convict him, i.e. the majority voted for his innocence and consequently he was acquitted.

This is what God has done for some of us; except that He has declared us all guilty rather than innocent (Rom 3:23). However; via our faith in Jesus' blood as an adequate propitiation for our sins, God granted us a gratuitous adjudication of innocence, and consequently an acquittal. It's all spelled out in Rom 3:21-28.

The first prayer I prayed that made some sense contained the words below:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words I'd ever spoken up to that time.

TALLY UPDATE: 946 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 57,619,914 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• Zech 1:5 . .Where are your forefathers now? And the prophets; do they live forever?

My own father is gone, and the great preacher Billy Graham; he's gone too. My favorite rock and roll guitar player during the years I was a teen-ager was Chuck Berry. He's gone. When I was a sophomore in high school, me and a buddy went to see "The Blob" starring a rather unknown actor at the time named Steve McQueen. He's gone. My eldest brother entered the Catholic priesthood and anon became a Friar. He's gone.

There's hardly a day goes by without someone passing away that at one time was very important to me; a constant reminder that nobody lives forever and neither will I. At my current age of 77, I'll be passing away not too long from now. Most of my life has already been lived and I'm in the home stretch. When I was a youngster, the horizon seemed forever far away; but now, looking at my wasting body, it seems I'm walking on the horizon's very edge.

TALLY UPDATE: 954 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 58,107,186 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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I would like it very much if my friends, associates, and loved ones down in Hades were allowed visitor days because after they're transferred to the lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15, I may never get to be with them ever again.

TALLY UPDATE: 957 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 58,289,913 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.

Dear freind~you will never visit them again unless they were children of God, then you WILL in the world to come.

Men like Billy Graham preached another gospel and believed in a present burning hellfire~his final state is left in the hands of God, not mine, yet I rather take my chance with a nobody, who believed in the scriptures concerning such doctrines. A popular preacher in this world is not so with God~per luke 16.

after they're transferred to the lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15,

Please consider just how irrational that sounds, and rightly so because it is against God's holy word.

The truth is, when the wicked died they know not anything they LIVED NOT again until the thousand years are finished and then and not until then, they will be resurrected to go before The Judge, and then sentence to the lake of fire which IS the second death where they shall perish forever per John 3:16; 2nd Peter 3:9; etc.

Bottom line, there is NO burning hellfire at this moment where the wicked are burning/suffering, only to be taken out and go before the judge, to be cast into the lake of fire. In Matthew 7 when the wicked are before the Lord, not ONE WORD is said to the Lord that they had already been suffering in hellfire~no, they just told him of all the good works that had done in his name in this world~you know the story.

I cannot open men's eyes to this truth, only God can, all we can do is to be a faithful witness of the truth. It's amazing that men will fight for a present burning hell that will be eternal and then thinks they know something of God's mercy, when in truth they know nothing. I cannot think of something crueler than making someone suffer for eternity with no relief. That's not the God I know. Besides, and greater~if Jesus paid the debt of our sin he SURELY did not do so by suffering ETERNALLY, but by DYING "ONLY", or perishing IF NOT that he was sinless he WOULD have~but being sinless, death had NO POWER OVER HIM, so he was resurrected~you know the story.

“Red, do you believe that the saved will live forever and ever when they die?” Red: “Why yes of course, the Bible SAYS so”.

I labor to believe the TESTIMONY of the scriptures:

John 11:25,26~"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Yes, Lord Jesus, I believe your words, that are life and truth to those that believe.

“Red, do you believe that the devil, and EVERYONE in the lake of fire will be tormented forever and ever? The Bible SAYS so”.

First things first~"Red, do you believe there is a burning hellfire NOW where the wicked go at death?"

No, there is NO burning hell where Adam's lost race who die in their sin go and are suffering NOW, only to be brought forth to the judgment of the last day, to be judged for their sins, ONLY to be cast in the lake of fire, that the holy scriptures God's very own testimony call the SECOND DEATH. This doctrine has too many flaws and certainty is NOT logical to any thinking person's mind~which I have learned that God's truth is very LOGICAL in its teaching of the truth, and is much like we do our affairs in this life. NO ONE suffers the penalty of breaking the law UNTIL they go before the judge to be judged in what we call DUE PROCESS of the law. God's ways are so much more perfect and righteous in judging sinners than man's. There is not one scripture that teaches us of a present burning hellfire where men are suffering in torments yet have life while doing so. It goes against so many scriptures.  The main one is: The wicked do not have eternal life in any sense whatsoever. Also, and very important, Jesus Christ paid the PENALTY for our sins and THAT penalty was death, period. The word of God does not say that the wages of sins is ETERNAL SUFFERING, which is nowhere to be found in the holy scriptures, only in the doctrine of man. 

Folks who believe in eternal suffering ARE IN ESSENCE denying the BIBLICAL atonement for sin that WAS PAID IN FULL by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ gave his LIFE for our sins, he DID NOT need to suffer for eternity, as a payment for our sins. And neither does a man need to suffer forever for his sins, they will LOSE the RIGHT to inherit eternal life in the world to come and will be cast into the lake of fire WHICH IS the second and final death where they shall perish. This is so important to consider and not pass over lightly just because you have never heard this from YOUR pulpit! There is so much more but must keep moving.

Red: “ No, I don’t believe a merciful God would allow torment forever and ever”

I do not believe it because I do not see it in the scriptures, also, it goes AGAINST his righteous judgment to punish sins~he does so with destroying his enemies with fire when he destroys this PRESENT world with ferment heat. So, WHERE IS THE LAKE OF FIRE? It will be when this present world is destroyed and will pass AWAY (PERISH) with fire on that day of God's wrath. Not too complicated if we follow the scriptures. If we follow man, then it gets very complicated and strange with no answers.

Funny how some believe HALF of what the Bible teaches because they find the other HALF so hard to understand. They allow their own understanding to take over and rule them instead of simply believing the truth.

I agree with that statement, so, WHO is guilty of that? That's why we are here to find out. 

Fish153~you know one reason above many that could be provided as to why I love the scriptures and the truths therein? Because when one finds the truth, then it is very simple to prove it and it does not take volumes of books to do so! I'm always amazed by just how small our bible is with ALL TRUTHS that are contained therein for man's to know everything that is needed to answer every question that may come up. May God be praise!

I would like it very much if my friends, associates, and loved ones down in Hades were allowed visitor days

The dead know not anything~that is those who die in their sins:

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6~"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun"

Psalms 115:17~"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

Those who died lost are in silence and will be until the resurrection at the last day.

An example is useful: Very briefly~ the dead who die in their sins are in the grave WAITING for their judgment appearance before THE JUDGE. They are NOT now being judged but WILL BE. Much like those who are arrested and put in jail waiting to go before the judge, so are the wicked who die in their sins~only they cannot be bailout, the grave/death is holding them until the resurrection~and then they will be resurrected to be brought before the Great White Throne Judgement, with the Books open, and THEN will be cast INTO the lake of fire (WHICH IS the second death!) where they SHALL PERISH along with the present earth per 2nd Peter 3, etc.

Red——

“Of how much sorer punishment shall he be thought worthy, who has trampled under foot the Son of God and insulted the Spirit of Grace”

If one is simply destroyed/annihilated in a lake of fire then ALL would be on even ground. You don’t get life so you are destroyed.
But NO. This verse infers there is an even greater punishment to a Christ rejecter than to someone in the past.

Brother, there are problem texts with every other truth/doctrine in the scriptures whereby we must reconcile before we can be 100% of what we are holding to is indeed the truth revealed in the scriptures. Here are the scriptures you quoted to me to give your position some credibility as to why you do not believe sinners will perish, or be destroyed as God's word declares they will be

Hebrews 10:29-31~"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I quoted more in order for us to understand exactly what the writer intended for us to understand. and exactly WHOM he is speaking of.

Brother, it is NOT a destruction but a sore punishment of a person who was made holy by the Spirit of God as a vessel to be used by Him, yet their life would not allow God to use them being unholy~so he had to judge them being his people, and we know if one is without chastisement then that person is a bastard and not a child of God, for he only corrects his people whom he loves. Brother~ CONTEXT-CONTEXT-CONTEXT drives the interpretation for us~not some preacher's opinion or a church doctrine. 

The writer is speaking of correcting God's children not that some people will suffer different degrees of punishment throughout eternity~ALL will receive the same sentence~the SECOND DEATH!

Brother, I for a few years believe just as you do, and even defended it, only to realize the problem texts on the other side had much more proof than I did and had to do a separate study to see which side had the truth, so I'm standing on the other side in which I was first taught. I have done this which just about every main doctrine I now hold to.

2nd Thessaloninia 2:6-8~"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

What does "everlasting destruction" mean to your understanding?

from the "presence" of the Lord

Again, HOW is this possible if they DO NOT PERISH/DESTROYED? For God is omnipresent, as you well know. 

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According to Matt 7:21-23, not everyone believing in Jesus will make it to safety.

I would not want to be one of them because they will surely be mocked cruelly without mercy by some of Hell's unruly crowd. I can just hear their taunts:

Hey Christian! How's about sharing the gospel with us ay? Tell us about the love of God and how that's working for ya. Awwwww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwwwwwww!!!

I'd rather end up in Hell as a Bernie Madoff than somebody believing in Jesus because ol' ponzi schemer Bernie is sure to be given far more respect down there than a bible-thumping Christian.

TALLY UPDATE: 960 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 58,472,640 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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The most familiar scripture in all of the word of God, yet almost NO ONE even considers the words PERISH that is in contrast with EVERLASTING!  What does the word PERISH mean to you.

It means to be cut of from God - NOT to cease to exist.

Red---

What's crazy about your interpretation is that fear of HELL is truly what drives some people to God, not fear of annihilation.
Jude says some are saved because of showing mercy, and some are saved by being "pulled from the fire". Through fear they come to repentance.

I personally did not come to Christ through fear of hell. But some do. It is God's intention. How many criminals would be SOOTHED by your interpretation Red? They can murder, steal, rape, and do all manner of terrible things thinking "I'm just going to be annihilated in the end anyway". Many already believe when they die that is it-- you just die. Teaching annihilation is almost the same thing. They will awaken one day, face judgment and God's anger, but just be "destroyed".

Many criminals would welcome that doctrine. But the thought they might be punished ETERNALLY is a different matter altogether.

I ask you once more. Will Satan be tormented forever and ever, or just annihilated? If forever and ever, why can't those same words apply to ALL who are thrown in the Lake of Fire?

If you truly believe Satan will just be annihilated your doctrine is heretical. The Bible clearly says His torment will be ETERNAL. Not destruction or annihilation but eternal concious torment.

We may not UNDERSTAND it. But we cannot REJECT it based on our own logic. God is MERCIFUL, but He is also JUST. This is very important to remember.

Red---

What's crazy about your interpretation is that fear of HELL is truly what drives some people to God, not fear of annihilation.

Brother, that's not so.

Luke 16:28-31~"For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

This parable in Luke 16 teaches us many great truths concerning LIFE NOW and ONCE death comes our eternal state is SEALED~prepartation for death is done WHILE WE ARE IN THE LAND OF THE LIVING, and in the scriptures contain ALL we need to prepare us for death.

Though this is so...... before one will even hear the scriptures they MUST be born of the Spirit and become SPIRITUAL MINDED, or, have a mind of a new man, not one of the flesh only~ so that he CAN hear, and prepare.

Romans 8:5-9~"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

These few scriptures makes it very clear that as long as one is IN THE FLESH, or not born of God, he CANNOT hear, or submit, or please God in any way possible. One MUST BE in the Spirit~or, have the Spirit of God IN THEM, (their new man) before they can please God. It is not that communicated.

What's crazy about your interpretation is that fear of HELL is truly what drives some people to God, not fear of annihilation.

Actually neither will, and before I came to Christ, I had NO FEAR, or at least biblically speaking, because of my love for sin was greater than any fear that I may thought I had!

Jude says some are saved because of showing mercy, and some are saved by being "pulled from the fire". Through fear they come to repentance.

Impossible for an unregenerate person to TRULY fear God before he has a new heart. Romans 3:10-18.

Many criminals would welcome that doctrine. But the thought they might be punished ETERNALLY is a different matter altogether.

It would not matter to a sinner still living in their sin, and as a matter of fact, MOST of the world have never considered these truths, NEVER. They are too busy serving their own sinful lust and truly have no desire for you or any person to tell them of any biblical truth, it is ALL FOOLISHNESS to them. You know brother, my own family have very little knowledge of what I BELEIVE, since they REFUSE to even ask, or more than that, they want you to keep your opinions of the word of God to yourself, they do not want to hear it, and truly refuse to discuss very much, sad but true. A prophet is not without honor save in his OWN house and among his own friends!  And this is most likely true of most of us. ALL of God's children are prophets in one sense.

I ask you once more. Will Satan be tormented forever and ever, or just annihilated? If forever and ever, why can't those same words apply to ALL who are thrown in the Lake of Fire?

He will be totally destroyed, he was created by God and can just as easily be destroyed by him as well along with all who followed him leaving their first estate. Unless you can prove me wrong, I will continue to hold to this~until someone can use the scriptures and show me the error of my ways. I'm been wrong before and can be again~as long as I live in this body of sin and death.

but He is also JUST. This is very important to remember.

This is true, so, why would God require more at the hands of man for the payment of his sins than he required at the hand of our surety for the payment of our sins? The ONLY payment (though great!) was the DEATH of Christ, NOT endless torment! His death was SUFFICIENT to paid for our sin debt was it not? Read Hebrews 7-10! THIS POINT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESS.

Forgive me for rushing this post a little. A lot to do today. RB

I have to disagree also Red that unbelievers cannot fear God. I believe the Holy Spirit can ENLIGHTEN them to their state. They will either run TOWARDS God as a result, OR RUN AWAY from God. The WORD is a TWO-EDGED SWORD.

Some are drawn to God as they are ENLIGHTENED by the Spirit to see His great love. Others are "pulled from the fire" after being ENLIGHTENED by the Spirit to SEE the JUSTICE OF GOD.

Can one be ENLIGHTENED and then run away, still unsaved? Hebrews 6:4-9 seems to infer this. But I believe the doctrine of Hell HAS caused some to run to God for mercy. I disagree with you. But God bless you brother!

I was a dam builder. Across the river deep and wide Where steel and water did collide. A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado, I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below. They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound, But I am still around; I'll always be around.

Sounds like they may have believed in reincarnnation~

The righteous have eternal life, they are still around with Christ, the wicked are NOT SO, they live NOT again until the thousand years are expired. Revelation 20:4-6

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• Gen 3:5 . . God knows well that when you eat of [the tree of the knowledge of good and evil] your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, who know good and evil.

Was the Serpent's prediction true? Yes; to a certain extent.

• Gen 3:22 . .Then the Lord God said: See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Apparently human life was created minus a conscience; which is likely the reason why some expositors refer to the time before the forbidden fruit incident as the age of innocence.

FAQ: Did Adam know it was wrong to taste the forbidden fruit? And if so, how did he know it was wrong without a conscience?

A: Right and wrong were irrelevant in the beginning. Adam's early life was governed by Big Brother oversight.

Had Adam's creator instructed him to eat human flesh, then the responsibility for his diet would've fallen upon God. In other words; God's sovereignty served as Adam's conscience. As to whether cannibalism is morally right and/or morally wrong wouldn't have been for Adam to decide. (cf. Acts 10:9-15)

NOTE: A Big Brother society isn't necessarily a bad form of government just so long as its bosses are good people; but when unscrupulous monsters like North Korea's Kim Jong-Un have the reins, then Big Brother societies are a hell on earth.

• Isa 48:17 . . I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is good and leads you along the paths you should follow.

TALLY UPDATE: 968 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 58,959,912 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• Gen 3:6-7 . . She took of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they perceived that they were naked; and they sewed together fig leaves and made themselves loincloths.

• Gen 3:11 . . He asked: Who told you that you were naked?

In other words: who said nudity is indecent? Where'd you get that idea?

Well; nobody had said nudity is indecent, nor even suggested that it's indecent-- the concept of a dress code was unheard of at that time. No; Adam just "felt" indecent. In other words; all of a sudden Adam's intuition was telling him that his appearance was unacceptable.

FAQ: If not from God, then whence did the first couple obtain an intuitive sense of propriety?

A: In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something to do with the first couple's moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it because the woman was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened.

She remained just as shameless in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that the woman began to feel exposed; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

Ruling out the fruit, and ruling out God , then we're left with but one alternative: the Serpent, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and ability to tamper with the human mind and body in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the forbidden fruit?

A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and righteousness would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

TALLY UPDATE: 969 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 59,020,821 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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FAQ: Was Adam's disobedience a Hell-worthy transgression?

A: No.

According to Gen 2:17 it was a death-worthy transgression rather than Hell-worthy. In other words; the proper penalty for Adam's mistake was simply his loss of immortality. (cf. Gen 3:19 and Gen 3:22)

NOTE: In order for death to resonate in Adam's understanding, it had to be death as he understood it in his day rather than the way that modern Bible thumpers construe it in their day. In other words: to Adam's way of thinking; death was physical rather than spiritual, i.e. normal and natural.

TALLY UPDATE: 972 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 59,203,548 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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The penalty for sin is not physical death; rather the penalty for sin is spiritual death.  Adam's physical death was a natural part of God's creation of the physical universe.  In the Garden he had access to the tree of life which would have fended off his physical death had God let him stay in the Garden (Gen 3:22).

It's both.The second death which God in his foreknowledge knew would be the result of those dying in their sins be it part of, or, no part of the natural part of God's creation.

Adam did die the very day he disobeyed~he experienced spiritual death~he lost that glorious image of being created in God's image with wisdom, knowledge, and understanding~Adam took on the image of the devil himself.............. of darkness, without understanding, and true holiness. One must be born again and recreated in the image of Jesus Christ before he can even see and understand these truths. The natural man like his father the devil, does not think he's that bad, but it is much worse than we have even begun to mention in this short post.

Brother, trust your health is improving since we last talked. RB

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• Eph 2:2-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so-called fallen nature spoken of in that Ephesians passage is inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after Eve was born; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to her by means of procreation.

The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe biological fathers propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent's handiwork all along.

How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't know, but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits, and chairing whole Sunday school departments, working with him as a sort of propaganda machine of unsuspecting accomplices.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the womb?

A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that that the ruler of the spirit world can do his dirty work on adults, but I'm guessing that for most of us, the tampering of our minds and bodies takes place in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

When Jesus told his opponents that they were the Devil's offspring (John 8:44) he wasn't just speaking in simile and/or metaphor; Jesus was speaking very close to the fact of the matter.

" For you are the children of your father the Devil, and you love to do the evil things he does."

There are Christians parroting that passage on and on, apparently oblivious to the truth of Eph 2:2-3 that John 8:44 applies to the core of their own natural being just the same as everybody else.

TALLY UPDATE: 976 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 59,447,184 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• 2Ki 8:26 . .Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

At that time, the land was divided into two kingdoms-- Israel (a.k.a. Samaria) in the north, and Judah in the south. (1Ki 11:26-40)

Apparently, marriages between the two royal families was supposed to foster peaceful relations between them. An unfortunate side effect was some pretty bad kings. Ahaziah was a bad king who walked not after David's ways, but after his northern kin's ways-- the house of Ahab.

• 2Chro 22:3-4 . . He also walked in the ways of the house of Ahab: for his mother was his counselor to do wickedly. Wherefore he did evil in the sight of The Lord like the house of Ahab: for they were his counselors after the death of his father-- to his destruction.

That's a perfect example how a man's in-laws can be his own worst enemies; and his mother too

Anyway, God saw to it that Ahaziah lost control over the south (2Chrn 22:7) which prompted his mother to do a terrible thing.

• 2Chro 22:10-23:1 . . But when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal of the house of Judah. But Jehoshabeath, the daughter of the king, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king's sons that were slain, and put him and his nurse in a bedchamber. So Jehoshabeath, the daughter of king Jehoram, the wife of Jehoiada the priest, (for she was the sister of Ahaziah,) hid him from Athaliah, so that she slew him not. And he was with them hid in the house of God six years: and Athaliah reigned over the land.

Joash was just an infant; and if not for his auntie Jehoshabeath's rapid response, that heartless monster Athaliah would've completely wiped out every last one of her own grandsons so she could grab the throne.

NOTE: It's not all that unusual for despots to murder their own kin so as to eliminate any and all possible challenges to their control. For example; North Korea's Kim Jong-Un ordered his uncle Jang Song-Thaek assassinated for that very reason.

TALLY UPDATE: 983 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 59,873,547 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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