Christian Forums and Message Board

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• Matt 10:39 . .Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

The biggest road block to radical feminists becoming effective Christian disciples is Jesus' gender. You see, at the heart of feminism, is the drive to be independent of males. Yet the very Lord and Master of Christianity, the supreme male in the universe; demands death to a woman's self interests, and submission to his domineering control. Good luck on that one ladies.

• Luke 14:26 . . If you want to be my follower you must love me more than your own father and mother, wife and children brothers and sisters-- yes, more than your own life. And you cannot be my disciple if you do take up your own cross and follow me.

In Jesus' day, crosses were for executions. So when Jesus told his disciples to "take up their own cross" it meant stifling their own way; viz: it was a call to abandon self interests, and follow The Master's leading.

• Rom 12:1-2 . .Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-- this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-- his good, pleasing and perfect will.

The bitter irony of it all is that God has delegated the task of humanity's final judgment to His son; viz: in the end, it will be a male who casts condemned radical feminist women into Hell and permanently ruins any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned radical feminist women will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive control over their lives. Isn't that what radical feminism is really all about anyway: male supremacy?

NOTE: For the benefit of those unaware: Radical feminism is somewhat different than standard feminism. The standard kind is basically concerned with equality, whereas the radical kind is basically chafed by male supremacy. The standard kind is typically peaceable with men, whereas the radical kind is driven by misandry, i.e. hatred for men.

TALLY UPDATE: 994 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 60,543,546 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• Rev 16:8-9 . .The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify Him.

• Rev 16:10-11 . .The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

You know what's missing in those two scenarios? The element of fright is missing. The recipients of those acts of God actually get angry and resentful instead of scared.

Back in the sixth chapter, people panic and actually pray to be buried alive rather than face the wrath of God. But apparently by the time of the sixteenth chapter, they're over it. Well; no surprise there.

The first time I heard of Jesus' return I got nervous because, at the time, I had a lot to answer for. But the nervousness soon passed, and I became indignant because I don't like being made afraid; so I can sort of understand the people's change of mood between the sixth chapter and the sixteenth.

NOTE: The people in the sixteenth chapter are accused of refusing to repent and glorify God. What might that mean? Well; I suggest it means that the sensible thing to do in a situation like theirs is to fully agree we deserve it; like this:

"And I heard a voice from the altar saying: Yes, Lord God Almighty, your punishments are true and just." (Rev 16:7)

TALLY UPDATE: 1,000 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 60,909,000 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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care to explain yourself?

No.
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• Rev 20:13 . . I saw the dead, and they were judged, every one of them

That verse says that "every one" of them were judged. Well; I don't know precisely how many every one will eventually entail, but let's say that it's the number of new arrivals in the update.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,003 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 61,091,727 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.

If each of those 61,091,727 judgments were to take an hour to complete, we'd be looking at 2,545,488 calendar days, i.e. 6,969 solar years; that's if the judging goes around the clock 24/7/365.

Just think of that. In only 1,003 days, enough cases have accumulated on our hypothetical docket to keep the great white throne busy a minimum of 69 and ⅝ centuries.

I once commented to a Christian friend about how long it will take for God to judge everybody. My friend responded: Well; he has plenty of time.
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• 1Kings 22:18-23 . . I saw Jehovah sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left. And Jehovah said: Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said this while another said that.

. . .Then a spirit came forward and stood before Jehovah and said: I will entice him.

. . . And Jehovah said to him: How?

. . . And he said; I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.

. . .Then He said: You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.

. . . Now therefore, behold, Jehovah has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and Jehovah has proclaimed disaster against you.

That is a very strange alliance. God actually recruited someone from the demon world to do some dirty work for Him: a black op, so to speak. That suggests to me that the demon world is neither totally useless nor totally in Satan's control; some are actually assets, which can be defined as something useful in an effort to foil or defeat an enemy: such as a piece of military equipment, a spy, or an assassin.

It's likely that God still manages some of His affairs like that even today when He wants certain individuals destroyed without getting His hands dirty. For example from post No.1 it's seen that some folks are on a road to Hell while others are on a road to something better, i.e. the few and the many. I really have to wonder if maybe some of those many on the road to Hell weren't talked into going that way by spirits recruited by God to do it for Him. Now that's scary. Can you just imagine the horror of being targeted like that and not aware of it! (cf. 2Thess 2:8-12)

TALLY UPDATE: 1,009 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 61,457,181 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• 1Cor 1:26 . . Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes

That verse is useful for illustrating that "few" doesn't always pertain to a handful, rather, it's simply a contrast between the majority and the minority, least vs most, large vs small, maximum vs minimum, ounces vs pounds, dimes vs dollars, feet vs yards, etc.

Some of the Bible's uses of the word "wise" don't always apply to folks born with a high IQ. Wisdom can also pertain to education; which doesn't make someone eo ipso smart, it just makes them informed; and if informed enough, they can even qualify as an expert witness in legal matters.

Anyway; education and/or a high IQ have their uses; but are insufficient when it comes to spiritual matters. In point of fact, those kinds of wisdom can actually be an impediment. Take for example Carl Sagan. Had his knowledge and his IQ been a spiritual advantage, then Carl would've stood on the side of intelligent design instead of opposing it.

It's tragic that Carl went to his grave with his curiosity and so many scientific questions about the cosmos unanswered, and to top it off, a day is coming when even Carl's pale blue dot will no longer be available for study.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." (Rev 21:1)

Can you imagine how delighted Carl would've been to explore Heaven's libraries where everything to know that can be known about the cosmos is stored? But alas, Carl will never find out because he was at best an agnostic, at worst an atheist.

» 1Cor 1:26 isn't sayng that no smart people become Christians; only that on the whole; the smart folk constitute a smaller percentage in comparison to the not so smart folk.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,016 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 61,883,544 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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As if hell isn't bad enough, people are in it as their selves; viz: they are never going to be free from their own personalities-- their phobias, their hang-ups, their inner conflicts, their memories, their anger, their hostility, their rivalries, their prejudice, their bias, their angst, their gender issues, their resentments, their regrets, their disappointments, their bitterness, their animosity, their passions, and their appetites.

Hell is even more of a hell than you might think because, having missed out on the regeneration about which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8, people take who they are right along with them down there.

Thus; suicide is not a good way to relieve depression. Depressed people and/or despondent people, take that low state of mind right along with them to the other side; and their sorrow will be even more intensified in fire when they realize that as bad as things were up here on the surface, their situation up here wasn't nearly as bad as their situation down below.

You can escape poor health via death, you can escape credit card debt, you can escape an abusive spouse, you can escape taxes, you can escape a physical handicap, you can escape pimples, you can escape a bully, you can escape despots and tyrants, you can escape a life of neither promise nor future, you can escape prison, you can escape grinding poverty, and you can escape the Mafioso; but nobody can escape themselves.

You've made this day a special day, by just your being you.
There's no person in the whole world like you;
And I like you just the way you are.
Fred Rogers, a.k.a. Mister Rogers

Well; I appreciate Fred's work with children; but the fact of the matter is: there are grown-ups out there who do not feel special nor do they particularly like the way they are; and that's never going to change should they end up in the wrong place when they leave this life.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,019 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 62,066,271 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• 1Cor 3:22-23 . . Everything belongs to you-- Paul and Apollos and Peter --the whole world and life and death; the present and the future. Everything belongs to you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

People incarcerated in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully aware of all they've lost. Many are doubtless aware of at least their loss of immortality; but I'm not so sure they know about the extent of their loss because not even that many Christians are aware of all they've gained by their position in Christ.

1Cor 3:22-23 refers to Rom 8:17 where believers are depicted by a Greek word that pertains to heirs in common, i.e. joint-heirs. Regular heirs each receive an individually specified portion of a benefactor's estate whereas heirs in common each take possession of the whole shebang, i.e. whatever the Father bequeathed His son, He bequeathed everyone in His son.

For example: supposing a benefactor's estate totals 60 acres of land plus $10,000 in a bank account, and he left it all to six heirs in common. In that situation; the heirs are corporately one beneficiary instead of six; viz: all six inherit the 60 acres and the $10k as if each one were the only heir.

The extent of Jesus' inheritance is astonishing. It encompasses not only all that is in Heaven, but also whatever pertains to the new cosmos spoken of in Isa 66:17, 2Pet 3:13, and Rev 21:1; and I don't know what else.

•  John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

• John 16:15 . . All things that the Father has are mine

• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come

Fortunately Jesus has been appointed the estate's chief executive officer because I don't think anybody else among men could ever be competent enough to manage something so complex and so vast.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,025 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 62,431,725 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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I once heard an interviewed US Navy SEAL explain how that if SEALs were to play hop scotch, it would turn violent because they don't like to lose.

There's a humorous incident depicted in Dante's Inferno where these two guys, who were bitter rivals in life, are quarreling over who deserves to be in Hell more than the other.

Well; I think it goes without saying that people competitive to the bone are not the kind of folk with whom God prefers to associate.

• Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,031 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 62,797,179 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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Red--
There are angels chained in the abyss right now who will be unchained, tried, and then tossed into the Lake of fire. Your argument is a bad one. And what do you do with 1 Peter 3:18,19? Jesus preached to "the spirits in prison"?

They are conscious or Jesus wouldn't have preached to them. There is an area where damned souls are being held until Judgment. At Judgment they will be shown WHY they are in torment. Once they have NO ARGUMENT and it is proved to them they DESERVE their fate, they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
To teach there is no eternal hell is HERESY, plain and simple. The Bible clearly teaches it. Jesus clearly taught it too. Don't you think there is a REASON Jehovah's Witnesses teach there is no hell, contrary to Christian doctrine? Because they have been DECEIVED. Annihilation is a doctrine of demons, contrary to what God says in the Bible. I am very surprised you accept that doctrine.

Red--
There are angels chained in the abyss right now who will be unchained, tried, and then tossed into the Lake of fire. Your argument is a bad one. And what do you do with 1 Peter 3:18,19? Jesus preached to "the spirits in prison"?

Fish, I would never make a statement or ask that I had not first know the answer~no lawyer worth his salt would ever ask a question that he did not know the answer.

1st Peter 3:18-20~ "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I quoted more scriptures for CONTEXT is so important! Noah preached unto the SAME SPIRITS! And so has many children of God since the world began.

There are many who theorize that these passages speak of a type of purgatory, the spiritual under-world or intermediate place of the imprisoned lost. However, these theories are contrary to all that the holy scriptures declares about sin, judgment, and life after death for the wicked. The Bible is perfectly clear that whatever spiritual condition a person dies in (whether saved or unsaved), that is the condition in which he will stand before God and be judged. There is no possibility for a second chance at redemption after death. So all of the many variations of this doctrine are decidedly unbiblical.

Once a person leaves this earth in death, his chance for redemption is over. There is no remembrance of him in the grave, and on the last day (John 12:48) when he is raised up to be paid according to what he has done while he was in this world. There is no Spirit of Christ preaching to any unsaved person after physical death, for death is appointed to every single one of us, and after that the judgment (Hebrews 9:27) of God. By the same token, when we receive salvation in this world through the work of Christ, we are no longer under judgment to be condemned for sin and are judged as perfect before God. There is nothing in the Holy Scriptures that would even imply that there is a second chance at salvation after death. This divine truth is also made abundantly clear in the parable of Lazarus. Christ explains this parable saying there is a great gulf fixed (Luke 16:26) where it is impossible for the redeemed to pass from one side to the side of the unsaved who died, or those who died unsaved to pass over to the side of the redeemed. Thus if anyone dies unsaved, that is the condition that they will remain in. It is impossible to preach to those who have died in the flesh~ when they were alive in the flesh they were DEAD in trespasses and sin and that did not serve them in the least to help to know the truth.

How did Jesus preach to the spirits in prison? These can be difficult passages, but we can begin to understand what it actually means if we follow carefully what it actually says with no preconceived ideas about the interpretation and "in the light of the rest of the Bible." Because the Bible was not written in a vacuum, nor was it subject to any personal opinions or private interpretation of the saints of old. Thus it is not subject to our private interpretation or personal opinions today. Our interpretation and opinion should be subject to it, because every Word is divinely inspired.

When I am asked, "How did Christ preach to the spirits in prison," the obvious answer seems to me to be "exactly as the passage itself declares." That, by being put to death in the flesh, but quickened or made alive by the Spirit, Christ by the same Spirit that quickened him form the dead, the same Spirit preached THROUGH him while he was alive to spirits in prison. In other words, it is declaring that it was by Christ's death in the flesh and resurrection by the Spirit, that He and his servants testify to the disobedient. It is a Biblical fact that before we were saved, we were spirits held captive or prisoners by Satan. Christ was manifested in the flesh specifically to set us free from that captivity. Knowing this truth is now a matter of simply defining what we read "by biblical terms," rather than by speculation, tradition, or assumptions.

1st John 4:1~"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

In Biblical terms, what are these spirits that the saints are told not to believe? Clearly they are the spirits in prison. In other words, they are those people who are held in spiritual captivity so that they are in bondage and servitude to Satan. They are people who are unsaved whom the saints are not to believe. The question we should be asking concerning the actual text of Peter is, How does Christ preach or declare the gospel to someone by His death and resurrection? Is it not through the witness of His Spirit? And is that not exactly what 1st Peter says in the text? The death He suffered was on the cross, and the punishment He endured was the wrath of God as He was laden with our sins (2nd Corinthians 5:21). The wages He paid was that which was due for our sins. Thus when Christ was resurrected, He was raised up without those sins. This act of sacrifice is what set our spirits free. In the real sense, as the second man (the second Adam) wherein we were dead, we were resurrected with him and delivered from our prison house. These spirits that were in prison, and that were witnessed the gospel through His Spirit, are the election.

1st Peter 3:21,22~"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The Spirit of God uses the gospel of Christ to deliver us from the power of Satan wherein we were held captive by him~the same gospel is preached unto other spirits in prison, yet WITHOUT the Spirit of God quickening us and opening the doors of the prison we were in we would never be able to escape. In other words, it takes the SAME POWER that raised up Christ to raise up us from the captivity wherein we were held.

Ephesians 1:19,20~"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

When Christ was put to death he died as a SINNER, he was put to death with our sins ON HIM, thereby, he was not living after he died, he had to be resurrected before he begins to live again! He died not as God, but as MAN carrying our sins upon him! So, it would be impossible for him to be preaching to literal dead souls as so many vainly suppose. Believing in that doctrine affects so many other doctrines! You might want to re-think your position.

There are angels chained in the abyss right now

Let me do a different post on this.

Red--
My point was that God has angels chained in the abyss right now whom he will eventually throw into the Lake of Fire. If he will do this to angels, why not men also? That is the whole point of Peter's reminder isn't it? If he will do this to angels, what makes you think he won't do the same to PUNY MEN??

Red--
My point was that God has angels chained in the abyss right now whom he will eventually throw into the Lake of Fire. If he will do this to angels, why not men also? That is the whole point of Peter's reminder isn't it? If he will do this to angels, what makes you think he won't do the same to PUNY MEN??

Brother read my posts~NO where did I say he would not cast men into the lake of fire~of course he will~ the lake of fire IS the second death. Also, angels are NOT now in chains in a burning hell~again read what I posted and refute THAT. There is A DAY APPOINTED by God to judge both angels and men that day is yet in the future~now BOTH are in chains in a true biblical sense! Only the angels with a much severe judgment.

Red--There you go "spiritualizing" again. There ARE angels literally imprisoned with chains right now.

Not spiritualizing, but using scriptures to make SENSE with what is said. Please quickly consider a couple of things.

How can a spirit be literally chained? Impossible, so we must look into the scriptures for a biblical answer, and if you read my post honestly with an unbiased heart I think you should find your answer, AT LEAST be on track to finding it~ and maybe, even adding more...... once a person refuses his own bias answers to God's truth~I have seen it happened in the past more than once with MYSELF and others~ of scriptures coming together by mutual parties adding their studies.

Also, why some angels as you say chained in the abyss right now"~(wherever that place may be, the scriptures are totally silenced on such as place)....and others are NOT?

Without getting into a study on evil spirits~sufficent to say now that they indwell and work in the children of disobedience; they have a house in people whom they prefer, but CAN live in animals~can go from house to house, or return back to their favorite house and taking some of their evil comrades with them. They dwell in the heavens~they have a rank among them, etc etc. So having such power among them...... WHO IS CHAINED in "your abyss"? Satan certainly is not, yet he and all others ARE as Peter said: IN CHAINS OF DARKNESS~"darkness" describing the chains they ARE IN, not with! In chains of darkness speaks of their depravity and ignorance that they are now in, just like fallen men who took on the image of Satan who deceived Eve into sinning and Adam following Eve.

More could said but enough for now. We could start a thread on this study of fallen angels.

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Years ago it wasn't unusual to be called a religious fanatic for believing the Genesis account of the creation of Man. Well; recently somebody online didn't call me a fanatic; instead they called me a bigot because I stand for the Bible's physical gender designations and refuse to accept the new political designations, e.g. transgender and non binary.

Do they seriously think that the One who intelligently designed the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --won't have the last word on this matter of gender identity?

• Ps 2:1-5 . . Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against The Lord, and against His anointed, saying: Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them in His sore displeasure.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,036 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 63,101,724 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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Years ago it wasn't unusual to be called a religious fanatic for believing the Genesis account of the creation of Man. Well; recently somebody online didn't call me a fanatic; instead they called me a bigot because I stand for the Bible's physical gender designations and refuse to accept the new political designations, e.g. transgender and non binary.

Do they seriously think that the One who intelligently designed the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --won't have the last word on this matter of gender identity?

They do not think~they are void of any spiritual light. But God will have the last laugh be sure of that.

Proverbs 1:26-32~I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them."

Amen to the word of God.

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• 1Cor 1:26 . . Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes

That verse is useful for illustrating that "few" doesn't always pertain to a handful, rather, it's simply a contrast between the majority and the minority, least vs most, large vs small, maximum vs minimum, ounces vs pounds, dimes vs dollars, feet vs yards, etc.

Some of the Bible's uses of the word "wise" don't always apply to folks born with a high IQ. Wisdom can also pertain to education; which doesn't make someone eo ipso smart, it just makes them informed; and if informed enough, they can even qualify as an expert witness in legal matters.

Anyway; education and/or a high IQ have their uses; but are insufficient when it comes to spiritual matters. In point of fact, those kinds of wisdom can actually be an impediment. Take for example Carl Sagan. Had his knowledge and his IQ been a spiritual advantage, then Carl would've stood on the side of intelligent design instead of opposing it.

It's tragic that Carl went to his grave with his curiosity, and so many scientific questions about the cosmos, unanswered; and to top it off, a day is coming when even Carl's pale blue dot will no longer be available for study.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." (Rev 21:1)

Can you imagine how delighted Carl would've been to explore Heaven's libraries where everything to know that can be known about the cosmos is stored? But alas, Carl will never find out because he was at best an agnostic, at worst an atheist.

» 1Cor 1:26 isn't sayng that no smart people become Christians; only that on the whole; the smart folk constitute a smaller percentage in comparison to ordinary people.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,042 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 63,467,178 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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• 2Cor 5:11 . . Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men

The Greek word translated "knowing" means to know firsthand, viz: by experience rather than by education and/or instruction.

In other words; there were incidents at various times in the lives of Paul and his contemporaries when God frightened them, i.e. scared 'em out of their wits. Well; there's nothing like a good old fashioned close encounter of a third kind to convince even the most resistant skeptics; and Paul's history attests that his was a really stubborn case.

Of course if any of us were to claim to "know" the terror of the Lord, we'd be singled out as kooks and crackpots; but for some folk, fear is the only persuasion that works.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,048 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 63,832,632 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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