GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Heretical Hymns  (Read 9069 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Heretical Hymns
« on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 12:34:36 »
What hymns are ones that folks consider to have theological incorrect lyrics?

Or that are heretical?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Heretical Hymns
« on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 12:34:36 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11856
  • Manna: 345
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 14:10:01 »
I'll Fly Away immediately springs to mind.  And it's such a good tune, too. =-/

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 14:10:01 »

Robert Pate

  • Guest
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 14:16:47 »
What hymns are ones that folks consider to have theological incorrect lyrics?

Or that are heretical?

My favorite hymnal is  "The Solid Rock"  Written by Edward Mote in 1832.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 14:16:47 »

Offline Jon-Marc

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4200
  • Manna: 163
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 15:18:43 »
I'll Fly Away immediately springs to mind.  And it's such a good tune, too. =-/

Can you point out the words in "I'll Fly Away" that are wrong? I have found unscriptural words in songs, but I don't remember any in that song. One that comes to mind is "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." It has the words "prayer wheel" in it.  A prayer wheel is a little wheel-like thing that is held in the hand and has prayers written on it. It is spun, and with each revolution the prayers on it supposedly go up to heaven.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 15:18:43 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11856
  • Manna: 345
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 15:57:49 »
I'll Fly Away immediately springs to mind.  And it's such a good tune, too. =-/

Can you point out the words in "I'll Fly Away" that are wrong? I have found unscriptural words in songs, but I don't remember any in that song. One that comes to mind is "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." It has the words "prayer wheel" in it.  A prayer wheel is a little wheel-like thing that is held in the hand and has prayers written on it. It is spun, and with each revolution the prayers on it supposedly go up to heaven.
"I'll fly away."
"To a home on God's celestial shore."

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 15:57:49 »



Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:32:50 »
I'll Fly Away immediately springs to mind.  And it's such a good tune, too. =-/


Can you point out the words in "I'll Fly Away" that are wrong? I have found unscriptural words in songs, but I don't remember any in that song. One that comes to mind is "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." It has the words "prayer wheel" in it.  A prayer wheel is a little wheel-like thing that is held in the hand and has prayers written on it. It is spun, and with each revolution the prayers on it supposedly go up to heaven.


Interesting.  I didn't remember that phrase in that song.  So, I Googled it, and sure enough here it is:

Now let us have a little talk with Jesus
Let us tell Him all about our troubles
He will hear our faintest cry
He will answer by and by
Now when you feel a little prayer wheel turning
And you know a little fire is burning...



But, that isn't the way I know the song.  The version I grew up with has different words there.  This is how I know it:

Now let us have a little talk with Jesus
Let us tell Him all about our troubles
He will hear our faintest cry
He will answer by and by
Now when you feel a little prayerful yearning
As your heart unto heaven is turning...



So, someone else apparently had problems with the original version and actually changed the words.  I know of other songs that have lyrical differences depending on the songbook, for that same reason.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:32:50 »

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:40:21 »
I'll Fly Away immediately springs to mind.  And it's such a good tune, too. =-/


Can you point out the words in "I'll Fly Away" that are wrong? I have found unscriptural words in songs, but I don't remember any in that song. One that comes to mind is "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." It has the words "prayer wheel" in it.  A prayer wheel is a little wheel-like thing that is held in the hand and has prayers written on it. It is spun, and with each revolution the prayers on it supposedly go up to heaven.


Interesting.  I didn't remember that phrase in that song.  So, I Googled it, and sure enough here it is:

Now let us have a little talk with Jesus
Let us tell Him all about our troubles
He will hear our faintest cry
He will answer by and by
Now when you feel a little prayer wheel turning
And you know a little fire is burning...



But, that isn't the way I know the song.  The version I grew up with has different words there.  This is how I know it:

Now let us have a little talk with Jesus
Let us tell Him all about our troubles
He will hear our faintest cry
He will answer by and by
Now when you feel a little prayerful yearning
As your heart unto heaven is turning...



So, someone else apparently had problems with the original version and actually changed the words.  I know of other songs that have lyrical differences depending on the songbook, for that same reason.


Any songs you grew up with that WERE original versions?   ::pondering::

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:49:08 »
How about this one?

My God and I

My God and I go in the field together;
We walk and talk as good friends should and do;
We clasp our hands, our voices ring with laughter;
My God and I walk through the meadow's hue.
We clasp our hands, our voices ring with laughter;
My God and I walk through the meadow's hue.



I suppose we could be laughing and skipping through the fields and cracking jokes like good buddies with the Almighty God one day.  



But, it seems more Biblical to me that we'll more likely be gathering around the great white throne, singing, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain."

Sometimes, you just have to take a grain of salt with the sentiment the song expresses.  ::wink::

In this case, I think the idea is a renewed fellowship with God.

marc

  • Guest
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:49:51 »
Hey, at camp last month the kids were told that JALTWJ was a "bad" song because we don't pray to Jesus!

And later that night the songleader led it in chapel, leading to much (well-deserved) confusion.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:49:51 »

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:52:26 »
Any songs you grew up with that WERE original versions?   ::pondering::

I reckon there were some.  But, there are several songs I can think of that were changed in the books I grew up with, where I've only recently become aware of the original lyrics.

Offline Imabear

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3154
  • Manna: 165
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:53:33 »
How about this one?

My God and I

My God and I go in the field together;
We walk and talk as good friends should and do;
We clasp our hands, our voices ring with laughter;
My God and I walk through the meadow's hue.
We clasp our hands, our voices ring with laughter;
My God and I walk through the meadow's hue.



I suppose we could be laughing and skipping through the fields and cracking jokes like good buddies with the Almighty God one day. 



But, it seems more Biblical to me that we'll more likely be gathering around the great white throne, singing, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain."

Sometimes, you just have to take a grain of salt with the sentiment the song expresses.  ::wink::

In this case, I think the idea is a renewed fellowship with God.
It reminds me of the song... I come to the garden alone... and he walks with me and he talks with me...

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 16:56:41 »
It reminds me of the song... I come to the garden alone... and he walks with me and he talks with me...

That reminds me of the story about the kid who was asked what God's name was.

"Andy!" replied the child.

"Andy?! Why do you say that?"

"Because the song says, 'Andy walks with me.  Andy talks with me.  Andy tells me I am His own!'"

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11856
  • Manna: 345
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 18:03:17 »
That reminds me of the story about the kid who was asked what God's name was.

"Andy!" replied the child.

"Andy?! Why do you say that?"

"Because the song says, 'Andy walks with me.  Andy talks with me.  Andy tells me I am His own!'"
My grandmother relates to me that as a child, her favorite hymn was:

Glad Lee, the Cross-Eyed Bear.

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 18:12:24 »
I also, as a kid, wondered what that rose was doing in the gravy.

"Up from the gravy, a rose."  ::doh::

Offline Serenity432001

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7264
  • Manna: 488
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 20:02:02 »
I sang Bringing in the sheets at the top of my lungs as a kid.   I would also look directly at my brother and sing loudly,  Are you sewing the seeds of the king dumb brother. ::smile::

Offline sopranette

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3775
  • Manna: 107
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #15 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 06:11:25 »
Ave Maria....sung that one a lot growing up.  Very beautiful, too.

love,

Sopranette

BornToReign

  • Guest
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 07:15:54 »
I Got Shoes.
 
I got shoes, you got shoes, all Gods children got shoes, when I get to heaven gonna put on my shoes gonna walk all over Gods heaven.

I got wings, you got wings, all Gods children got wings, when I get to heaven gonna put on my wings gonna fly all over Gods heaven.

I got a crown, you got a crown, all Gods children got a crown, when I get to heaven gonna put on my crown gonna shine all over Gods heaven.

I got a harp, you got a harp, all Gods children got a harp, when I get to heaven gonna play on my harp gonna play all over Gods heaven.

everybody talkin bouta heaven ainta goin there.


Offline Dennis

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3869
  • Manna: 116
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 11:28:48 »
I have shared this before here I think.  My now 29 year old daughter used to love "Victory in Jesus," and would sing it loudly from the back of the shopping cart as her mother pushed her through the store. But her version included the following:

". . . He socked me and bopped me with his redeeming blood,

. . . He punched me to victory beneath the cleansing flood."

Offline Cliftyman

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3917
  • Manna: 44
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 12:48:53 »
Quote
Can you point out the words in "I'll Fly Away" that are wrong? I have found unscriptural words in songs, but I don't remember any in that song. One that comes to mind is "Just a Little Talk with Jesus." It has the words "prayer wheel" in it.  A prayer wheel is a little wheel-like thing that is held in the hand and has ayers written on it. It is spun, and with each revolution the prayers on it supposedly go up to heaven.

Thats the evil Baptist version (I'm being sarcastic by the way).  I didn't learn it until my wife and I met.  We grew up singing the prayerful yearning version.

We also sang "when the saved get to heaven".... instead of "when we all get to heaven"... I guess we wanted to stress that only the most legalistic pharisees would make it through the narrow gate and that everyone should struggle with their faith based on their deeds with great fear and tribulation.

Wow I'm glad I'm not part of that sect anymore....

Offline Jon-Marc

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4200
  • Manna: 163
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 13:40:38 »
I heard about a little boy who when he sang "Victory in Jesus", sang the words "He punched me to victory" instead of "He plunged me to victory."

Offline James Rondon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 19760
  • Manna: 1746
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #20 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 13:53:44 »
When we sing the song "Jesus Loves Me", I always sing the part that says "I will try to live for thee" as "I will live my life for thee".

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #21 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:02:19 »
When we sing the song "Jesus Loves Me", I always sing the part that says "I will try to live for thee" as "I will live my life for thee".

Actually, the way it was in the older books (the way I always knew it anyway) was "I will henceforth live for Thee." 

But, I know at least one newer book has "I will try to live for Thee" instead.

I'm not sure what the original was.

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #22 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:07:28 »
What about the song "None of Self and All of Thee"?

The first verse says "All of self and none of Thee"... then it continues on through "Some of self and some of Thee."  The last verse ends up as "None of self and all of Thee."


Oh, the bitter pain and sorrow
That a time could ever be,
When I proudly said to Jesus,
“All of self, and none of Thee.

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #23 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:10:36 »
What about the song "None of Self and All of Thee"?

The first verse says "All of self and none of Thee"... then it continues on through "Some of self and some of Thee."  The last verse ends up as "None of self and All of Thee."


Oh, the bitter pain and sorrow
That a time could ever be,
When I proudly said to Jesus,
“All of self, and none of Thee.

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #24 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:15:31 »
Was she talking about reliance on baptism?   ::eatingpopcorn:

Ouch!  ::doh::

I don't think the issue was about salvation.  It was more a question of how we live our lives.  Are we truly living totally ALL for Him and NONE for ourselves?  That was her point, I think.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11856
  • Manna: 345
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #25 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:33:04 »
What about the song "None of Self and All of Thee"?

Higher than the highest heaven,
Deeper than the deepest sea,
Lord, Thy love at last has conquered:
“None of self, and all of Thee.

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #26 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:34:58 »
What about the song "None of Self and All of Thee"?

Higher than the highest heaven,
Deeper than the deepest sea,
Lord, Thy love at last has conquered:
“None of self, and all of Thee.”
None of self, and all of Thee,
None of self, and all of Thee,
Lord, Thy love at last has conquered:
“None of self, and all of Thee.”
[/i]

...I remember one lady we used to go to church with who didn't like the song because, she said, it was a lie (I guess particularly the last verse).  At least, maybe we're being a little dishonest in proclaiming "none of self" and "all of Thee" if our lives are anything other than that.  Maybe she had a point there. 

The song still contains a powerful message though.
I don't understand the problem.  It's talking about an ideal, right?  Not something that's already happened.

Reliance on self is about water baptism.

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #27 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:49:31 »
Reliance on self is about water baptism.

Quite harassing us, G.  ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #28 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 14:51:55 »
What about the song "None of Self and All of Thee"?

Higher than the highest heaven,
Deeper than the deepest sea,
Lord, Thy love at last has conquered:
“None of self, and all of Thee.

marc

  • Guest
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #29 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 15:17:47 »
Sounds like what one lady at church has said about "Where he Leads I'll Follow" or "Anywhere With Jesus" or some such song (I really don't remember the specific one).  She said that it sounds good, but to be completely honest, she's not willing to go absolutely anywhere or do absolutely anything.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11856
  • Manna: 345
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 16:41:05 »
Sounds like what one lady at church has said about "Where he Leads I'll Follow" or "Anywhere With Jesus" or some such song (I really don't remember the specific one).  She said that it sounds good, but to be completely honest, she's not willing to go absolutely anywhere or do absolutely anything.
Now THAT sounds like a problem, though I can't say there aren't certain things I wouldn't have a hard time doing.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30937
  • Manna: 636
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #31 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 17:10:46 »

Offline WileyClarkson

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4288
  • Manna: 162
  • Gender: Male
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #32 on: Tue Jul 29, 2008 - 20:54:44 »
One Sunday evening I was leading singing at the small church we attended for about 20 years.  I had chosen several songs  that had the idea of God talking to the person singing.  They were "My God and I" and "I come to the Garden alone."  I like those two songs and l led them on a regular because it seemed, from my position in front of the auditorium that everyone liked them when I led them.  After the evening worship, I started toward the back and I was stopped by an 85 year old lady who was the mother of one of the members and was visiting.  She asked me why I led those usscriptural songs.  It caught me kind of off guard so I asked her what songs was she referring to and what parts of the songs did she consider unscriptural.  She told me the two songs listed above and then told me that they were unscriptural because they say say "He walks with me and talks with me"  and "we walked and talked".  She then told me that God doesn't talk to anyone anymore and to imply that he does is is the same thing as preaching a false gospel.  I popped back at her "How can you say that because God talks to me!  Doesn't he talk to you?"  When I said that her jaw dropped a little and she had this strange look on her face.  I don't think she liked my answer!  Well, needless to say, I never saw that little old lady in worship ever again, even  though her daughter lived about a mile from my house and occasionally attended our worship services.

Two other songs that have been changed over the years are "Come Thou Almighty King" and  "Holy, Holy, Holy".  The referral to Trinity in these songs was removed and over all was inserted. 

Offline Imabear

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3154
  • Manna: 165
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #33 on: Thu Jul 31, 2008 - 22:34:35 »
Not a hymn, but... We sang this in church a few weeks back. 
We had a guest speaker that week.  He said he wouldn't sing the chorus of this song, because do you know what happens when people "see" God?
He also mentioned a couple other songs he wouldn't sing for similar reasons.

In the secret, in the quiet place
In the stillness you are there.
In the secret,
In the quiet hour I wait
Only for you
Cause, I want to know you more

Chorus:
I want to know you
I want to hear your voice
I want to know you more
I want to touch you
I want to see your face
I want to know you more

I am reaching for the highest goal
That I might receive the prize
Pressing onward, pushing every
Hindrance aside
Out of my way
Cause, I want to know you more

Offline Jon-Marc

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4200
  • Manna: 163
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Heretical Hymns
« Reply #34 on: Fri Aug 01, 2008 - 10:57:21 »
We sing songs year after year and don't pay any attention to the words. A few times after singing a certain song for years, I would realize that some of the words were not scriptural, or a pastor would point it out to me. Also, I will not sing anything that has improper grammar in it--like "I Will Rise." It has Jesus saying using "ain't", and I refuse to believe that He would use something isn't even a word. That song actually has a double negative in it--"ain't no", and I despise double negatives; they're improper grammar.

"Isn't" is a contraction of "is not." "Aren't" is a contraction of "are not." From what two words do you get "ain't"? Since when is "ai" a word--except in the Bible where it's the name of a city? Song writers these days take too many liberties with the English language in writing songs--anything to make it rhyme or to make it more "modern". Just because most people are uneducated or can't speak or write proper grammar is no reason to write it in Christian songs.