Author Topic: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021  (Read 219 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online NyawehNyoh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
  • Manna: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's Wrong All The Time
Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« on: Sun Jan 24, 2021 - 20:37:27 »
.
One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ponder: How is it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God during all that? Why didn't He step in and do something to protect His chosen people?

To find an answer to that question one need look no further than Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In other words: the Jews, as a people, brought it on themselves in accordance with the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end of the agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only unethical, but also uncivil. Long story short: the covenant requires Him to lower the boom on His people for failure to honor their end of the agreement; and you can see the extent of the damage for yourself in the scripture references in the above paragraph.

There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated to fulfill too; so the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz: compliance with the covenant accrues blessings; while breaching the covenant accrues curses. Anybody who has read the Old Testament can attest that God came down on His own people quite often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite cruelly. The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 list are very disturbing; and when examining them, one cannot help but realize they're reading a synopsis of the Jews' history.

The status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also its disadvantages; viz: the status of God's chosen people is not something to be proud of; but rather, something to fear because the covenant's God is not the kind of judge influenced by favoritism. No; if anything, Moses' people run the risk of being judged even more severely than Gentiles because of their privileged position and the insider's knowledge they were given of His likes and dislikes.

Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. (cf. Luke 12:42-48)
_

Christian Forums and Message Board

Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« on: Sun Jan 24, 2021 - 20:37:27 »

Online NyawehNyoh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
  • Manna: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's Wrong All The Time
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:36:38 »
.
FAQ: Is the world supposed to believe it was the Jews' own fault that they were rounded up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their wealth, and their possessions, enslaved, starved, deprived of basic human necessities, tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments, worked to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions?

A: If the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God is binding; then yes; the Jews, as a people, are definitely at fault for what happened to them. There's really no mystery to this: it's all laid out in black and white at Lev 26:14-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.

FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He stood by and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken in it. In other words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda as an opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His people to the wolves like He did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

The covenant Moses' people agreed upon with God obligates Him to protect them from misfortune when they're compliant with it; but the same time the covenant also obligates God to lower the boom on them when they're not compliant with it. If there is only one good thing to come out of the Holocaust is that it proves to the world that God is reliable, viz: He can be trusted to honor His commitments.
_

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15332
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:40:11 »
One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ponder: How is it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God during all that?
Some of the ultra orthodox have an answer for that that most Jews and most Christians do not want to hear:  that close to 25% of the approx. 6 million Jews who died at the hands of the Germans in WW2 were Jewish believers in Jesus. 

Those orthodox consider that a great sin that God punished the entire nation for. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:40:11 »

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15332
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:43:09 »
BTW, Yom HaShoah, or Holocaust Memorial Day,  will be Friday, April 9 2021.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:43:09 »

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15332
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:47:45 »
Quote
FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?
There was about another 6 million non combatants who died along with the 6 million Jews.  the Germans also killed "collaborators" who showed mercy to the Jews, to real Christians like Dietrich Bonhoffer who spoke out against the evils of Nazism, to any other political dissidents, to the Roma (Gypsies) and to the homosexuals. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 05:47:45 »



Online NyawehNyoh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
  • Manna: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's Wrong All The Time
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 21:55:08 »
.
FAQ: Supposing there is no one to blame for the loss of Jewish life in the Holocaust but the Jews themselves? If so; then how many of them would've had to breach the covenant to put them all in so much danger?

A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For example the incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The insubordination of one insignificant Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's army in battle. As a result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and ultimately capital punishment was inflicted upon not only the insubordinate man himself, but also his sons and his daughters. God's accusation? "Israel has sinned" (Josh 7:11)

See that? God didn't accuse the perpetrator; no; He accused Israel. In other words: in that particular incident; the sin of just one Jew under Joshua's command became the sin of all the Jews under his command; viz: the whole kit and caboodle-- lock, stock, and barrel; and Israel could proceed no further with its conquest of Canaan until the guilty man was executed.

And then there's this incident:

2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.

Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them for what Saul did; and that posthumously.

In another Old Testament incident; God lowered the boom on 70,000 Jews. What did they do to deserve it? Absolutely nothing. The insubordination of just one Jewish man caused their deaths. King David breached the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God by taking an unwarranted census. As a result; those 70,000 Jews went to their deaths through no fault of their own; it was all on David.

I can't imagine what just one Jew would have to do in order to bring about the deaths of six million of his fellows; but if a whole bunch of them throughout the world were breaching the covenant all at the same time, I guess that could become a sort of force-multiplier.

That's pretty scary when you think about it because more than fifty percent of the Jews living in the State of Israel right now today are hiloni (secular). In my estimation, that's easily enough insubordinate Jews all in one place for God to justify bringing down the whole country; and then if you combine those with the number of insubordinate Jews around the rest of the world, including the USA; now you can appreciate just how insecure Israel's future really is.

Another possibility is that the generation caught by the Holocaust, was caught not only due to their own breaches of the covenant, but also due to breaches committed by generations preceding them.

Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed: Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

That statement is included in the covenant, so God is morally obligated to honor it lest He be found in breach of contract. But it just goes to show that sins have a way of snow-balling from one generation to the next till the snowball is so big that it triggers an act of God; which is disturbing because it tells me that it's not impossible that the Jews of today are endangering the Jews of tomorrow by their current breaches of the covenant-- breaches that according to Ex 34:6-7, God will by no means sweep under the rug.

Wouldn't it be awful if the next Holocaust took place right inside the Jews' own homeland? I sincerely believe that Saddam Hussein's SCUDS were a wake-up call. Next time; incoming missiles just may contain nuclear warheads instead of high explosives; and many among Jacob's people will be poisoned to death with radiation instead of pesticide.

The upside to the Holocaust is its value as historical evidence for the existence of the covenant's God. It is also valuable as historical evidence that the covenant was still in force for Moses' people as recent as the middle of the last century. True; the covenant is obsolete where Christians are concerned, but that old dog can still bark; and it will be the basis in the future to decide which Jews return to their homeland and which don't. (Ezek 20:33-38)

I believe it's okay to pity the Jews as per Lam 1:12; but I do not believe it is appropriate to let them get away with playing the victim all the time. That's just a red herring diverting attention away from their own chronic failure to honor the covenant in a manner consistent with their God's requirements.
_

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 25, 2021 - 21:55:08 »

Online NyawehNyoh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
  • Manna: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's Wrong All The Time
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jan 26, 2021 - 13:55:03 »
.
POSIT: Your degree of anti-Semitism is unacceptable; especially coming from somebody passing themselves off as a Christian!

RESPONSE: Jehovah's very own criticisms, and the prophets' writings too, contain far more of what can be construed as "anti-Semitism" than anything I've written. For example: the book of Isaiah opens with this:

Isa 1:1-3 . . The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, [and] Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear O heavens! and give ear O earth! for Yhvh has spoken. Children I have raised and exalted, yet they have rebelled against Me. An ox knows his owner and a donkey his master's crib; but Israel does not know, My people do not think about it.

Oxen and burros are well known for their below-average IQ; but in His indictment, Jehovah complained that those two species of barnyard beasts of burden have more brains than His own people when it comes to appreciating His providence; and Jehovah's statement: "they have rebelled against me" mirrors the age-old colloquialism of biting the hand that feeds you.

There are so many anti-Semitic comments and remarks throughout the book of Isaiah that sometimes it's actually difficult to believe it wasn't penned by a Palestinian instead of a patriot; and that's only Isaiah, some of the other prophets are just as harsh.


NOTE: The term "holocaust" comes from the Greek word holókauston, referring to an animal sacrifice offered to a god in which the whole (olos) animal is completely burnt (kaustos).

That's an appropriate meaning seeing as how a number of observant Jews sincerely believe that the deaths of six million of their fellows via German atrocities during the second world war satisfied certain teachings and predictions in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah's prophecy. A rabbinic interpretation of that chapter proposes, in so many words, that the fate of Jehovah's people at the hands of Hitler's minions accomplished the salvation of the world.

The interpretation is a bit involved so I won't go into it here; but suffice to say that the interpretation provides, for some, the only rational explanation as to why Jehovah stood by and did nothing to prevent so many of His own people from being rounded up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their wealth, and their possessions, enslaved, starved, malnourished, deprived of basic human necessities, tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments, worked to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions by Nazi mad men.

The error of that interpretation is so obvious that it's almost below me to point it out; to wit: Judaism regards human sacrifice as a breach of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God; and also sincerely believes that human sacrifice is an abomination.

There are astute Bible scholars of the opinion that the Jewish genocide of the last century was only a taste of one to come in the future when a super powerful political figure, known to just about everybody as the anti-Christ, will target Jehovah's people with another mass extinction. They say his won't be confined to Europe like the last one, but will encompass the entire globe so that Jews won't be safe anywhere on the planet.

Those scholars also believe that the present State of Israel isn't permanent; but that it will be conquered and the Jews lose control of their homeland all over again. I don't know for myself whether those scholars are right, but if they are, then it would appear that the future of Jehovah's people at this point in time is looking mighty grim, to say the least.
_

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15332
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #7 on: Wed Jan 27, 2021 - 05:37:54 »
BTW, Yom HaShoah, or Holocaust Memorial Day,  will be Friday, April 9 2021.
It will be a sad day of remembrance for me.

A few years ago my daughter did DNA tests on several family members, including myself.  Turns out on my dad's side we were related to the Shapiro family of ultra-orthodox chassidic rebbes and rabbis. The whole line was almost completely eliminated in the destruction.

My wife and I toured Israel in the summer of 2018 just after i found out.  The Holocaust Museum there was especially difficult for me.

Online NyawehNyoh

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 951
  • Manna: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's Wrong All The Time
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jan 28, 2021 - 11:19:29 »
.
Writing to the Christians in Rome; the apostle Paul said:

"Share with God's people who are in need." (Rom 12:13)

The Jews are God's people in accordance with an unconditional covenant that He made with Abraham. (Gen 17:7-8)

Nazi Germany was very nearly 99% Christian. Had they all complied with Rom 12:13, the effects of the Holocaust would've no doubt been greatly reduced.
_

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jan 28, 2021 - 11:19:29 »

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15332
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Holocaust Memorial Day 2021
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jan 28, 2021 - 11:54:36 »
Nazi Germany was very nearly 99% Christian. Had they all complied with Rom 12:13, the effects of the Holocaust would've no doubt been greatly reduced.
More than half of those christians were of the Lutheran stripe.  Hitler made sure he quoted Luther's suggestion** that we lock Jews in their synagogues and burn them down. 

** On the Jews and Their Lies  published 1543.

 

     
anything