Author Topic: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?  (Read 1108 times)

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Offline Link

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #35 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 11:30:35 »
Do we have record of elders being other than City-Wide leaders? Especially since there probably wasn’t a physical location of the church in Ephesus, like at so and so address on 12th street. House gatherings prevailed, right?

This is a good point.  We read about the church in a particular city.  There were elders for the church in Jerusalem, who worked together for decisions related to the saints in that city.  The same in Ephesus.

In the case of Jerusalem, there could have been ten thousand Christians or more there at some of the points in time we see in Acts.  Even if they could not all fit into one house at the same time, they elders worked together.  We do not read about the elders of the church on Jaffa Street in Jerusalem who have nothing to do with the elders of the church on Temple Street. 

Synagogues had elders, and it may be that the elders were responsible for smaller segments of the city church.  Peter said not to lord over their allotments.  So they may have had some assigned responsibility-- but still worked in concert with the eldership in whatever city they were a part of.

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #35 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 11:30:35 »

Offline Link

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #36 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 11:32:31 »
The evangelist teaches the qualifications and the congregation looks among itself to see if any meet those qualifications and appoint those who do to the office.

Where does the Bible teach this?  Weren't elders either appointed by apostles in scripture or at the instruction of the apostles... by their coworkers who operated as an extension of their ministries?

The only one not identified as one of the apostles who appointed elders, apparently, in scripture was Titus, and he is not referred to as an evangelist, pastor, apostle, etc.

Offline Link

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #37 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 14:15:03 »
Does the practice of some Restoration Movement churches of having a clergyman up front preaching from the pulpit called an 'evangelist' simply relabel and perpetuate the one-man pastor system?  Is it a Presbyterian or Baptist model, just using different labels? 

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #37 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 14:15:03 »

Offline Johnb

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 17:05:07 »
In most cases the preacher is really a paid elder or pastor who is watching over the flock and giving advice on how to live for Christ. Not an exact thing but they are much closer to a pastor or teacher and certainly not an evangelist.

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 17:05:07 »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #39 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 22:40:51 »
 rofl ::noworries::

I couldn't stand to do more than skim this thread.

It's hilarious to see people dogmatically declaring specific certainties at all, let alone doing so in direct contradiction to each other.

I will join in:  I declare with dogmatic certainty that Scripture does not give clear and specific definitions of elder, deacon, pastor, overseer, or evangelist.  AFAIK, the only person specifically named as an "evangelist" was Phillip.  (Timothy was instructed to "do the work of" an evangelist.  Some interpret that as saying he *was* an evangelist, while many opine that he was *not* an evangelist and that was why he had to be instructed to "do the work of" one.)  AFAIK, the only person specifically referred to as "pastor" was Jesus (1 Pet. 2:25).  AFAIK, the only person specifically referred to as "overseer" was Jesus (1 Pet. 2:25 -- unless we wish to include Judas, Acts 1:20).

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #39 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 22:40:51 »



Offline Link

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #40 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 18:10:48 »
rofl ::noworries::

I couldn't stand to do more than skim this thread.

It's hilarious to see people dogmatically declaring specific certainties at all, let alone doing so in direct contradiction to each other.

I will join in:  I declare with dogmatic certainty that Scripture does not give clear and specific definitions of elder, deacon, pastor, overseer, or evangelist.  AFAIK, the only person specifically named as an "evangelist" was Phillip.  (Timothy was instructed to "do the work of" an evangelist.  Some interpret that as saying he *was* an evangelist, while many opine that he was *not* an evangelist and that was why he had to be instructed to "do the work of" one.)  AFAIK, the only person specifically referred to as "pastor" was Jesus (1 Pet. 2:25).  AFAIK, the only person specifically referred to as "overseer" was Jesus (1 Pet. 2:25 -- unless we wish to include Judas, Acts 1:20).

What does AFAIK mean?

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #40 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 18:10:48 »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #41 on: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 01:10:51 »
What does AFAIK mean?

As Far As I  Know.

Offline 4WD

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #42 on: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 05:09:33 »
I declare with dogmatic certainty that Scripture does not give clear and specific definitions of elder, deacon, pastor, overseer, or evangelist. 
I think there is a good deal of truth in the lack of clear and specific definitions of the words.  However we know that elders, pastors [actually shepherds] and overseers all refer to the same person or office.  See Acts 20:17, 28 where Paul says to the elders [GR - presbuteros] (v.17) that they should  "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers [GR - episkopos], to shepherd [GR - poimaino (noun form is poimen)] the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

And we see there that Jesus is not the only one given the name or title of  pastor or overseer.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 05:12:44 by 4WD »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #43 on: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 06:45:12 »
I think there is a good deal of truth in the lack of clear and specific definitions of the words.  However we know that elders, pastors [actually shepherds] and overseers all refer to the same person or office.  See Acts 20:17, 28 where Paul says to the elders [GR - presbuteros] (v.17) that they should  "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers [GR - episkopos], to shepherd [GR - poimaino (noun form is poimen)] the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

And we see there that Jesus is not the only one given the name or title of  pastor or overseer.

There is certainly ample evidence of at least overlap among elder, bishop/overseer/supervisor, and pastor/shepherd.  I'm not sure we can conclude they are always identical.

I agree that the unnamed elders in Acts were shepherds and overseers.  But I stand by what I said, i.e. that Jesus is the only specific named individual given the label of "shepherd" and "overseer."

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #43 on: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 06:45:12 »

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Re: HOW ARE ELDERS APPOINTED TO THE ASSEMBLY TODAY ?
« Reply #44 on: Fri Jan 17, 2020 - 15:19:23 »
The verb form is used of Peter, Paul, and the elders of the church. Peter and the elders were  commanded to pastor.  Jesus told Peter to pastor His sheep.  Peter and Paul commanded elders to pastor.  Paul compared his ministry to pastoring in i Corinthians 9.

Ephesians 4:11 calls some of the gifts Christ gave 'pastors and teachers.'

 

     
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