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Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #245 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 05:02:10 »
Hey Red and 4WD

Why don't you answer the question posed in post 231 above?  I'm anxious to see what you have to say.
First time I have seen this invitation, or, should I say mocking. But, I will say this, there is not a point you can bring up (or anyone else) that you have confidence in that disproves Jesus' Divinity that the word of God will not expose you as a false prophet and a liar. I will deal with each and everyone as time permits me to do so.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
1. Jesus said that ONLY His Father knew the day of the second coming, not the Son (Mark 13:32). What about the Spirit? Apparently he does not know because only the Father knows. Are there things that the Father knows that the Spirit does not? If so, in what sense can the persons of the Trinity be co-equal, and of the same essence?
So simple....God IS a Spirit, the Godhead is ONE, as far as being ONE I AM THAT I AM~eternal both ways. God, who IS a Spirit in His Infinite wisdom and power has revealed Himself as THREE according to each person's work in the redemption of God's elect.

God's Son, was conceived IN TIME around two thousand years ago, thereby as the Son of God according to his humanity is NOT equal with God, and does not have Divine power, and infinite wisdom but was made IN ALL POINTS as we are, YET without sin. When Jesus was conceived, the Word which was God, JOINED HIMSELF to the tabernacle of the Son of God. Thus Jesus was a complex person, fully man, fully God, yet those two natures were ever separated from each other and were never mingled in any actions, word or deed, or even thoughts. Thus we read these words of John:
Quote from: John's confession of WHO and WHAT IS GOD
1st John 1:1-3~That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."
The mystery of godliness~The Word, in the beginning, was manifested and John confess he saw with his eyes, he looked upon him, and his hands handled the Word of life. The ONE God manifested Himself as three according to each work in the redemption of the children of God. The Son in time was God in the beginning as the I AM THAT I AM.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #2: How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?
Because he was also A MAN called Jesus of Nazareth. It is called rightly dividing the word of truth~not that difficult if one has the Spirit of God teaching them.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #3: If Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God in heaven when the book of Revelation was written, why does Jesus continue to make such clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God” if he himself is God?
He is there as the MAN Christ Jesus!
Quote from: Paul
1st Timothy 2:5~"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
God is a Spirit that will NEVER change, NEVER. No one has ever seen God as a Spirit, not even angels. Jesus Christ will FOREVER be subject to God as a man, just as we read....
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 15:24-28~"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
When shall see Jesus, then it will be fulfilled......
Quote from: Jesus
Matthew 5:8~"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #4: If God cannot be tempted by evil, yet Jesus was tempted in every way we are, how can he be God
Again so simple~He was tempted as a MAN, not as God. It ALL goes back to accepting scriptures testimony of Jesus having complex natures, both man, and God, for there are many scriptures that can ONLY be explained by accepting this biblical truth.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #6: If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?
Answered already~he was the Son OF MAN, as well as the Son OF GOD.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #7: If Jesus is God, why did he say to his disciples: “Trust in God; trust also in me”?
Really? Is this the best you folks have to offer? I assume you are referring to John 14:1~ this scripture truly works AGAINST your beliefs NOT for you.

Both propositions alike, and express God and Christ to be "equally" the object of their faith; and since therefore they had so good a foundation for their faith and confidence, they had no reason to be uneasy: or thus, "believe in God, and believe in me"; and so both are exhortations to exercise faith alike on them both, as being the best antidote they could make use of against heart troubles: or thus, "believe in God, and ye believe in me"; and so the former is an exhortation, the latter a proposition: and the sense is, put your trust in God, and you will also trust in me, for I am of the same nature and essence with him; I and my Father are one; so that if you believe in one, you must believe in the other!
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #8: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. If that is true, how can the Father be (in any way) greater than Jesus?
Pitiful defense you folks hide behind. They are co-equal as far as their Divinity goes, NOT Jesus' Sonship. Son implies a father and a father is BEFORE a son, so as far as Jesus' being the Son of God according to his HUMANITY the Father is greater! People who know our family calls me Mr. Baker, they call my son by his own name yet he's in his forties, but less than his father.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #9: How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?
Because of his humanity being born of a woman. Again until you folks accept the biblical truth that God was indeed manifest in the flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth then you will continue embracing heresies concerning the Sonship of Jesus Christ and spreading it which is much worst.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #10: If Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted, why would the Devil tempt Jesus?
Are you so blinded? Because Jesus ALSO was a MAN~and as I said, and the scriptures will support this, Jesus' complex natures were EVER separated from each other, and never worked together, but it was very evident that he posses power that an ordinary man could NOT possess, such as KNOWING other thoughts and SEEING other sitting under a tree before he ever met them, and disappearing in the mist of crowds who wanted to kill him~and many such Divine powers he possess, yet, also, was just like all of us, he hungered, got tired, needed rest, and IN ALL point temepted as we are, BEING the Son of MAN.

« Last Edit: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 05:10:00 by RB »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #245 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 05:02:10 »

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #246 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 06:36:54 »
Quote; "Are you so blinded? Because Jesus ALSO was a MAN~and as I said, and the scriptures will support this, Jesus' complex natures were EVER separated from each other, and never worked together, but it was very evident that he posses power that an ordinary man could NOT possess, such as KNOWING other thoughts and SEEING other sitting under a tree before he ever met them, and disappearing in the mist of crowds who wanted to kill him~and many such Divine powers he possess, yet, also, was just like all of us, he hungered, got tired, needed rest, and IN ALL point temepted as we are, BEING the Son of MAN. "


You are the one who contradicts yourself, you keep saying Jesus the Son is God the Father. You dont believe Jesus had his own spirit?
Its just silly to read you saying; "Jesus' complex natures were EVER separated from each other, and never worked together" But then you turn around and say that Jesus is God. Your saying that Jesus is God but that they were seperate from each other. Who's blind? lol

The works were the Fathers works working through the Son.

“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. -Jhn.14:10

“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;
that they may all be one; {even as} You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world {may believe that You sent Me.}

The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, {just as} We are one;

I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
-Jhn.17:20-23
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 06:40:06 by BTR »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #246 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 06:36:54 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #247 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:28:46 »
You are the one who contradicts yourself, you keep saying Jesus the Son is God the Father.
I don't believe that RB ever said that. IF he did then it was a mistype.  Jesus is God the Son.  There is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.  Now I get it that you don't understand that.  No one else really understands that, but no one really understands anything spiritual.   That is the reason that everything concerning divinity, the divine, God, etc. written in the Bible are always explanations in a figurative mode.  We human beings have no basis upon which to comprehend anything spiritual.

You asked,
Quote from: BTR
You dont believe Jesus had his own spirit?
I defy you to even present a clear understanding of your own spirit, let alone have even an inkling of understanding of Jesus' spirit.  And since you can't even give a rational explanation of your own spirit, it is not surprising that you have little true understanding of Jesus declaration, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).  But the Jews knew exactly what He meant by that.  They accused Him of blasphemy because He claimed He was God (John 10:33).

One of the main problems here with you, with Truthcomber, with all who would deny that Jesus is divine is that in doing so, you have placed rather severe limitations upon God.  You have decided what and who God is and what He can be and do and what he cannot.  It is your lack of understanding of the spiritual which hinders you.  You are unwilling to admit to anything spiritual that is not perfectly expressible in the physical.

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #247 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:28:46 »

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #248 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:31:17 »
You are the one who contradicts yourself, you keep saying Jesus the Son is God the Father. You dont believe Jesus had his own spirit? Its just silly to read you saying; "Jesus' complex natures were EVER separated from each other, and never worked together" But then you turn around and say that Jesus is God. Your saying that Jesus is God but that they were separate from each other. Who's blind? lol
I have never said that Jesus did not have a human spirit, of course he had a human spirit.  He commended HIS spirit to God when he gave up the ghost.
Quote from: Jesus
Luke 23:46~"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
You asked:
Quote from: BTR Today at 06:36:54
Who's blind?
We shall let the word of God decide that question~so far you have not disproved my answers to your team's questions.
Quote from: BTR Today at 06:36:54
The works were the Fathers works working through the Son.
Agreed.  Again, we must separate as the word of God DOES Jesus' complex natures. 

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #248 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:31:17 »
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Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #249 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:37:21 »
I don't believe that RB ever said that. IF he did then it was a mistype.  Jesus is God the Son.
Never said that~what I have said is just what Isaiah said that IN HIS DIVINITY Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father of all things, that I have said because Isaiah said the same.
Quote from: Isaiah
Isaiah  9:6,7~"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."
Quote from: 4WD Today at 07:28:46
Jesus is God the Son.
In his humanity that is the truth!
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:40:27 by RB »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #249 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 07:37:21 »



Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #250 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 09:03:24 »
Never said that~what I have said is just what Isaiah said that IN HIS DIVINITY Jesus Christ is the everlasting Father of all things, that I have said because Isaiah said the same. In his humanity that is the truth!



My Response:


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment (John 5:22,27) and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Christ together with the church will inherit the one name of God (the Father).  Christ came in that name, but did not inherit it until his resurrection and glorification.  I would suspect that name to mean many profound things.  Notice “prince of peace” and “judgement”.   These terms do not address our heavenly father.  Our heavenly father designated Christ to run the world government after Christ returns unto the end.  So as that agent (king of kings), he is called the everlasting father.  In Isa 9:7 Judgment was given to Christ because he is the son of man (John 5:22, 27).  Isa 9:6-7 does not identify Christ as God, but as God’s agent.  When his agency finishes, he hands over the kingdom of this world to his father. 



John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son…27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:…17  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth

It is not Christ's humanity that is truth like Red so stated. 

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #250 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 09:03:24 »

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #251 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 13:47:38 »
Christ together with the church will inherit the one name of God (the Father).  Christ came in that name, but did not inherit it until his resurrection and glorification.   
Truthcomber, it is not easy to reason with men void of truth, and, or who are spiritually ignorant. You make up things that are not in the scriptures. What the word of God does say is this:
Quote from: Isaiah
Isaiah 62:1-2~"For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name."
Verse one tells us that new name~Mount Zion/New Jerusalem~
Quote from: The Holy Ghost
Hebrews 12:22~But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"
You said:
Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
I would suspect that name to mean many profound things.  Notice “prince of peace” and “judgement”.   These terms do not address our heavenly father. 
Now that we KNOW what the saints new name will be, you can forsake..
Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
I would suspect that name to mean many profound things.
this theory that you hold in order to escape the powerful truth taught in Isaiah 9:6 concerning the DIVINITY of Jesus Christ in his Divine nature that he posses.
Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Notice “prince of peace” and “judgement”.   These terms do not address our heavenly father.
What they DO address is the Godhead's attributes that the Son that was promised and given HAD! Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father that he shared with his Father from everlasting to everlasting by being ONE with him is ALL the attributes that the Lord God, whose name is I AM THAT I AM possessed.
Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Our heavenly father designated Christ to run the world government after Christ returns unto the end.  So as that agent (king of kings), he is called the everlasting father.
Wrong, the son promised and given to Israel is the everlasting mighty God Creator of ALL THINGS. That's is WHY Jesus is called the everlasting Father, for he IS the source of all things visible and invisible. All things were created BY him and FOR him! He is BEFORE all things and BY HIM all things consist. See Colossians 1:15,16
Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Isa 9:6-7 does not identify Christ as God, but as God’s agent.
Well, your religion/faith will not admit that, but God's prophet Isaiah said that you are a liar and false. Words have NO MEANING if these word do not clearly state that Jesus Christ IS God of Genesis 1:1, etc.
Quote
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Wonderful with a capital "W"; Counsellor with a capital "C"; The mighty God, and "everlasting" Father! Much more than a agent! But, what would a person like you know about spiritual truths?
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 13:49:46 by RB »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #252 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:31:55 »
Quote from: Truthcomber on Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 09:03:24

Christ together with the church will inherit the one name of God (the Father).  Christ came in that name, but did not inherit it until his resurrection and glorification.

RT Reply #251: Truthcomber, it is not easy to reason with men void of truth, and, or who are spiritually ignorant.



My Response:

Here is the scripture proof that contradicts your misstatement and arrogance.   This must be the forth time stating the below.  You did not respond to it before.


John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Comment: Jesus Christ is not one of God’s names.  The Messiah came in God’s name which is his father’s name. 

Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Romans 8:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son…17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Comment: Christ and his church inherits all things including God’s name.  Christ died in God’s name and then inherited God's name.

 


RT Reply #251:
Quote from: Isaiah
Isaiah 62:1-2~"For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name."
Verse one tells us that new name~Mount Zion/New Jerusalem~
Quote from: The Holy Ghost
Hebrews 12:22~But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"



My Response: This and you contradict the scripture below.  God’s name is incomprehensible to us mortal humans.  I guess you also would know the date and time the Lord returns.

Judges 13:8 Then Manoah intreated the LORD…17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? 18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
18 (NIV) He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding."

(NLT) "Why do you ask my name?" the angel of the LORD replied. "It is too wonderful for you to understand."

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name (unknown now) of the LORD (Yahweh) shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name (unknown now) of the Lord (Kuros: master, Lord) shall be saved.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/romans10_13.html

Acts 4:10
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name (unknown at this time) of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole…12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Rev 19:12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew (at that time of the written of Revelation), but he himself.


Isa 56:5
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Comment: inherited a name better than his.  God has a name for every living creature.  A name identifies a persons character. 

Psalm 82:1(A Psalm of Asaph.) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

 

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 


Act 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Christ) whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead. 
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 03:18:17 by Truthcomber »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #253 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:37:15 »
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (God).  3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Comment:  New Jerusalem in Rev 21:2 corresponds with “my Father’s house in John 14:2.  In Rev 21.3 ““He” will dwell with them” is Christ.  The rest of the church is part of that one temple.  That one temple symbolically marries the Father.  All are bonded together as one. They all share the same name

1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Christ), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him that God may be all in all.  God becomes the absolute head when he and Christ are completely bonded together. This is when God becomes the head of all.   

Comment: This is the marriage of Christ to God in Rev 21:2.  The marriage of Christ to his church took place at the Marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev 19:6-9.  

1 Cor 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Comment: We are addressing three different marriages.  Not every man and woman are married. So the head of every married woman is the man.  Not every man belongs to Christ.  The head of the church is Christ.  And the head of Christ is God in Rev 2 abd 1 Cor 15:28.  Now Christ could not symbolically be married to his father if they were the same person, could he? 
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 03:33:39 by Truthcomber »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #253 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:37:15 »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #254 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:41:39 »
Page 8

RB
« Reply #245 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 05:02:10
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
1. Jesus said that ONLY His Father knew the day of the second coming, not the Son (Mark 13:32). What about the Spirit? Apparently he does not know because only the Father knows. Are there things that the Father knows that the Spirit does not? If so, in what sense can the persons of the Trinity be co-equal, and of the same essence?

So simple....God IS a Spirit, the Godhead is ONE, as far as being ONE I AM THAT I AM~eternal both ways. God, who IS a Spirit in His Infinite wisdom and power has revealed Himself as THREE according to each person's work in the redemption of God's elect.

God's Son, was conceived IN TIME around two thousand years ago, thereby as the Son of God according to his humanity is NOT equal with God, and does not have Divine power, and infinite wisdom but was made IN ALL POINTS as we are, YET without sin. When Jesus was conceived, the Word which was God, JOINED HIMSELF to the tabernacle of the Son of God. Thus Jesus was a complex person, fully man, fully God, yet those two natures were ever separated from each other and were never mingled in any actions, word or deed, or even thoughts. Thus we read these words of John:

MY Response:
You are right up to the end of the red print.  Then you contradict yourself totally—not fully reasonable and fully unreasonable—just fully unreasonable. 

God is mind and spirit, two sides of the same coin. We all have our own minds.  This includes God and his son.   His son is the image of God, which mankind will be made up of.  He is the beginning of a new creation.  Christ is our brother and master.  As he is the son of God, we too become the sons of God through him. 

Christ’s is fully joined to God through his spirit.  God’s mind and Christ’s spirit mind became bonded as one through God's holy spirit. Christ's human mind became bonded with his spirit mind through his human spirit.  Thus his human spirit bonded as one with the holy spirit. 

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 23 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ (here on earth).

John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet___; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Comment: Christ’s human spirit became fully bonded as one with the holy spirit after his resurrection from the dead and his ascension into heaven.
 
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus (anointed) Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world….15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 

Meaning of Christ: “the anointed one,” or “the chosen one.”
http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/what-does-christ-mean

Comment:
Christ came as the son (of God) of man.  His spirit mind in his flesh was born of God.  His human spirit in his human mind bonded with the holy spirit as one.  He is the son of God because like the first Adam (son of God), he is the first of the new creation which includes many sons.


Red

Quote from: John's confession of WHO and WHAT IS GOD
1st John 1:1-3~That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."
 

My Response:


https://wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com/2016/11/why-do-trinitarians-use-isaiah-96-to.html

Parallel verse:
1 Tim 3:16 (NIV) Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He (Not God:vs. 13) Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (spirit), and the Word was with God (mind and spirit), and the Word was God.

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning…




Comment: The word of God is the spirit of God and is eternal.   

2 Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ,…
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
1 John 1:1 “of the Word of life”

Comment: The Word of life was in the Messiah, the Messiah was not the Word of Life. 
 
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1 John 1:2eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Comment: The Messiah was the manifestation of his father who is God to those he has chosen. The church should follow Christ's example and be the light of the world.

1 John 1:2
… eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


1 John 1:3 … truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


RED The mystery of godliness~The Word, in the beginning, was manifested and John confess he saw with his eyes, he looked upon him, and his hands handled the Word of life. The ONE God manifested Himself as three according to each work in the redemption of the children of God. The Son in time was God in the beginning as the I AM THAT I AM.

My Response: God through his word or spirit (from his mind)  became bonded with the Messiah in his spirit in his mind.  The body of the Messiah is bonded with his spirit.  Thus the body of the Messiah became the body or temple of God.  By the way, so does the church.   

Rev 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

1 Cor 15:38
(NIV) But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Luke 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

Comment: Christ grew in the spirit.  The church grew in the spirit.  The church and Christ are one temple.  Together they are the body of God. The angels are not of the body of Christ. 

Luke 13:18 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it? 19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: . 

RED Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 20:48:52
Question #2: How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?

Red: Because he was also A MAN called Jesus of Nazareth. It is called rightly dividing the word of truth~not that difficult if one has the Spirit of God teaching them.

Question #6: If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?
Answered already~he was the Son OF MAN, as well as the Son OF GOD.

My Response: Yea right. So the Messiah as a man was worshipping and praying to himself as God.  Makes a lot of horse sense.   


Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son (of God) of man, that thou visitest him?

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him (Christ) not.

Comment:
Christ, together with the church is called man and the son of God. 


RT

Matthew 5:8~"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."


1 John 4:12 (NIV) No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

1 Tim 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/can-we-ever-see-god-or-not

Matt 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see (perceive) God.



from the author:


1. We use the word “see” to mean that we finally understand and discern the beauty and glory of God after being blind to it. Like when we say: Oh, now I see. Our soul is tuned in to the glory so that the glory of God that shines through the gospel is seen as glorious, and we are no longer spiritually blind to it. That is the first way we see him.
“To see God’s glory is to understand and discern the beauty of God after being blind to it.”
2. And the second way is that, in the narrative of the Bible, we see the glory of God and finally we will see him face to face through Christ — by seeing Christ. So, John 1:14, 18

Comment: We see the perceive the Messiah who is not God. 
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 04:06:52 by Truthcomber »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #255 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:46:16 »
Red « page 8 Reply #251 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 13:47:38 » 

Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
I would suspect that name to mean many profound things.

this theory that you hold in order to escape the powerful truth taught in Isaiah 9:6 concerning the DIVINITY of Jesus Christ in his Divine nature that he posses.

Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Notice “prince of peace” and “judgement”.   These terms do not address our heavenly father.
What they DO address is the Godhead's attributes that the Son that was promised and given HAD! Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father that he shared with his Father from everlasting to everlasting by being ONE with him is ALL the attributes that the Lord God, whose name is I AM THAT I AM possessed.


My Response:

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son (of God) of man.:

Comment: Otherwise we should call Christ man and not son of man.  He is the son (of God) of man.


Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Our heavenly father designated Christ to run the world government after Christ returns unto the end.  So as that agent (king of kings), he is called the everlasting father.
Wrong, the son promised and given to Israel is the everlasting mighty God Creator of ALL THINGS. That's is WHY Jesus is called the everlasting Father, for he IS the source of all things visible and invisible. All things were created BY him and FOR him! He is BEFORE all things and BY HIM all things consist. See Colossians 1:15,16









Quote from: Truthcomber Today at 09:03:24
Isa 9:6-7 does not identify Christ as God, but as God’s agent.
Well, your religion/faith will not admit that, but God's prophet Isaiah said that you are a liar and false. Words have NO MEANING if these word do not clearly state that Jesus Christ IS God of Genesis 1:1, etc.


Quote
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Wonderful with a capital "W"; Counsellor with a capital "C"; The mighty God, and "everlasting" Father! Much more than a agent! But, what would a person like you know about spiritual truths?


My Response:


http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/isaiah-9-6


Isa 9:6
the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty Hero, Father of the Coming Age, Prince of Peace…7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-6.htm

From the author: he will reign on David’s throne (v. 7), which could never be said of God. God could never sit on David’s throne

The phrase translated “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6 in the NIV in the Hebrew, el gibbor. That very phrase, in the plural form, is used Ezekiel 32:21 where dead “heroes” and mighty men.

However, the phrase is mistranslated. The word translated “everlasting” is actually “age,” and the correct translation is that Jesus will be calledfather of the [coming] age.” 

“Father” was being used in the cultural understanding of either one who was the first to do something or someone who was important in some way. Because the Messiah will be the one to establish the age to come, raise the dead into it, and rule over it, he is called “the father of the coming age.”

My Response: The Hebrew language only has capitals.  Nowwhere does Isa 9:6 or any other scripture call the Messiah Almighty God. 







http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/isaiah9_6.html

From the author:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/TTD/verses/isaiah9_6.html

From the author:

1. Bearing God's Name
In the examples above, it should be obvious that persons and places don't bear the name EL or Yahweh because the ARE God. In fact, Christians have the name of God written on their foreheads.
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name. Revelation 3:12.

Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. Revelation 14:1

There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His servants will serve Him; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. Revelation 22:4.
So if you have the name of God written on your forehead, and someone comes up to you and sees the name of God written on your forehead, should they suppose you ARE God? That would be a mistaken assumption wouldn't it? This is the same mistake Trinitarians are making at Isaiah 9:6.


The Messiah bears this name at Isaiah 9:6 not because he IS God but because God raises up His promised Messiah and does mighty works through him. The Messiah is the manifestation of God's wonderful counsel. God was in the Messiah reconciling the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19).
The Septuagint (LXX) Translation of Isaiah 9:6
Second century Jews had no anti-Christian bias. Christianity had not yet arrived. Now let us honestly acknowledge how they translated this Hebrew text into Greek:
"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the angel/messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him" (LXX).
These ancient Jewish translation scholars did not see this verse describing anyone as "God." Rather, they saw the verse describing an angel/messenger. Given the context, it is highly unlikely that they had a divine messenger (angel) in mind. The same Hebrew word was used to refer to human messengers. The Greek Septuagint was a translation held in high esteem among Greek speaking Jews before/at the time of Christ. We also know for certain this Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament was also heavily quoted in the New Testament by Jesus and his apostles. The Septuagint was also the version used by the earliest Christians.
We must recognize that the Septuagint translation does not attempt to translate the Hebrew text as literally as possible. Their translation of Isaiah 9:6 does not attempt to be a word for word translation. The Jewish scholars of that time were more concerned about presenting the intended concept and meaning of the verse rather than providing a word for word translation. And these ancient Jewish scholars did not perceive the Hebrew text to be describing this humanly born child-son as "God."
« Last Edit: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 04:12:33 by Truthcomber »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #256 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 02:52:27 »
RT  « page 8 Reply #251 on: Mon Jun 04, 2018 - 13:47:38 » 

All things were created BY him and FOR him! He is BEFORE all things and BY HIM all things consist. See Colossians 1:15,16



Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of the creation: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Cor 15:45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit…44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Comment
: Christ was resurrected as a spirit.  He can manifest himself in his spirit body which is visible and can shine as the sun.  .  So it is with the church. 
Colossians 1:15-16
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Colossians1_16.html

Eph 4:24 after God is created in righteousness
http://biblehub.com/greek/2936.htm




Adam the first man in the Genesis creation.  The second Adam the first man in the new creation. 


Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.:

2 Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them


Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #257 on: Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 05:13:54 »
My Response: Here is the scripture proof that contradicts your misstatement and arrogance.   This must be the forth time stating the below.  You did not respond to it before.
Truthcomber, I'm the one that you are not responding to, just because I skip certain scriptures does not mean there's no answer, I sometimes skip scriptures because I have answered when answering other like scriptures, that would have the same sense. Your problem and error are that you reject Christ's Divinity and refuse to confess that he was a complex person with two natures, which is clearly seen in comparing many scriptures.
Quote from: Truthcomber Reply #252 on: Today at 02:31:55
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Comment: Jesus Christ is not one of God’s names.  The Messiah came in God’s name which is his father’s name. 
Well no one has said that Jesus was the Father's name, for that was the Son's name, all agree. But the Son was also THE ANNOITED Christ, the promised Son to be given, whose name was Immanuel, meaning God with us.
Quote from: The Holy Ghost
Matthew 1:18-23~"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
Jesus was called Immanuel which IS God's name! It means God with us, which Jesus was God.... So, you're wrong again.
Quote from: Truthcomber Reply #252 on: Today at 02:31:55
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Sir, we all admit that Jesus was God' Son, yet we also confess that he was God manifested in the flesh. Even this verse you quoted will prove it:
Quote
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
You quoted verse two and LEFT "by whom also he made the worlds"! How deceitful! In what sense could it be said that Jesus created the worlds? in his DIVINE NATURE being before ALL THINGS! Again you are wrong and in serious error.
Quote from: Truthcomer Reply #252 on: Today at 02:31:55
Romans 8:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son…17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Comment: Christ and his church inherits all things including God’s name.  Christ died in God’s name and then inherited God's name.
Jesus Christ as a MAN will inherit all with members of his body, being one with him, he is the head. God is a Spirit that will forever dwell in eternity, that no angel or man has or will ever see.

I am finished with you because I'm just repeating myself with a person who is in error, and who is presenting the same old arguments over and over again.  Something new I might address, otherwise go bye.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #258 on: Wed Jun 20, 2018 - 10:54:00 »
I have noted and noted and noted that ALL of Scripture is to PROVE that the common triad as father, mother (spirit) and incompetent son IS WHAT GOD ALONE IS AS THE ALMIGHTY.

A major heresy was based on the Greek view that HERMES (father of thieves and liars) was the Word or LOGOS as a REAL "god" as the intercessor and conductor of dead spirits to hell for punishment. The New HERMENEUTIC literally claims that John got his LOGOS concept from the pagans. The Word or Logos is not a PEOPLE but God's Regulative and Governing principle. That PRINCIPLE which excludes any human ENHANCEMENT.

This held that the Jesus whom Scripture calls a MAN obedient TO God the Father WAS IN FACT YHWH IN THE FLESH.  God said that He was not a man nor the Son of man but Jesus said that He was a man and son of man.  Jesus said that God is SPIRIT and does not have flesh and bones AS YE SEE MEN HAVE.

The end timers say that the LORD-GOD came in the flesh.
Scripture says that CHRIST (anointed BY God as Messiah) came in the FLESH. God inhabits the universe or universes.
If you deny what SCRIPTURE says John identifies you as ANTICHRIST as Jesus said that He was the SON of God and the Jews BLASPHEMED because they claimed that He CLAIMED to be equal to God.

John wrote to prove that Jesus of Nazareth was given the authority antithetical to the three incompetent gods needing as in the Lipscomb etal dogma Jesus REQUIRES a holy spirit to make His word INTELLIGIBLE.

Theophilus was the next to DEFEND the Fact that God is COMPLETE and COMPETENT wiithin Himself.
Tertullian also wrote and the Campbell's teaching was the same as that of Tertullian.
Irenaeus also wrote using words identical to SCRIPTURE.
Jesus WAS NOT the I Am the Lord-God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob or the ONLY TRUE Elohim..
Isaiah 9 says of the SON BORN HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED "forms of Elohim" which defined His role as Lord or Ruler doing NOTHING of His own Authority.