GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: How can Jesus Christ be God?  (Read 8382 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Open Heart

  • Messianic Jew INFJ
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Female
  • Shalom Aleichem!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #70 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 04:15:14 »
Word is a kind of translation of LOGOS, the actual word in Greek.  It doesn't refer to Scripture.  It's NOT that kind of word.  It is not the word OF God.  John is using the Stoic understanding of LOGOS, which is the divine essence which underlies the world.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #70 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 04:15:14 »

Online RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #71 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 05:10:50 »
Jesus of Nazareth did NOT exist before Scripture PREDICTS His coming.
Kenneth this statement of yours is CORRECT, and very biblical in the manner in which you worded your statement. Nevertheless, Jesus in his DIVINE NATURE did exist as the I AM THAT I AM! Do you believe that Jesus was a COMPLEX PERSON? Yes or no?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #71 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 05:10:50 »

Online RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #72 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 05:14:39 »
People WITHOUT LIFE simply cannot believe:
I'll give you +1 on that statement.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #72 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 05:14:39 »

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #73 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 06:56:27 »
People WITHOUT LIFE simply cannot believe:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Your statement there, "people without life simply cannot believe", is a direct contradiction to the the verse, John 20:31, you referenced.

John first says why he wrote about some, but certainly not all, of the things that Jesus had done.  He wrote what he did in order that the reader could believe. He presented these things that Jesus did as proof of who and what Jesus was.  He was the Son of God and He was the Christ, the promised Messiah.

John next said what the result was for those who looked at the proof John presented and were convinced by that proof and believed.  And it was through believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God that they could have life. Believing comes first, then comes life in His name.

John proclaims directly that believing doesn't come through life; rather, life comes through believing.
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:00:34 by 4WD »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #73 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 06:56:27 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Online RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #74 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:13:34 »
Believing comes first, then comes life
So a new born baby cries proves that crying comes before life based on your understanding.

The scripture Kenneth used does not teach what he said, I agree, yet it also does not teach what you are saying either~ the true biblical sense of John 20;31 is that  God gave us the scriptures that we might believe, and THROUGH believing we might have life...that is the KNOWLEDGE that we possess life, which is evident BY THE FACT ONE BELIEVES.
Quote
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life ...........(the sense being~the KNOWLEDGE of life that those who believe HAVE WITHIN THEM) through his name.
How else can one know that he has the free gift of eternal life abiding within him APART from the scriptures? No one can. So THAT'S why God gave to us the word of God. It is the ONLY source of information concerning such truths.

Let us get back to the topic, shall we?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #74 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:13:34 »



Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #75 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:36:34 »
So a new born baby cries proves that crying comes before life based on your understanding.
Once again you attempt, wrongly, to explain spiritual life with a strict one-to-one comparison with physical life.  And you are and will be wrong in almost every attempt to do that.
Quote from: RB
The scripture Kenneth used does not teach what he said, I agree, yet it also does not teach what you are saying either~ the true biblical sense of John 20;31 is that  God gave us the scriptures that we might believe, and THROUGH believing we might have life...that is the KNOWLEDGE that we possess life, which is evident BY THE FACT ONE BELIEVES. How else can one know that he has the free gift of eternal life abiding within him APART from the scriptures? No one can. So THAT'S why God gave to us the word of God. It is the ONLY source of information concerning such truths.
RB, please don't give me that "true biblical sense" BS.  Whenever the obvious meaning of a passage of Scripture stands in direct contradiction and violation of your theology you try to give your "true biblical sense".  It is always a rewriting or rewording of the passage such that it says something other than what it really says.

The KNOWLEDGE that John spoke of there was NOT that we possess life.  The KNOWLEDGE that John spoke of there, due to the signs that Jesus did in the presence of His disciples (v.30), was the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. 

John says " these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. " 
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:39:33 by 4WD »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #75 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:36:34 »

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3455
  • Manna: 115
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #76 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 07:56:42 »

Jesus of Nazareth did NOT exist before Scripture PREDICTS His coming.

Before scripture predicts His coming? Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but what about His existence changed when scripture started predicting His coming?

If we are talking about His existence in the flesh, then that was fulfilled in His consummation and birth. Otherwise, He has always existed.

Ephesians 1:4.
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

1 Peter 1:20.
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for your sake,

Jesus, in the flesh, was foreknown and planned before creation.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #77 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 10:32:13 »
Rubel Shelly may be the modern father of the ANTI-Jesus idea that John was speaking about the GREEK Logos who was Hermes, Mercury or KAIROS now the faither of the planting of sattelite or daughter churches by the KAIROS Church Planting plot.  Scripture almost always REFUTES the. ANTI- God or ANTI-Christ since HE ALONE hears the Voice of the FATHER and never adds any personal songs or sermons.

Hermes is the GOD of the New Hermeneutic which repudiates Scripture and Christ by claiming that A SPIRIT PERSON has given them a NEW VISION which they CAST and BROADCAST

http://www.piney.com/FathIrenaHerII.html

Ye seem to affirm gravely and honestly enough that ye believe in God;
         but then, as ye are utterly unable to reveal any other God, 
        ye declare this very Being in whom ye profess to believe,
               the fruit of defect and the offspring of ignorance.        
        Now this blindness and foolish talking flow to you
        from the fact that ye reserve nothing for God, 
                  but ye wish to proclaim the nativity and production BOTH OF GOD HIMSELF both of God Himself,
                  of His Ennoea, of His Logos, and Life, and Christ;

and ye form the idea of these from no other than a mere human experience;
        not understanding, as I said before, that it is possible,
        in the case of man, who is a compound
        being, to speak in this way of the mind of man and the thought of man;
        and to say that thought (ennoa) springs from mind (sensus),
        intention (enthymesis) again from thought,
        and word (logos) from intention (but which logos?) 234

THE PAGAN FOLLY TO BE REPUDIATED:

for there is among the Greeks ONE LOGOS which is the principle that thinks,
        and ANOTHER which is the instrument by means of which thought is expressed);
        and [to say] that a man sometimes is at rest and silent,
        while at other times he speaks and is active.

But since God is 235
        all mind, all reason, all active spirit, all light,
        and always exists one and the same,
        as it is both beneficial for us to think of God,

        and as we learn regarding Him from the Scriptures,
        such feelings and divisions [of operation] cannot fittingly be ascribed to Him.

For our tongue, as being carnal, is not sufficient to minister to the rapidity of the human mind, inasmuch as that is of a spiritual nature, for which reason our word is restrained 236 within us, and is not at once expressed as it has been conceived by the mind, but is uttered by successive efforts, just as the tongue is able to serve it.

5. But God being all Mind, and all Logos,
        both speaks exactly what He thinks,
        and thinks exactly what He speaks.

For His thought is Logos, and Logos is
        Mind comprehending all things is the Father Himself.


He, therefore, who speaks of the mind of God,
        and ascribes to it a special origin of its own,
        declares Him a compound Being,
                AS IF God were one thing,
                and the original Mind another.

So, again, with respect to Logos,
        when one attributes to him the third 237 place of production from the Father;
                on which supposition he is ignorant of His greatness;
                and thus Logos has been far separated from God.


As for the prophet, he declares respecting Him,
        "Who shall describe His generation? " 238
        But ye pretend to set forth His generation from the Father,
        and ye transfer the production of the word of men
        which takes place by means of a tongue to the Word of God,
                and thus are righteously exposed by your own selves
                as knowing neither things human nor divine.

6. But, beyond reason inflated [with your own wisdom],
        ye presumptuously maintain that ye are acquainted
        with the unspeakable mysteries of God;
              while even the Lord, the very Son of God,
              allowed that the Father alone knows the very day and hour of judgment,

        when He plainly declares, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man,
        neither the Son, but the Father only." 239

If, then, the Son was not ashamed to ascribe the knowledge of that day to the Father only, but declared what was true regarding the matter, neither let us be ashamed to reserve for God those greater questions which may occur to us.

For no man is superior to his master. 240 If any one, therefore, says to us,
         "How then was the Son produced by the Father?
         "we reply to him, that no man understands that production, or generation, or calling, or revelation,
          or by whatever name one may describe His generation, which is in fact altogether indescribable.
         Neither Valentinus, nor Marcion, nor Saturninus, nor Basilides, nor angels, nor archangels, nor principalities, nor powers [possess this knowledge],

        but the Father only who begat, and the Son who was begotten.
        Since therefore His generation is unspeakable,
        those who strive to set forth generations and productions cannot be in their right mind,
        inasmuch as they undertake to describe things which are indescribable.

For that a word is uttered at the bidding of thought and mind, all men indeed well understand.
Those, therefore, who have excogitated [the theory of] emissions have not discovered anything great, or revealed any abstruse mystery,
        when they have simply transferred what all understand to the only-begotten Word of God;
        and while they style Him unspeakable and unnameable,
        they nevertheless set forth the production and formation of His first generation,
                as if they themselves had assisted at His birth,
                thus assimilating Him to the word of mankind formed by emissions.


AS ANTITHESIS AND TRAPS FOR THE PRESUMPTIOUS ALL OVER THE PLACE, GOD'S WORD OR LOGOS IS THE ANTITHESIS OF ALL OF THOSE WHO CANNOT GRASP THAT GOD SAYS "THE IMAGINATION OF MAN IS ONLY EVIL CONTIJNUALLY."  THE WAY TO DETECT THEM THE LOGOS OF GOD IS EXCLUSIVE OF THE USUAL WORSHIP RITUALS AND COMMANDS SPEAK OR READ.

Offline larry2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • Manna: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by Grace through Faith
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #78 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:44:12 »

How can Jesus Christ be God?

Jesus said it, I believe it, and that's good enough for me!!!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #78 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:44:12 »

Offline Open Heart

  • Messianic Jew INFJ
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Female
  • Shalom Aleichem!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #79 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:39:50 »
It is not enough to say that Jesus is God.  The following questions must be answered:
Is Jesus the same person as the Father?
Is Jesus a demi god, separate in being from the Father?
Is Jesus the same essense as the Father?
Is there just one God, but Jesus is a different person from the Father?
Was Jesus a created being?
Is Jesus part God and part man?
Is Jesus a man husk filled with a God spirit?
Does Jesus only appear to be a man but is actually only God?
Is Jesus fully man and fully God?


These answers are not in the Bible. Different Christians have interpreted different things at different times. Even today there is a minority that is out of step. We must depend upon the CHURCH's authority for the answers, given at Ecumenical Councils of the past.

Offline larry2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • Manna: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by Grace through Faith
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #80 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 14:33:43 »
Is Jesus God? Oh yeah.

Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Isa 44:6  Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

An article of information I think is good is “God - A Triunity” : http://www.gracegod.com/pamphlet_and_articles/pamphlets/God%20-%20A%20Triunity.pdf


Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5555
  • Manna: 456
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #81 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 15:55:56 »
Friend:  "Do you think the great spostasy the Bible warns of has begun yet?"

Me:  "I'm on a Christian Forum arguing about the Deity of Christ, so yes, I think it's started".

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #82 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 16:15:29 »
fish, the great apostasy has been going on since the Bible warned about it.  By the way, fish, I didn't think you believed in the possibility of apostasy.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #83 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 16:55:12 »
POOR LARRY: DENIES THAT JESUS CAME WITH FLESH AND BONES:
Quote
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Note Who is Speaking:

Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM
         to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
         and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

When the veil is still over your eyes you cannot grasp simple reading.
God gave the Revelation
TO JESUS
Therefore, Jesus is NOT GOD.

The MARK is quoting just parts of a message which DESTROYS its inspiration.

John the informers those with EYES and EARS:

Rev. 1:2 Who bare record of the WORD OF GOD,
        AND of the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST
        and of all things that he saw.

Jesus was NOT the WORD but He was the SPEAKER of the WORD. The Testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OFPROPHECY.
Only very few can READ and also HEAR.

Rev. 1:3  Blessed is he that READING, and they that HEAR the words of this prophecy,
        and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev. 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
        Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come;
        and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev. 1:5 And from JESUS CHRIST  who is the faithful WITNESS,
        and the FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD [You can't kill God]
        the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev. 1:6 And [JESUS] hath made us kings
        and priests unto God and HIS FATHER;
        to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,
        and they also which pierced him:
        and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, AMEN.

GOD ends the Revelation by identifying Himself.

Rev. 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY

OF JESUS THE SAME CONCEPT IS APPLIED

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto JESUS the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith; [THE WORD or LOGOS]
        who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
        AND IS SET DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE THRONE OF GOD

JESUS DIDN'T SIT DOWN ON THE RIGHT HAND OF JESUS. because He gives up the THRONE OF DAVID.

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5555
  • Manna: 456
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #84 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:08:37 »
4WD---

Yes--- I believe in apostasy.  It is where unbelievers reveal themselves:

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. (1 John 2:19)

When a supposed "believer" starts to deny the Deity of Christ it is safe to say they were never a real believer in the first place. And when I say real I mean a born-again, spirit filled
believer---not like those mentioned in Jude who "have not the Spirit" even though they are teaching a supposed Christian message.
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:46:47 by fish153 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #85 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:51:12 »
Latin Godhead or Divine is: dīvīnĭtas  Divine quality, divine nature, excellence; of the orator
Dīvīnus  I. of or belonging to a deity, divine “divina studia colere  divina facta, i. e., religious exercise, divine worship, sacrifice, etc Divine ORIGIN.
2. The divine, that which comes FROM God, nihil est divino divinius, Sen. Ep. 66, 11.— 3. That which is under the sanction of a god; a. By divine inspiration, prophetically: “plura divine praesensa et praedicta reperiri
       Divine stŭdĭum , I. a busying one's self about or application to a thing; assiduity, zeal, eagerness, fondness, inclination, desire, exertion, endeavor, study: (b). A place for study, a study, school (late Lat.): “philosophum (se egit) in omnibus studiis, templis, locis,” 

hosi-otēs
, ētos, hē, A. disposition to observe divine law, piety, Pl.Prt.329c, Euthphr.14d sq., X.Cyr.6.1.47, pros theōn ho. piety towards them, Plu.Alc.34 ; “pros tous theous ”like Lat. pietas, “hē pros goneis ho.” D.S.7.4 ; “pros tēn tekousan” Id.31.27.

        Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

        g5219.  hupakouo,from 5259 and 191; to hear under (as a subordinate), i.e. to listen attentively; by implication, to heed or conform to a command or authority:


Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5555
  • Manna: 456
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #86 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:53:29 »
Kenneth said----

>>>POOR LARRY: DENIES THAT JESUS CAME WITH FLESH AND BONES:<<<

Larry said no such thing.  You have the same problem the Jehovah's Witnesses have Kenneth.  That is why you attempt to re-translate John 1;1:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"  How can God be with God and be God at the same time? Makes
no sense. Yes-- to finite brains it makes no sense. But it is absolutely true just the same. Jesus is God and that is a main tenet of the Christian faith my friend.

Online Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5698
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #87 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:01:14 »
It is not enough to say that Jesus is God.  The following questions must be answered:
Is Jesus the same person as the Father?
Is Jesus a demi god, separate in being from the Father?
Is Jesus the same essense as the Father?
Is there just one God, but Jesus is a different person from the Father?
Was Jesus a created being?
Is Jesus part God and part man?
Is Jesus a man husk filled with a God spirit?
Does Jesus only appear to be a man but is actually only God?
Is Jesus fully man and fully God?


These answers are not in the Bible. Different Christians have interpreted different things at different times. Even today there is a minority that is out of step. We must depend upon the CHURCH's authority for the answers, given at Ecumenical Councils of the past.


I would like someone to answer these questions with coherent answers.

Seems to me there was a time in the Garden of Gethsemane that Jesus cried out to His father, but there was an obvious and distinct separation.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #88 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:12:18 »
Yes--- I believe in apostasy.  It is where unbelievers reveal themselves:
That is not apostasy.  From Dictionary.com:

Apostasy

noun, plural apostasies.

1. a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.


You can't apostatize beliefs you never had.  Only a believer can commit apostasy.  That is by definition.

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32005
  • Manna: 689
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #89 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:16:23 »
That is correct 4WD, one cannot fall from where they’ve never been. An unrevealed unbeliever is still an unbeliever. A revealed unbeliever is as he was before revealing his unbelief. Revealing their condition to the world has zero spiritual effect on their soul.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #90 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:21:34 »
Theophilus the FIRST to use the TRIAS Word defined the INTERNAL NATURE of God Who needs Nothing.
The WORD which is WITH God because IT is part of God is made audible by. Jesus Whom God MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ to enable Him to reveal God's INTERNAL AND NEVER SEPARATED NATURE.  God SENDS His WORD by His SPIRIT which is many times defined as words which God PUTS IN THE MOUTH of His agent.  I don't know any historical view that any of God's INTERNAL nature is SEPARATED.  God's Breath or Spirit is DETACHED from Him and is therefore different.  The Sun and the Sun's Rays in the Face of Jesus is a PARABLE used to HIDE from those OF THE WORLD.




This TRIUNE nature is well documented by Scripture and many historic Scholars. I know of no one who ever taught that Jesus was the LOGOS God Who BECAME FLESH

Within the very-late theology of "progressive" or Post-Biblical people in Churches of Christ this is defined as THREE SEPARATE persons each with their own abilities and able to commune or hold conferences.  THEY are defined as ONE GOD in that they are a friendly sort and are always in agreement. They are ranked 1, 2, 3.  H.Leo Boles of Lipscomb was FIRST anyone can find who defined the godhead which he-they never grasp is THE DIVINE NATURE or the nature of OBEYING GOD'S COMMANDS.  The Author was H.Leo Boles who first preached the view in 1938 and published his book in 1942 as the creed of churches of Christ East-wing.

Again, NO ONE ever said that the Man Jesus of Nazareth was the Lord (yhwh) god (elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.




Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32005
  • Manna: 689
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #91 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:34:28 »
Kenneth, you do realize that Elohim is a PLURAL hebrew word?

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #92 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:00:02 »
Yes, but I just follow Strongs:  Beginning in Genesis 2 Lord-God is is most often used.  The world was filled with lords and gods but Scripture is very careful to identify the ONLY REAL God is JEHOVAH.

Jer. 10:10 But the Lord is the TRUE God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Gen. 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

LORD: h3068.  Yhwh; from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; name of God:—the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

H1961 just means I EXIST and is not a name.  Jehovah is the LIVING GOD but Jesus is the SON of the Self-Existing CREATOR-GOVERNER.

GOD: h430. elohiym, el-o-heem´; plural of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, x exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), x (very) great, judges, x mighty.

h433. elowahh, el-o´-ah; rarely (shortened) ;AhølTa }eloahh, el-o´-ah} probably prolonged (emphat.) from 410; a deity or the Deity:—God, god. See 430.

h410. lEa }el, ale; shortened from 352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):—God (god), x goodly, x great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”

I don't know why the plural is most often used.

The SON in Isaiah 9 and Emmanuel is a for of ELOHIM and never

« Last Edit: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:05:33 by Kenneth Sublett »

Offline Truthcomber

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #93 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:41:23 »
This is a test

good

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #94 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:47:15 »
"One of the main arguments in favor of the trinity is the plural form of the word for God in the Hebrew Scriptures. Elohim is found comparatively seldom in the singular, and, if the "Trinity" is correct, our Bibles should read, "In the beginning Gods created the heavens and the earth." No translator will be responsible for this rendering, however, except as an argument for the Trinity. The fact that our lord sanctioned its translation in the singular as well as in the plural, should settle the question. Used of the true God, He always made it singular. As this is one of the main props of the trinitarian heresy, we will examine the facts more closely.

One of the best methods of testing the number of the name Elohim is to try it out in contexts where two members of the so-called "Trinity" use it of each other. In the forty-fifth psalm God speaks to the Son and says, "Thy throne, O Elohim, is for the eon and further" (Psa.45:7,8). Here the title is used of the Son, as distinct from His Father. If Elohim is plural, then the Son is a plurality as well as a part of the "Trinity." This is even clearer in the next verse, where we read. "Therefore God, Thy God, anoints Thee." According to this the Son not only is a plurality of Gods Himself, but has a plurality of Gods, if Elohim means more than one. Elohim, in this passage, cannot be plural. Such an idea is contrary to other scriptures which definitely protest that there is only one God (1 Cor.8:4,6). Moreover, it is evident from the form of the verb. It is not that many Gods anoint, but one God anoints. Elohim nearly always takes a singular verb.

That Elohim is always singular in this passage is absolutely settled for us, and put beyond the possibility of debate by God Himself, when He quotes it, in the first chapter of Hebrews (1:8,9). In Greek the number cannot be confused. The plural form of "God" is used in John 10:34,35; Acts 7:40; 14:11; 19:26; 1 Corinthians 8:5,5; Galatians 4:8. But God deliberately used the singular for Elohim whenever referring to Himself or His Son. For me this is final. Men may take sides and discuss this matter interminably, for there seems to be a show of evidence on both sides. What better course can be pursued than to call in an Umpire Who is qualified to decide the point? And this is just what God has done. He knows the meaning of His own name. He inspired the Greek forms which represent it. He says it is singular when applied to Himself or to His Son. Who is a better Hebrew grammarian than the Author of the Scriptures?"

Excerpt of (The Plural Form of God's Name  by A.E. Knock)  http://www.theheraldofgodsgrace.org/Knoch/ThePluralFormOfGodsName.htm

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3455
  • Manna: 115
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #95 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:54:06 »

I would like someone to answer these questions with coherent answers.

Seems to me there was a time in the Garden of Gethsemane that Jesus cried out to His father, but there was an obvious and distinct separation.

Okay, I’ll take the challenge. Just my viewpoint, of course.

In the scriptures, we find that, 1) God is the Creator of all things and, 2) God alone is eternally existing, as in no beginning. Any and every being that is shown to be created is not and cannot be God. In the same way, any and every being that is shown to not be God is therefore a created being. We do not find in scripture anybody that is eternally existing and is also not God. Therefore, anybody who is shown to be Creator is God.

Jesus is Creator of all things. John 1:3 tells us that everything that has come into being did so by Him, and that there is not anything that has come into being that did so apart from Him. That tells us two things, at least: 1) Jesus is the Creator and 2) He was not created (therefore, He is eternally existing). It has to be concluded that He is God. Not a demi-god (whatever that is), not a semi-god, not a little god, not an inferior god, not the JWs “little g” god, but God...period.

Jesus is God the Creator become flesh (John 1:14), conceived in and born to a virgin (Luke 1:26-35; 2:1-11). He was raised as a human and lived as a human and grew into a man (Luke 2:41-52). He was fully a man in the flesh; He did not just appear to be a man. The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus testify to His completely human status (John 19:17-30; 20:1-29). He was not demi-human, semi-human, etc. but fully human in the flesh. The Gnostics of the day tried to proclaim Jesus as a spirit being who appeared to be human, but John wrote in his first letter that such teachers are antichrist (1 John 4:1-3).

Was He fully God while in the flesh? Yes, but He gave up His equality with God while in the flesh (Philippians 2:5-8). I believe that means He became a servant to man and to His Father, living by faith rather than exalting Himself above His creation. He did this mainly to fulfill His ultimate role as the perfect Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, but also to serve as an example of how to live before God and toward our fellow man. His exaltation over the creation took place after His resurrection and ascension (Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 1:20-23; Philippians 2:9-11).

Jesus is not the Father. There are too many distinctions between Jesus and the Father (and the Holy Spirit). The distinctions between Jesus and the Father are found particularly in the gospel accounts, while Jesus was in the flesh. It can be argued that, 1) there are three Gods who share one indistinguishable purpose in the creation and with man, 2) there is one God who expresses Himself in three distinct ways as one person, 3) there are three persons who make up one God, and 4) possibly other definitions. I have seen good arguments for those first three, but I still think we are trying to define God’s nature much as a worm would try to define our complete nature.

In answer to the question about whether Jesus is God, it is enough for me that He is the Creator of all things, and that all things have been created by Him and for Him, and that He is before all things and by Him all things hold together (Colossians 1:16-17).

If that doesn't make Jesus Christ God, nothing does.

Offline larry2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
  • Manna: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by Grace through Faith
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #96 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 20:32:10 »
"One of the main arguments in favor of the trinity is the plural form of the word for God in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Hi BTR, I would like to ask you what your interpretation of this following scripture is saying, and whom the Lord is that the way is being made straight for. Thanks.

Mat 3:3  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #97 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 20:46:32 »
Okay, I’ll take the challenge. Just my viewpoint, of course.

In the scriptures, we find that, 1) God is the Creator of all things and, 2) God alone is eternally existing, as in no beginning. Any and every being that is shown to be created is not and cannot be God. In the same way, any and every being that is shown to not be God is therefore a created being. We do not find in scripture anybody that is eternally existing and is also not God. Therefore, anybody who is shown to be Creator is God.

Jesus is Creator of all things. John 1:3 tells us that everything that has come into being did so by Him, and that there is not anything that has come into being that did so apart from Him. That tells us two things, at least: 1) Jesus is the Creator and 2) He was not created (therefore, He is eternally existing). It has to be concluded that He is God. Not a demi-god (whatever that is), not a semi-god, not a little god, not an inferior god, not the JWs “little g” god, but God...period.

Jesus is God the Creator become flesh (John 1:14), conceived in and born to a virgin (Luke 1:26-35; 2:1-11). He was raised as a human and lived as a human and grew into a man (Luke 2:41-52). He was fully a man in the flesh; He did not just appear to be a man. The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus testify to His completely human status (John 19:17-30; 20:1-29). He was not demi-human, semi-human, etc. but fully human in the flesh. The Gnostics of the day tried to proclaim Jesus as a spirit being who appeared to be human, but John wrote in his first letter that such teachers are antichrist (1 John 4:1-3).

Was He fully God while in the flesh? Yes, but He gave up His equality with God while in the flesh (Philippians 2:5-8). I believe that means He became a servant to man and to His Father, living by faith rather than exalting Himself above His creation. He did this mainly to fulfill His ultimate role as the perfect Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, but also to serve as an example of how to live before God and toward our fellow man. His exaltation over the creation took place after His resurrection and ascension (Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 1:20-23; Philippians 2:9-11).

Jesus is not the Father. There are too many distinctions between Jesus and the Father (and the Holy Spirit). The distinctions between Jesus and the Father are found particularly in the gospel accounts, while Jesus was in the flesh. It can be argued that, 1) there are three Gods who share one indistinguishable purpose in the creation and with man, 2) there is one God who expresses Himself in three distinct ways as one person, 3) there are three persons who make up one God, and 4) possibly other definitions. I have seen good arguments for those first three, but I still think we are trying to define God’s nature much as a worm would try to define our complete nature.

In answer to the question about whether Jesus is God, it is enough for me that He is the Creator of all things, and that all things have been created by Him and for Him, and that He is before all things and by Him all things hold together (Colossians 1:16-17).

If that doesn't make Jesus Christ God, nothing does.


Quote:  (Colossians 1:16-17).

You have to keep reading, if you stop you will never come to the truth. Also, you contradict yourself so much in your post, its just silly to read it. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but your doing it to yourself and worse of all to the teaching. You should be very cautious when spreading falsehood, and its so harmful to the body. Gods Word is like a two edged sword and with no handle so it should be respected. If your not sure it seems best not to say anything, you wouldn't want to disrespect God's truth would you?

The rest of that passage tells the truth.

all things have been created through Him and for Him.

He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
  -Col.1:17-20

The New Creation, through Christ the Son of God to the Father who is God.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1368
  • Manna: 33
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #98 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 22:09:21 »
Quote
Was He fully God while in the flesh? Yes, but He gave up His equality with God while in the flesh (Philippians 2:5-8). I believe that means He became a servant to man and to His Father, living by faith rather than exalting Himself above His creation. He did this mainly to fulfill His ultimate role as the perfect Lamb who takes away the sin of the world, but also to serve as an example of how to live before God and toward our fellow man. His exaltation over the creation took place after His resurrection and ascension (Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 1:20-23; Philippians 2:9-11).

Jesus Who was MADE to be CHRIST about 30 years after He became FLESH was in the FORMA or IMAGE of God. With unlimited power and authority performed by God He became a servant or DEACON and became a slave or servant. His IMAGE of God was to SERVE the weak and helpless and not to LORD IT OVER PEOPLE.

2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
          LEST the light of the glorious gospel of CHRIST, who is the IMAGE of God, should shine unto them.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
        and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col. 1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col. 1:16 For by him were all things CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
          whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

HIS CREATION IS:

2936. kti÷zw ktizo, ktid´-zo; probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found
2932. kta¿omai ktaomai, ktah´-om-ahee; a primary verb; to get, i.e. acquire (by any means; own): — obtain, possess, provide, purchase.

PURCHASED
4046.  peripoieomai, per-ee-poy-eh´-om-ahee; middle voice from 4012 and 4160; to make around oneself, i.e. acquire (buy): — purchase.

Jesus Created or built the Church which He PURCHASED upon the absolute foundation that "I believe that Jesus is the CHRIST the son of the living God."

Of those who use that as a formula there are probably very few that practice the confession that JESUS IS THE SON of the Living God which means that He IS NOT God the Father.  If people can't grasp that then they are OF THE WORLD and are not the Lost Sheep or spirits God sent Jesus to rescue before BURNING TIMES.




A PRIMARY FORMA OF GOD IS HIS WORD, LOGOS OR REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE WHICH OUTLAWS ABOUT ANYTHING DISCIPLES CAN DO BUT "REST AND COME LEARN OF ME."

Online RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #99 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 03:44:55 »
You have to keep reading, if you stop you will never come to the truth. Also, you contradict yourself so much in your post, its just silly to read it. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but your doing it to yourself and worse of all to the teaching. You should be very cautious when spreading falsehood, and its so harmful to the body. Gods Word is like a two edged sword and with no handle so it should be respected. If your not sure it seems best not to say anything, you wouldn't want to disrespect God's truth would you?
You are wrong, not soterion, he actually did a good overall job. It's people like you, who have a little truth mixed with dammable heresy, which all error generally have, an little truth hidden in damnable heresy. The little leaven of Phariseeism is all that is needed to corrupt truth just as Jesus warned us!
Quote
Matthew 16:11,12~"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."
You twisted Colossians 1:16,17 to support your cults teaching. You said very craftily and with sleight of hands (Ephesians 4:14):
Quote from: BTR Yesterday 20:46:32
The rest of that passage tells the truth. all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.  -Col.1:17-20  The New Creation, through Christ the Son of God to the Father who is God.
I highlighted your corruption in red~You changed the word "BY" to THROUGH~ which destroys Christ's deity of being the I AM THAT I AM...the EVERLASTING Father of all thing! Jesus Christ in his ETERNAL DIVINE nature is GOD, PERIOD. Jesus is God in his complex DIVINE NATURE with no beginning and shall have no end. Jesus is the Spirit of God in his divine nature. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are ONE in their divine nature~manifested ONLY as three persons and according to each of their work in redeeming the elect of God and bringing them into ONE FOLD/FAMILY. The elect are always called God's elect, since he is before all; the Son was sent by the Father to be their surety before the law of God, thereby he was born in TIME; the Spirit of God regenerates the elect, yet these three ARE ONE GOD manifested as three ONLY according to the work of redeeming the elect.  It's really not that difficult.

In their divine nature none of the Godhead proceeded from the other~for they are ONE God manifested to us as THREE only according to the redemption of the elect. 

When ALL Is finished then the Son of God in his glorified humanity shall submit himself to God the Spirit who ALWAYS has been a Spirit and ALWAYS will be a Spirit that God may be all in all.

When we shall see God per Matthew 5:8 it will be JESUS CHRIST the Son of God in his glorified humanity! God is a Spirit which NO man has ever seen, or will ever see with his eyes EXCEPT in the person of Jesus Christ, who IS the express image of God, who is A SPIRIT.
Quote from: Paul
Colossians 1:15-17~"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
NOT through him, but BY HIM, and this is only true of Jesus' divine nature of being God, the everlasting Father of all things!

« Last Edit: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 03:57:45 by RB »

Online RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4614
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #100 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 04:17:31 »
It is not enough to say that Jesus is God.  The following questions must be answered: Is Jesus the same person as the Father?
In his divine nature YES, in his humanity NO.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is Jesus a demi god, separate in being from the Father?
Jesus is ONE with his father in his divine nature. The Son of God in his humanity.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is Jesus the same essense as the Father?
In his divine nature? YES, he is. The Word which was God, in the beginning, joined himself to the tabernacle of Jesus of Nazareth and God was seen for the FIRST TIME in the person of Jesus Christ!
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is there just one God, but Jesus is a different person from the Father?
Yes, only One God, Jesus is God's Son in his humanity~YET, proven to be the only begotten of God by his sinless life, thereby the very express image of God who is a Spirit.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Was Jesus a created being?
No, he was conceived in TIME around two thousand years ago by the power of the Highest.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is Jesus part God and part man?
No, fully BOTH.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is Jesus a man husk filled with a God spirit?
Jesus was BOTH the Son of Man and the Son of God, in whom the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwelt.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Does Jesus only appear to be a man but is actually only God?
He was FULLY both and ever separated from each other~Again, Jesus was a complex person.
Quote from: Open Heart Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 13:39:50
Is Jesus fully man and fully God?
He WAS, he IS, and he shall FOREVER BE.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #101 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 06:48:35 »
I believe that the problem here is that we have a very poor and inadequate concept of spirit, our own spirit or God's Spirit.  Every statement and every discussion about the spirit, the Spirit, the spiritual realm or things spiritual in the Bible is presented allegorically; and that for a very good reason.  We have no first hand knowledge or experience in this physical universe of the non-physical.  Even the notion of counting, such as "God is Three in One", must be dealt with in a context of "things", physical things.

There can be no question that the Holy Spirit is presented as a being separate and distinct from the Father and the Son.  The "trinitarian" statements, though few, are nevertheless real. The Holy Spirit is a "person" just as the Father and the Son are "persons". The Holy Spirit has divine attributes.  The Holy Spirit is called God.  All of this is real even though it is inconceivable to us who have only a sense of the physical.

It is not surprising that we have difficulty in the details.  After all, even God has had to rely on allegory to write about it and explain it to us.

Offline TonkaTim

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
  • Manna: 55
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #102 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 07:31:35 »
There can be no question that the Holy Spirit is presented as a being separate and distinct from the Father and the Son.

I'm not so sure that is quite the case. I think a perfect example would be Paul's writings in the Book of Romans when discussing the Spirit.

Paul calls the Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit (holy ghost), & the Spirit.

8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost
(pneumati hagio)


In this we see the three as one for it is one Spirit that dwells in man, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit; The Spirit.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6335
  • Manna: 168
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #103 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 07:50:32 »
I'm not so sure that is quite the case.

Just some of the passages that explicitly make my point of the separate and distinct person of the Holy Spirit:

Mat 28:19  "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

1Co 12:4  Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5  And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

2Co 1:21  Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
2Co 1:22  who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2Co 13:14  The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

1Pe 1:1  Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
1Pe 1:2  according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.



Offline TonkaTim

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
  • Manna: 55
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #104 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 08:03:18 »
Just some of the passages that explicitly make my point of the separate and distinct person of the Holy Spirit:

Mat 28:19  "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

1Co 12:4  Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5  And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

2Co 1:21  Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
2Co 1:22  who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2Co 13:14  The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

1Pe 1:1  Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
1Pe 1:2  according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.


Thank you for posting those. It appears they agree with Romans 8. One Spirit. Thus the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit are the same spirit. The very Spirit of God.

Which explains why Jesus says that He & the Father are one.

Why Jesus would say in prayer "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

And about the children of God "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"


They are one because they are of the same Spirit. We are made one with them by that same Spirit; the Spirit. Just as Paul testifies in Romans 8.