GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: How can Jesus Christ be God?  (Read 16099 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #140 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 11:48:33 »
True: I AM is just an incomplete sentence. I AM Kenneth and you are not. God defined His UNIQUENESS among the "lords and gods" by saying I AM the Lord-God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Jesus said I AM the Son of God.



Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #140 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 11:48:33 »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5013
  • Manna: 299
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #141 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 14:53:23 »
when using the objective pronoun "US" ,it would imply there is more that ONE... person. at Gen. 1:26, God was speaking to another, HIS SON! Jesus was CREATED, first of ALL other Angels
This is damnable heresy! Jesus Christ WAS NOT created~and he is NOT Michael the Archangel, but the MIGHTY God, the everlasting Father of ALL THING. Jehovah Witnesses doctrine is straight from the bottomless pit.

I will take heed to what Jesus said to us:
Quote from: Jesus Christ the TRUE GOD and the ONLY source of eternal life said:
Matthew 15:13,14~"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
My advice to you is this: enjoy this life for if you die believing this doctrine you shall die in your sins, this life will be your only life.
« Last Edit: Mon May 07, 2018 - 14:56:58 by RB »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #141 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 14:53:23 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #142 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 15:16:32 »
The account in Genesis 1 speaks of the ELOHIM but not Jehovah the only REAL Elohim in chapter 2.  Moses is warning the Israelites whom god had sentenced back to Babylon captivity and death because of the idolatry at Mount Sinai.

In Chapter Two LORD-GOD is always used because while there were many gods or ELOHIM there is only one Lord (yhwh) God (elohim)

In Isaiah 45 God said that HE didn't create the earth as virtually destroyed.
And "The gods or elohim HAVE NOT made heaven and earth.
Moses is speaking of the Creation of the Hebrew Nation by rescuing them from the destruction of the Sumerians.

John Calvin noted

God." Moses has it Elohim, a noun of the plural number.
      Whence the inference is drawn, that the three Persons of the Godhead are here noted;
      but since, as a proof of so great a matter,
      it appears to me to have little solidity, will not insist upon the word;
      but rather caution readers to beware of violent glosses of this, kind. [notes added]

"They think that they have testimony against the Asians, to prove the Deity of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    The motive for adding the violent glosses was not based upon scholarship but upon the unholy urge to destroy the argument of others.

"but in the meantime they involve themselves in the error of Sabellius, because Moses afterwards subjoins that the Elohim had spoken, and that the holy Spirit of the Elohim rested upon the waters.

If we suppose three persons to be here denoted, there will be no distinction between them. For it will follow,

    both that the Son is begotten by himself,
    and that the Spirit is not of the Father, but of himself.

    For me it is sufficient that the plural number expresses those powers which God exercised in creating the world.

Moreover I acknowledge that the Scripture, although it recites many powers of the Godhead, yet always recalls us to the Father, and his Word, and spirit, as we shall shortly see

But those absurdities, to which I have alluded, forbid us with subtlety to distort what Moses simply declares concerning God himself, by applying it to the separate Persons of the Godhead.

This, however, I regard as beyond controversy, that from the peculiar circumstance of the passage itself, a title is here ascribed to God, expressive of that powers which was previously in some way included in his eternal essence.

    He hath made the earth by his POWER,
    he hath established the world by his WISDOM,
    and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding. Jer 51:15

    When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens;
    and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth:
    he maketh lightnings with rain,
    and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. Jer 51:16


Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #142 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 15:16:32 »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #143 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 22:11:33 »
Only devils wanted to receive worship from man. The angels sent from God forbid man to worship them and bond to them, becomming one , as they knew what would happen to them . Being one with a angel....No No No. Jesus received worship from man when he walked the earth and still does today . When Jesus was praying that we would be one with him and the father as he is ......he wouldnt even dare go there if he was angel. Proving he is God. This relationship was only between God and man. not man and angels.
« Last Edit: Mon May 07, 2018 - 22:14:59 by bemark »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #143 on: Mon May 07, 2018 - 22:11:33 »

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #144 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 11:25:29 »
I find it truly incredible that on this site called "Grace Centered Forum" someone has to defend the DEITY of Jesus
Christ. That is a basic tenet of the Christian faith. The Divinity of Jesus is one of the cardinal tenets that heretics will attack---
they will "deny the Lord that bought them".  I will offer one last post, though all the other posts showed insurmountable
evidence that Jesus Christ is Jehovah.

In the Book of John, chapter 1 Nathanael comes to Jesus. Jesus sees him approaching:

"When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”
“How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.
Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.
Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”
Jesus said, “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that
" (John 1:47-50)

For the willfully blind I will point out a few things that show the Divinity of Jesus:

Jesus says He SAW Nathanel under the fig tree before Philip called him. This shows OMNISCIENCE AND OMNIPRESENCE---and NATHANAEL RECOGNIZED IT----IT AMAZED HIM
SO MUCH HE SAID
:   "YOU ARE THE KING OF ISRAEL"  How could a mere man "SEE" him under a fig tree? (perhaps miles away) A mere man could not---only
GOD could have seen him there.  This is what causes Nathanael's declaratiion. He calls Jesus THE KING OF ISRAEL.  Does Jesus deny this title?
No---He does not---he accepts it and says "because I said I saw you under the fig tree you believe?" He is ACCEPTING the title of KING OF ISRAEL.

But WHO IS THE KING OF ISRAEL?

I am the LORD, your Holy One, Israel's Creator, YOUR KING." (Isaiah 43:15)

No one should have to come here to defend the DEITY of Jesus Christ. It is clearly shown to us in Scripture.

« Last Edit: Tue May 08, 2018 - 11:38:48 by fish153 »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #144 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 11:25:29 »



Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #145 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 12:26:00 »
Why Doubt that God gave--as Jesus claimed--all power and authority when He gave Baalim's Donkey the power to speak.  Whatever Jesus did it was God working with Him and others:

Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

God was the LORD of Israel until the elders "fired" Him and demanded a KING LIKE THE NATIONS.
Lord is YHWH but Jesus was LORD or Kurios.  God is the only KING of the Universe.
The Elders rejected that and made David KING OF ISRAEL.
The only spiritual ISRAEL is the SEED of ABRAHAM Who was NOT a SEMITE.

Hos. 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
Hos. 13:10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities?
        and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
Hos. 13:11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath.


Matt. 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel,
        let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Matt. 27:43 He TRUSTED in God; let him deliver him now,
        if he will have him: for he said, I AM THE SON OF GOD
Matt. 27:46 And about the ninth hour JESUS cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
        that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD why hast thou FORSAKEN me?

MOCKING:
Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross,
            that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Mark 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
Mark 15:26 And the superscription of his ACCUSATION was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Mark 15:27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
Mark 15:29 And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying,
        Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
Mark 15:30 Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
Mark 15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

John 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him,
        Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi,
        Thou art the SON OF GOD; thou art the King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him,
        Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou?
         thou shalt see greater things than these.
John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
        Hereafter ye shall see heaven open,
        and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the SON OF MAN

        Num. 23:19 GOD IS NOT A MAN, that he should lie;
                neither the SON OF MAN , that he should repent:
                hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #145 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 12:26:00 »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #146 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 12:44:33 »
Copyed and pasted this because its true

Jesus  Accepts Worship, Therefore He is God
Posted on November 9, 2010 by humblesmith
Here is a list of verses where Jesus accepts worship. Contrast this with the passage in Revelation where John falls down before an angel……..the angel stops him, and tells him to not do that. In Acts, Paul is called a God by the people of Lystra……Paul stops them, and reminds them he is only a man. No where in scripture does anyone in a right relationship with God accept worship. Accepting worship is reserved for God Almighty alone.

By accepting worship, Jesus is either God almighty or a demon from the pit of hell…..there is no in-between, halfway position. Therefore by accepting worship, Jesus shows Himself to be the Lord God Almighty.

Matthew 2:11: And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him.

Matthew 14:33:  And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9-10:  And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:16-17:  Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luke 24:51:  While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy

John 9:37-38:  Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.” 38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

Hebrews 1:6:  And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 22:3:  No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12148
  • Manna: 349
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #147 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:01:30 »
" because the Name was held in such reverence"

I wonder when that tradition began?

I ask because when one reads the Book of Ruth we find in the dialogue normal every day folks used & spoke the name.
Sometime during the intertestamental period.  None of the OT books use a substitution, but the book of Matthew does (the kingdom of heaven is at hand).

In the Dead Sea Scrolls (1st century), God's name already receives special treatment.  While the Dead Sea Scrolls are written in a recognizably modern Hebrew script, wherever YHVH is written, it has been written in an older/archaic script of the language... a proto-Hebrew script.

Jarrod

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12148
  • Manna: 349
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #148 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:04:14 »
I AM is just an incomplete sentence.
It's a complete sentence in English.  It contains a subject and a verb.

Who here is a speaker of English?

I am.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #148 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:04:14 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #149 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:07:51 »
Your trust leaps of "faith" to TRUMP all of Scripture.  You undoubtedly worship your preacher and musical performers because you ADORE them and PAY them.  However, Jesus didn't come to establish a WORSHIP CENTER so that we bow to God by GIVING HEED to thee WORD. Christians are Disciples are students who attend BIBLE SCHOOL because the kingdom DOES NOT COME with religious OBSERVATIONS.

Jesus was not bound to respond to whatever people did.  You exercise too much control over himl.

Jesus always said that He was a MAN and the SON OF MAN with FLESH AND BONES. Why so anxious to use any excuse to DENY that Jesus as the Christ (neither God defining Words) CAME IN THE FLESH. If you deny that Jesus was FLESH AND BONES John Calls that ANTICHRIST.

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him.
       And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant,
        and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
        WORSHIP GOD: for the TESTIMONY of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Jesus would be a PROPHET like Moses and TAKEN OF THY BRETHREN.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD,
         and one mediator between God and men,
         the MAN Christ Jesus;


Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12148
  • Manna: 349
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #150 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:09:14 »
If we can't refer to our Father as a person; right or wrong, and though He is the majesty on high, why is He using the word "US" in Gen 1:26  And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness, or for that matter taking the personage of Father?
"US" is a word supplied by the translator...it isn't part of the verse in Hebrew.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #151 on: Tue May 08, 2018 - 13:15:49 »
The US in Genesis would prove that the ELOHIM was MALE AND FEMALE?


In Scripture I AM does not make sense and is therefore further defined.

I work is a complete sentence

A sentence is complete when it contains both a subject and verb. A complete sentence makes sense on its own. Every sentence must have a subject, which usually appears at the beginning of the sentence. ... A verb is often an action word that indicates what the subject is doing.

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #152 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 06:33:48 »
The account in Genesis 1 speaks of the ELOHIM but not Jehovah the only REAL Elohim in chapter 2.  Moses is warning the Israelites whom god had sentenced back to Babylon captivity and death because of the idolatry at Mount Sinai.

In Chapter Two LORD-GOD is always used because while there were many gods or ELOHIM there is only one Lord (yhwh) God (elohim)

In Isaiah 45 God said that HE didn't create the earth as virtually destroyed.
And "The gods or elohim HAVE NOT made heaven and earth.
Moses is speaking of the Creation of the Hebrew Nation by rescuing them from the destruction of the Sumerians.

John Calvin noted

God." Moses has it Elohim, a noun of the plural number.
      Whence the inference is drawn, that the three Persons of the Godhead are here noted;
      but since, as a proof of so great a matter,
      it appears to me to have little solidity, will not insist upon the word;
      but rather caution readers to beware of violent glosses of this, kind. [notes added]

"They think that they have testimony against the Asians, to prove the Deity of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    The motive for adding the violent glosses was not based upon scholarship but upon the unholy urge to destroy the argument of others.

"but in the meantime they involve themselves in the error of Sabellius, because Moses afterwards subjoins that the Elohim had spoken, and that the holy Spirit of the Elohim rested upon the waters.

If we suppose three persons to be here denoted, there will be no distinction between them. For it will follow,

    both that the Son is begotten by himself,
    and that the Spirit is not of the Father, but of himself.

    For me it is sufficient that the plural number expresses those powers which God exercised in creating the world.

Moreover I acknowledge that the Scripture, although it recites many powers of the Godhead, yet always recalls us to the Father, and his Word, and spirit, as we shall shortly see

But those absurdities, to which I have alluded, forbid us with subtlety to distort what Moses simply declares concerning God himself, by applying it to the separate Persons of the Godhead.

This, however, I regard as beyond controversy, that from the peculiar circumstance of the passage itself, a title is here ascribed to God, expressive of that powers which was previously in some way included in his eternal essence.

    He hath made the earth by his POWER,
    he hath established the world by his WISDOM,
    and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding. Jer 51:15

    When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens;
    and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth:
    he maketh lightnings with rain,
    and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. Jer 51:16




Chapter one also makes emphasis on speaking and seeing, the opposite of graven images or gods.

In chapter 2 YHWH is forming, breathing and planting. and the sequence of things in 2 are different, nothing had yet sprung up, no man to til the ground. I always thought that chapter one was an overview or something.
Points like in the quote seem like 1 is also serving as a trip wire. There are denominations that believe in and practice speaking things into existence like God did, they say and teach.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #153 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 10:53:52 »
I agree with that.  Light speaks of INSTRUCTION and darkness speaks of IGNORANCE. It is well understood that the bound Bible is not a "book" but a "library" of various views.  Some of Genesis 1 fits the Sumerian Cosmology and theology took men and animal captivity and forced the once-free people to work FOR the city-state to get their animals back.  In exchange the towers in Babylon and Jerusalem promised to protect you from the evil "gods." The TRUE CREATION is by God in Latin is:

The Hebrew h1254 BARA a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Facio , fashion, for.  to induce, spīrĭtus ANIMO   
    ANIMO   B. To quicken, animate C. To endow with, to give, a particular temperament or disposition of mind

Jesus said that truth had been HIDDEN IN PARABLES from the FOUNDATION of the World: Jesus spoke in parables to HIDE THE TRUTH IN PLAIN SIGHT from the religious mercantile class.

Job used the word PARABLE twice:



Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #154 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 12:34:49 »
The Hebrew BARA does not mean CREATE OUT OF NOTHING.  Peter says that it was made of the UNSEEN.  The ways the word is used might prove that God made something NEW our of the existing totally worthless order. We have no Scripture to indicated that mankind was created BC 4004 along with the hundreds of billion galazies with hundreds of millions of star and each with planets and moons.

Rather,  the Bible speaks of the rescue and perfection of the DUST or "Aborigines" by breathing inspiration into them to be able to educate them.


Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #155 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 15:18:55 »
Your trust leaps of "faith" to TRUMP all of Scripture.  You undoubtedly worship your preacher and musical performers because you ADORE them and PAY them.  However, Jesus didn't come to establish a WORSHIP CENTER so that we bow to God by GIVING HEED to thee WORD. Christians are Disciples are students who attend BIBLE SCHOOL because the kingdom DOES NOT COME with religious OBSERVATIONS.

Jesus was not bound to respond to whatever people did.  You exercise too much control over himl.

Jesus always said that He was a MAN and the SON OF MAN with FLESH AND BONES. Why so anxious to use any excuse to DENY that Jesus as the Christ (neither God defining Words) CAME IN THE FLESH. If you deny that Jesus was FLESH AND BONES John Calls that ANTICHRIST.

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him.
       And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant,
        and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
        WORSHIP GOD: for the TESTIMONY of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Jesus would be a PROPHET like Moses and TAKEN OF THY BRETHREN.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD,
         and one mediator between God and men,
         the MAN Christ Jesus;


Kennith i get so lost in the amount of content that you post. I work a bit slower so maybe one or 2 points i can deal with at a time.

I dont worship anybody but God and that includes the Holy Spirit and Jesus. You know you can have a relationship with each one in the spirit realm and it is the same anointing once the action has taken place. What lingers behind.

 So here we have below those who could not understand who Jesus was because they did not know the father. Yes in word as a bible school parot preacher they could  say this about him ....But they never knew him, and because they never knew him they could not reconise the one standing before them as God. Depart from my prescence because I NEVER  KNEW YOU.

 We established above that Jesus Christ received worship from fallen men so proves he is God. To say he let that slide and take the Glory of God for himself  would just be crazy , unless he was in a cult and wanted to be God , like satan did. or maybe he really was  God , so he didnt have to say anything like “ please dont worship me” like all the other angels did .  I am the way the truth and the life ....How could he say one thing and live a lie the next. Was and is he not TRUTH . No he didnt let it slide because , he was God , so it was right for man to worship God even in his man state.


John 8

Jesus Defends His Self-Witness
13 The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”

14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. 17 It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”

19 Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?”

Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”

20 These words Jesus spoke in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no one laid hands on Him, for His hour had not yet come.
« Last Edit: Wed May 09, 2018 - 15:37:02 by bemark »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #156 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 17:03:59 »
Quote
John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

That does not mean that JESUS is the FATHER

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to ME of my FATHER:
        and no man KNOWETH who the Son is, BUT the Father;
        and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Therefore, you know the FATHER when the SON reveals Him. 

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
        The SON can do nothing of HIMSELF, but what he seeth the FATHER do:
        for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

End time false teachers SEE VISION (Lucado) or HEAR audible voices (Shelly).  Except for the exgtreme foolish, "Whatever you do in Word or Deed, do all in the NAME of the LORD."

Jesus said MY WORDS Judge you: That is why His bringing about a new heaven and earth is RESERVED UNTO FIRE.

John 8:26 I have many things to SAY and to JUDGE of you:
        but HE that sent me is true;
 and I speak to the WORLD those things which I have heard of him.
John 8:27 They understood not that HE spake to them of the FATHER.

Jesus doesn't PRAY for the World, Kosmos, Ecumenicah or the kingdom of the devil in conflict with the kingdom of Christ.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,
        When YE have lifted up the SON OF MAN
        then shall ye know that I am he,
        and that I do NOTHING of myself;
        but as my FATHER hath TAUGHT me, I SPEAK these things.

WIND OR BREATH is a human word meaning only the unknown way the Father communicates to the Son.
That Breath transfers the MENTAL DISPOSITION or the PLAN (Word, Logos) of the FATHER ONLY.
When Jesus SPEAKS the Word or makes it flesh, He says "MY words are SPIRIT and LIFE."

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me:
        the Father hath not LEFT ME ALONG me alone;
        for I do always those things that please him.

IF YOU ARE OF THE WORLD THEN YOU CAN READ THAT AND SAY THAT THE SON WAS THE FATHER.  That is not to CONVERT but to JUDGE
« Last Edit: Wed May 09, 2018 - 17:08:19 by Kenneth Sublett »

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #157 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 17:32:36 »
No---the Son is not the Father--they are different persons in the Godhead.

"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him
". (John 5:21-23)

If the Father judges no man who will be sitting on the Great White Throne?  ALL judgment has been committed to the Son.

Now---if the Son "quickens whom He WILL" and ALL JUDGMENT is commited to Him wouldn't He have to be an eternal being?  If we honor the Son as
we honor the Father are we not honoring them EQUALLY?  But if Jesus is a created being (finite) how could that be? He must be an infinite, eternal being.

Again we see that Jesus is God without a doubt.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #158 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 18:42:51 »
Be you a CARP or a SUCKER or TRASH FISH or FLOUNDER that's what you are supposed to believe!
« Last Edit: Wed May 09, 2018 - 19:57:31 by Kenneth Sublett »

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #159 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 19:15:55 »
No---the Son is not the Father--they are different persons in the Godhead.

"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him
". (John 5:21-23)

If the Father judges no man who will be sitting on the Great White Throne?  ALL judgment has been committed to the Son.

Now---if the Son "quickens whom He WILL" and ALL JUDGMENT is commited to Him wouldn't He have to be an eternal being?  If we honor the Son as
we honor the Father are we not honoring them EQUALLY?  But if Jesus is a created being (finite) how could that be? He must be an infinite, eternal being.

Again we see that Jesus is God without a doubt.

No.


Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,

even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
  -Jhn.17:1-3


I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa. 45:5,6

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.  -Isa. 45:21

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #160 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 19:51:44 »
Quote
even as You gave Him AUTHORITY over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

We have seen this over and over: If Jesus is able to do anything He MUST BE GOD.

That denies all that Jesus and others said that Jesus worked miracles with God working through him

That also despises the Father:

1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men,
        the witness of God is greater:
        for this is the witness of God which he hath testified OF HIS SON
1John 5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
        he that believeth not God hath made him a liar;
        because he believeth NOT the record that GOD gave of HIS SON
1John 5:11 And this is the RECORD,
         that GOD hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in HIS SON
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life;
         and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you
          that believe on the NAME of the SON of God;
          that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
          and that ye may believe on the name of the SON OF GOD

1John 5:19 And we know that we are OF God,
           and the whole WORLD lieth in wickedness.
1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come,
           and hath given us an UNDERSTANDING,
           that we may KNOW him that is true,
           and we are in him that is true, even in his SON JESUS CHRIST

           This is the true God, and eternal life.

Jesus is not the TRUE GOD but the TRUTH of God has been delivered to HIS SON--only.

GODHEAD does not mean a three-headed God.  Jesus was filled with the DIVINE NATURE. His Divinity does not make Jesus the FATHER GOD but means "The nature to obey God's Will."

The TRUE God:

Is One God the Father
And One mediator the MAN Jesus Christ.

THE FALSE GOD: That believes the Greek and modern theology that HERMES was a literal GOD AND MEDIATOR.

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #161 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 19:56:36 »
The Hebrew BARA does not mean CREATE OUT OF NOTHING.  Peter says that it was made of the UNSEEN.  The ways the word is used might prove that God made something NEW our of the existing totally worthless order. We have no Scripture to indicated that mankind was created BC 4004 along with the hundreds of billion galazies with hundreds of millions of star and each with planets and moons.

Rather,  the Bible speaks of the rescue and perfection of the DUST or "Aborigines" by breathing inspiration into them to be able to educate them.




I agree. There are a few things I have found that do disturb me a little, the older versions of the flood story but with different characters and the story about Moses being put in the river. Some say he took those stories and wrote himself into them. I don't know what to do with some of that information yet.


"God made something NEW out of the existing totally worthless order."  Im walking proof of that brother....


Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #162 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 20:51:30 »
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;


We are conformed to the image of His Son when we are born again, now we live and walk like He walked, as sons by the power of The Father who alone is God.

For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
saying,
“I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,
IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

And again,
“I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”
And again,
“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.”
  -Heb.2:11-13

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #163 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 21:12:03 »
Hi Kenneth

2 questions with a yes or no to it. ( Please) I understand its not easy as life is not black and white but shades of grey. So yes please explain yourself on why you said either yes or no. Please keep it simple

1) Did Jesus on earth recieve worship from men. Yes or no?

2 ) If Jesus was not God , was it a sin to take this worship for himself?

I understand Jesus is not the father  just like the peel of a orange is not the juice nor the flesh of it. But it is a part that makes up the orange . They all are one but seperate.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #164 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 21:16:54 »
1 God = Father / Son / Holy Spirit     

1 Orange = Peel / Flesh / Juice


Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #165 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 21:40:51 »
1+1+1= 3.  There are not 3 God's

1x1x1= 1.  There are 3 persons in One God.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1720
  • Manna: 37
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #166 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 22:47:37 »
I'm not too good at Yes and No.  Here is some thinking stuff.

Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship ME, all shall be thine.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him,
Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written,
        THOU [Satan?] shalt WORSHIP  the Lord thy God,
        And him only shalt thou SERVE.

Both WORSHIP and the parallel SERVE are what seems prohibited.

WORSHIP g4352.  proskuneo, pros-koo-neh´-o; from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): — worship.

This is a common word
Aeschylus and Herodotus down; the Sept. very often for הִשְׁתַּחֲוָה (to prostrate oneself); properly, to kiss the hand to (toward) one, in token of reverence: Herodotus 1, 134; (cf. K. F. Hermann, Gottesdienstl. Alterthümer d. Griech. § 21; especially Hoelemann, Die Biblical Gestalt. d. Anbetung in his 'Bibelstudien' i., 106ff); hence, among the Orientals, especially the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence ("to make a 'salam'")

Worship with intent to SERVE

SERVE is  g3000.  latreuo, lat-ryoo´-o; from atris (a hired menial); to minister (to God), i.e. render religious homage: — serve, do the service, worship(-per).

All servants showed reverence to their master.

Matt. 18:26 The SERVANT therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Matt. 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid:
        go tell MY BRETHREN that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

They were not GOD'S BRETHREN.

Matt. 28:16 Then the ELEVEN DISCIPLES away into Galilee, into a mountain
        where JESUS had apointed them
Matt. 28:17 And when they saw him, they WORSHIPPED HIM: but some doubted.

Jesus called them BRETHREN so He know that anyone who showed reverence did not think that He was GOD

The Jews said that making himself God would be BLASPHEMY. Jesus  responded:

John 10:36 Say ye of HIM,
          whom the Father hath sanctified, (At His Baptism)
          and sent into the world,
          Thou blasphemest;
          because I said, I am the Son of God?

You are saying that Jesus was stupid: He should have said "I am 1/3 god" or as you say, yes, you are correct I am God.

An IMPERFECT "person" cannot sanctify another "imperfect" person.  You and many Theologians (the study of Apollon) think that the CREATOR-RULER of the Universe cannot really create, as the sillly people say, until the SPIRIT finishes his part.

GOD is the singular Lord God
The Son of God (sanctified believers) cannot be an IMPERFECT one of three IMPERFECTS in order to make a WHOLE God.  God is not like ANYTHING you can imagine so He sent JESUS to represent all that we needed to know.


Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #167 on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 23:09:43 »
I am saying that one who whorshiped the son also worshiped the father because he is the pathway , he is the door . No one comes to the Father but through the son.

The light switch / the wire / the bulb

all seperate but one. each a seperate function of the Godhead so we  could be with them . And they wanted us to share our life with them. Angels were excluded from this.

God is so complex ..how can we really know him, let  really anything about him. He is above us . In all our thinking . When we look at the heavens and how vast they are , it blows our minds. he stretches his hands out and he is more than that.



Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5013
  • Manna: 299
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #168 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 04:22:07 »
1+1+1= 3.  There are not 3 God's

1x1x1= 1.  There are 3 persons in One God.

Fish my brother, you believe the way I do, just when it comes down to it, there are different manifestations of the Godhead according to their respective work, and the timing of that work in the redemption of God's elect. I labor carefully to protect Jesus' complex nature as the I AM THAT I AM, with no beginning and no end eternal both ways and the Son of God conceived two thousand years ago in the womb of a virgin named Mary.  Teaching that Jesus was God manifested in the likeness of human flesh, but God was NOT Jesus but is a Spirit that dwells in eternity, always has, always will whose glory no angel or man has ever seen or can see EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST who is the express image of God. It's called the mystery of godliness and without controversy is a great mystery.  We simply receive God's testimony concerning it, for with Him all things are possible. This is the greatest of all of God's miracles the greatest display of his wisdom and power in Jesus being BOTH God and man in ONE PERSON, and the two natures never interact with each other but kept totally separate from each other. 
« Last Edit: Thu May 10, 2018 - 04:25:44 by RB »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #169 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:35:09 »
Yes Jesus Christ the 2nd Adam without sin showing us the way to the Father. Becoming now the way. Without him there was no way. We was doomed.

Holy Spirt takes us into and through the doorway, along the pathway so we can now be with our Father . Who is this way. Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the way of the Lord our God .

How is this done....by becoming one with him. Spiritual infusion . Then once this is done we now seek him with all our heart soul and body. We cannot seek him until we are joined with him because we were blind before. The seeking is with our spirit man because God is spirit so this is how we see him, experience him.....Love Him
« Last Edit: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:50:35 by bemark »

Online 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6905
  • Manna: 210
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #170 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:37:08 »
And just where to we read, specifically, about this "spiritual infusion"?

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
  • Manna: 139
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #171 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:53:39 »
Yes Jesus Christ the 2nd Adam without sin showing us the way to the Father. Becoming now the way. Without him there was no way. We was doomed.

Holy Spirt takes us into and through the doorway, along the pathway so we can now be with our Father . Who is this way. Jesus Christ our Lord. This is the way of the Lord our God .

How is this done....by becoming one with him. Spiritual infusion . Then once this is done we now seek him with all our heart soul and body. We cannot seek him until we are joined with him because we were blind before.

I don't believe there is any influence of the Spirit that makes us want to do something that we otherwise would not want. We have full freewill.

This "wanting to seek Him" takes place prior to salvation (prior to joining Him) so that the person can become a child of God, by hearing the gospel and wanting to respond to Christ with faith and allegiance. Afterward, this child of God still has the freedom to follow God's will or otherwise.

Online 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6905
  • Manna: 210
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #172 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:55:34 »
I don't believe there is any influence of the Spirit that makes us want to do something that we otherwise would not want. We have full freewill.

This "wanting to seek Him" takes place prior to salvation (prior to joining Him) so that the person can become a child of God, by hearing the gospel and wanting to respond to Christ with faith and allegiance. Afterward, this child of God still has the freedom to follow God's will or otherwise.
+1

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #173 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:57:27 »
And because we are body soul and spirit we get the impact through all our entire bein. So our body rejoices because when we be with him ......He is Love......he is Joy......he is peace. Our soul is in green pastures , our cup overflows. He is the honey the marrow. We are so filled up , we have to talk about him because he is so good.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #174 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:59:45 »
Hi 4wd

Do you pray and spent time with God in Word and Spirit. Yes you do

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

     
anything