GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: How can Jesus Christ be God?  (Read 17850 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #175 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:06:22 »
we cant seek him until there is a desire to do that. wanting to know about him. sure. but not seek him because he is spirit. There is only one way to the Father , through the son. Thats spirit not word education. Its when our spirit that is joined to him starts to experience him in his vastness

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #175 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:06:22 »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #176 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:08:25 »
Thats when you find him and find him again and again and again.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #176 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:08:25 »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #177 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:18:11 »
Salvaction is like stepping of a plane into a new country. You now get to search it out if you seek it. We have been given the right to now know Father God. The kingdom of heaven, the spirit realm. Some stay in there seats . your choice

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #177 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:18:11 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #178 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:21:32 »
Gen. 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
           and that every IMAGINATION of the THOUGHTS of his HEART w
           as only EVIL continually.
Gen. 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart,
          I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake;
          for the IMAGINATION of man’s heart is evil from his youth;
          neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

That's a real AMARK especially when you Call all of Scripture, Jesus and the Prophets by God breathing the HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST liars.

BMARK

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
       the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you I speak NOT of myself:
       but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

CMARK Father-Son dwell ONLY in those who KEEP CHRIST'S COMMANDMENTS in the same sense that WE dwell IN Father-Son.

2Cor. 4:13 We having the same spirit OF faith,
        according as it is WRITTEN, I BELIEVED, and therefore have I SPOKEN;
        we also BELIEVE, and therefore SPEAK;

How do I know? The Holy Spirit OF Christ breathed into the PROPHETS is the ONLY Speaking-Reading material for a CHRISTIAN.  That gives a CLEAR way of escape when false teachers use their HUMAN imagination BELIEVING that they are superior to ALL RECORDED SCRIPTURE.



Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #178 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:21:32 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #179 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:31:08 »
Just responding to a past post not yours Kenneth

Paul was saying and praying that he would know God more. He was seeking him

Philippians 3:10-14 King James Version (KJV)

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

King James Version (KJV)

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #179 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:31:08 »



Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #180 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:38:25 »
Kenneth you say much,  but i am lost in how much you say. please be simple so i can figure it out. sorry my mind dosent comprehend what you are trying to say  to me. Just be simple and direct . I havent  done any study as a paper on it. I havent been to bible school.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #180 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:38:25 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #181 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:46:05 »
I know because I follow the absolute MARK to post SCRIPTURE. I went to a school of Electronics Engineering but I learned to read the Bible by reading the BIBLE.  You keep using YOUR opinions to REFUTE the clear statements of All of Scripture that there IS ONE GOD and HE is complete within Himself.  HE IS EVERYTHING but for understanding Scripture

The ONE GOD THE FATHER conceives
The ONE GOD THE FATHER breaths (spirit is not an orange peel)
The ONE GOD THE FATHER articulates the WORD.

For the Kingdom of Christ, Jesus of NAZARETH makes visible and audible all of the ASPECTS of God required to COMMUNICATE with humans.

2Th. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
        whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth,
        and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan
        with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
        because they received not the love of the truth,
        that they might be saved.

2Th. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
        that they should believe a lie:
2Th. 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,
        but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #182 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 09:54:26 »
I have never said there is more than one God.

So shall we get back to the one or 2 points.

1 ) did Jesus accept worship from man

2) would this be a sin if he was not God

a simple yes or no would be fine and then we can debate that. Its only 2 questions

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #183 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:00:42 »
Did Jesus lead a sinless life ?

its not hard questions

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #183 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:00:42 »

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #184 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:15:05 »
Responding to a past post

Where is the free will in this .

2 Corinthians 4:4 New King James Version (NKJV)

4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.




Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7417
  • Manna: 225
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #185 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:15:24 »
  You keep using YOUR opinions to REFUTE the clear statements of All of Scripture...
And that is of course just what you are doing.  And so many of YOUR opinions are just plain wrong.  You are very much like what Reagan said about Democrats  -- "It is not that they don't know anything, it is just that so much of what they know is wrong."

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #186 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:25:39 »
Its like living in North Korea. you only going to think a certain way. Under the influence of a ungodly goverment. Thats why we was translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. now we seek a new life. Not the life of flesh that says , its  outside to in  , so we fill the desires of our flesh, but we know as his children its inside radiating out.  Thats how we get our flesh cravings under control. From the kingdom within.  Have you spent time in this place , that is within you?

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7417
  • Manna: 225
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #187 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:40:23 »
Have you spent time in this place , that is within you?
I think that is a question that you shouldn't even be asking.  You have no ability to even assess or analyse an answer.  The only person that you should be asking that of is yourself.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #188 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 10:58:48 »
Is a question we ask of oursleves and each other . We love our neighbour as ourself. So many times we fail in this simple christian task. We dont meet with God daily,  we dont read his word. etc etc whats going wrong in my life

we encourage each other in this. yes or no. Whats wrong in this i do not know?

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #189 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:04:36 »
Lying Wonders: -Teratourg-eô, A. WORK wonders, pseudôsti Sch.Pi.I.7(6).13.

    Lying is -Pseudes  2. fiction (opposite logos, historic
           - Muthos
            2. fiction (Opposite logos, historic truth)

Jesus made the WORD of God both Visible and Audible. I quoted one of the universal claim of Jesus that HE SPOKE only what the ONE GOD THE FATHER breathed into Him as SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE.  Metron means METER as in musical or rhetorical meter always known to FOOL the foolish.

A Christian is a Disciple and a Disciple is a STUDENT: Jesus commanded that we teach and observe WHAT HE COMMANDED. That includes the PROPHETS Who spoke what God BREATHED into them: This was the same Spirit OF God or Spirit of Christ (His anointed).  Jesus made these prophecies more certain and Peter and others outlawed private interpretation or FURTHER EXPOUND. That would DESPISE the Spirit OF God Who Who defined the CHURCH OF CHRIST both inclusively and exclusively.

The Bible is in pretty clear ENGLISH because Paul wrote only what they could COMPREHEND.
That INCLUSIVE-EXCLUSIVE is the Word or Logos WHICH is what God SPEAKS.



THERE IS NO PERSON INSIDE OF YOUR CARNAL BODY: The Spirit in the form of a dove or CARRIER PIGEON rested UPON Jesus and did not fly INTO Him.  The SPIRIT has been put into WORDS.


Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #190 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:08:01 »
is it ungodly to encourage each other to expand there relationship with the Godhead?  Do i want encouragement myself.Yes i do . Bring it on. Why would you be upset with this? I dont understand

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #191 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:09:31 »
Because YOU don't know and will not grasp WHAT IS A GODHEAD?

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #192 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:26:15 »
4 wd you can analise the kingdom around someones life , you just can. You just have to enter the spirit realm that is around them. It is simple to do and we love each other . I dont go there because its there life unless I am  asked to do so. I dont want to know stuff sometimes so i keep it simple. If i smash stuff they have to hold it. So i dont bother because its dominion and occupation.If they cant hold it its just war in everything around them. The reason im saying this is because the place within you is the relam that we defeat the devil . its the place that opens up the spirit relam around you. the stepping stone to,entering the kingdom of our God that is above you when you feel the wind off heaven come  in. the rung of the ladder that ascends into heaven, glory to glory

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #193 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:27:58 »
2 questions Kenneth please

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #194 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:39:44 »
1 ) did Jesus accept worship from man
Answer: He never corrected anyone who showed Him reverence.

2) would this be a sin if he was not God
Answer: No.  The Devil wanted Jesus to worship AND serve him.
             Jesus said that THOU should worship AND Serve only God.

The context proves that they were adoring or showing reverence for their BROTHER Jesus of Nazareth.

There is no way to REASON that Jesus was GOD the Father which TRUMPS all of the CLEAR STATEMENTS. Paul silences BOTH MALE AND FEMALE because:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD
         and one mediator between God and men,
         the MAN Christ Jesus;


Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #195 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:08:18 »
So Kennith  Question 1) are you saying that Jesus deceived the people who was worshipping him?  Did he usurp the authority of almighty of  God in doing this?

By saying nothing was he saying I am your God and I will accept the worship  due to me?

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #196 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:19:29 »
Im not getting you here , what do u mean when they are showing reveranve for there brother Jesus . Who was The other brother?  This is when i need help because its not making sence to me?

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #197 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:28:08 »
Kennith do you believe that Jesus Christ is a created being like satan is. Is Jesus Christ and satan brothers? Both angels?

is this,what you believe?

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7417
  • Manna: 225
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #198 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:34:43 »
4 wd you can analise the kingdom around someones life , you just can. You just have to enter the spirit realm that is around them.
Enter the spirit realm tha is around them???  I don't even know what that means, let alone how to do it.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #199 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:37:22 »
Im  off to bed Kenneth. Just finished 3 12hour nightshifts so im a bit tired. look forward to speaking in the future. Mark

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #200 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:41:04 »
I will put on my mourning garments!

Rom. 1:1  Paul, a servant of Jesus , called to be an apostle,
          separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom. 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
         which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
         according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

That's third grade reading.

Deut. 18:15  The Lord thy God
        will raise up unto thee A PROPHET
        from the MIDST of thee, of thy BRETHREN,
        LIKE unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deut. 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb
        in the day of the assembly,
        saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God,
        neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deut. 18:17 And the Lord said unto me,
        They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deut. 18:18 I will raise them up a PROPHET
        from among their BRETHREN, like unto thee,
        and will put WORDS in his MOUTH;
        and he shall SPEAK unto them
        all that I shall COMMAND him.
Deut. 18:19 And it shall come to pass,
        that whosoever will not hearken unto MY WORDS
        which he SHALL SPEAK in MY NAME I will require it of him.
Deut. 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name,
        which I have not commanded him to speak,
        or that shall speak in the name of other gods,
        even that prophet shall die.
Deut. 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart,
        How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
Deut. 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord,
        if the thing follow not, nor come to pass,
        that is the thing which the Lord HAVE NOT SPOKEN
               but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously:
               thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Offline bemark

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3530
  • Manna: 217
  • Gender: Male
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #201 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:49:15 »
Sorry 4wd. When you pray for someone it can be intense and for other others a non event. Maybe its the call on the individual within the body of Christ
Elijah did go into the enimies war chamber and come out with information.


Its done by projecting your spirit man that is joined with Christ , around or over a place individual etc etc From being in the spirit realm sometimes you can see feel etc what is going on.

God is omipresent. seeing all. Sorry m8 but i have to go to bed . will catch up later on

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #202 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 14:56:41 »
bemark----

You asked an excellent question of Kenneth. Here is part of his reply:

>>>The context proves that they were adoring or showing reverence for their BROTHER Jesus of Nazareth<<<

I must point out to you that this is WILLFUL IGNORANCE.  In John 20 when Thomas worshiped Jesus and said "My Lord and my God" there
are two important points  1) Thomas calls him God and worships Him. 2) Jesus does not refute what He has been called---neither does He tell
Thomas to get up to his feet.  No----He accepts the worship and the title.

Kenneth knows this and sees this.  But Kenneth will hold to his false doctrine no matter what he is shown. Paul actually says to avoid these people
as they are "self-deceived". Kenneth will completely deny this---but what he is actually saying is "I will not now down to Jesus Christ" though
the Bible clearly states that to Jesus EVERY KNEE will eventually bow.  Kenneth will not bow down or acknowledge Jesus is God (as Thomas did)
and therefore he is willfully rejecting Jesus. That is very, very serious indeed.

I personally have posted many different verses, and instances from the Bible and the Gospels that show Jesus is God quite clearly (if one takes the time to
actually read the verses and meditate upon them) yet Kenneth full out rejects them before he even really reads them through.  Good luck my friend--I
appreciate your attempts, and your excellent questions meant to open the eyes of the willfully blind.  I pray you have success.  God bless you bemark.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #203 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 15:38:08 »
HERE IS JOHN'S CORRECTION OF A COMMON HERESY: MORE LATER.

Quote
In John 20 when Thomas worshiped Jesus and said "My Lord and my God" thereare two important points
        1) Thomas calls him God and worships Him.
        2) Jesus does not refute what He has been called---neither does He tell.
        Thomas to get up to his feet.  No----He accepts the worship and the title
.

FIFTY OR SIXTY YEARS LATER WE DON'T KNOW ALL THAT JESUS SPOKE.  John wrote just enough to PREVENT any student from believing THOMAS who denied what Jesus always said of Himself.

John may have been written more that 50 years after the death of Jesus.  This was after the "synagogues of Satan", the gnostics and Greeks had muddied the streams. His accounts are different because they are to refute those who claimed that Jesus was a spirit.

One of the earliest and most notable of those who helped the Church stay on course was Irenaeus. His name means "peaceable," and he was born between 115 and 125 AD, in Smyrna (modern Izmir, in Turkey). Irenaeus often heard the aged Polycarp preach. Polycarp was a close associate of the apostle John, and Irenaeus treasured this close connection with an eyewitness of Christ's time on earth.

THE QUOTE: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John Immediately corrected the expression whom Jesus dismisses as a DOUBTER

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples,
        which are not written in this book:
John 20:31 But these are written,
        that ye might believe that JESUS IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF GOD
        and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #204 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 16:39:27 »
Bowing was very common practice. Bowing to someone does not mean they are God.

Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. -Gen.19:1

So Abraham rose and bowed to the people of the land, the sons of Heth. -Gen. 23:7

May peoples serve you,
And nations bow down to you;
Be master of your brothers,
And may your mother’s sons bow down to you.
Cursed be those who curse you,
And blessed be those who bless you.”
-Gen.27:29

But he himself passed on ahead of them and bowed down to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother. -Gen.33:3

Leah likewise came near with her children, and they bowed down; and afterward Joseph came near with Rachel, and they bowed down. -Gen.33:7

Now Joseph was the ruler over the land; he was the one who sold to all the people of the land. And Joseph's brothers came and bowed down to him with their faces to the ground. -Gen. 42:6

When Joseph came home, they brought into the house to him the present which was in their hand and bowed to the ground before him. -Gen. 43:26
They said, “Your servant our father is well; he is still alive.” They bowed down in homage.
-Gen.43:28

He said, “Swear to me.” So he swore to him. Then Israel bowed in worship at the head of the bed. -Gen.47:31

Then Joseph took them from his knees, and bowed with his face to the ground. -Gen.48:12

Then Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and he bowed down and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare and went into the tent. - Exo. 18:7
Now afterward David arose and went out of the cave and called after Saul, saying, “My lord the king!” And when Saul looked behind him, David bowed with his face to the ground and prostrated himself. -1Sa.24:8

When Abigail saw David, she hurried and dismounted from her donkey, and fell on her face before David and bowed herself to the ground. -1Sa.25:23

She arose and bowed with her face to the ground and said, “Behold, your maidservant is a maid to wash the feet of my lord's servants.” -1Sa.25:41

He said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage. 1Sa.28:14

Then Joab said to the Cushite, “Go, tell the king what you have seen.” So the Cushite bowed to Joab and ran. -2Sa.18:21

Araunah looked down and saw the king and his servants crossing over toward him; and Araunah went out and bowed his face to the ground before the king. -2Sa.24:20
Then Bathsheba bowed and prostrated herself before the king. And the king said, “What do you wish?”-1Kings 1:16
1Ki 1:31, 1:47, 2:19
So he again sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. When the third captain of fifty went up, he came and bowed down on his knees before Elijah, and begged him and said to him, “O man of God, please let my life and the lives of these fifty servants of yours be precious in your sight. -2Ki.1:13
2Kings 2:15, 4:37, 2Ch.24:17, Est.3:2

"A study of the Hebrew word shachah and the Greek word proskuneo reveals that both these words mean “to bow down.” The Hebrew word shachah (Strong’s number 7812) is used of bowing or prostrating oneself, often before a superior or before God. In the King James Version, it is translated by a number of different English words, including: “worship” (99 times), “bow” (31 times), “bow down” (18 times), “obeisance” (9 times), and “reverence” (5 times).
The Greek word proskuneo (Strong’s number 4505) comes from the Greek words pros, “to” or “toward,” and kuneo, “to kiss.” It literally means to kiss the hand to (toward) someone in token of reverence, and among the Orientals, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence. Hence, in the New Testament it means kneeling or prostration to do homage or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication.
The examples of “worship” in the Bible confirms that in the biblical culture, people bowed down before those to whom they wanted to show respect or honor. Lot “worshipped” (shachah) the strangers who came to Sodom even though he had never seen them before. He prostrated himself before them to show them respect (Gen. 19:1). Moses “worshipped” (shachah) his father in law, whom he respected and honored (Exod. 18:7). Abigail “worshipped” (shachah) David. She honored him by prostrating herself before him. These three examples can be multiplied many times over, but they show that when someone wanted to honor another, he would fall down before him. The act of falling down is called “worship,” and reveals the heart of the worshipper—respect and honor towards the one being worshipped."
       http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-is-true-biblical-worship

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #205 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 17:01:15 »
Kenneth/BTR---

As I mentioned below, you will hold on to your heresy despite clear evidence being shown to you.  No Kenneth, John did not "correct" Thomas, any more than he corrected
Nathanael who called Jesus "The King of Israel". As I have pointed out before, the language is so clear in john 20:28 that not even the Jehovah's Witnesses can change
the words in the verse.  The best they can do (as BTR shows so clearly below) is to try and "downplay" what Thomas said, and infer he didn't really mean to say "God"--it was just a form of speech showing respect.  lol.   

You know how ridiculous your examples are below?  Take any of your verses below BTR and add "My Lord and My God" to the end of them.  Here, let me do it for you:

"But he himself passed on ahead of them and bowed down to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother and said 'My Lord and My God'.  (Gen. 33:3)

Of course, I added the "and he said 'My Lord and My God'.  But that is exactly what Thomas said to Jesus.  Now, let me ask you.  In Genesis 33:3 if he HAD said to his
brother "My Lord and My God" what do you think his brother would have done?  His brother would have said "Are you crazy?" and made him stand up immediately.  And so would
all the other people in the examples you have given below if someone were to address them that way after bowing to them.  Japanese people to this day "bow" to one another----but none of them says "My Lord and My God"  do they?

In an effort to hold onto heresy you are giving a very bad example.  Go back to John 20:28 again BTR.  What is happening there is not "bowing" or "showing respect". Thomas
is declaring DEITY loud and clear.  And what does Jesus do?  Does he say "Are you crazy?" and make him stand up??   No---he absolutely does not.  He ACCEPTS the worship and ACKNOWLEDGES IT IS TRUE.

You are both jumping through hoops to try to hold on to a heretical doctrine.  And it is very foolish.  Believe the Word of God.
« Last Edit: Thu May 10, 2018 - 17:04:04 by fish153 »

Offline BTR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #206 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 17:31:21 »
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

“Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
  -Jhn.8:42,43


“But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish—the very works that I do—testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.

“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

“You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
  -Jhn.5:36-38



Quote: "Go back to John 20:28 again BTR"

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. -Jhn. 12:45

I put on my socks and my shoes. Are my socks my shoes?
« Last Edit: Thu May 10, 2018 - 18:01:18 by BTR »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #207 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 18:18:36 »
Again for those not reading, John wrote LONG AFTER the others and what He discusses is clearly a refutation of the heresies from Jews, Greeks and Others.  Before REFUTING everything John Wrote about GOD and the SON OF GOD you need to have a smattering of church history.  By defining Himself as the Son He denies that He is GOD THE FATHER.

Attempts to INFER in order to have to accept CLEAR STATEMENTS, it may prove that one does not love The Word and therefore has hit the slippery slope with no return.

Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra was a staunch opponent of Arianism, but also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical, and was later condemned for his teachings. Marcellus attacked his opponents (On the Holy Church, 9) by linking them to Valentinus:

    Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit.[12]

It should be noted that the Nag Hammadi library Sethian text Trimorphic Protennoia identifies Gnosticism as professing Father, Son, and feminine wisdom Sophia or as Professor John D. Turner denotes, God the father, Sophia the mother, and Logos the son.

In Solomon's theology and many ancient texts SOPHIA was the mother of the VERY IGNORANT Jehovah and logos. Here is my copy of the Gnostic paper which EXACTLY fits John's proof that. the LOGOS was what the Son SPOKE without any personal input.

http://www.piney.com/Gnostic.Trimorphic.Protennoia.html


Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5568
  • Manna: 457
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #208 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 19:03:27 »
BTR-----
>>>Quote: "Go back to John 20:28 again BTR"

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. -Jhn. 12:45

I put on my socks and my shoes. Are my socks my shoes?
<<<<


That is a totally ridiculous statement BTR.  If he is worshiping Jesus and saying "My Lord and My God" he is saying this to the person he is worshiping.

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1)

Is Peter stating he is someone else's servant, but he is an Apostle of Jesus Christ?  No---he is saying he is a servant AND an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Your argument is a very poor one my friend.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • Manna: 39
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)cheives (M)ore
Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #209 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 19:46:18 »
You flunked reading again, again, again! You must be a SUCKER fish?

THE QUOTE: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John Immediately corrected the expression whom Jesus dismisses as a DOUBTER

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did JESUS in the presence of his disciples,
        which are not written in this book:
John 20:31 But these are written,
        that ye might believe that JESUS IS THE CHRIST THE SON OF GOD
        and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So, being Bible literate, John REFUTED any understanding coming from Doubting Thomas whom Jesus belittled.

 

 

     
anything