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Author Topic: How can Jesus Christ be God?  (Read 17473 times)

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Offline bemark

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #280 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 20:36:25 »
Thanks Fish and yes its like going around and around a mountain and that is from both sides . 4WD i see it boils down to the worship of Jesus Christ AS GOD . The same one God but seperate.

Truthcomber and  Kenneth

The Throne Room of Heaven
4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”

2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 [a]And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, [c]thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the[d] seven Spirits of God.

6 Before the throne there [e]was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:

“Holy,[f] holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!”
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

11 “You are worthy, [g]O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they [h]exist and were created.”


Then we have  in

Revelation 22 New King James Version (NKJV)

The River of Life
22 And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

So let us paint a picture. A throne in Heaven or big ball of light / energy that releases lightnings thunder and  voices (God almighty) and in the middle of that that big ball is Jesus Christ . In the midst of that throne and around it  ( not on it ) are living creatures ( created ones ) worshipping Jesus Christ and God together as one. They give Glory to Jesus Christ who is in the Father. The creater is Jesus Christ. One day we will,see the face of God. That face will be the face of Jesus Christ

This again points to created beings, the  creatures giving glory, worship to God . Jesus Christ. A created being is not to be worshipped and not a angel .
 We will be around it. We can share in it. By worshipping Jesus Christ and Father God . We nor Angels worship created ones. There is a place set aside  for the devil his demons and to those who  bow to them.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #280 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 20:36:25 »

Offline bemark

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #281 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 20:37:25 »
Sorry the bold was not meant to be bold .not shouting or making a point with it

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #281 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 20:37:25 »

Offline bemark

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #282 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 21:41:57 »
So throughout the bible we have angels and man worshipping Jesus Christ as God. Jesus Christ has to be God or there would be no angels left in heaven and christian man does not worship a created angel called the devil but we worship the one and true God who is Jesus Christ our Lord.

The worship of God

The worship of Angels or creation

The worship of man

I know who I worship. The prescence is the same because it flows from the same source. If you had knowen the father you also  would have knowen me. They didnt know the one standing before them.They knew the word but not his Spirit.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #282 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 21:41:57 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #283 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 23:00:41 »
The Lord God Almighty is Jehovah: Jesus was MADE TO BE Lord BY The Lord-God. Jesus is never named Lord (yhwh) God (Elohim)

Rev. 21:22 And I saw no temple therein:
       for the Lord God Almighty
       AND
       THE LAMB are the temple of it.

Therefore, the LAMB is not the Lord God Almighty

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded;
        and there were great voices in heaven,
        Saying, The kingdoms of this world
        are become the kingdoms OF OUR LORD,
        AND
        of HIS CHRIST; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Therefore The Christ OF God cannot be OUR LORD GOD: Jesus surrendered the throne as THE KING OF THE EARTH.

Rev. 5:1  And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne
        a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice,
        Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev. 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth,
        was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev. 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book,
         neither to look thereon.

Rev. 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me,
        Weep not: behold,
        the Lion of the TRIBE OF JUDA
        the ROOT of David
,
        hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

One of the TRIBE of Judah cannot be the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.
The ROOT of David cannot be the Lord God Almighty.

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
        and in the midst of the elders,
        stood a LAMB as it had been SLAIN,
        having seven horns and seven eyes,
        which are the seven Spirits [Menorah Isaiah 11:1f) 
        of GOD sent forth into all the earth.

Jesus the LAMB SLAIN cannot be God.  The one who was given the seven spirits OF knowledge cannot be GOD Who gave it to Him.

Rev. 5:7 And he came and took the book
        out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev. 5:8 And when he had taken the book,
        the four beasts and four and twenty elders
        fell down before the Lamb,
        having every one of them harps,
        AND
        golden vials full of odours,
               WHICH are the prayers of saints.

No one PLAYS HARPS: Holding Harps OF GOD is to COMPREHEND the Word of God. They are NOT Harps of DAVID which God never commanded.



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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #283 on: Fri May 18, 2018 - 23:00:41 »
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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #284 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 00:22:08 »
Revelation 5 is apocalyptic.  If the author saw harps, the proper response should be, "what do they represent?"  We don't believe they actually had golden vials full of odours do we?  The text tells us what those figure - the prayers of the saints.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #284 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 00:22:08 »



Offline bemark

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #285 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 01:18:06 »
Kenneth
Are you saying that God almighty made Jesus to be Lord,   and that is why he gets worshipped. Not because who he is , but only because God elevated him to this position? Even now before himself


A created one ? Now getting worshipped by the angels and all of mankind ? A created one receiving praise from creation , its equal. Receiving worship as if he was God?

How does this even work when God said this ?


Exodus 20:3 New King James Version (NKJV)

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

Did God now change his mind ? Did God think it was now ok because i appointed him and he didnt rebel like that devil. Did God decide to do this, just in case there was other angels who wanted to be God as well

Just answer the question. Did angels and man worship Jesus Christ or not in the bible? Yes or No

if your answer is no......there are plenty of scriptures says he was worshipped

if the answer is Yes, then please explain how this can happen in light of Exdous 20:3

Kenneth i have also found you to be very polite and not hash in your ways.



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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #285 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 01:18:06 »

Online RB

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #286 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 05:16:35 »
I do want to apologize to Truthcomber, BTR and Kenneth though if I have in any way been insulting---because I really did not intend to be,  I do want to fervently defend the teaching that Jesus Christ is God--but that should not give me license to insult or belittle any of you.
Brother, you have never offended a person here that I can see and I read all of your posts. Rest in peace. 

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #287 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 05:38:43 »
If Almighty God, who is invisible, had looked in the Mirror, he wouldn’t have seen anything.
What he did do was looked down from heaven and saw HIS SON, who was the EXPRESS image of HIMSELF. The reason being they BOTH in the Godhead were ONE in their DIVINE BEING, as the BLESSED GOD~Romans 9:5; 1st Timothy 6:14-16; Titus 2:13, etc.
Quote from: Truthcomber Yesterday at 12:54:52
We are also one with God, but are not God but the sons of God, like Christ is the son of God.
You, BTR take scriptures that are true, to try to cancel out other scriptures that are true when understood in the proper use and sense. You use the scriptures unlawfully and without the Spirit of God teaching you~your own deceived heart is your guide.

We are not one with God in his Godhead as the everlasting Father of all things, with no beginning and no end, eternal both ways. We are NOT one with him in his INFINITE attributes as Jesus Christ was, and is.  You are so blinded and corrupting the scriptures with your reckless use of them. We are NOT the same as Christ as far as the Sonship of Jesus Christ. Jesus was God's ONLY begotten Son in the manner in which Jesus was begotten through conception~God's elect are sons through adoption. A big difference just in case you do not know, which you do not. Enough said....RB

« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 05:42:36 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #288 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 05:52:14 »
Sure it does.

“Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. -Mat.18:3

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom  of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves,
nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
  -Mat.23:13


And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom  of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom  of God is within you.
  -Lk.17:20,21
No being in the kingdom is not being in heaven.  It is the kingdom of heaven, not the kingdom in heaven.
We enjoy membership in the kingdom of heaven here on earth.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #288 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 05:52:14 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #289 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 06:21:44 »
Kenneth
Are you saying that God almighty made Jesus to be Lord,   and that is why he gets worshipped. Not because who he is , but only because God elevated him to this position?
That is exactly what he is saying and he is dead wrong.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #290 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 08:41:53 »
Quote
Kenneth
Are you saying that God almighty made Jesus to be Lord,   and that is why he gets worshipped. Not because who he is , but only because God elevated him to this position
?

I SAY WHAT I SAY AND YOU CANNOT INFER..

Acts 2:31 He SEEING this BEFORE spake of the RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
        [He whom GOD anointed]
        that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This JESUS hath GOD
       RAISED up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of GOD EXALTED,
        and having RECEIVED of the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Ghost,
        HE hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Jesus received the Evangelistic Office AS HOLY SPIRIT.  He, Jesus, Returned to the upper Room as Promised with the SIGHT of Fire and the SOUND of WIND or BREATH.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,
        The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on MY RIGHT HAND
Acts 2:35 UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
        that GOD
        HATH MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
        both LORD AND CHRIST.

REMEMBER: The FIRST Creation was DESTROYED BY WATER so don't think that Jesus is in Genesis.
The Second Creation by Jesus is RESERVED UNTO FIRE.  So, don't let the clergy fleece you claiming that they "gonna save more souls."

Jesus was never worshipped AS GOD except in "a church near you in the morning" even as thee go to extremes to SHUT HIS MOUTH

Matt. 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him,
      Saying, Of a truth thou art the SON OF GOD

THE ENEMIES OF GOD AND HIS SON

John 10:33 The Jews answered him,
       saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for BLASPHEMY;
       and because that thou, being a MAN, makest thyself God
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the FATHER hath SANCTIFIED,
       and sent into the world, Thou BLASPHEMEST;
       because I said, I AM THE SON OF GOD?

By reading, grade 4, The SON of God CANNOT be GOD.  People keep calling Jesus a liar for not saying, BUT I AM GOD.  The Jews and all but a TINY, LITTLE FLOCK can never understand that when Jesus said that He WAS NOT God not a WANNABE, He said I AM NOT GOD MY FATHER.  I AM SO SORRY.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:
         the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
John 10:26 But ye believe not,
        because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Online RB

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #291 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 09:04:24 »
Jesus was never worshipped AS GOD except in "a church near you in the morning"
Kenneth, you are not receiving your understanding from the scriptures, but from other sources. All of the apostles and children of God in the NT all, without exception, worshipped Jesus as the Son of God, which clearly means that he WAS EQUAL to God~even the Pharisees understood this phrase~Son OF GOD.
Quote from: John
John 10:30-36~I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Kenneth, do all of us a service and give your understanding of this scripture:
Quote from: Paul
1st Timothy 3:16~"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.:
Truthcomber and BTR can do likewise.



« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 09:06:34 by RB »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #292 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 09:31:38 »
1 timothy 3: 16ASV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness;
   8 He who was manifested in the flesh,
   Justified in the spirit,
   Seen of angels,
   Preached among the 9nations,
   Believed on in the world,
   Received up in glory.

GREEK:
1 Timothy 3:[16] et manifeste magnum est pietatis sacramentum quod manifestatum est in carne iustificatum est in spiritu apparuit angelis praedicatum est gentibus creditum est in mundo adsumptum est in gloria

1 Timothy 3:16 kai homologoumenōs mega estin to tēs eusebeias mustērion: ‘ Hos ephanerōthē en sarki,
     edikaiōthē en pneumati,
     ōphthē aggelois,
     ekērukhthē en ethnesin,
     episteuthē en kosmō,
     anelēmphthē en doxē.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #293 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 09:41:17 »
THIS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED SEVERAL TIMES.  HE apppeared in the FLESH: God does not have flesh and bones  "AS YE SEE ME HAVE" says Jesus.

Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE [unus] GOD [A Single]
      and ONE [unus] mediator BETWEEN God and men,
      the MAN Christ Jesus;

Therefore, MY "I and my Father are one.

UNUM 1. Adverbial expressions.
a. Ad unum, all together, unanimously, to a man, without exception:
b. In unum, into one, to one place, together:
2. Of that which is common to several persons or things, one and the same.
with one voice, all together, unanimously:
“unius modi,” id. Univ. 7.—Esp., uno ore, with one voice, all together, unanimously:


John 17:11  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world,
        and I come to thee. Holy Father,
        keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me,
        that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
        that they may be ONE, even AS WE ARE ONE
1Cor. 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are ONE:
        and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #294 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:03:02 »
Is Jesus Christ To Be Worshipped As God?
By Craig Bluemel

I will supplement the Author’s thoughts with my comments:



From the Author:

“Further, Jesus says to her, “God IS spirit,” and then, “those who WORSHIP HIM must worship in SPIRIT and truth.”  The truth be told Jesus IS a man, the chosen Messiah sent BY God, but he does not seek or accept worship as deity whatsoever or ever.

When Thomas actually speaks and says, “My Lord and my God!” in John 20:28, he is not calling Jesus deity; rather, he acknowledges Jesus as his MASTER (i.e. – “Lord”) and his JUDGE (i.e. – magistrate).  The Greek word for, “Lord,” actually represents a highly respectful term for an individual; this term in and of itself does not imply deity.  The ultimate proof for this comes first from the context, which affirms Jesus is a man, and second from the definition of the Greek word mistranslated in John 20:28 as, “God,” (see below).

The Greek for the words, “My Lord and my God,” in John 20:28 is, Ho Kúriós mou kaí ho Theós mou.  Fundamental to understanding what Thomas was saying is the Greek definitions for “Lord” and for “God.”

“Lord” = kúrios (NT: 2962); from kúros (meaning supremacy); kúrios means literally, supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful title): (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Kurios is a title given to another out of respect for what they are and what they are in control of.  It is a common term for God who is Supreme controller, but also of Jesus as the Messiah, a man appointed BY God, but submissive to Him.  Thomas calls Jesus, “My Lord,” much the same way Elizabeth called the unborn Christ child in Mary’s womb her Lord when she said, “the mother of MY Lord.” Kurios is a title of honor, expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants salute their master; this is what Thomas meant.

The other key word, which is greatly misunderstood by Christians, is the Greek term, “Theos.”  Theos is generally used as title for God, however, the word is not limited to use only of a deity.  Strong’s Concordance definition of theos is as follows:

“God” = Theós (NT: 2316); a deity, especially (with NT:3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

In John 20:28 Thomas was referring to Jesus as master and magistrate; a magistrate means literally, “Pertaining to a master; such as suits a master; authoritative.”  In essence therefore Thomas calls Jesus, “My authoritative master.”  He is acknowledging Jesus as his only Lord and as the one appointed by God as the Christ.

Thomas is verbally giving recognition to the office or dignity of a magistrate.  Being Jewish this was the highest position of honor any human being could ever attain because it makes him second in command only to God.  This acknowledgment by the Jews was synonymous with how they perceived the fulfillment of Isaiah 9:7, believing the “government would rest upon his shoulders.”  A magistrate was to them the principal director invested with the executive government of God Himself. In this sense, a king is the highest or first magistrate, just as is the President of the United States.  But the word is more particularly applied to subordinate officers, as governors, intendants, prefects, mayors, justices of the peace, and the like.


Comment:

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 because he (God) hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Christ) whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 17:33 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #295 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:10:37 »
1 timothy 3: 16ASV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness;
   8 He who was manifested in the flesh,
   Justified in the spirit,
   Seen of angels,
   Preached among the 9nations,
   Believed on in the world,
   Received up in glory.

GREEK:
1 Timothy 3:[16] et manifeste magnum est pietatis sacramentum quod manifestatum est in carne iustificatum est in spiritu apparuit angelis praedicatum est gentibus creditum est in mundo adsumptum est in gloria

1 Timothy 3:16 kai homologoumenōs mega estin to tēs eusebeias mustērion: ‘ Hos ephanerōthē en sarki,
     edikaiōthē en pneumati,
     ōphthē aggelois,
     ekērukhthē en ethnesin,
     episteuthē en kosmō,
     anelēmphthē en doxē.

What in the world is this mess? I asked a simple question:
Quote from:  RB Today at 09:04:24
Kenneth, do all of us a service and give your understanding of this scripture: 1st Timothy 3:16
and you posted the mess above! My five-year-old granddaughter could have done better! My older ones would have shamed you! Would like to try again, so far you have shown that you are desperately lost for words.  No surprise, for Paul's words are so plainly spoken that any attempt would only expose one as a false teacher if he said that God was NOT manifest in the flesh, which Paul said that he was.

Next up..Truthcomber or BTR.
« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:12:48 by RB »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #296 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:18:16 »
http://www.bibleanswerstand.org/worshipped.htm

From the Author:

The argument is that Jesus does in fact receive worship AS God, and therefore this proves he IS God.  The primary NT verse used for this argument is found in Matthew 2:1-2 when the magi came at the birth of Jesus to worship:

Matthew 2:1-2 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 2 "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?  For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship (proskuneo) him."  NAS 



Comment:

http://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm

Definition: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

Definition of obeisance:

o•bei•sance

respect, homage, worship, adoration, reverence, veneration, honor, submission, deference
"he made a very formal, elaborate gesture of obeisance"

Comment: So proskuneo also means honor, or submission, not just worship.

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/exodus/20-4.htm


God says in Exodus 20:4 not to make an image (not just graven image) of anything to be worship as God.   
 
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Comment:
Christ is not to be worship as God. He is the image of the only true God.  He is to be given homage, just as the saints are to be given homage as we are translated into the “kingdom”  of his son. 

From the Author:

“Revelation 3:7-13 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 “I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.  9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, (proskuneo) and to know that I have loved thee.  10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.  11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.  12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.  13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”   KJV

If Jesus receives, “worship,” as God, then so do the overcomers in the church in Philadelphia!  This illustrates nicely that Jesus is never worshipped as deity, but along with his brethren he includes into his relationship with the Father God, he will make those who are pseudo-believers to come and fall before their feet, and recognize and personally acknowledge that they have been loved by Jesus.”



Hebrews 1:6
And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship him."  NAS

Some claim this verse means Jesus is to be worshipped as deity; the absurdity of such a claim is seen in the verse itself and the surrounding context.  How could the, “angels OF God” worship Jesus AS God?  This is grammatically impossible.  To use this verse to support Jesus as deity likens him to the “God” that commands the angels to worship Jesus; this results in at least two distinct Gods, a violation of the general tenor of the entire Bible.  If you missed my point here, try this grammatical exercise; insert your own name here:

This same claim would then make God #2 (Jesus) a “firstborn” being; this assumes “God” is “born.”  You can see the inconsistencies quite easily.  The verse in Hebrews 1:6 again uses proskuneo, not for divine, “worship,” but rather as a gesture of homage, honor, and respect for Jesus as the overcomer man and the redeemer; Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead, whom God the Father has exalted to a position of majesty, glory and honor, but NOT as “God.”


Comment: The verse should read:

Hebrews 1:6 And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship him (God, not Jesus) "  NAS


From the Author:


The Greek for the words, “My Lord and my God,” in John 20:28 is, Ho Kúriós mou kaí ho Theós mou.  Fundamental to understanding what Thomas was saying is the Greek definitions for “Lord” and for “God.”

“Lord” = kúrios (NT: 2962); from kúros (meaning supremacy); kúrios means literally, supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful title): (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


Online RB

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #297 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:26:34 »
Is Jesus Christ To Be Worshipped As God?
By Craig Bluemel

I will supplement the Author’s thoughts with my comments:



From the Author:

“Further, Jesus says to her, “God IS spirit,” and then, “those who WORSHIP HIM must worship in SPIRIT and truth.”  The truth be told Jesus IS a man, the chosen Messiah sent BY God, but he does not seek or accept worship as deity whatsoever or ever.

When Thomas actually speaks and says, “My Lord and my God!” in John 20:28, he is not calling Jesus deity; rather, he acknowledges Jesus as his MASTER (i.e. – “Lord”) and his JUDGE (i.e. – magistrate).  The Greek word for, “Lord,” actually represents a highly respectful term for an individual; this term in and of itself does not imply deity.  The ultimate proof for this comes first from the context, which affirms Jesus is a man, and second from the definition of the Greek word mistranslated in John 20:28 as, “God,” (see below).
The scriptures KNOWS the difference between master and GOD, and uses them accordingly! There are NO mistranslated words in our bible THAT WOULD totally change the meaning of the context of writer's words~that's a lie. Believing in such things is the way men corrupt God's word, just as Paul warned us of.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 2:18~"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
You men have no fear of God to boldly corrupt scriptures.
Quote
The ultimate proof for this comes first from the context, which affirms Jesus is a man
He also was God manifest in human flesh. Jesus was BOTH man and God, with scriptures supporting BOTH, that has been given many times. 


Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #298 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:33:22 »
Thanks, Truthcomber: I am saving your comments.

I believe that it is a fact that the world was filled with lords and gods.

Ex. 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Ex. 3:15 And God said MOREOVER unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

I think we need more background on the "generic" words which are used but is further separated by further definitions.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #299 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:44:20 »
Quote
2nd Corinthians 2:18~"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

2Cor. 2:14 Now thanks be unto God,
         which always causeth us to triumph in CHRIST,
         and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
2Cor. 2:15 For we are unto God
        a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
2Cor. 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death;
      and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
2Cor. 2:17 For we are not as many,
        which corrupt the word of GOD: but as of sincerity, but as of God,
        in the sight of GOD
        speak we in CHRIST.

Hard to grasp? No. IMPOSSIBLE to grasp that if Jesus is kurios He is not Theos: If He is CHRIST then He cannot be GOD.  VERSE 17 PUTS IT IN CLEAR SIGHT.

Jesus of NAZARETH Whom God MADE TO BE both LORD and CHRIST came IN THE FLESH: the SEED of David. GOD DID NOT COME IN THE FLESH.  God hath not flesh and bones

Corrupting the WORD is selling anything BUT the Word at retail: Adultery.

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #300 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:57:21 »
Thanks, Truthcomber: I am saving your comments.

I believe that it is a fact that the world was filled with lords and gods.

Ex. 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Ex. 3:15 And God said MOREOVER unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

I think we need more background on the "generic" words which are used but is further separated by further definitions.


Thanks for the kind words.  You also put up quotes that help me.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #301 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 12:58:45 »
Quote
and you posted the mess above! My five-year-old granddaughter could have done better! My older ones would have shamed you! Would like to try again,

I was just showing you that GOD does not appear in the Greek nor Latin.

ASV  [1Ti 3:16]  Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

BBE [1Ti 3:16]  And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.

ESV [1Ti 3:16]  Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

The mystery is not GOD but GODLINESS
g2150.  eusebeia, yoo-seb´-i-ah; from 2152; piety; specially, the gospel scheme: — godliness, holiness.

g2152. eusebes, yoo-seb-ace´; from 2095 and 4576; well-reverent, i.e. pious: — devout, godly.

This has about the same meaning as Theotes or GODHEAD: the nature to obey God's commands.

[/size]
« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 13:02:39 by Kenneth Sublett »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #302 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 13:06:13 »
The scriptures KNOWS the difference between master and GOD, and uses them accordingly! There are NO mistranslated words in our bible THAT WOULD totally change the meaning of the context of writer's words~that's a lie. Believing in such things is the way men corrupt God's word, just as Paul warned us of. You men have no fear of God to boldly corrupt scriptures.He also was God manifest in human flesh. Jesus was BOTH man and God, with scriptures supporting BOTH, that has been given many times.



RB, Instead of addressing the statements at hand, you go out on a tangent.  Please address the post at hand directly. 


If you think the Messiah is equal with God, please tell me what you think these passages below that I posted mean in conjunction with each other? 

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 because he (God) hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man (Christ) whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he (Christ) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

John 17:33 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


RB, please reconcile the two verses below:


God says in Exodus 20:4 not to make an image (not just graven image) of anything to be worship as God.
   
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Christ is the image of the invisible and only true God.  We should not worship any image as God.  Yet, you insist on worshipping Christ as God.  Why?

Online RB

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #303 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 14:14:46 »
RB, Instead of addressing the statements at hand, you go out on a tangent.  Please address the post at hand directly. 
You cannot present a scripture that the word of God cannot answer. BEFORE I go forward, you MUST answer 1st Timothy 3:16 from the oldest English version of the scripture~you are welcome to use the Geneva Bible or early English versions such as John Wycliffe; William Tyndale; etc.  I accept NO versions after 1611~ ACCEPT where they simply used update English spelling from the old English spelling as we have today in our 1611 version. The assault on God's word begun around 1850 with the RV. 
« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 14:20:54 by RB »

Offline BTR

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #304 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 14:41:30 »
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. -KJV

There is an error in this verse, either unintentional or intentional.

The Messiah was manifest in the flesh. Jesus was preached to the Gentiles. The Messiah was believed on in the world, the Jews already believed in God.
Jesus was seen of angels (or messengers) and received up into glory.

The Father did not need to be justifide or recieved up into glory. The Greek is Who, most other translations other than KJV or NKJV adds a footnote, read He.

Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. -RSV

If you want to bury your head in the sand and only read and believe in the kjv thats your problem.

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #305 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 14:50:13 »
I'll be back in the morning God willing. I will answer all three of you, no problem with God's testimony of the truth concerning the Godhead, and the deity of his Son of being the true God and eternal life and without knowledge of him as such, especially so denying it, only proves one is void of eternal life and is an antichrist. 

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #306 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 15:08:26 »
The Godhead is Theotes: filled with the divine NATURE: not filled with The Lord God. Let's Face it, most people fit the pattern:

Luke 19:12 He said therefore,
      A certain nobleman went into a far country
      to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luke 19:13 And he called his ten servants,
     and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luke 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him,
     saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Offline BTR

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #307 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 15:22:36 »
No being in the kingdom is not being in heaven.  It is the kingdom of heaven, not the kingdom in heaven.
We enjoy membership in the kingdom of heaven here on earth.

You think its like a membership, like for after you die, like a get out of jail free card?

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not {enter in} yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering {to go in}. Mat.23:13

“I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. -Jhn.10:9

‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. -Rev.3:12




Offline BTR

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #308 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 15:44:16 »
I'll be back in the morning God willing. I will answer all three of you, no problem with God's testimony of the truth concerning the Godhead, and the deity of his Son of being the true God and eternal life and without knowledge of him as such, especially so denying it, only proves one is void of eternal life and is an antichrist.

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
  -1Jhn. 5:9-13


Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
  -2Jhn.1:9-11

Offline 4WD

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #309 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 16:14:19 »
You think its like a membership, like for after you die, like a get out of jail free card?
No, of course not.  The kingdom is not limited to heaven.  Those of us still alive on earth are in the kingdom, but certainly not in heaven. You can be a citizen of the U.S., but if you are living in some other country, say England, you obviously are not in the U.S.

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #310 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 18:26:34 »
Hey Red,   ::clappingoverhead::

While you are at it, please answer the below scripture, you know, to get economies of scale. 

Heb 2:11 For both he (Christ) that sanctifieth and they (church)  who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I (Christ) sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I (Christ) will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Explain what this means to you. 

Offline soterion

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #311 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 21:03:53 »
1 Timothy 3:16.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 John 4:2-3.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

2 John 7.
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Have you ever noticed the great importance being placed on the fact that Jesus the Christ came in the flesh, came to man as a man? It shouldn't be a surprise or a wonder since it was prophesied that the Messiah would be a descendant of David.

2 Samuel 7:12-13.
When thy days are fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, that shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Psalm 132:11.
Jehovah hath sworn unto David in truth; He will not turn from it: Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Micah 5:2.
But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.

Romans 1:3.
concerning his Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,

My question, why should anyone deny that Jesus came in the flesh? What is it about Him that denying His fleshly status makes one an antichrist? There must be something about Him that would make His becoming a man mean something so incredible as to be unbelievable, thus the warning from John.

John describes Jesus, in his gospel account, as the Word who Himself is uncreated but rather is the Creator of all things, prior to His incarnation. I believe one of the absolute attributes of deity is that of Creator. Only God can create, and Isaiah 44:24 says Jehovah did it all alone.

I believe it is the deity of Jesus that makes His coming in the flesh so amazing, and for some so unbelievable and thus deniable. How could God condescend so? I believe it was one of those "if you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself" situations. Only God Himself could provide redemption for mankind, and He did it personally.

People who deny that He who became flesh is God are just making the reverse denial John warned about. John says not to deny Jesus the Christ came in the flesh, and folks here deny that He who came in the flesh was deity. Either way, His true nature is being denied.

Tell me, those of you who deny the deity of Christ, is your denial based strictly on there being a distinction in some passages between God and Jesus, or is it because the belief that God could become a man is too incredible to accept?

Offline BTR

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #312 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 21:23:58 »
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that {no lie is of the truth.}

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning.
If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
-1Jhn.2:20-24
« Last Edit: Sat May 19, 2018 - 21:27:02 by BTR »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #313 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 21:55:30 »


Jesus promised the original Apostle and later Paul that they would be GUIDED INTO ALL TRUTH. Paul promised to appear to Paul to guide Him

Peter left us a "memory" of his "part" of the "perfect" revelation and outlawed private interpretation or further expounding.

Paul said that the revelation IN PARTS would be MADE perfect and there would be no need of PERFECTING that which God considered perfect.

In the Epistles as each writer completed his part, the term "The Holy Spirit" almost dissappears and the two-fold relationship of "persons" is universal in the salutations:

ROMANS Grace to you and peace from
        God our Father, AND the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:7)

I CORINTHIANS Grace be unto you, and peace,
        from God our Father, AND from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)

II CORINTHIANS Grace be to you and peace from God our Father,
AND from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
        the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort, (1:2,3)

GALATIANS Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, AND God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (1:1-3)

EPHESIANS Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, AND from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)

PHILIPPIANS Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, ANDand from the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)

COLOSSIANS Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1:2,3)

I THESSALONIANS Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, AND the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:1)

II THESSALONIANS Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)

I TIMOTHY Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father AND Jesus Christ our Lord. (1:2)

II TIMOTHY To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord. (1:2)

TITUS To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (1:4)

PHILEMON Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:3)

HEBREWS For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again,
         I will be TO HIM a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (1:5)

JAMES James, a servant of God AND of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (1:1)

I PETER Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ (1:3)

II PETER Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, AND of Jesus our Lord, (1:2)

I JOHN ... and truly our fellowship is with the Father, AND with his Son Jesus Christ. (1:3)

II JOHN Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (1:3)

JUDE Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,
       to them that are sanctified by God the Father,
       AND preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (1:1

AND IF YOU SAY THAT GOD CAME IN THE FLESH:

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
      He is antichrist, that denieth the Father AND the Son.
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not
       that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
       and this is that spirit of antichrist,
       whereof ye have heard that it should come;
       and even now already is it in the world.

John, Theophilus, Tertullian and others refuted those who say that JESUS WAS GOD THE FATHER.

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: How can Jesus Christ be God?
« Reply #314 on: Sat May 19, 2018 - 22:01:42 »
Is the Bible we have today in English the same as the original Bible?
https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/is-the-bible-we-have-today-in-english-the-same-as-the-original-bible/


What Bible translation is closest to the original written scriptures?
https://ebible.com/questions/16980-what-bible-translation-is-closest-to-the-original-written-scriptures

1 Timothy 3:16 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

16 [a]And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness, which is, is manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory.

1 Tim 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


HEAVEN NET

http://heavennet.net/writings/supporting-the-trinity-doctrine/1-timothy-3_16/

Jesus is supposedly called God in 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)


So what’s going on here?

First off, one must understand the nomina sacra (sacred names).  These are abbreviations, in early manuscripts, of certain names and titles.

In ancient manuscripts, 1 Tim 3:16 had the word ‘os” which looks like “OC” and means “he”.  The nomina sacra of God looks like the “OC” but instead it has a horizontal line through the middle of the O and a long horizontal line over both letters. 

In one old manuscript (Codex Alexandrinus) it seems to be nomina sacra, but analysis of the manuscript shows that the two horizontal lines were added later. 

Many late manuscripts have the nomina sacra, but all the manuscripts earlier than 800 AD have OC “he”. 

 

     
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