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Author Topic: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?  (Read 15195 times)

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Offline Chrestian

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How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:09:18 »
There, no quotation marks.

I truly want to know the views of Christians who also accept evolution as true, and reasons behind their beliefs.

I will start with the premise that neither evolution nor creation can be proven, therefore the word theory should be kept out of the discussion and the term model used in its place.

C.

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How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:09:18 »

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:12:14 »
Nice OP, it would be nice to see a peace discussion actually take place about this topic for once.

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:12:14 »

Offline DCR

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:20:43 »
I believe it would be wise to define the terms though.

For one, what is meant by "evolution" in this case?  This could be anything from the acknowledgement that species adapt and change over time... to a belief that all life on earth came from amino acids in an ancient puddle.

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:20:43 »

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:27:31 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.   

I accept that I do not know everything.

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:27:31 »

Offline Carico

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:34:26 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.   

I accept that I do not know everything.

Oh. So please tell us what the real history of the Jews was. I'd like to hear this along with how and when God created man. Since it has nothing to do with the bible (because you claim that the bible isn't a history or science book) then it will be an imaginary god because i don't know where else you would find God's word. maybe you can tell us.   ::smile::

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:34:26 »



CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:49:16 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.  

I accept that I do not know everything.

I don't know why you would say the bible isn't a history book, since the bible contains a more accurate account of historical events then all of the written documents of Greco-Roman culture combined.

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:49:16 »

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:56:35 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.   

I accept that I do not know everything.

I don't know why you would say the bible isn't a history book, since the bible contains a more accurate account of historical events then all of the written documents of Greco-Roman culture combined.

I would say that because the purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell, is not to provide a precise timeline of historic events.

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #7 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:58:34 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.  

I accept that I do not know everything.

I don't know why you would say the bible isn't a history book, since the bible contains a more accurate account of historical events then all of the written documents of Greco-Roman culture combined.

I would say that because the purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell, is not to provide a precise timeline of historic events.

I would disagree, since the bible is the single most historical document on the face of the earth.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:59:20 »
Then we disagree about the primary purpose of the Bible.

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 13:59:20 »

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #9 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:03:04 »
Then we disagree about the primary purpose of the Bible.

We are not talking about the purpose of the bible, but application.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #10 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:04:05 »
Actually, I've been discussing the purpose, not the application.

navyvet

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #11 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:07:47 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.  

I accept that I do not know everything.

I don't know why you would say the bible isn't a history book, since the bible contains a more accurate account of historical events then all of the written documents of Greco-Roman culture combined.
The Bible is not a history or science text because history and science texts are created by human beings after, in the first case, reviewing historical artifacts - including records - analysing the materials assembled and reaching a conclusion, and, in the second case, after completing experiments or structured observations based on hypotheses and the subsequent analysis of the results.

Again, the Bible is neither of these things.

 

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #12 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:14:29 »
Actually, I've been discussing the purpose, not the application.

When discussing any biblical issues other than salvation, you are no longer talking about the primary purpose of the bible. But that wouldn't mean the bible no longer applies.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #13 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:18:37 »
I would submit that the Bible was written by men, and that some of what it relates is true, while some may not be literally true.  It may be allegorical, metaphorical, or simply the result of passing down hundreds of years of oral tradition.

The truth of the Bible--and the primary purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell--is to share the story of God's love for us.

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #14 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:20:23 »
I would submit that the Bible was written by men, and that some of what it relates is true, while some may not be literally true.  It may be allegorical, metaphorical, or simply the result of passing down hundreds of years of oral tradition.

The truth of the Bible--and the primary purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell--is God's love for us.

This is where our disagreement lies. I believe the bible as the infallible, inerrant Word of the living God.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #15 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:22:59 »
Then our conversation about evolution would be nothing more than a fruitless argument.  Thus, it is probably pointless.

NarrowWay

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #16 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:25:56 »
There is no other authority for God's Word than The Bible.  If you do not believe The Bible then you aren't a Christian.  You cannot be in fellowship with the world and walk with Our Lord and Saviour, Christ the King.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #17 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:32:41 »
'Believing the Bible' and 'taking the Bible literally' are two different things.  However, as I expected, this conversation has quickly gone the way of you're not a true Christian if...

I don't play that game.  It's unfortunate that others do and are unable to engage in a reasonable conversation.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #18 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:40:27 »
I would submit that the Bible was written by men, and that some of what it relates is true, while some may not be literally true.  It may be allegorical, metaphorical, or simply the result of passing down hundreds of years of oral tradition.

The truth of the Bible--and the primary purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell--is to share the story of God's love for us.

How do you know which part to accept as truth or not? How do you know the part about God's love is really true? Coulda been wishfull thinking on man's part. (not my view!)

Offline Chrestian

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #19 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:44:30 »
Speaking of purposes...

The original purpose of this thread was to find out how Christinas who believe that evolution is true explain the creation of the universe and everything in it.

I did not and will not define terms because that should be the responsibility of the people presenting their viewpoints.

The Bible as a history or science book is not the main focus here. If one wants to say that he/she is a biblical literalist and then claim to believe in evolution then we would have a problem. I want to give some breathing room to those who are not biblical literalists. I am a biblical literalist, but I want to hear the other views. I also expect to hear reasons for those views.

Let's give them a chance to be heard.

C.
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:26:48 by Chrestian »

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #20 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:45:20 »
Jaime --

Do you think logic is a gift or a curse?  Is logic from God?

Offline kamakaz

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #21 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:57:52 »
not to get off topic, as i am also waiting to hear what Christians and evolutionists have in common, but as far as the bible being a history book, it is. Why would God spend so much time breaking down the bible to even include geneology of people from the beginning all the way to Jesus, and what about future historical events that are recorded? The completed history of this age has been given to us for our benefit.

And as far as not taking all the bible literal, that is scary, because you then have to or get to pick and choose what to believe and not to believe. One could say that angels interaction with man was a metephore, or satan was not real just some way to describe adams sin nature. Even with the illistrations and symbols of the bible, we must count them as real and from God, and then understand them in context of the complete text. Was there a real prodical Son, with a real name that Jesus was specifically referring to in that parable, who knows, but it does not discount the context of the story, that man has turned on God, tried to do it on his own, to only find out he was wrong and turn back to God in forgiveness and repentance, and God accepting man back.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #22 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 14:58:39 »
Jaime --

Do you think logic is a gift or a curse?  Is logic from God?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but yeah I guess logic is from God. But logic can't explain to me how a man nailed to a piece of wood can save my soul from the hell I deserve.

Logic can't explain why God would command Joshua and the Israelites to kill all the men, women, children and farm animals of the Caananites, but he did.

Logic can't explan how men that spoke different languages all heard Peter's sermon in Acts 2 in their on native languages, but they did.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #23 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:05:05 »
Quote
Why would God spend so much time breaking down the bible to even include geneology of people from the beginning all the way to Jesus, and what about future historical events that are recorded?

God Himself 'broke down the Bible'?  I don't understand.

And you all will have to forgive me for my ignorance.  I'm not from a literalist tradition.  I can't relate to literalism at all.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #24 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:10:04 »
Quote
Why would God spend so much time breaking down the bible to even include geneology of people from the beginning all the way to Jesus, and what about future historical events that are recorded?

God Himself 'broke down the Bible'?  I don't understand.

And you all will have to forgive me for my ignorance.  I'm not from a literalist tradition.  I can't relate to literalism at all.

I think what he was referring to was that God inspired every word of the Bible down to every last detail.
'
Me personally, if it ain't inspired, I don't have the least use for it.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #25 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:12:39 »
I'm looking at 13 different definitions of 'inspired.'  What do you mean by 'inspired'?

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #26 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:28:57 »
I'm looking at 13 different definitions of 'inspired.'  What do you mean by 'inspired'?

Quote
2Ti 3:16  All3956 Scripture1124 is given by inspiration of God,2315 and2532 is profitable5624 for4314 doctrine,1319 for4314 reproof,1650 for4314 correction,1882 for4314 instruction3809 in1722 righteousness:1343

From the Greek dictionary, the phrase "is given by inspiration of God" means God breathed.

You might say, well what does God breathed mean? To me, it means his spirit guided the thoughts and the pens of the writers.

Does that make logical sense? No.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #27 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:31:45 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Offline Carico

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #28 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:31:54 »
I accept that species adapt and evolve.  I accept that the Bible is neither a science book nor a history book.   

I accept that I do not know everything.

I don't know why you would say the bible isn't a history book, since the bible contains a more accurate account of historical events then all of the written documents of Greco-Roman culture combined.

I would say that because the purpose of the Bible, as far as I can tell, is not to provide a precise timeline of historic events.

Actually it's both. Since the bible is the truth every way you look at it, then it's true historically, as well as spiritually and scientifically. In fact, it's far more detailed than any other history book. It even details the number of men, down to the man, in David's armies as well as the kinds of weapons that were used. It tells which figures came from which ancestors all the way back to Adam.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #29 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:33:22 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Are you saying you are a literalist now?

CSloan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #30 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:35:42 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Are you saying you are a literalist now?

If it only were that easy.

Offline Carico

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #31 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:36:04 »
Jaime --

Do you think logic is a gift or a curse?  Is logic from God?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but yeah I guess logic is from God. But logic can't explain to me how a man nailed to a piece of wood can save my soul from the hell I deserve.

Logic can't explain why God would command Joshua and the Israelites to kill all the men, women, children and farm animals of the Caananites, but he did.

Logic can't explan how men that spoke different languages all heard Peter's sermon in Acts 2 in their on native languages, but they did.

Actually, one would have to absorb the depth and degree of the sins of those whom God destroys to understand his justice.

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #32 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:36:27 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Are you saying you are a literalist now?

Not at all.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #33 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:40:55 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Are you saying you are a literalist now?

Not at all.

Well, that was probably the wrong question. Do you now believe the entire Bible is inspired by God?

Offline don has a plan

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Re: How Do Christians Who Believe Evolution Explain Creation?
« Reply #34 on: Wed Sep 12, 2007 - 15:45:26 »
Ok.  Fair enough.  Thanks.

Are you saying you are a literalist now?

Not at all.

Well, that was probably the wrong question. Do you now believe the entire Bible is inspired by God?

The back-and-forth on this thread (thanks for being civil, btw) has not changed my opinion, no.


 

     
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