Author Topic: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?  (Read 1174 times)

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Offline dan p

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WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« on: Mon May 23, 2022 - 19:54:16 »
 And just like the  OLD  COVENENT , water  baptism ,also was  set  aside , can you believe that ??

 In Acts 1:5  it  reads ,  for  John indeed  BAPTIZED  (  WITH  ) water , BUT  you will  baptized with  Holy  Spirit  NOT  many days of  these days  after .

 #1 And  question that need to  be  answered , why are the Greek  words  SHALL  BE  BAPTIZED / in the  FUTURE  TENSE  , PASSIVE  VOICE  and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD .

 #2 The  Greek word  THE  HOLY / HAGIOS is in the  DATIVE  CASE , SINGULAR  as this  case means the  INDIRECT  OBJECT means the  equivalent to the  IDEA of  "  to  " and  " in  , and  "  with .

 #3 The  Greek word  SPIRIT / PNEUMA is  also in the  DATIVE  CASE .

 #4 The  Greek  word  NOT / OV  is a   DISJUNCATIVE  PARTICLE PRONOUN  , that the  Baptism with  HOLY  SPIRIT  will  COME .

 #5 And wil  come in  DAYS / HEMERA , is in the  ACCUSATIVE  CASE  and means those will come  soon ,  PLURAL .

 # And the next Greek word  HENCE / HOYTOS  is also in the  ACCUSCATIVE  CASE .

 dan p

Offline RB

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #1 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 04:10:16 »
And just like the  OLD COVENANT, water baptism also was set aside, can you believe that ??
I would "if" I could read and see it clearly written in the scriptures, and since it's not even remotely there, so, what I'm having a hard time believing is that folks like you believe it is no longer a commandment of God.

Prove water baptism was set aside~you will have to do some serious gymnastics hermeneutics~I will warn you ahead of time....... you may impress men, but God will not be impressed with such gymnastics.
Quote from: dan p on: Yesterday at 19:54:16
In Acts 1:5  it reads,  for  John indeed  BAPTIZED  ( WITH ) water, BUT you will be baptized with  Holy  Spirit NOT many days of these days after.
That verse does not support your wild accusation. Besides, John's baptism was indeed a baptism unto repentance, only his had NO PROMISE of the Spirit's baptism included with it.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 19:1-7~"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve."
They had no knowledge of the Spirit being given to ALL saints under the New Covenant, as a matter of truth, they had received very little knowledge concerning the Spirit of God. The gift of the Spirit is there for Christians under the New Covenant just they need to understand how to use the Spirit's ever-living presence with them.

Here in Acts 19, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus was performed by Paul showing the difference between John's ministry and Jesus' ministry. During the time of reformation going from John's ministry and Jesus' outward evidence were given to its followers, with such evidence gradually disappearing, where now the main evidence of the indwelling Spirit is OBEDIENCE, or in biblical termology~walking in the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Galatians 5:16-25~"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Walk in the SpiritWalk in the Spirit.
The fruit of the Spirit is NOT speaking in tongues but walking after God's commandments! The Pentecostals have invented a shortcut of being filled with the Spirit of God with their gibberish tongue movement. Sorry for the short rabbit trail I just went on, well, not sorry too much.
Quote
1 And  question that need to  be  answered , why are the Greek  words  SHALL  BE  BAPTIZED / in the  FUTURE  TENSE  , PASSIVE  VOICE  and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD .

 #2 The  Greek word  THE  HOLY / HAGIOS is in the  DATIVE  CASE , SINGULAR  as this  case means the  INDIRECT  OBJECT means the  equivalent to the  IDEA of  "  to  " and  " in  , and  "  with .

 #3 The  Greek word  SPIRIT / PNEUMA is  also in the  DATIVE  CASE .

 #4 The  Greek  word  NOT / OV  is a   DISJUNCATIVE  PARTICLE PRONOUN  , that the  Baptism with  HOLY  SPIRIT  will  COME .

 #5 And wil  come in  DAYS / HEMERA , is in the  ACCUSATIVE  CASE  and means those will come  soon ,  PLURAL .

 # And the next Greek word  HENCE / HOYTOS  is also in the  ACCUSCATIVE  CASE .
Not interesting in even attempting to answer this LONG rabbit trail that serves no purpose. Actually, you can answer these questions by using our English Bible, with me the KJV.
« Last Edit: Tue May 24, 2022 - 04:12:47 by RB »

Offline DaveW

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #2 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 05:21:53 »
Dan - there are 7 distinct baptisms listed in the Apostolic Scriptures (aka the NT) and all but 1 are still valid. The only one required is Christian water baptism, and that requirement is directed at the evangelist/discipler and not the new convert.

1 - John's baptism (no longer valid)
2 - Christian water baptism
3 - Baptism in/of/with/by the Holy Spirit
4 - Baptism of fire
5 - baptism of suffering
6 - Baptism into the Body of Messiah
7 - Baptism for the dead

Offline 4WD

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #3 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 07:24:58 »
WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPEAR? It didn't. Period. Enough said.

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #3 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 07:24:58 »

Offline dan p

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #4 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 12:52:10 »
 And  can  not answer SHALL BE is in the  Greek  FUTURE  TENSE , PASSIVE and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD is not a  rabbit trail , as these  Greek words  have  TENSES ,  VOICES , CASES  , MOODS  and a  ton of  PRONOUNS , just to let know and they are  easy to LEARN and those that go to   BIBLE  SCHOOL  learn what I just  wrote .

 dan p

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #4 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 12:52:10 »

Offline dan p

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #5 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 13:12:27 »
 And  here  again we see the  Greek  word  BAPTISMA ,  in  Acts 19:2 and 3 when Paul  found disciples and did not know whether there is HOLY  SPIRIT .

 Then in  verse 3 , Paul asked  them , for what  reason were you  BAPTIZED  FOR ?

 Then in verse 3 these  disciple say , into the  BAPTISMA OF  John and when checking the  Greek text , it is  BAPTISMA .

 Then in  verse  6 Paul ,  having  LAID  HANDS upon them ,  HOLY  SPIRIT  came upon them and they n were  speaking in  TONGUES and  were  PROPHESYING and this was  NOT  PENTECOSTAL GIBBERISH and why did you say that ??

dan p

Offline DaveW

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #6 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 13:43:10 »
And  here  again we see the  Greek  word  BAPTISMA ,  in  Acts 19:2 and 3 when Paul  found disciples and did not know whether there is HOLY  SPIRIT .
Derek Prince used that passage to prove the verbal blessing over Christian immersion in Acts was in the triune name of Father Son and Holy Spirit.  Since they had not heard of the Holy Spirit, Paul immediately questioned their baptism. If they had proper triune Christian baptism, they would have at least heard of the Holy Spirit at that time.  (as opposed to the "Jesus Name Only" baptism now being taught in some circles)

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #7 on: Tue May 24, 2022 - 15:10:03 »
Derek Prince used that passage to prove the verbal blessing over Christian immersion in Acts was in the triune name of Father Son and Holy Spirit.  Since they had not heard of the Holy Spirit, Paul immediately questioned their baptism. If they had proper triune Christian baptism, they would have at least heard of the Holy Spirit at that time.  (as opposed to the "Jesus Name Only" baptism now being taught in some circles)
That is not a proof.  Just a logical supposition.

If anything, it just proves that John's baptism did not use that formula.

Offline RB

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 25, 2022 - 03:17:11 »
And can not answer SHALL BE is in the  Greek  FUTURE  TENSE, PASSIVE and in the  INDICATIVE  MOOD is not a  rabbit trail, as these  Greek words have  TENSES,  VOICES, CASES, MOODS  and a  ton of  PRONOUNS, just to let know and they are easy to LEARN and those that go to BIBLE SCHOOL learn what I just wrote.
All you said above is TRUE of our English scriptures. No one needs to understand Greek to understand better the word of God~that's very deceitful preaching of those who say you must. Again, the natural Greeks are just as ignorant of the scriptures as any English-speaking person trying to learn Greek so he could better understand the scriptures. If one would stop and think they should be able to see the fallacy in believing you must~unless, God has hardened their hearts allowing them to believe so, because that's what they want to believe~much like God hardened Pharaoh's heart, or He just left him to his own natural reasoning without showing mercy to him to prevent him from following his own deceitful heart!

Remember, God owes no man or angels MERCY, it IS a free gift given by God's grace.
« Last Edit: Wed May 25, 2022 - 03:25:15 by RB »

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 25, 2022 - 03:17:11 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 26, 2022 - 13:19:34 »
All you said above is TRUE of our English scriptures. No one needs to understand Greek to understand better the word of God~that's very deceitful preaching of those who say you must. Again, the natural Greeks are just as ignorant of the scriptures as any English-speaking person trying to learn Greek so he could better understand the scriptures. If one would stop and think they should be able to see the fallacy in believing you must~unless, God has hardened their hearts allowing them to believe so, because that's what they want to believe~much like God hardened Pharaoh's heart, or He just left him to his own natural reasoning without showing mercy to him to prevent him from following his own deceitful heart!
Don't bother to study to shew thyself approved unto God.  RB 2:15

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Offline dan p

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #10 on: Thu May 26, 2022 - 14:00:11 »
 In Eph 4:5  it reads , One  Lord , one  FAITH , One  BAPTISM .

 Does  ONE / HEIS   mean  ONE ??

 dan p

Offline 4WD

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #11 on: Thu May 26, 2022 - 17:23:37 »
Then in  verse  6 Paul ,  having  LAID  HANDS upon them ,  HOLY  SPIRIT  came upon them and they n were  speaking in  TONGUES and  were  PROPHESYING and this was  NOT  PENTECOSTAL GIBBERISH and why did you say that ??

That was after they had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for which they received forgiveness of sin and received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The laying on of Paul's hands conferred the empowering Holy Spirit allowing them to do the miraculous of prophesying and speak in tongues, which is not a result of baptism.

Offline Reformer

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Re: WHEN DID BAPTISM DISAPPREAR ?
« Reply #12 on: Thu May 26, 2022 - 21:48:42 »
dan p:

    Some, maybe most, of your questions are way out in left field and truly don't need a lot of deep dialoguing. "When Did Baptism Disappear?" is one of them.

No offence,

Buff

 

     
anything