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How do we prove that we will be RESURRECTED ? (Author : dan p)  I need your  thoughts on  WHY  can we know, all Grace  believers will be  RESURRECTED  when  Jesus comes  BACK to   RESCUE ALL  BELIEVERS  , 

 The 2  books that I have been  studying are  1  Cor  15  and  Rom 6 !!

 dan p

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Reply #1 by johntwayne We point to the risen Christ.

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Reply #2 by dan p  And I believe in the  RISEN  CHRIST and I believe that their has to be a  better  answer ! 

 One  verse is in 1  Cor 15:29 !

 The  other verse to see in  Rom 6:4 that I believe have the  answer ?

 dan p

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Reply #3 by RB

And I believe in the RISEN CHRIST and I believe that their has to be a better answer!  One verse is in 1 Cor 15:29! The other verse to see in  Rom 6:4 that I believe have the answer? dan p

Dan, the only answer is "by FAITH" we are persuaded there will be a resurrection at the last day of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Hebrews 11:8-"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

This is the only answer that can be given~we all walk in the same steps of our father Abraham, and our mother Sarah. I'm PERSUADED and have judged God to be faithful to what he has promised in His precious word.

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Reply #4 by NyawehNyoh .
Say you were hauled into a court of law and required to prove that the crucified dead body of an alleged holy man named Jesus was miraculously restored to life. How would you go about making your case if the court refused to admit the Bible into evidence?
_

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Reply #5 by dan p   And my answer to you is  found in  Rom 6:4  !!

 What say you ?

 dan p

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Reply #6 by RB

And my answer to you is  found in Rom 6:4!! What say you ? dan p

Romans 6:4~"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

What answer do you see here? You tell me, and then I'll post again. 

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Reply #7 by dan p   And the  first word that has to researched , is the word  BAPTISM !

 When  I  looked at the  Greek it is the  Greek word , BAPTISMA    ,  a  noun .

 This  Greek  word is used some 22 x  from Matthew --- Ephesians .

And  BAPTISMA  means , someone who  baptizes ,-!

 So Rom 6:4 reads , Therefore we were  buried together with Him (  CHRIST  )  through this  BAPTISMA  INTO  DEATH , in order that just as  Christ  was  raised from the  dead .

 Also , notice that in  Eph 4:5 it reads , One  Lord  , One  Faith , One  BAPTISM  and here it is  NOT   WATER  BAPTISM , but  it means that  under  GRACE  there is only  ONE  BAPTIZER  , the  HOLY  SPIRIT /

If  you are  NOT  , BAPTISMA into Christ  death , you will not be  RESURRECTED as this  also explains 1  Cor  15: 29  BAPTISM for the  DEAD .

 dan p

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Reply #8 by 4WD

 
And  BAPTISMA  means , someone who  baptizes ,-!

It most certainly does not mean someone who baptizes. It means the act of baptizing, i.e, immersion.

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Reply #9 by dan p  And DID  you look at the  Greek  text ??

 QUESTION for you , every time you  the  word  BAPTISM , does it mean  WATER ?

 dan p

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Reply #10 by 4WD

And DID  you look at the  Greek  text ??

Yes.

QUESTION for you , every time you  the  word  BAPTISM , does it mean  WATER ?

When speaking of "Christian baptism", yes it means immersion in water.

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Reply #11 by Rella

Yes.When speaking of "Christian baptism", yes it means immersion in water.

In what context are you referring to "Christian baptism''?

Dan asked this.

QUESTION for you , every time you  the  word  BAPTISM , does it mean  WATER ?

[/size]

You must clarify that statement of YES. For we are clearly sown that John told us  that Jesus would "baptize" with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11~ Mark 1:8 ~Luke 3:16 ~ John 1:33-34~  Acts 1:5~  Acts 11:16

 Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:  (There is no mention of water relating to this baptism)

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

I will stop the quotes from the above mentioned 6 verses with a brief commentary and caution that a simple statement, in answer to a complex question most often will muddy the waters for many reading.

Ummmm

We know that Jesus did not "baptize with the Holy Spirit" during his three and a half year ministry or during his time with the apostles after his resurrection... no one did... for our Lord's departing words to his disciples were ""Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

Jesus furthered that idea John 7: 37-39 ....If anyone is thirsty let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him. By this Jesus meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given

I submit that any baptizing with the Holy Spirit is every bit as much of a Christian baptism...as is the water baptism

And there is no water involved.[/size]

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Reply #12 by NyawehNyoh .
If a man dies will he live again? (Job 14:14)

Back in the ancient world; men like Job were attuned to nature. In point of fact, Job was a very successful rancher; a guy who made his living working outdoors.

Every year he watched things die in the Fall and come back in the Spring. If only human life were like that; but alas, when people die they typically don't regenerate like the new leaves on a dormant maple tree and/or new sprouts of green grass from the roots.
_

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Reply #13 by 4WD

You must clarify that statement of YES. For we are clearly sown that John told us  that Jesus would "baptize" with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11~ Mark 1:8 ~Luke 3:16 ~ John 1:33-34~  Acts 1:5~  Acts 11:16  Matt 3:11

I would state first that by "Christian baptism" I am referring to that presented in Acts 2:38, and elsewhere.  That is baptism for the forgiveness of sin and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I would further argue, and have on several occasions here, that baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit is the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit, also as related in Acts 2:38. Thus "Christian baptism", i.e., immersion in water for the forgiveness of sin and receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit is baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit.

I submit that any baptizing with the Holy Spirit is every bit as much of a Christian baptism...as is the water baptism

And there is no water involved

And given my statements above, I submit that Christian baptism is Holy Spirit baptism.

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Reply #14 by RB

And the  first word that has to researched, is the word  BAPTISM!

Dan, I just looked up to see how long you have been posting here, and to my surprise, you first joined thirteen and a half years ago; so, you should know that this subject has been well considered and considering this forum was started by the Church of Christ-members or, at least closely associated with them, it should not even be a question whether or not his subject has been researched, it has many times over and will many times in the future, and that's okay for any new reader that needs to better understand this all-important Christian doctrine.

When  I  looked at the Greek it is the Greek word, BAPTISMA, a  noun. This  Greek word is used some 22 x  from Matthew --- Ephesians.

Well, I am very contended laboring to search the truth out using my English Bible that God has so graciously given to his children who speak the English language. If I just can master the truth in my own language through the help of the Spirit of God, then I will hold it fast and defend the truth, so help me God. So far, I have been very blessed, and happy doing so. I do not need a Doctor of Divinity or deal with the pride of thinking I know the truth in a language that is not my mother tongue when the truth is to be found in my tongue.

Besides all this, NO MAN LIVING truly knows what tongue the epistles were written in when they were written to several different churches in several different cities in different counties of the world. Those handwritten epistles could have been written in one particular language to the church that it was intended for and later gathered together into the one greek manuscripts and from there translated into different tongues around the world after the invention of the printing press. ALONG, the God of heaven preserving his word from being corrupted by the hands of maybe well-intended men~per Psalm 12.

And  BAPTISMA  means, someone who baptizes ,-!

I agree with 4WD, (with a few exceptions) when he said:

It most certainly does not mean someone who baptizes. It means the act of baptizing, i.e, immersion.

Later we might look at the exceptions.

So Rom 6:4 reads, Therefore we were buried together with Him (  CHRIST  )  through this  BAPTISMA  INTO  DEATH, in order that just as  Christ was raised from the dead.

 Also, notice that in  Eph 4:5 it reads, One  Lord, One  Faith, One  BAPTISM, and here it is  NOT   WATER  BAPTISM, but  it means that  under  GRACE  there is only  ONE  BAPTIZER, the  HOLY  SPIRIT /

Dan you are confusing this doctrine. The baptism in Romans 6:4 is water baptism INTO Jesus Christ's religion/faith/doctrine, etc. It is when we first come to Christ and render an answer of a good conscience unto the question: "BELIEVEST THOU THIS?" If so, then thou mayest be baptized into this truth religion of Jesus Christ. If anyone has received the evidence of the new birth and the gift of the Spirit, they are commanded to arise and be baptrised~per Acts 10.

Acts 10:47,49~"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The ONE baptism in Ephesians 4 is water baptism, the main doctrine that separates the religion of Jesus Christ from all other religions in this world. Much more could be said, but enough for now.

If you are NOT, BAPTISMA into Christ's death, you will not be  RESURRECTED as this also explains 1  Cor  15: 29  BAPTISM for the  DEAD.

When I first read this day so or so, I wanted to comment then but time would not allow me to do so. I'm coming back to this since again some of my grandchildren are calling for me to come to the pool and sit and talk with them.

Btw, one of my oldest grandsons wants me to address the subject of BAPTISM with him and his wife to be as soon as I can and when she arrives back from vacation before they are married~not that it is related in any way, just they want to be on the same page of understanding I assume, but do not know~maybe they were reading and had questions that needed to be answered.

Later, I'll finish. 

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Reply #15 by NyawehNyoh .
Willie Nelson
I was a highway man along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
The ******** hung me in the spring of twenty-five
But I am still alive

Kris Kristofferson
I was a sailor, I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide
I sailed a schooner round the horn to Mexico
I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still

Waylon Jennings
I was a dam builder
Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around, I'll always be around
And around, and around, and around, and around.

Johnny Cash
I fly a starship across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I'll be back again, and again
And again and again and again and again

Highwayman
Jimmy Webb 1977
_

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Reply #16 by RB

If you are NOT, BAPTISMA into Christ's death, you will not be  RESURRECTED as this also explains 1 Cor  15: 29  BAPTISM for the DEAD.

Whether one is baptized into Christ's death or not, will not be the determining factor of whether or not they will be resurrected~ All will be, both the righteous and the wicked. Water baptism also is not the determining factor if the righteous will be raised to eternal life~for millions will be who have never baptized into the faith, religion, or teachings of Jesus Christ.

1st Corinthians 15:12-29~"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

The apostles testified that God raised Jesus from the dead, yet some in Corinth were teaching that there was NO RESURRECTION of the dead~yet, when they were baptized into Christ............. they, in essence, were saying (to the eyes of men as the gospel said to the ears of men) we believe in a future bodily resurrection which Christ the first fruit secured for his people.

So, Paul was asking them why are some among you saying there is no resurrection when you were baptized saying you DO Believe in a future resurrection....their baptism said they believe in the resurrection of the dead. They were inconsistent in what they once confess and did to what they were now confessing to believe.

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Reply #17 by RB

.
Willie Nelson
I was a highway man along the coach roads I did ride
With sword and pistol by my side
Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade
Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade
The ******** hung me in the spring of twenty-five
But I am still alive

Kris Kristofferson
I was a sailor, I was born upon the tide
And with the sea I did abide
I sailed a schooner round the horn to Mexico
I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow
And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed
But I am living still

Waylon Jennings
I was a dam builder
Across the river deep and wide
Where steel and water did collide
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound
But I am still around, I'll always be around
And around, and around, and around, and around.

Johnny Cash
I fly a starship across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
And I'll be back again, and again
And again and again and again and again

Highwayman
Jimmy Webb 1977
_

Maybe your deep thinking has lost me, but I have no clue as to why you posted this.

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Reply #18 by Rella

I would state first that by "Christian baptism" I am referring to that presented in Acts 2:38, and elsewhere.  That is baptism for the forgiveness of sin and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I would further argue, and have on several occasions here, that baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit is the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit, also as related in Acts 2:38. Thus "Christian baptism", i.e., immersion in water for the forgiveness of sin and receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit is baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit.
And given my statements above, I submit that Christian baptism is Holy Spirit baptism.

Whatever.

You answered Dan's " QUESTION for you , every time you  the  word  BAPTISM , does it mean  WATER ?'

With a yes, when it refers to Christian Baptism it refers to water.... but that is not 100% accurate. Yes, the baptism or gift of the Holy Spirit is a Christian one....

While it is assumed, based on translations that those who receive the Holy Spirit have at some point been water baptized....
John does not mention a second water baptism when he says.... John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

No water is suggested for this Holt Ghost mention.

Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

So we are told they will be baptized by the Holy Ghost some days after they got the water one.

It was not at the same time and when you say yes, Christian Baptism is always of water, you confuse those who actually do read things and start to question.

Even the disciples received the gift of the Holy Spirit directly after Jesus had ascended and returned to tell them to wait.

MHO is that in answer to Dan's question should be usually, With further explanation.

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Reply #19 by 4WD

It was not at the same time and when you say yes, Christian Baptism is always of water, you confuse those who actually do read things and start to question.

Why the derogatory comment?

Even the disciples received the gift of the Holy Spirit directly after Jesus had ascended and returned to tell them to wait.

....after Jesus had ascended and returened....? ? ? ?

MHO is that in answer to Dan's question should be usually, With further explanation.

I prefer God's word to your HO. 

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Reply #20 by Texas Conservative Pretty obvious in the NT that when talking about "Christian baptism" it is talking about water. 

Physical reality and spiritual reality can both be referenced in the act.

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Reply #21 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Say you were hauled into a court of law and required to prove that the crucified dead body of an alleged holy man named Jesus was miraculously restored to life. How would you go about making your case if the court refused to admit the Bible into evidence?

This court wants me to swear on the Bible, but doesn't believe its testimony?  That sounds more like an indictment of the court.  What court doesn't allow witnesses?

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Reply #22 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh

I submit that any baptizing with the Holy Spirit is every bit as much of a Christian baptism...as is the water baptism

And there is no water involved.

Only God can baptize in the Spirit.  It's a sure thing that wherever it talks about people baptizing people, they're using water.

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Reply #23 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Maybe your deep thinking has lost me, but I have no clue as to why you posted this.

If Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, and Willie Nelson say there's life-after-death, then by gum you'd better believe it! 

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Reply #24 by RB

This court wants me to swear on the Bible, but doesn't believe its testimony?  That sounds more like an indictment of the court.  What court doesn't allow witnesses?

Your answer was better than mine.

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Reply #25 by dan p And if  BAPTISMA  means IMMERSION  , explain  1  Cor  10:1 , when Israel was  BAPTIZED  unto  Moses  ,  in the  CLOUD  and  in the  SEA ?

 dan p

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Reply #26 by DaveW

I need your  thoughts on  WHY  can we know, all Grace  believers will be  RESURRECTED  when  Jesus comes  BACK to   RESCUE ALL  BELIEVERS  , 

 The 2  books that I have been  studying are  1  Cor  15  and  Rom 6 !!

What do you take as "PROOF?"

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Reply #27 by 4WD In 1 Corinthians 10:2 the use of the transliteration "baptized" is not a very good translation.  The better translation would be immersed, specifically, a figurative immersion.  We speak of someone immersed in his studies; namely his being entirely consumed with or overwhelmed with his studies. There is no connotation of the present English word baptize in such an immersion.  In the same way, the Hebrews in crossing the Red Sea were immersed into Moses; that is they were consumed with or overwhelmed with Moses and what God was doing through him with the cloud and the sea. In their being literally immersed within the cloud and the sea, they were figuratively immersed into Moses.

As Christians, when we were baptized, i.e, literally immersed, in water into the name of Christ Jesus, it is said that we were baptized, i.e., figuratively immersed, into Christ

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Reply #28 by NyawehNyoh .

I have no clue as to why you posted this.

I have no clue why some folks hereabouts are quarreling over baptism when the topic is resurrection.

Well; the Highwayman song is about reincarnation which, though still off-topic, is quite a bit closer to resurrection than baptism. At least reincarnation is about folks returning from the dead.
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Reply #29 by Texas Conservative

If Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, and Willie Nelson say there's life-after-death, then by gum you'd better believe it! 

You forgot Kris Kristofferson.

Now Kris is saying "Why me?"

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Reply #30 by NyawehNyoh .

This court wants me to swear on the Bible, but doesn't believe its testimony?  That sounds more like an indictment of the court.  What court doesn't allow witnesses?

The written testimony of Biblical witnesses is not only too old to be taken seriously, but also uncertified, viz: their testimony amounts to little more than hear-say; which in most courts is inadmissible; and that's not even taking into account that the Bible has been re-written, re-translated, revised, and copied over and over again so many times to the point that nobody is really sure anymore whether what we have to work with is even true to the original manuscripts.

It is God's will that Christians believe things that cannot be proven true beyond a hint of sensible doubt. In other words: that Christians come across to the world as naive chumps.
_

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Reply #31 by NyawehNyoh .

You forgot Kris Kristofferson.

KK is an amazing guy. He graduated West Point, advanced to Captain, completed the Airborne school, the Ranger school, and learned to fly a helicopter before giving it all up for the world of entertainment. He's had quite a life.

* One of the tragedies of Hell is that folks like KK will never again be able to even so much as touch a guitar let alone pick one up and play something. I'm not saying KK is on a road to Hell, only using him as an example of guys like Eddie Van Halen, Chuck Berry, BB King, Mike Dawes, Tommy Emmanuel, etc. Should talented guys like those end up on the wrong side of things, their existence in the afterlife will be very frustrating.
_

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Reply #32 by DaveW

You forgot Kris Kristofferson.
Now Kris is saying "Why me?"

Hey!  That song is what introduced me to my wife.

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Reply #33 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh

The written testimony of Biblical witnesses is not only too old to be taken seriously,

If you want me to prove something from 2000 years ago, then 2000 year old testimony should be admissable.  Probably preferred, even.

but also uncertified, viz: their testimony amounts to little more than hear-say; which in most courts is inadmissible;

The four gospels are all written by eye-witnesses.  They are not hear-say.  If you'd like to make that argument against Paul, it might apply there.

and that's not even taking into account that the Bible has been re-written, re-translated, revised, and copied over and over again so many times to the point that nobody is really sure anymore whether what we have to work with is even true to the original manuscripts.

False.  We have manuscripts dating all the way back to the 3rd century for the New Testament, and to the 1st century BC for the Old.  We have more expert testimony and critical analysis of those manuscripts than a court could even consider.  Moreover, the Bible is not one book, but 66 books.  If you want to bring that argument, you could perhaps do so on a case-by-case basis, book by book, or even chapter by chapter.

It is God's will that Christians believe things that cannot be proven true beyond a hint of sensible doubt. In other words: that Christians come across to the world as naive chumps.

That's a terrible misunderstanding of what faith is.

Jarrod

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Reply #34 by dan p And the  best to you as you will try to explain what BAPTISM  means to them .

 I did not know that you all ,are  from  the CHURCH OF  CHRIST and when in high  school , I did  attend a  CHURCH  OF  CHRIST .

 I am an  ACTS  9:6  DISPENSATIONALIST  , and at one  time ,I was  a  member of a  DISPENSATIONAL  web  site and when they found out out  I did  not believe in  WATER  BAPTISM , they  BANNED  ME and now I see , why many are for  WATER  BAPTISM .

 and  why many here do not  understand  TENSES ,  VOICES , MOODS and  CASES and I will  consider to  withdraw from this  site , as I do  not  mind being  challenged on any  subject .

 dan p

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