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Author Topic: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"  (Read 11199 times)

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gillandro

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How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:11:20 »
I often wonder if GOD supposedly has a plan for everyone and everything  why would god give is this great animal, a dog, which lives only 15 years and yet becomes so intertwined with our lives.  Seems kind of cruel if you think of it.  Imagine having a 5 year old child and giving them a puppy, then after a half hour taking the puppy away from them..  what was the point of that?  what does it teach them.  why would a supposedly benevolent god give us such a gift and then just snatch it away all the more quickly? 
your thoughts?

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How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:11:20 »

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #1 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:22:14 »
You seem to have a lot of resentment against God. Is this really about dogs?

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #1 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:22:14 »

Offline Beta

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #2 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:27:02 »
This world with everything in it and on it is TEMPORARY.
A greater purpose is being worked out through it....but this life is the starting-point and we need to accept the way God has it set out. We can find out more by studying His Word.  ::reading:: ::pray::

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #2 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:27:02 »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:31:00 »
Good observation Never hope they will answer so we can get to the meat of this discussion.

That is a good response Beta, we must remember this world is not our home we are just a passing through. Our treasures are to be laid up in Heaven. That is where our Home is with God.

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 11:31:00 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 14:33:24 »
it's not a resentment against god.. it's a resentment on a god held back by dogma...but  yes my question is really about dogs.  I have had tons of dogs in my life.  some with more personality than others and I think it is just a sad thing to have to lose a beloved animal as they are the most innocent of creatures in my opinion.

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 14:33:24 »



gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #5 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 14:42:32 »
This world with everything in it and on it is TEMPORARY.
A greater purpose is being worked out through it....but this life is the starting-point and we need to accept the way God has it set out. We can find out more by studying His Word.  ::reading:: ::pray::


I like this response as well but I still rather get the answer from the horses mouth if you excuse the pun.  but I think that it is still heart breaking.  I had recently got a kitten and she died within a week, I reconciled the issue without "the word" of god just by realizing at least in that sense it wasn't so much the time she had with my family but the joy she gave to us and the happiness we gave to her.   

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #5 on: Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 14:42:32 »

HRoberson

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #6 on: Fri Feb 03, 2012 - 21:31:51 »
No, God does not have a specific plan for everyone. The plan is that you grow into the Likeness you were made to be. The generalities and trappings of how that happens are largely superfluous.

If you got connected with a goldfish, it would die sooner than the dog. It isn't that "God takes it away," but that mortal things die. Shoes wear out. Jobs change. TV series end. Mania cannot be sustained indefinitely. "Non-sinning periods are finite.

God gave you the world to enjoy, not cling to. You should only cling to God.

The dog, and your ability to enjoy it, are both gifts from God.

Offline chosenone

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #7 on: Fri Feb 03, 2012 - 21:37:51 »
I love God and I also have had dogs. I think they are great. I have my 5th rescue dog now. I miss them all, but I dont blame God for making their live span shorter than ours. Three of the dogs that I adopted were older, one 6 one 9, and one a deaf dog who was 10, so my time with them was even shorter, but I dont regret it, as older dogs are harder to place in homes.
Death is sadly part of life while we are on earth. If one dies we have room for another unwanted one.There is always joy and sadness with loving anything or anyone, but the years of pleasure that they give, far outweighs the deep sadness when they die.The only way to aviod the pain of bereavement is never to love anything or anyone, and what a sad life that would be.

Offline Teresa

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #8 on: Fri Feb 03, 2012 - 21:51:31 »
I often wonder if GOD supposedly has a plan for everyone and everything  why would god give is this great animal, a dog, which lives only 15 years and yet becomes so intertwined with our lives.  Seems kind of cruel if you think of it.  Imagine having a 5 year old child and giving them a puppy, then after a half hour taking the puppy away from them..  what was the point of that?  what does it teach them.  why would a supposedly benevolent god give us such a gift and then just snatch it away all the more quickly?  
your thoughts?
This is an argument that most atheists bring up.  Why would a good and loving God allow suffering?

This question is only plausible for the atheist because there is no belief in the after life. If this is indeed all the life we have then that is rather senseless. But then again how can one who believe that that we are mindless byproducts of evolution call that senseless, when by virtue of one's atheistic belief, the suffering would also be a mindless by product of evolution as well.

But once you factor in God and the after life, then everything makes sense.  Temporary pain for a more everlasting good is more than reasonable.

A man who is sick will subject himself to the pain of surgery and the attendant post operative pain and discomfort because he sees a better future once this is complete.

It is also impossible to completely fathom the mind of God. Far more impossible than one's dog comprehending one's mind.

God is able to bring good out of the most miserable of conditions.

Peace and All Good

Teresa

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #8 on: Fri Feb 03, 2012 - 21:51:31 »

Offline Teresa

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #9 on: Fri Feb 03, 2012 - 22:17:04 »
God gave you the world to enjoy, not cling to. You should only cling to God.

The dog, and your ability to enjoy it, are both gifts from God.
And that is a good summary of it.

There is a tendency to cling the gift rather than the Giver.

When one does the Spiritual Exercise of St Ignatius of Loyola, there is always this reminder to "Seek the God of consolations rather than the consolations of God".

Peace and All Good

Teresa

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #10 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 01:20:12 »
Your point about the dog makes me think of something God would have all of us learn: EVERYTHING in this life that gives comfort or happiness comes and goes, and God would have you learn to trust in him who provides those things and never changes or goes away--mortal things are, at best, glimpses into the goodness of God who is eternal and unchanging.

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #11 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 05:46:33 »
No, God does not have a specific plan for everyone. The plan is that you grow into the Likeness you were made to be. The generalities and trappings of how that happens are largely superfluous.

If you got connected with a goldfish, it would die sooner than the dog. It isn't that "God takes it away," but that mortal things die. Shoes wear out. Jobs change. TV series end. Mania cannot be sustained indefinitely. "Non-sinning periods are finite.

God gave you the world to enjoy, not cling to. You should only cling to God.

The dog, and your ability to enjoy it, are both gifts from God.

your post is the first answer to my question that I feel I can live with.  we love dogs but they die young not because of something god did but that we chose to make the connection with them... Now that is an answer I can understand and accept.

and to Teresa's post,   does it make me an atheist because I don't believe in the Judeo Christian definition of "God", which by the way doesn't make me want to change my opinion on the matter since that would be saying "my god is better than your god" at least the way I feel.  I do believe in a god, a creator, an architect, a planner of this life that we have been given.

Offline Akaroa

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #12 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 06:27:51 »
Do good dogs go to heaven? You know, like Police dogs, seeing-eye dogs, St Bernards... Are they just a complex piece of the ecosystem to support humans, or does God have a place and purpose for dogs in heaven as well. Just wondering...

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #13 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 06:29:13 »
Even though movies are make believe and not real I tend to agree with some of their view points... children and animals go straight to heaven.  they are innocent by design and untouched by mans failings.

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #14 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 06:36:59 »
Well I feel better about that. However, my wife is alergic to dogs. But, who knows, I might see Rock again. Rock was our farm dog who got run over five times, and then actually died of old age.

But I ramble... time for bed. Your 5am is my 1.30am a day ahead of you.

"Passes a Pohutukawa flower to the next poster.""

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #15 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 07:15:39 »
gillandro
Just a question. If you dont believe in God the Father and Jesus and what he has done for us, why are you here on this site which is for Christians? Is it to seek the truth, or is it to find fault in Our God?

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #16 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 07:18:12 »
Well I feel better about that. However, my wife is alergic to dogs. But, who knows, I might see Rock again. Rock was our farm dog who got run over five times, and then actually died of old age.

But I ramble... time for bed. Your 5am is my 1.30am a day ahead of you.

"Passes a Pohutukawa flower to the next poster.""


 Your wife wont have allergies in heaven!
 I hope that all my dogs will be waiting for me when I get to heaven. I have had 7 in all in my life, and I cant wait to see them again, all playing together and fit and healthy.brilliant!

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #17 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 07:56:02 »
I won't be excited to see my Chihuahua..lol he was a mean dog.

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #18 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 11:16:24 »
gillandro
Just a question. If you don't believe in God the Father and Jesus and what he has done for us, why are you here on this site which is for Christians? Is it to seek the truth, or is it to find fault in Our God?

I am here to have to find answers to my questions... and until someone comes and magically says to me I am not catholic any more he is technically my "God" too.  part of my issue has always been that I think that organizing religion makes the view to narrow in my opinion.   everyone has a different name for God.  and some do some pretty harsh things to prove that their god is better than the other faiths' gods.  I am out for truths.  I enjoy a good debate. but I think besides here I should be asking these questions on more of a panreligious board too.  For me the only minister I will listen to is my sister in law.    ::amen!:: ::pondering:: ::prayinghard:: ::preachit::

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #19 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 11:37:21 »
I won't be excited to see my Chihuahua..lol he was a mean dog.

Ah but he will be nice in heaven!

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #20 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 11:40:17 »
I hope so he couldn't have gotten any meaner. rofl

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #21 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 11:45:14 »
gillandro
Just a question. If you don't believe in God the Father and Jesus and what he has done for us, why are you here on this site which is for Christians? Is it to seek the truth, or is it to find fault in Our God?

I am here to have to find answers to my questions... and until someone comes and magically says to me I am not catholic any more he is technically my "God" too.  part of my issue has always been that I think that organizing religion makes the view to narrow in my opinion.   everyone has a different name for God.  and some do some pretty harsh things to prove that their god is better than the other faiths' gods.  I am out for truths.  I enjoy a good debate. but I think besides here I should be asking these questions on more of a panreligious board too.  For me the only minister I will listen to is my sister in law.    ::amen!:: ::pondering:: ::prayinghard:: ::preachit::


 Dont let one denomination put you off all believers, or put you off God. I too avoid very formal 'religious' churches, but many are really good. friendly, welcoming, relaxed, informal and God is REALLY there.
However not all gods are the same, there is only one true God, and many false gods. There is a book called 'I dared to call him Father' by Bilquis Sheikh. She was a very hig born muslim lady who found the true God. Its is an amazing book.
The god of the muslims is a harsh god of punishment and fear,  the true God is a wonderful Father. I have known Him for 35 years and believe me, He is amazing!

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #22 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 11:46:50 »
I hope so he couldn't have gotten any meaner. rofl


 Yes and I hope that my saluki will have stopped trying to catch and kill every cat, squirrel, rabbit and deer that she sees! Otherwise she will be thrown out!

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #23 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 12:01:06 »
it all boils down to one thing for me the more we look for the one true god  the more I feel that we will never find  the entity that we call "God"  god to me is more abstract than any religion could ever give "him" credit for.  god is the molecules, god is in the forces that hold atoms together and what gives us life.  bare with my horrible grammar as I am not sure how to phrase this sentence but god is the planets.  god is the universe.  in order to say god is this fatherly figure this person  you can sit down and have a chat with seems too confining for my taste.  for me god just is. how can you contain something like his word in a book, or his message in a building when just to talk to him according to some scriptures you would need a medetron to even be able to hear him.   Whether it's your religion, your god, my religion my god, their religion their god it is all about here is how the game is to be played.. you follow my path you go to heaven, you follow another path you go to hell.  if the catholics are the mafia in my example then maybe the Christians are the police holding you in an interrogation room smacking you with their bible until you submit, or the people like the opus dei handing you the whip and letting you do it to yourself it is all the same to me.  for me god can't be packaged or explained, god can't have answers made for what he does. The god that most people want you to believe in is just as dangerous as a tornado, as unpredictable as a wild animal an more elusive than rumor.  now if a church comes along telling me that god is an imaginary being that gives people hope because of things that other people say he is capable or that he is like the architect:  The man who builds the building but doesn't live their, nor care how the building is used... I might be more apt to join that church.    ::amen!:: ::amen!::

Tazgirl

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #24 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 12:24:03 »
How about this to wonder about as this has gotten me so down i was about to cry.
According to the bible...
We are "ALL gods children. We are ALL his lambs as he is our shepard.
 But when I wanted to get my daughter  christened (and yes I am a believer but somethings  make me question) 
I wanted my oldest sister(Since my older sister  was my first borns  god mother)  to be my youngest daughter's god mother but they refused one of gods children because she was divorced and  remarried  by justice of the peace. What is the difference if she is remarried or not?
She is catholic just like myself,  we all had the same sacrements, we all believe but because her ex husband was an asshole and  a cheater  and gotten a divorce, she couldnt  be god mother to my daughter.
 That day i cried as Since i was a young girl I just wanted her to be my daughters god mother.
Was my sister supposed to stay unhappy and miserable to be accepted?  Is it in gods plan to stay miserable and unhealthy?
So  my sister had to stay misterable in order to be my daughters god mother.   Well we are smarter, she may not be  her godmother in your eyes but she is her godmother in our eyes and she is one of the best I ever known.



Offline MeMyself

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #25 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 12:46:22 »
I often wonder if GOD supposedly has a plan for everyone and everything  why would god give is this great animal, a dog, which lives only 15 years and yet becomes so intertwined with our lives.  Seems kind of cruel if you think of it.  Imagine having a 5 year old child and giving them a puppy, then after a half hour taking the puppy away from them..  what was the point of that?  what does it teach them.  why would a supposedly benevolent god give us such a gift and then just snatch it away all the more quickly? 
your thoughts?

Why limit this question to dogs?  People die too, children, Charlotte from Charlotte's Web only lived *one* year.  ::cryingtears:: The world is full of heartbreak. 

God's word tells us there is a season for every purpose under Heaven, that His ways are not our ways, and IMO we can't think we are owed every answer to every one of the "whys" of life.  Sometimes the answer is "I don't know", but God does and we can trust Him...even when it hurts.

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #26 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:00:36 »
well I did used to work  near a casket factory when I was in a different job and I hated going in there because they always had the little kid coughins in there too..  but the difference between children and animals is original sin..  an animal, insect, fish or bird is beyond that.  if you say to me well children die...I don't like it but I accept it more than I would the death of a dog.  I don't want to see children die but according to original sin they are sinners from birth as we all are and only through Christ as it is said can one be free of sin.  but as far as I know my dog isn't capable of sin unless you want to tell me that animals can only be saved of sin through Christ.  rofl

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #27 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:25:04 »
well I did used to work  near a casket factory when I was in a different job and I hated going in there because they always had the little kid coughins in there too..  but the difference between children and animals is original sin..  an animal, insect, fish or bird is beyond that.  if you say to me well children die...I don't like it but I accept it more than I would the death of a dog.  I don't want to see children die but according to original sin they are sinners from birth as we all are and only through Christ as it is said can one be free of sin.  but as far as I know my dog isn't capable of sin unless you want to tell me that animals can only be saved of sin through Christ.  rofl

 ::juggle::

So animals should be allowed to live forever but humans deserve to die because of sin nature?

How would that work out?

No one would be around to open their cans of dog and cat food, sprinkle their fish food in the bowl, etc..

 ::frown::

 ::juggle::

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #28 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:32:35 »
I am starting to think that way listening to your view... but what I was trying to say with that is that you are comparing two issues that don't really relate.  people and animals are two separate things. I didn't say animals should never die.  I said at the beginning of this post in the case of dogs, that 15 years is a cruel life span.  everyone dies eventually.  but you can't lump animals and children together... even as children we, if not at first or ever depending on the case  rofl, have the ability to reason.  Animals only know instincts.  they are incorruptible.  as I said in a previous post if there is a heaven or hell animals go straight to heaven because they are the most innocent of us all. they never kill for sport, they never stray from their mates.  They never kill for possessions. as far as I know animals don't kill out of revenge.  I rather see 1000 adults die as apposed to even 5 animals.

Tazgirl

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #29 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:37:51 »
charlette is fictional

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #30 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:39:16 »
I am starting to think that way listening to your view...

Wait..what?  Listening to *my* view on what?  ::headscratch::

but what I was trying to say with that is that you are comparing two issues that don't really relate.  people and animals are two separate things.

Exactly, you are so twisted up over dogs dying and God being cruel because of that, but people dying, nah, no biggie.  

. I didn't say animals should never die.  I said at the beginning of this post in the case of dogs, that 15 years is a cruel life span.  

Why?  Why is 15 years a cruel life span?  Why stop there?  There are creatures that only live a matter of months for heavens sake.  If you're gonna judge God, just go all the way with it...

I rather see 1000 adults die as apposed to even 5 animals.

 ::eek::

Stranger and stranger still.  ::eatingpopcorn:


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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #31 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:40:17 »
charlette is fictional

 ::lookaround:: what?!  I thought that was a true story!  ::doh::  ::cryingtears::

 ::eatingpopcorn:

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #32 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:44:00 »
why are you so stuck on dogs. I mention dogs cause I have them.  would you feel more comfy if I mentioned the lizards I have had, or the numerous cats through out the years, maybe the parakeets I have had, or even the snake I have now?  why should any of them have to die so early if they are loved my original issue was why can't animals have a lifespan closer to us... if you take horses at least they are close as I believe they have a life span of about 50 years. (if mistaken please correct me.)

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #33 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:46:14 »
why are you so stuck on dogs. I mention dogs cause I have them.  would you feel more comfy if I mentioned the lizards I have had, or the numerous cats through out the years, maybe the parakeets I have had, or even the snake I have now?  why should any of them have to die so early if they are loved my original issue was why can't animals have a lifespan closer to us... if you take horses at least they are close as I believe they have a life span of about 50 years. (if mistaken please correct me.)

You are the one who brought dogs up...not me...

gillandro

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Re: How does everything fit into "GOD's Plan?"
« Reply #34 on: Sat Feb 04, 2012 - 13:49:29 »
true.   ::tippinghat:: ::nodding:: but that is because at this moment all I have at home is a dog.  so sue me for using an example that fits for me.  ::smile::

 

     
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