Author Topic: How To Get To Heaven When You Die  (Read 1383 times)

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Offline xfrodobagginsx

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How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« on: Tue Jul 26, 2022 - 21:57:17 »
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That’s because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won’t have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell.  He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4.  You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God.  If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

”Dear Lord Jesus I know that I  am a sinner and need you to save me.  I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins.  I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen.”

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven.  Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Offline yogi bear

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 03:55:00 »
Such a highly proclaimed false doctrine read your bile for the true Gospel of Christ

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 06:47:21 »
4.  You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God.  If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

”Dear Lord Jesus I know that I  am a sinner and need you to save me.  I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins.  I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen.”

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven.  Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

One more example of the false notion of Faith Alone.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 12:41:52 »
.
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and eventually attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

My siblings are Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my eldest brother entered the priesthood and made it to Friar before succumbing to cancer in 2018. My wife is a former Catholic, her dad was Catholic, his wives were Catholic, my aunt and uncle were Catholics, and my wife's cousins are Catholic; one of them is qualified to teach Catechism and was recently ordained a permanent Deacon.

I was loyal to Rome for the first 24 years of my life till one day in Feb 1968 I was approached at work by a Protestant minister who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.

Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns in catechism talked about Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first time in my whole life that I can remember somebody telling me. I was 24 and hadn't a clue what he was talking about.

My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called on the carpet for a face-to-face with Christ, it would not go well for me because I had a lot to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid so I became indignant and demanded to know why Jesus wanted to come back. That's when I found out for the very first time that it was in the plan for Christ to take over the world.

Then the man asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass away. I was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the worst.

Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"

Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the world; that much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a victim of unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus' trip to the cross was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when His son passed away, viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that Jesus took to the cross with him.

At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my mind as I fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of reach, rather, well within my grasp!

That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of conversation with that man, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion that many tedious years of Catholic masses and catechism classes had somehow failed to get across. Consequently, my confidence in the Roman Catholic Church was shattered like a bar of peanut brittle candy dropped to the sidewalk from the tippy top of the Chrysler building.

Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, along with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a really simple, naive prayer that went something like this:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but was no doubt the smartest sixteen words I'd ever spoken up to that time because seeing as how Jesus gave his life for the whole world, then God couldn't very well refuse my request; now could He.

Rom 5:6-8 . . Christ died for the impious. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

( A really eerie moment happened while I was saying my stupid little prayer. I got a vivid mental impression of someone there with us. I couldn't see anything or hear anything, or make out a face or a form. Whatever that impression was hung around for every last syllable of my prayer, and then it was gone. I'm not a big fan of paranormal activity but I'm telling you, something was there; and I hadn't been drinking, wasn't taking any medications, nor have I ever used drugs of any kind even once. )

As of today's date, Jul 27, 2022 I'm 78 years old; and an on-going student of the Bible since 1968 via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio Bible programs, and various authors of a number of Bible commentaries and special topics. Fifty-four years of Bible under my belt hasn't made me a seminary-quality expert but at least way ahead of when a Catholic.
_

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 12:41:52 »

Offline Alan

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 12:57:38 »
.
I was christened an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944, and eventually attended catechism to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

My siblings are Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my eldest brother entered the priesthood and made it to Friar before succumbing to cancer in 2018. My wife is a former Catholic, her dad was Catholic, his wives were Catholic, my aunt and uncle were Catholics, and my wife's cousins are Catholic; one of them is qualified to teach Catechism and was recently ordained a permanent Deacon.

I was loyal to Rome for the first 24 years of my life till one day in Feb 1968 I was approached at work by a Protestant minister who asked me if I was prepared for Christ's return.

Well; I must've been either asleep or absent the day that the nuns in catechism talked about Jesus coming back because that man's question was the very first time in my whole life that I can remember somebody telling me. I was 24 and hadn't a clue what he was talking about.

My initial reaction was alarm because I instinctively knew that were I called on the carpet for a face-to-face with Christ, it would not go well for me because I had a lot to answer for. Well; I don't like being made to feel afraid so I became indignant and demanded to know why Jesus wanted to come back. That's when I found out for the very first time that it was in the plan for Christ to take over the world.

Then the man asked me if I was going to Heaven. Well; of course I had no clue because Catholics honestly don't know what to expect when they pass away. I was crossing my fingers while in the back of my mind dreading the worst.

Then the man said; "Don't you know that Jesus died for your sins?"

Well; I had been taught in catechism that Jesus died for the sins of the world; that much I knew; but honestly believed all along that he had been a victim of unfortunate circumstances. It was a shock to discover that Jesus' trip to the cross was deliberate, and that his Father was thinking of me when His son passed away, viz: my sins were among the sins of the world that Jesus took to the cross with him.

At that very instant-- scarcely a nanosecond --something took over in my mind as I fully realized, to my great relief, that Heaven was no longer out of reach, rather, well within my grasp!

That was an amazing experience. In just the two or three minutes of conversation with that man, I obtained an understanding of Jesus' crucifixion that many tedious years of Catholic masses and catechism classes had somehow failed to get across. Consequently, my confidence in the Roman Catholic Church was shattered like a bar of peanut brittle candy dropped to the sidewalk from the tippy top of the Chrysler building.

Long story short; I eventually went with that man to his church and, along with him and a couple of elders, knelt at the rail down front and prayed a really simple, naive prayer that went something like this:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but was no doubt the smartest sixteen words I'd ever spoken up to that time because seeing as how Jesus gave his life for the whole world, then God couldn't very well refuse my request; now could He.

Rom 5:6-8 . . Christ died for the impious. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

( A really eerie moment happened while I was saying my stupid little prayer. I got a vivid mental impression of someone there with us. I couldn't see anything or hear anything, or make out a face or a form. Whatever that impression was hung around for every last syllable of my prayer, and then it was gone. I'm not a big fan of paranormal activity but I'm telling you, something was there; and I hadn't been drinking, wasn't taking any medications, nor have I ever used drugs of any kind even once. )

As of today's date, Jul 27, 2022 I'm 78 years old; and an on-going student of the Bible since 1968 via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio Bible programs, and various authors of a number of Bible commentaries and special topics. Fifty-four years of Bible under my belt hasn't made me a seminary-quality expert but at least way ahead of when a Catholic.
_



Very nice story, blessings NN.

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 12:57:38 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #5 on: Wed Jul 27, 2022 - 14:46:08 »
One more example of the false notion of Faith Alone.
The original Reformers had five solae:

  • Sola Scripture (by Scripture alone)
  • Sola Fide (by faith alone)
  • Sola Gratia (by grace alone)
  • Solo Christo (by Christ alone)
  • Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone)

If there are five of them, how can each of them be "alone?"

It seems there is something wrong with the thinking of those who would pit faith against grace. ::smile::

Jarrod



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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #6 on: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 03:58:05 »
The original Reformers had five solae:

  • Sola Scripture (by Scripture alone)
  • Sola Fide (by faith alone)
  • Sola Gratia (by grace alone)
  • Solo Christo (by Christ alone)
  • Soli Deo Gloria (glory to God alone)

If there are five of them, how can each of them be "alone?"

It seems there is something wrong with the thinking of those who would pit faith against grace. ::smile::

Jarrod

The truth is, redemption is by Christ alone....his obedience and faith secured the redemption of God's elect, who were given to Christ to redeem.
Quote from: Paul
Romans 3:22-25~"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;[/b]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
This free redemption purchase by Christ alone is by grace alone, the only redemption the scriptures give witness to, and it is to the glory of God alone!
Quote
1st Corinthians 1:29-31~"That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
Where the great Reformers had trouble was with the subject of faith~The RCC had a tremendous effect on their understanding, that they had to put man somewhere into the plan of salvation so they added man's faith to the equation so as not to leave man totally out~yet, faith is the system whereby we come unto the knowledge of this great salvation, and is "NOT" the means of acquiring the forgiveness of sins, that would be bringing works into the backdoor instead of the front door as the RCC did so boldly and proudly!
Quote from: NyawehNyoh on: Yesterday at 12:41:52
As of today's date, Jul 27, 2022 I'm 78 years old; and an on-going student of the Bible since 1968 via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio Bible programs, and various authors of a number of Bible commentaries and special topics. Fifty-four years of Bible under my belt hasn't made me a seminary-quality expert but at least way ahead of when a Catholic.
May the Lord continue blessing you with new revelations of his word, is our prayer. The Christian life is a life of many conversions to the truth as long as we continue seeking, searching his blessed word.
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 04:04:50 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #7 on: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 07:14:38 »
The truth is, redemption is by Christ alone....his obedience and faith secured the redemption of God's elect, who were given to Christ to redeem.
One more time: The Bible defines faith -- Heb 11:1  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Please, with scripture, show us in the life of Jesus Christ how that definition of faith could possibly apply to Him.

Offline dan p

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 15:07:03 »
He  is  not  pitting  Faith against  Grace , where  Eph 2:8  says  , For  by  Grace  you are  HAVING BEEN  SAVED though FAITH  and they are both  in the  same  sentence and  both have to  be used or  salvation  is  not  complete .

 dan p

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 15:07:03 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jul 28, 2022 - 15:46:07 »
One more time: The Bible defines faith -- Heb 11:1  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Please, with scripture, show us in the life of Jesus Christ how that definition of faith could possibly apply to Him.
That verse doesn't define faith.  It tells us the relationship between hope and faith.

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #10 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 06:43:05 »
That verse doesn't define faith.  It tells us the relationship between hope and faith.
Of course it defines faith.  It declares what faith is.  It doesn't explain how faith comes about as does verses such as Romans 10, but it clearly says what faith is in the Christian or the theological sense. Nor does it explain all the ramifications to the one who has faith; that is the subject of the rest of Hebrews 11; plus, it is well covered throughout much of the rest of the Bible.

My point to RB is, and has been on numerous occasions, to show that in the discussion in Hebrews 11 about what faith is and about what it produced in those specifically mentioned, if the faith that saves is the faith OF Jesus Christ rather than the faith IN Jesus Christ, then Hebrews 11 is obviously remiss in its presentation of faith. The faith OF Jesus Christ is not presented.  Further, I have maintained that faith as described in Hebrews 11 is not something that could even be applied to Jesus, the Son of God. I maintain that the faith OF Jesus Christ is an oxymoron, theologically.

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #11 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 09:11:38 »
RB

Sent you a PM about this subject . Did not want to post it and confuse replies any further.

No reply necessary... Just some thoughts

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 10:42:01 »
That verse doesn't define faith.  It tells us the relationship between hope and faith.
Of course it defines faith.  It declares what faith is.  It doesn't explain how faith comes about as does verses such as Romans 10, but it clearly says what faith is in the Christian or the theological sense. Nor does it explain all the ramifications to the one who has faith; that is the subject of the rest of Hebrews 11; plus, it is well covered throughout much of the rest of the Bible.
Ugh.  The version you quoted isn't even translated right.  I don't suppose there's any chance you could go look at that verse in Greek?

Faith is the ὑπόστασις (hypostasis) of things hoped for, the πραγμάτων (pragmaton) proving what is not seen.

This sets forth an above/below relationship.  The "faith" here in chapter 11 of Hebrews IS the actions of the forefathers in the world below, and the chapter relates it to their hope, which is in heaven above.

Jarrod

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 11:42:08 »
Sorry W_S, I see nothing wrong with the translation I used.

Hebrews 11:1

(ASV)  Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

(ESV)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

(KJV)  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

(NASB)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

(NIV)  Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

(NKJV)  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

(RV)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the proving of things not seen.


Therefore, I am not quite sure what you are getting at. I think your "above/below relationship" is a poor, if not completely wrong, analysis of the truth established in the verse. You have the πραγμάτων (pragmaton) [things, deed, matter, work, object] in the wrong place.

It is an "assurance/conviction relationship".  Faith in chapter 11 is not, as you say, the actions; rather faith is what leads to the actions.  In each case it is "By faith" that the various actions or deeds were accomplished.
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 11:46:23 by 4WD »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 12:31:25 »
Sorry W_S, I see nothing wrong with the translation I used.

Hebrews 11:1

(ASV)  Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

(ESV)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

(KJV)  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

(NASB)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

(NIV)  Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

(NKJV)  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

(RV)  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the proving of things not seen.
Those aren't Greek.  Looking at a bunch of English translations that borrow from each other doesn't do you much good.  FWIW, the KJV/NKJV at least got it right.

I think your "above/below relationship" is a poor, if not completely wrong, analysis of the truth established in the verse.
It's the crux of the meaning of hypostasis.

You have the πραγμάτων (pragmaton) [things, deed, matter, work, object] in the wrong place.
Word order in Greek isn't always word order in English.  I got it right.

It is an "assurance/conviction relationship".  Faith in chapter 11 is not, as you say, the actions; rather faith is what leads to the actions.
Literally the opposite of the point made in the actual chapter.

Jarrod

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #15 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 13:35:00 »
Sweet Heaven When I Die.

https://youtu.be/i_YPhAeDDMY

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #16 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 14:36:22 »
I won't belabor the point any further, but W_S, you are simply offbase on this one.  Looking through several commentaries, I couldn't find even one that was close to your interpretation.  Perhaps you could suggest one that presents your point of view.

As for hypostasis., Stongg's has

hupostasis

From a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support), that is, (figuratively) concretely essence, or abstractly assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident, person, substance.

Thayer has

hupostasis

1) a setting or placing under
1a) thing put under, substructure, foundation
2) that which has foundation, is firm
2a) that which has actual existence
2a1) a substance, real being
2b) the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing
2c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
2c1) confidence, firm trust, assurance


I find it a real stretch to get your interpretation out of that.  Hypostasis means below in the sense of a foundation, a basis, an assurance.

Nevertheless, believe what you will about Hebrews 11:1.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #17 on: Fri Jul 29, 2022 - 16:04:35 »
I won't belabor the point any further, but W_S, you are simply offbase on this one.  Looking through several commentaries, I couldn't find even one that was close to your interpretation.  Perhaps you could suggest one that presents your point of view.

As for hypostasis., Stongg's has

hupostasis

From a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support), that is, (figuratively) concretely essence, or abstractly assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident, person, substance.

Thayer has

hupostasis

1) a setting or placing under
1a) thing put under, substructure, foundation
2) that which has foundation, is firm
2a) that which has actual existence
2a1) a substance, real being
2b) the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing
2c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
2c1) confidence, firm trust, assurance


I find it a real stretch to get your interpretation out of that.  Hypostasis means below in the sense of a foundation, a basis, an assurance.
It's right there in the definitions you posted.  Did you scroll past the first six definitions in favor of the rarely-used seventh one that is dependent on context?  ::headscratch::

Hypostasis means "what is set below" and it usually puts that in contrast to "what is above" to make a pairing.  The verse here follows that pattern, setting it against "what is not seen."

Here are the 1st three verses of Hebrews:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person (hypostasis), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This isn't trivial at all; it is the basis for the Nicene Creed and our understanding of the relationship between the Father and Son.  That is, the Son is the hypostasis of the Father; still God but "set below" in the earth.  And it is part of the thesis of the book of Hebrews.

Jarrod

Offline RB

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jul 30, 2022 - 05:25:09 »
One more time: The Bible defines faith -- Heb 11:1  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Please, with scripture, show us in the life of Jesus Christ how that definition of faith could possibly apply to Him.
Brother, Jesus was a MAN, fully man, and in ALL points tempted as we are, yet without sin in thought, word, and deed. He did so BY FAITH in the word of God.
Quote
Romans 5:18,19~"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
Jesus was the surety of God's elect. In what manner was he so? By being made in the likeness of our sinful flesh~and being our representative before the law of God.
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Romans 8:3~"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"
Because of the weakness of OUR SINFUL flesh we received from Adam......the scriptures teaches clearly the law, or any commandments that gives life to those who keep them perfectly teaches that no flesh born of Adam could possibly keep~ so God sent his own Son in the likeness of our sinful flesh, and condemned sin in the flesh by the perfect life of His Son, who lived a perfect life of FAITH/OBEIDENCE/A LIFE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, by His life we have the right to enter into life since we were chosen members of his body, and what he did, it was as though WE DID THE RIGHTEOUSNESS by faith!

Btw, I do not disagree with your definition of faith, yet OUR FAITH is not the means of our regeneration, but purely the evidence of salvation from sin and condemnation.

Offline 4WD

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #19 on: Sat Jul 30, 2022 - 08:25:59 »
Brother, Jesus was a MAN, fully man, and in ALL points tempted as we are, yet without sin in thought, word, and deed. He did so BY FAITH in the word of God.
Give us some scripture that makes that statement, either directly or implicitly. The problem is that you can't do that. It isn't there.
Quote from: RB
Because of the weakness of OUR SINFUL flesh we received from Adam......the scriptures teaches clearly the law, or any commandments that gives life to those who keep them perfectly teaches that no flesh born of Adam could possibly keep~
The scriptures do not teach that no flesh born of Adam could possibly keep the commandments perfectly. Jesus, clearly was a descendent of Adam through Mary and he kept the commandments perfectly.  What the scriptures teach clearly is that no one has kept the commandments perfectly.  That is no fault of Adam, that is the fault of each individual.
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so God sent his own Son in the likeness of our sinful flesh, and condemned sin in the flesh by the perfect life of His Son....
I don't even know what that means or what you are trying to convey there.  God's condemning sin has nothing to do with Jesus' perfect life.  Jesus' perfect life was the means whereby God could condemn the sinner and yet forgive and sanctify the sinner who believes in Him.
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....[Jesus] who lived a perfect life of FAITH/OBEIDENCE/A LIFE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, by His life we have the right to enter into life since we were chosen members of his body, and what he did, it was as though WE DID THE RIGHTEOUSNESS by faith!
A perfect life of obedience, yes; but there is no such statement about Jesus living a perfect life of faith. And that notion of "as though we did the righteousness by faith" is simply not true.  God imputes His righteousness to the one who believes, i.e., has faith in Him, and is baptized.

It is not by His life that we have the right to enter into life; rather it is by His life that He is the perfect sacrifice and in His sacrificial death we have the means, the gift, of grace through our faith, through believing in Him, to enter into life.

Again, you quote Romans 5:18-19 without ever really understanding what is being said there. What those verses tell us is that what might have been through Adam's disobedience, i.e., original sin, was not; rather, what is through Jesus' obedience was original grace.  The result of Jesus' obedience was to set aside completely any result of Adam's disobedience upon mankind.  What happens after that is upon each and every person himself, not upon Adam.
Quote from: RB
Btw, I do not disagree with your definition of faith, yet OUR FAITH is not the means of our regeneration, but purely the evidence of salvation from sin and condemnation.
I agree that our faith is not the means of our regeneration.  It is, however, the condition upon which God bases His choice of whom He regenerates.  And knowing from before all creation who will have faith, that is, who will believe in Him, God has made His choice already. But still faith is the reason for the choice, not vice versa.

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Re: How To Get To Heaven When You Die
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jul 30, 2022 - 08:37:28 »
Just wanted to say I agree with you 4WD and give you a big thumbs up.  ::thumbup:: ::thumbup::
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 30, 2022 - 08:40:57 by yogi bear »