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Author Topic: Is Christianity the only way?  (Read 5074 times)
CDHealy
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« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2008, 12:10:53 PM »

Mind:

You point out precisely the reason why reason alone won't decide this for you.  While rational apologetics are helpful and useful, too many Christians fail to realize just the weaknesses you point out.
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Benedict Seraphim
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2008, 12:10:53 PM »

 
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Gypsy
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« Reply #91 on: October 16, 2008, 12:13:20 PM »

First off, "angels" don't strangle and threaten or use force in order to get a point across, as the Qu'ran claims Gabriel did with Mohammed. That alone reveals its source. We don't even need to get into the book itself to see that it's not of God.
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« Reply #91 on: October 16, 2008, 12:13:20 PM »

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MindOverMatter
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« Reply #92 on: October 16, 2008, 12:20:37 PM »

do you guys believe that wikipeida is a reliable source
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Gypsy
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« Reply #93 on: October 16, 2008, 12:24:10 PM »

I don't think so in it's entirety but I think some info is accurate.
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MindOverMatter
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« Reply #94 on: October 16, 2008, 12:27:40 PM »

how can some infor be right but not others
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soterion
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« Reply #95 on: October 16, 2008, 01:01:14 PM »

So you guys believe in a talking snake and noah living to like 500 years or sumthing but you dont believe that an angel could come and talk to Muhammed and he cant write the Qur'an by himself over a period of 23 years

The reason why we can believe in a talking snake and Noah living to like 500 years (closer to 600, actually) is because of the source of that information.  The Bible proves itself to be trustworthy.  Isn't this one of the main things you were looking for here?

Gypsy brought up another good proof of the Bible's reliability, and how we can know it is from God.  It's unity/agreement.

The Bible was written over a period of 1600 years by 40 different authors.  That alone is nothing to write home about.  But when we read it and find full agreement on all the different matters recorded therein, we have something incredible.

For example, almost all the different writers spoke of the coming Messiah.  Everywhere from Genesis 3:15 to Malachi 3:1 we find words about Him.  The amazing thing is that the New Testament records so much fulfilment of those writings in Jesus Christ, more than could have been planned, prepared, and provided by man. 

Only by divine intervention could the writers have written about Him and all fully agree with each other over the centuries.  Also, only by divine intervention could He come in the fulfilment of those words.
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« Reply #95 on: October 16, 2008, 01:01:14 PM »

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Tantor
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« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2008, 01:02:36 PM »

So you guys believe in a talking snake and noah living to like 500 years or sumthing but you dont believe that an angel could come and talk to Muhammed and he cant write the Qur'an by himself over a period of 23 years

The reason why we can believe in a talking snake and Noah living to like 500 years (closer to 600, actually) is because of the source of that information.  The Bible proves itself to be trustworthy.  Isn't this one of the main things you were looking for here?

Gypsy brought up another good proof of the Bible's reliability, and how we can know it is from God.  It's unity/agreement.

The Bible was written over a period of 1600 years by 40 different authors.  That alone is nothing to write home about.  But when we read it and find full agreement on all the different matters recorded therein, we have something incredible.

For example, almost all the different writers spoke of the coming Messiah.  Everywhere from Genesis 3:15 to Malachi 3:1 we find words about Him.  The amazing thing is that the New Testament records so much fulfilment of those writings in Jesus Christ, more than could have been planned, prepared, and provided by man. 

Only by divine intervention could the writers have written about Him and all fully agree with each other over the centuries.  Also, only by divine intervention could He come in the fulfilment of those words.

They don't fully agree... and there were plenty of centuries for scholars to edit things and bring things into harmony.
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soterion
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« Reply #97 on: October 16, 2008, 01:02:56 PM »

how can some infor be right but not others

Because Wikipedia is a product of fallible man.
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soterion
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« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2008, 01:06:55 PM »

So you guys believe in a talking snake and noah living to like 500 years or sumthing but you dont believe that an angel could come and talk to Muhammed and he cant write the Qur'an by himself over a period of 23 years

The reason why we can believe in a talking snake and Noah living to like 500 years (closer to 600, actually) is because of the source of that information.  The Bible proves itself to be trustworthy.  Isn't this one of the main things you were looking for here?

Gypsy brought up another good proof of the Bible's reliability, and how we can know it is from God.  It's unity/agreement.

The Bible was written over a period of 1600 years by 40 different authors.  That alone is nothing to write home about.  But when we read it and find full agreement on all the different matters recorded therein, we have something incredible.

For example, almost all the different writers spoke of the coming Messiah.  Everywhere from Genesis 3:15 to Malachi 3:1 we find words about Him.  The amazing thing is that the New Testament records so much fulfilment of those writings in Jesus Christ, more than could have been planned, prepared, and provided by man. 

Only by divine intervention could the writers have written about Him and all fully agree with each other over the centuries.  Also, only by divine intervention could He come in the fulfilment of those words.

They don't fully agree... and there were plenty of centuries for scholars to edit things and bring things into harmony.

Yes, the prophecies of Jesus do fully agree.  Your comment here seems to imply that Jesus is not really the Messiah in fulfilment of those prophecies. 

Do you not believe He is the Messiah?
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« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2008, 01:06:55 PM »

 
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Tantor
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« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2008, 01:17:53 PM »

Yes, he is the messiah, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the scriptures.
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« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2008, 01:17:53 PM »

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soterion
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« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2008, 01:34:40 PM »

Yes, he is the messiah, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the scriptures.

If there are any inconsistencies, and I still disagree, they were introduced by man in our translations from the original languages.

If you believe Jesus is the Messiah, then do you believe there are inconsistencies with the prophecies about Him? 

If so, what are they?  If so, how can you be sure Jesus really is the Messiah?  If He does not really fulfill all the prophecies (because there are inconsistencies), then He cannot be the Messiah, right?
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Tantor
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« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2008, 01:38:54 PM »

Yes, he is the messiah, but there are a lot of inconsistencies in the scriptures.

If there are any inconsistencies, and I still disagree, they were introduced by man in our translations from the original languages.

If you believe Jesus is the Messiah, then do you believe there are inconsistencies with the prophecies about Him? 

If so, what are they?  If so, how can you be sure Jesus really is the Messiah?  If He does not really fulfill all the prophecies (because there are inconsistencies), then He cannot be the Messiah, right?

I believe that men are basically too stupid to understand all the nuances of the prophesies surrounding him... heck, the Jews which were awaiting their Messiah for thousands of years didnt have a clue when he was living among them.

But the bible has been used as a 'wax nose' since it has been translated into the vernacular and people read into it whatever they want.

You also have to understand that God never intended all the scriptures to be compiled into the book we can the bible today.... otherwise he would have inspired someone to write a table of contents, instead of having the context determined by committee.
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soterion
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« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2008, 01:47:20 PM »


I believe that men are basically too stupid to understand all the nuances of the prophesies surrounding him... heck, the Jews which were awaiting their Messiah for thousands of years didnt have a clue when he was living among them.

But the bible has been used as a 'wax nose' since it has been translated into the vernacular and people read into it whatever they want.

You also have to understand that God never intended all the scriptures to be compiled into the book we can the bible today.... otherwise he would have inspired someone to write a table of contents, instead of having the context determined by committee.

Oh yeah, you're the guy that doesn't believe the Bible.  You pick and choose which Scriptures you want to believe and reject the rest.

That all makes this discussion with you pointless.
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« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2008, 01:47:20 PM »

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Tantor
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« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2008, 01:54:44 PM »


I believe that men are basically too stupid to understand all the nuances of the prophesies surrounding him... heck, the Jews which were awaiting their Messiah for thousands of years didnt have a clue when he was living among them.

But the bible has been used as a 'wax nose' since it has been translated into the vernacular and people read into it whatever they want.

You also have to understand that God never intended all the scriptures to be compiled into the book we can the bible today.... otherwise he would have inspired someone to write a table of contents, instead of having the context determined by committee.

Oh yeah, you're the guy that doesn't believe the Bible.  You pick and choose which Scriptures you want to believe and reject the rest.

That all makes this discussion with you pointless.

It's no different then what the people did when they dreamed up the canon... they randomly chose what they wanted in the scriptures back then... there is no difference.

The funny part now is how much of christendom adheres to their random choices as being the total of God's intent for the scriptures.

And I would say the same about you... discussions with you are pointless.. because you believe what you have been told to believe... absent the guidance of the Holy Spirit and common sense.

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MindOverMatter
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« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2008, 02:02:35 PM »

soterion hypethitcally speaking would you be a christian if it was proved that Jesus never died on the cross and resurrected to save our souls
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